My Pakistan Diary: Lahore Aaya Main Othay Dil Chhod Aaya!

Ballu richly deserved the snub from Dost Mittar...


Ballu`s History Writing (Read Distorting) 101

Now Ballu Khan is trying to project his own ideas onto Saadat Hassan Manto (a migrant from Bombay to Lahore in 1947)... who by the way is the author of `Mera Sahab`, one of the most well written tributes to M.A. Jinnah based on his driver Azad`s recollection.

My Sahib
Translation by Godot

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00001127&channel=leafyglade%20inn&start=0&end=9&page=1&chapter=1


Ballu is inherently incapable of appreciating the complexity of life. It shows his limited exposure. Saadat Hassan Manto`s brilliant piece `Toba Tek Singh` is a moving human piece... to try and enlist him in the jingoistic Indian nationalist I-hate-Pakistan campaign is just novel... brilliant. To people like Ballu everything is about TNT ... even Saadat Hassan Manto who was largely apolitical.

What? next Faiz? the first editor of Pakistan times from Jan 1947 .... are you going to enlist him too because he mourned like all reasonable men and women the tragic loss of life on both sides ? Because I have in my personal library a number of Faiz`s letters (including one addressed to Jinnah) and editorials about Pakistan and the Pakistan idea from 1947... that prove that he was a patriot of Pakistan, through and through. Ofcourse the only reason Ballu would wanna project his ideas onto Faiz is because he is well established as a figure of the liberal left... otherwise to Ballu he too would be a `TNT Islamist`.... just like Mian Iftikharuddin, who despite his liberal secular socialist credentials will be held to be a bigoted muslim fanatic because he is associated with the Pakistan Movement... this is Ballu`s History writing 101.


Shame on you Ballu... to try and distort history to prove your own points. Now go running to Alephnull to save you... or else resort to personal insults that is your old style.


-YLH

PS: I know I am a TNT Islamist elitist fanatic trying to oppress the poor people of Pakistan and the entire subcontinent.... thankyou very much.

Punjabis are an aggregation of Jats, Rajputs, Gujjars,Ghakkars, Kashmiris, Pathans and Baloch. So the assumption that they are fuedal and inward looking is not correct. In fact no other definition than Punjabi absorbs so many varied groups as I have indicated.

They are also the most flexible and adapt quickly. Fuedal are a minute propotion.

YLH alias Manto-impersonator



YLH, Stop your obfuscations and ascribing falsities to me. Elsewhere I have prescribed Gadamer as the basis of multi-culturalism and my views on human solidarity are much nearer to Richard Rorty ( read his ``Contingency, Irony and Solidarity``) and that is where I have affinity to all the good things contained in various philosophies and horizons. You are uncouth and un-civilized to get into a reasonable intellectual discussion. You are not properly educated which I can very well see from your grasp of various issues on various other issues and topics on Chowk. You have no idea about culture or literature - you cannot tell a $hit of difference between Khayal and Dhrupad music- not to talk about various art forms and sub-cultures of Indian sub-continent. You are pi$$ing all over the board just because I have pulverized your reading of the frking TNT as a stupid minority movement. So now you are trying to get on a personal level accusing me of subscribing to RSS Hindutva and what not. This is clear from the lies you ascribe to me:

``Another contradiction was your suggestion to Dost Mitter about going to NWFP and finding out about the real Pakistan ``

I ask you to apologise for this lie you are spreading about me.

Dost-mittar #84: ``It is too soon to pronounce the death of Montreal.``

You have lived a ot longer in Canada than I, so I will have to accept your views on these issues. I don`t think Montreal is dead, though. I do think it will never be, what it once was. And I cannot see it growing much. I go there once every month, on average, and keep seeing the same single construction crane in the same area, every time. At one point, it was ranked the best city in the world by the UN, and it used to be the main business center of Canada. No longer.

However, my point was that despite of its decline, people will always want to visit Montreal, as tourists, before they visit Toronto. Primarily because Montreal has culture and a sense of belonging. While GTA is just a booming very well organized metropolis.

``And Toronto isn’t exactly the ‘rising new giant’ of Canada.``

This one I will have to disagree with. Toronto is in a different league, in terms of size and quantity and growth, in Canada. As far as cities go, it is a rising giant of the world, not just Canada. It is the sixth biggest city in North America. Growing at an immense pace, due to immigration. It is probably the number one choice of immigrants in the world. I believe it adds around 100k - 150k (?) immigrants a year. So, it will pass most other North American cities in size, within some time. The amount of housing and office construction, I have seen in Toronto, I have not seen anywhere else in North America.

Mississauga, a suburb of Toronto, by itself, is now the sixth biggest city in Canada. And will soon, in a year or four, pass Ottowa. U of T is the sixth biggest university in North America. Toronto is the most multi-cultural city in North America. And Toronto is the safest big city in North America (or world???), according to UN. And along with Ottowa, the 18th best city in the world to live. Montreal has moved from 1 to 25. Vancouver is usually 1 or 2 in the world.

The only other city in Canada that seems to be booming, in a similar fashion, is Calgary. But, it will never get the number of immigrants that Toronto gets. So it can never be even close to, as large.

``…why stop at Attock. The whole area upto Peshawar and beyond``

I stopped at Attock because I cannot really remember what happens after that. It has been too long, and my adventures were limited in the Nowshera to Pindi area. I suppose one could keep going onto Lahore and Kabul. But that small patch between Pindi and Attock (actually between Taxila and Attock) is really highly concentrated.

I have always wondered, if the Govt. handed over Hasan Abdal (or Hassuun Abdal, as the locals call it - a`s are pronounced as u`s in that area) to the international Sikh community and Taxila to the international Bhuddhist organizations, whether these two communities would be willing to invest a lot of money in the area to revamp it, as a tourist spot. Much like the international community is trying to look after the Blind Dolphins in the Indus region........

Banjaara#75
Thanks for the welcome!

``The Jehad Funds are collected in the mosque on a Friday, and Dost-mittar being an aethist does not yet offer his namaz inspite of my strenous efforts, hence, he never witnessed any of these activities, but it is a fact and no one can deny it.``

Believe it or not, I did once attend the Id prayers at Delhi`s Jama Masjid while working on a project on the festivals of Delhi.

``I will not defend this action nor condemn it, just like the donation of millions of brick by ordinary Hindus in India and abroad to the VHP for Kaar Seva in Ayodhya after the demolition of Babri Masjid-Ram Janam Bhumi is a work of faith, I have no right to condemn or deny. ``

...now don`t blame me if some bricks come flying your way for making this comparison.:)

NHK#79
``A small servant boy, who lives in Lahore, when goes to his village, looks at a tree with tears in his eyes and says ``That was my father`s tree``. ``

Yesterday, I met a woman, originaly from Dera Ismail Khan and told her about my visit to my ancestral village. She asked me if I had brought any ``mitti`` (earth) from my village and was surprised that I didn`t. She had visited her old town last year and brought a bagful of earth (Indians sneaking more Pakistani territory:)) back from her town. Apparently, there is some small colony of refugees from Dera Ismail Khan somewhere in Delhi and she gave a small piece of that ``sacred mitti`` to the colony, who have placed it in a decorated object at the local temple where visitors to the temple bow before this object.
The sangh parivaar exploits this attachment to land of the hindus in a very clever way. They say that anyone who does not consider India to be his/her holy land cannot be loyal to his country. This is of course to single out muslims whose holy places lie elsewhere. This reverence/worship to earth is, of course, not restricted to the Hindus, there are muslims who also use the mitti of Makkah to do sajda while doing their namaz.

veeresh#81
...and after you have taken him to meet your relatives, you may take him a couple of miles from your house to Greater Kailash where my cousin has been insane ever since she lost her only son in action; and to my sister-in-law`s house in your own colony, whose husband was posted in Kashmir for three years and whenever there was some report of the death of a senior officer, we had to call her home to make sure that it was not him; it is too late to take him to meet my late brother-in-law, a junior police officer posted in Ladakh who suffered a permanent ailment as a result of his service in that unfamiliar, cold climate.
Unfortunately, some people think that patriotism means praising those who pour oil and set fire to innocent people because they are of the wrong religion.

Ballukhan (various posts!}
I am speaking up like a Panjabi. You may see somethings you like, the others you may not.

Dost-mittar:

Speak from your heart like a true punjabi- forget this urdu-shurdu or hindi-pindi culture- shout the way our original Manto would have spoken on this artificial divide created by those TNT rascals..........speak out dost...speak out!

re:#72 by hamidm2
I have an uncle who, to this day, claims Madras is the best city in the world! He has never stepped out of Madras but that is immaterial for him. When i once confronted him with the fact that he has not travelled, his answer was typical of him: there is no need to travel as Madras had everything in the world!
Most of you Pakis sound like my uncle when u say Lahore is the best. Most Americans have not heard of this city but most would have heard of Delhi. A city is made by its people and not by its landscape. What do you have in Lahore other than Punjabees?
Sridhar

re:#78 by ballukhan
I can tell u from my personal expereince that Indian Punjabees after partition embraced the concept of nationhood above their narrow linguistic concerns, much like the other groups like Tamils, Bengalis etc. To me, it seems the newer generation of Punjabees have heard stories (mostly good; nobody likes to tell a bad story) from their parents and are today exploring their roots. NOthing wrong in that. Only, they need to remember that they are Indian Punjabees, very different from the Paki Punjabees. Pak Punjabees are feudal in their outlook. Indian Punjabees have been intermarrying and settling down in various parts of India. I personally know 3 rd generation Sikhs who send their children to Don Bosco school in Madras. My own cousin (a Tamilian doctor in Delhi) is married to a Punjabi.
How do Pak Punjabees compare? Are they not more feudal? Do they not have that smug superiority (to which my Pak friend from Karachi often referred to) complex which prevented them from interacting closely with other ethnic communities in Pak? Perhaps honest Punjabees in chowk can answer these questions.
Sridhar

I myself luv Lahore but when i read the same views of Dost-mittar i really start believing the phrase ``jinne lore nehain takehya ho jamiya nehain``.It has really got the vibrant culture which attracts the people from abroad.
Though there are some similarities of culture of Lahore n Dehli but of course dehli can`t be like lahore as lahore always give the warm welcome to the people of all religion on every festive n also on their religious festives like ``besakhi`` n they always feel safe n secure here that`s what like the secular state should be!!
Whereas dehli never arranged such events which allows the people of multi culture to mingle up like here in lahore on festives like ``Basant``.

All this talk about the greatest and most cosmopolitan city on earth leaves out the truest contender: LONDON

There is just one city that can compete with London and that is New York. In terms of ethnicities London has the edge, because of its proximity to Europe, Africa and Asia it is the most multi-cultural city in the world in terms of languages spoken, religions observed, ethicities represented, cuisine cooked. There is a large Latin American community which has their own soccer league. Desis are the most visible ethnic minority in London, then there are the Jamaicans, Africans, Jews, Arabs, every nation of Europe (London is the fourth or fifth largest Danish city because of the number of ex-patriots that live there), Australians, Yanks, Canucks, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese....the list is endless. There is not a single race or nation or ethnicity or religion that is not represented in significant numbers in London.

So take your New Yorks and Lahores and Delhi and play with them because they all pale beside Londinium.

:-)

Ref Romair #58

[Yes, you are correct. Wah is, perhaps, the most well-organized city in Punjab..... if one does count it is a mid to large-sized city, then its literacy rate would be the highest in the province, by far. What I remember of it was more of a very large-sized Army contonments. And all Army cantonments have nearly 100% literacy.]

Wow! Here is the solution to ALL of Pakistan`s problems! The instant I read the Field Marshal`s post, it hit me like a ton of bricks!

Conscript EVERYBODY in Pakistan into the Pak Army! The Army will be obliged to run schools for all its employees` children. There will be no ghost schools and no teacher absenteeism for fear of court martials! In short order, Pakistan will achieve 100% literacy rates!

In addition, the folks will be educated in the Army`s way of thinking. Automatically, the population will vote to institutionalize Army`s role in politics. Heck, if the entire country is the Pak Army, 100% of the National Assembly would be with the Army! There will not even be a need to amend the constitution to institutionalize the Army`s role in politics!

Man oh man, Pakistan`s only living Field Marshal is a genius. I take back anything negative I have said in the past about him!

;-)

Ref Romair #61

I am guessing here but I think the Lucknowis probably sneer at both Lahore and Delhi when it comes to Urdu and Islamic culture.

Ref sadna #62

[Good to know you enjoyed your visit to Lahore.....

It would have been great if it had been like a trip to say, Switzerland, something purely personal.....]

Yo, when the restaurant on top of Mount Jungfraujoch (the highest mountain in Switzerland) is a curry restaurant named ``Bollywood`` and you have more Hindi and Tamil films` song-and-dance sequences shot around the Interlochen area, you REALLY don`t want a visit to Switzerland getting any more personal! ;-)

Dear Ballu Khan...

No need to once belittle yourself to get down to personal attacks. Why must you always stink up every board like this? It is a really bad habit.

I have already prescribed some essential reading from Salman Rushdie`s `Imaginary Homelands` on the `Blasphemy` board . Remember you were dropping Rushdie`s name... right?

In any event I am not a defender of TNT nor its opponent... like all Nationalisms it was an `imagined concept`... only a fool will spend so much time trying to deconstruct an imagined concept the reality of which is entirely dependant on the one imagining it... in that sense no nationalism has any real validity over another... if some Jews think they are one nation then they are one nation as far as they are concerned... if some Sindhis think they are one nation, for those sindhis Sindhi nationalism is the truth. .... even Nehru said something very similar in a speech to the Indian Assembly towards the end of his career... where he granted that nationalism can be true if one imagines it to be true. Like I pointed out on the other board it is hard for someone like you who whines on and on about religio-cultural solidarity (whatever meaning you attach to that) and then exhorts Hindu Philosophy as the basis for a multicultural society ... going so far as to say that the absence of it will never result in one. This is exactly the kind of contradictory BS we have come to expect from the NWFP Mullahs.


Another contradiction was your suggestion to Dost Mitter about going to NWFP and finding out about the real Pakistan ... that province whose relationship with the center has always been uncomfortable at best and openly hostile at times, the Province of Ghaffar Khan Wali Khan and his progeny... the province of Mufti Mahmood and his progeny Mullah Diesel? ... the Islamists that you point to to belittle Pakistan were in actual fact always allied with your ilk. The reactionary Mullahs of deoband ... and its sister movement in Pakistan were always Congress Allies.


As the old saying goes .... little knowledge is dangerous. You are the perfect embodiment of it... especially how you resort to petty insults and labels


-YLH

Ally#74

Spoken like a true lhauri!

“Back to Punjab, although my nankey are die hard Lhauris having lived there for three coming now four generations, my dadkey are from Llylepur (Faisalabad) this is deep inside Punjab, and the rural is a lot more noticeable in the urban settings. The population is more than ISB/Rawalpindi, but still the mentality can be very rural, even tho LYP is a relatively old city.”

I did visit Faislabad, the city in which I grew up as a child. Though I was there for only a few hours, I did visit my old street in Nanak Pura (they have a new official name but everyone still calls it by the old name). The old road connecting Nanakpura with my nanake in Santpura has been closed as the land was expropriated for the expansion of the Agricultural University. I also visited the famous landmark of Lyalpur, Ghanta Ghar, perhaps the most unique intersection in Pakistan where 8 streets converge at the same chowk. There does not seem to be much change in the old narrow lanes despite a big increase in traffic. It seems that the beautification schemes of Shahbaz Sharief did not include Faislabad. I also visited the Lyalpur railway station from where I boarded a train to Amritsar 56 years ago; nothing has changed at the station, except the name of the station.

dullabhatti#66

“I though Canadian/Americans etc if they have Pak visa can just walk to the Wagha gate, show their visa, go through check up and take a taxi on the other side and keep going. Do you still have Indian citizenship?”

You are right. But due to a previous bad experience with the Pakistani officials, I did not want to take a chance, though we did walk through the border on our return journey. Moreover, I had read so much about this bus that I thought it was worth exploring. And I don’t regret doing it. Moreover, it is a real bargain!

“When I go there I would like to travel by the public transport on my own and also travel around away from Lahore into the inner Punjab.”

I was not alone on this trip; if I were, I would have definitely spent at least one night in the gurudwara at Lahore or Peshawar :) (as it is my wife was quite upset with me for putting her up at a Dak Bungalow at Moen jo daro!).

But I did take public transportation from Panja Saheb (Hasan Abdal) to Peshawar, and the experience was quite different, partly because of the public transport and partly, also, I think, because we were in a different area. I am narrating it here to provide a balance to what I have been accused of doing – describing of the rich and the fortunate:

The bus was full of Pashto-speaking passengers. When we got into the bus, men and women were sitting on separate seats, but as a couple we were allowed to sit together. All women in the bus were wearing the burqa. I took the window seat and my wife the aisle seat; the conductor asked me to move to aisle seat and let my wife take the window seat, presumably because he wanted to protect her from the accidental touch of a male passenger walking up or down the aisle. Across the aisle from us was a mother in burqa with a girl child of 7 years or so. The girl had a small scarf around her neck. The conductor came and scolded her for not covering her head and the poor child immediately turned the scarf into a hijab around her head. (he didn`t ask my wife to cover her head, though!)

Yes, Pakistan is not a homogeneous country, any more than India is!