A Sign of Things To Come?

#125 by AlephNull

Thanks AlephNull !

I will definately buy them.

Thanks.

Vereesh #72: Your knowledge of Pakistan is quite limited. Please understand that. Otherwise, it will make you look like a fool, trying to explain to people, who are from that part of the world, the rules and regulations of their own land. It is like me trying to explain Delhi to you.

I am hoping that this is all due to misinformation that has been fed into the system. And as more and more cricket matches take place, more and more Indians will be, ``overwhelmed.`` And hopefully someday, the international press will be allowed into Kashmir, and we will get a better idea of what is going on there.

Or you will finally agree to ask the Kashmiris what they think, rather than debating it amongst yourselves. I would say, ``ourselves,`` however, I am a Kashmiri, hence I do have a right to give an opinion, as one whose land is under conflict. If tomorrow Delhi gets occupied, I have no right to speak for its people. You do.

Now to some specific comments:

``Please take a careful look at the visa application form for India. It does not ask you your religion.....Even then, these requirements are easier at the India``

This is not what we were debating. If you want to convince me that Pakistan`s passport procedures are screwed up. Please don`t try. You are preaching to the choir. I will be the first to agree that they are screwed up. And maybe (I don`t know) it is easier for Pakistanis to get into India, than vice-versa. And maybe they will be treated better also. Fine. I have no issue with this. You are right. But I never maden these claims. I am talking about HR organziations specifically in Kashmir.

``The entry and freedom of accredited journalists into India and Pakistan is also on a bilateral basis.``

Fine. Agreed. But I never made this claim. We were debating something else.

`` I can not understand where William Baker is coming from, though I do know that conversion is a touchy subject. And I am glad to note that Pakistan is now accepting what Al Gore says as gospel, he has had a lot to say is all I shall say!!``

Did you read his book, or listen to his interview? Are the pictures he took fictitious?

He is coming from where everyone else is coming from. Don`t shoot the messenger. He isn`t the only one who has stated this. I will quote from furthur sources. Every journalist states this. The only news from Kashmir are from Indian news sources. Everyone else must comment from a distance. However, if you do not agree, can you point me to any intereviews, documentaries, news reports, etc. from itnernational sources that show what the Kashmiri population is going through. That interview the families of the individuals killed, etc.

Don`t you think if GEO TV could get into Kashmir, it wouldn`t do so?

``I would strongly suggest you tell me a simple fact - how easy is it for a Pakistani from Karachi to go walkabout? In India, on the other hand, most anybody can go walkabout in Jammu & Kashmir.

And that includes women, people of all religions, communities . . . the works.``

Pakistan`s Kashmir is open to anyone and everyone. You cannot even tell where Kashmir starts and Punjab finishes. Pakistan`s Kashmir is easily, the most peaceful part of Pakistan. While Indian Kashmir is easily its most violent part (I am talking about the Kashmir Valley here. Not Ladakh adn Jammu). Ever hear of any rapes, killings, etc. in Pakistan`s Kashmir? Other than some new religious violence in northern areas, there is nothing. It is a nunnery in comparison to the rest of Pakistan. And heaven compared to Indian Kashmir. Can you name one Pakistani Kashmiri, of any race, ethnicity or religion, or political persuasion who has been shot by govt. forces in Pakistan`s govt.?

People from Karachi, Lahore and anywhere else can and do walk straight into it. The govt. goes out of its way to get international HR and press sources into it. In fact, the whole economy of Kashmir functions through non-Kashmiris.

Once again, how about we let the Kashmiris decide who is right and who is wrong.......Why are you so scared of that? If you are convinced you are correct, than you should be encouraging it.....Like I am.....

HP #123

{{There has not been a single study done on both sides of the border, about the people, mostly women folk that were left behind, kidnapped, or made to switch religion to save their lives.}}

Check out Borders & Boundaries: Women in India’s Partition by Ritu Menon and Kamla Bhasin; and The Other Side of Silence: Voices from India’s Partition by Urvashi Butalia.

I’ve flipped through the first book, haven’t seen the second, so I can’t provide recommendations in either direction. Just pointing out that they exist.

HP 123 - I assure you that I am not into scoring brownie points. I do not know whether the wounds of partition inculcate anything more than a desire to find out and then try to prevent a repeat in those truly affected. The problem arises with those not affected who try to ``use`` the situation?

Dost Mittar 122 - I have enough reason to believe that more people survived the 1947 massacres on both sides and quietly changed religions. I also think that 2 or 3 generations later there will be a desire to atleast acknolwedge roots, especially with those able to afford it economically. This is one of the biggest truths that the media on both sides have kept from the rest of us, I think.

#115 by veeresh

Veeresh Sahib!

I would not invest too much capital in “steel kadas”. There are several reasons to wear the Kada. One of them may be what you are referring too. Just to let you know that one of my friend’s Grand Mother was a Sikh and I am talking about the current Pakistan where Sikhs are pretty much non existence. This family did not live in Punjab but they were Baluch of Punjabi ancestry. They still live in Sindh.

Bad things happened on the both sides of the Punjab divide in 1947. There has not been a single study done on both sides of the border, about the people, mostly women folk that were left behind, kidnapped, or made to switch religion to save their lives.
Instead of using this human tragedy for scoring brownie points, I would recommend that you may think of something that can be done to heel the wounds of the partition.

The partition cannot be undone now. Pakistan is a reality. Nevertheless, I think some well-meaning people from both sides of Punjab should attempt to help people that were hurt in 1947. I am sure if you think along those lines you will also find some in Pakistani Punjab who would be willing to stick their neck out for this cause.

veeresh:
Interesting post on conversions in shekhupura. During a visit to Nankana Saheb which is in the Shekhupura district, I was told by the granthi that there are about 50-60 sikh families still living in Nankana Saheb. I wanted to ask him if they had remained sikh all along but decided not to: a sarkari mulazim of the gurudwara -a muslim- was accompanying us (no he wasn`t spying, merely hoping to get a nice tip!) and I somehow thought it was impolite to start that type of conversation in his presence.

optimum bhai -- most of what you said way over me, you repeat the same kind of generalizations that veeresh sahib did tho not as passionately and eloquently as him -- dont bother tho --
whippinzed -- yaar as far as i know images is distributed with the main paper -- there is no editor of images in dawn -- which should tell you, if you know how newspaper hierachies work -- because it is part of dawn -- dawn has no separate sunday paper -- you had said that the article came in some feature publication -- it clearly different -- if an article comes in the metro section or the entertainment section of the indian express, it is referred to as having appeared in the indian express (tho in indian papers, entertainment news now seems to come on the main news pages) -- get a grip (whatever it is supposed to mean in this particular context) ? whippinzed jee

jay -- the stories that you quote are all reuters and afp and they usually mention the word `militant` -- dawn does has only one correspondent in india, and he too is a journalist who lives and works in india -- jawed naqvi, whose brother ali naqvi comes on star news as an anchor (or used to) -- all the stories from kashmir are international newswires, unless they come from washington in which case our correspondent there might file them -- jay killings and bomb blasts will not leave the front page of ANY newspaper -- quite unlikely -- the only time they will if they stop -- and are you telling me that if, say, there is a racially motivated attack against an Brit Asian (of Indian descent) or worse still a bombing of an asylum shelter holding Indian refugees, the newspapers in India won`t carry such things -- besides, not everyone thinks that by reporting such events on the front page is the notion of jihad being reinforced -- most of you guys obviously don`t read english newspapers in too much detail -- actually here is one article from dawn`s sunday magazine -- this guy has recently come under heavy criticism for his textbook reform views -- this is his second article for dawn in four weeks -- read for yourself jay, veeresh sahib, and anyone else interested --

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Twisted truth


By A.H. Nayyar

Certain politicians and their like-minded cohorts in the media have indulged in a litany of lies to force the government on the back foot over the issue of curriculum reforms.

Over the years, many people have worried about the state of education in Pakistan and have sought to bring about some kind of reform. The need for reform has been emphasised in countless speeches by political leaders, in government reports, parliamentary debates, some books, scholarly essays and research, newspaper articles and editorials. But in all these years, it is hard to recall if there has ever been anything like what has happened in the past few months.

During these months, the content of our education system has been passionately debated as right-wing politicians and the right-wing press denounced and reviled a recent report by a group of scholars, teachers and educationists about the many problems with the national curriculum and text-books used in our public schools. They have also attacked the government, accusing it of having made changes to the textbooks under American pressure.

At the heart of the controversy is a report entitled The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Text-books in Pakistan - Urdu, English, Social Studies and Civics. It is available in full from the Sustainable Policy Development Institute (SDPI), in Islamabad, and on the web at www.sdpi.org.

The report grew out of a study started in June 2002, when the SDPI brought together 30 experts on Pakistan`s education system from around the country to assess the problems with the national curriculum and textbooks and to propose reforms. The goal of the study was to understand how the education system was helping foster a culture of sectarianism, intolerance and violence.

Leaders and governments have long recognized the enormous power of the education system in shaping the ideas and interests of a whole generation, and thus the future of a nation. In November, 1947, at a conference on education, Mr Jinnah had argued, ``The importance of education and the right type of education cannot be over-emphasized ... There is no doubt that the future of our state will and must depend on the type of education we give to our children and the way in which we bring them up as the future citizens of Pakistan.``

In our country, no government understood this more clearly than the military regime of General Ziaul Haq. It engaged in a wide-ranging and sustained effort to reconstruct our national identity through changing the national curriculum and the textbooks. In a 1984 essay for a book edited by Air Marshal (retd) Asghar Khan, Pervez Hoodbhoy and I showed how school history books were being rewritten to foster a conservative and militant Islamic identity. We warned that as the children growing up in the 1980s became adults, their newly received ideas would have profound consequences for our society and our politics.

Many others - Dr K.K. Aziz, Dr Mubarak Ali, Dr Rubina Saigol, Dr Syed Jaffar Ahmed and Dr Tariq Rahman to name but a few - did more detailed scholarly studies. The conclusions were inescapable: the education system was distorting our society and our understanding of our selves. We can now see the consequences all around us.

Let me now turn to the SDPI report, which was an attempt to see where our education system was twenty years after General Zia`s efforts, and to take up General Pervez Musharraf`s promise of supporting reforms that would find, in his words, ``solutions to the problem of sectarianism and extremism``.

To these ends, the study group collected and reviewed the official curriculum documents, that had been revised and published in March, 2002, and the officially approved textbooks in Pakistan Studies, Social Studies, Urdu, English and Civics covering the range of classes from 1 to 12.

The questions asked were: what is the religious content of textbook material in subjects other than Islamic studies? What kind of hate material is in the textbooks and how prevalent is it? What, if any, are the distortions, by commission and omission, in the narration of our history? Which values and personalities are projected? To what extent is militancy inculcated in students? What gender biases exist in the learning material? And, lastly, what role does the curriculum, prepared by the Federal Ministry of Education, play in determining the content and character of the books published by the provincial textbook boards?

We went through the books, line by line, section after section, chapter after chapter. We hoped that our answers would give way to an informed national debate about what our children were actually being taught.

Let me explain some of what we found, and then the storm we met. Take first the case of teaching religion. We found that Islamic teachings are a systematic part of the textbooks in Urdu, English and Social Studies that are compulsory for students of all faiths. For example, the report shows that on an average about one-fourth of the lessons in Urdu textbooks published by the Punjab and the Federal textbook boards have religious content.

The report also looked at the example of the integrated primary level course, which is taught to all children. Since it is integrated, Islamiat is a part of it. This is a clear violation of the fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Article 22(1) of the Constitution of Pakistan says: ``No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instruction, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own``. Or are we to infer that the education system works on the basis that only Muslim citizens of Pakistan send their children to school?

The report brings out example after example of statements from textbooks on Social Studies as well as Urdu which clearly seek to create prejudice and hate against Hindus and India. One textbook says, ``The religion of the Hindus did not teach them good things``; another teaches the child that the ``Hindu has always been an enemy of Islam``; yet another says, ``the Hindus lived in small and dark houses``; and, as a final example, consider the story used in an Urdu textbook that has a Hindu character explain that ``Hindus please the goddess Kali by slaughtering people of other religions at her feet`.

How is the child of a Hindu citizen of Pakistan to read this? Would anyone blame it if he grows up feeling alienated from Pakistani society? Is this not subverting the society from within?

On issue after issue, we found more than what we had feared. There were the instructions to textbook writers to emphasize jihad and shahadat; the obvious lies about history, even that which was within living memory; the sustained focus on wars and military heroes rather than peace and development and the countless people who have struggled for human compassion, peace and justice; and the deeply disturbing representation of women. The report documents all of this.

The report came to the conclusion that the curricula and the instructions contained in them, and the Curriculum Wing of the Federal Ministry of Education were the most fundamental source of the problem. It is the Curriculum Wing that has the final authority to vet the books prepared by provincial textbook boards. This conclusion was borne out from a couple of more recent examples that have come to light.

In December 2003, the Curriculum Wing rejected a proposed English language textbook for Classes IX and X from the Sindh Textbook Board. The Curriculum Wing raised two ``serious`` objections. One objection centred on a lesson containing a letter by the Quaid-i-Azam`s daughter Dina to her father; it was considered unacceptable because she was not a Muslim. The second problem was about a lesson that talked of a family where both husband and wife worked and in which the husband was shown to share household chores with his wife.

A second, even more recent example shows just how little has really changed since General Musharraf`s regime came to power. In February, 2004, the Curriculum Wing expressed its disapproval of a class IV textbook on Social Studies because the book did not contain enough material on jihad.The SDPI report has received extensive comments in the press both in the country and outside. It attracted a great deal of support for its proposals for urgent and sweeping reforms. It also met with hostile criticism from right-wing and ultra-nationalist groups, and their like-minded commentators in certain sections of the media. Like on all such previous occasions, the government, despite being a military regime in all but name, made a hasty retreat, and has failed again to take any kind of principled position or action in favour of its much proclaimed reform agenda.

Among the Urdu press, a Lahore-based national daily has launched the most sustained and virulent campaign against the report. It is determined to present itself as the upholder of the national interest, which it sees embodied in a sanctified political slogan of the `Ideology of Pakistan`, and to denounce all who may think otherwise.

The following are just a few examples from the newspaper where it has falsely attributed arguments and conclusions to the report, and planted false news. Since the report is published, it should not be hard to determine what it says, and what it does not say. Only the most determined and wilful misreading could lead to these and other such claims made in the media.

On April 5, an editorial said: ``The writers of the SDPI report have proved their mental bankruptcy by raising several objections to the thoughts and philosophy of Iqbal.``

A day later, on April 6, a news report said: ``The SDPI report had recommended removing the words Rehmatullah Alaih from the names of Muslim conquerors for being painful to Hindus.

On April 7, a write-up by Dr Hussain Ahmed Paracha said: ``From the beginning to the end, the SDPI report writers have targeted Islamic history, Islamic system of punishments, Islamic laws, the Thinker of Pakistan and the Founder of Pakistan.``

The report, to be sure, contains nothing of what has been insinuated above.

This same newspaper also published a completely false story of the Education Minister Zubaida Jalal calling up the SDPI for help, and meeting a couple of people in the Parliament House cafeteria. The purpose of this report was ostensibly to strengthen the claim the newspaper has been making that the Minister for Education was being advised by the SDPI.

The facts are very different. Earlier this year, as the SDPI report began to attract public support for its proposals for urgent and sweeping reforms in the education system, the Ministry of Education created a committee to review the report. The ministry chose to give the responsibility for hosting the review committee to the Curriculum Wing, despite the fact that the SDPI report had recommended that the Curriculum Wing be abolished.

In March, the Minister for Education informed the National Assembly that following the review, her ministry had rejected the analysis and recommendations of the report. The National Assembly was not informed that the 15-person review committee had, in fact, endorsed the SDPI report by a vote of 9 to 6, and supported its most significant proposals for reforming the national curricula, textbooks and the ministry itself. Whatever side the minister is on, it is not that of the report and its reform proposals.

Another part of the campaign has been to attack the SDPI for being an NGO and to suggest that it must have an agenda defined by its supposed foreign funders. The same tactic is used against the government. Consider for example the following newspaper claim, purportedly citing a statement by US National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice.

Columnist Irfan Siddiqui has quoted Rice as saying: ``Educational reform in Muslim countries is the top-most priority of the US government ... Reforms are being introduced in Muslim countries, curricula are being changed. Pakistan`s education minister is a wonder woman. I had met her in Washington last year and exchanged views on Pakistan`s educational curriculum``.

Condoleeza Rice`s deposition is available in its entirety on the internet. Search it for the word `curriculum`; it is simply not there. Search it for the word `education`, and there is only one paragraph, which is:

``... (O)ne of the things that we`ve been very interested, for instance, in is issues of educational reform in some of these countries. As you know, the madrassas are a big difficulty. I`ve met, myself personally, two or three times with the Pakistani - a wonderful woman who`s the Pakistani education minister. We can`t do it for them. They have to do it for themselves. But we have to stand for those values. And over the long run, we will change - I believe we will change the nature of the Middle East, particularly if there are examples that this can work in the Middle East.``

It is clear that Rice`s statement refers to Madrassas and says nothing about the curriculum of the public education system. What is more disturbing is that it is not just a columnist misinforming his readers. Much of the Urdu press, including major columnists like Hamid Mir and Ataul Haq Qasmi, also now carry the misquote. None of them ever bothered to check Rice`s speech. For many readers, a lie has now become the truth.

When some newspapers are willing to use their power to mislead public opinion and to incite religious and national passions in this way, it is hard to understand how we can have a serious, thoughtful and informed debate about the fundamental character and content of our education system.

To Mr. Jinnah`s point that ``the importance of education and the right type of education cannot be overemphasised``, we must add that there is equally no doubt about the need for a free press and the press that takes seriously its responsibility to inform and educate its readers. Without this, there can be no democratic debate, and, without such debates, democracy cannot be made to work.

An article on the same issue by the same writer -- for a special report for Dawn -- April 3, 2004 -- I think interactors should judge for themselves how anti-India the English media in Pakistan is .....

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The fight to revamp our textbooks


By A.H. Nayyar

Strange things are happening on the educational scene in Pakistan. The minister for education was recently grilled in the national assembly by members of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) for dropping Quranic verses with reference to jihad in a biology textbook. The minister replied that the surah in question had been replaced by another which, she said, also referred to jihad. She did not explain, nor did anyone ask, what place jihad has in a biology textbook.

The MMA legislators were actually angry at the report by the Islamabad-based Sustainable Policy Development Institute called The Subtle Subversion. The report contained a detailed analysis of recent textbooks and curriculum used in government schools to show how the education system was contributing to creating a culture of sectarianism, religious intolerance, and violence.

The minister went on the defensive by saying in her reply that the government had rejected the SDPI report. Her reason was that the committee she had set up to look into the report had rejected it as representing an extremist view. Was this true? Was the minister misinforming the parliament or was she misled into believing that this had happened?

For the record, the committee that had debated the report for one full week, eight hours a day, and submitted its report on March 13 to the head of the curriculum wing, who acted as the host of the meeting. Nowhere does it appear in the signed report (available to the writer) that the committee or a majority of its members had rejected the SDPI report. Instead, the committee agreed that there was a need for curriculum and textbook reform, of restructuring and strengthening the curriculum wing of the ministry of education and the provincial textbook boards, and of a national education commission to oversea the working of these government departments.

Contrary to what the minister told the National Assembly, the report of the committee is clearly an endorsement of the SDPI report. It is true that the committee report was not unanimous. It was not expected to be unanimous in a committee that contained many people from the curriculum wing and the textbook boards, the very institutions that our report had found to be part of the problem. There was a minority opinion appended to the committee report in the form of `View II` signed by only six of the 15 members of the committee raising unsubstantiated objections to the report. Under what logic is a minority view the view of the entire committee?

The story however is not simply that of the minister misinforming the assembly or maybe the educational bureaucracy misleading the minister. It is one of small battles in a much larger struggle. There is a broader set of issues at stake here. We are in the middle of a contest in our country about the role and character of our education system, and what kind of values we want to teach our children and what kind of society we want to be.

Governments everywhere use education to further the process of nation building. Through the teaching of history, language and social sciences, children are given what the state believes should be part of their shared identity and a perspective for understanding the world. From independence onwards, there was a question in Pakistan about how to teach our history and our national identity. But two decades ago, Gen Ziaul Haq embarked on a grand project of social engineering. He set out to Islamize society. With the Jamaat-i-Islami as partner, his government openly started to transform the education system into a tool for indoctrination in a particular kind of violent and intolerant Islam.

The Jamaat introduced as the cardinal principle of education the philosophy of its leader Syed Abul Aala Maududi, who believed that in an Islamic society all that is taught should be in the context of religious knowledge. Every subject became Islamiat. This has not changed. Even the most recent curriculum documents contain as a guiding principle, the requirement that ``no concept of separation between the worldly and the religious be given in the teaching material; rather all the material be presented from the Islamic point of view.``

Following the prescription, the subjects of social studies, Pakistan studies and languages were drastically modified to lay a greater emphasis on defining Pakistan as an Islamic state to be governed by orthodox religious laws and practices (to be determined, of course, by the clergy and religious parties). This needed re-articulating history, which could not be done without distorting it.

A new genre of textbook historians came into being. Their specialty was manufacturing history laced with hate material. Since the actual history as researched, narrated and compiled by serious professional historians would not satisfy their need, they created a new history of Pakistan that started with the arrival of Muslims in the subcontinent.

The ancient history of the region, the glories of Moenjodaro and Harappa, the Hindu kingdoms, the advent of Buddhism, the incursion of Greeks and Bactrians, and so much more that has made our part one of the oldest and most diverse and wonderful civilizations over thousands of years were all eliminated. We lost our past.

What we got instead is evident in the following sample of the `new history` from a textbook: ``As a matter of fact, Pakistan came to be established for the first time when the Arabs under Muhammad bin Qasim occupied Sindh and Multan in the early years of the eighth century, and established Muslim rule in this part of the South-Asian Sub-continent. Pakistan under the Arabs comprised the Lower Indus Valley. During the 12th century the Ghaznavids lost Afghanistan, and their rule came to be confined to Pakistan. By the 13th century, Pakistan had spread to include the whole of Northern India and Bengal. Under the Khiljis Pakistan moved further southward to include a greater part of Central India and the Deccan. During the 16th century, `Hindustan` disappeared and was completely absorbed in `Pakistan```. From A Textbook of Pakistan Studies by M. D. Zafar.

It is not just old history that was thrown out. Recent history also suffered. The purpose of the creation of Pakistan was unambiguously declared to be the establishment of a religious state. The history of independence was reworked to fit this idea. Even the religious leaders who had bitterly opposed the politics of the Muslim League and Mr Jinnah were painted as the real heroes of the struggle for Pakistan. Children were, and are, taught that Pakistan is the land of Muslims and India is the land of Hindus. They were made to believe there could only be difference and conflict and hate between them. Lessons emphasizing militancy and jihad were, and still are, included in the learning material.

Even our memories were no longer to be trusted. For example, in describing the tragedy of East Pakistan, textbooks laid the blame on the general elections of 1970 and on the Hindus living in East Pakistan. What are parents to tell their children when the textbooks tell lies about what so many of us remember with such painful clarity?

The term `ideology of Pakistan` became the rallying point, and was sanctified to the extent that even the most recent curriculum document insist that `The Ideology of Pakistan be presented as an accepted reality, and be never subjected to discussion or dispute`. A political idea has become like an article of religious faith. No other political term enjoys such status in the learning material.

In keeping with Syed Maududi`s cardinal principle, lessons on Islamiat were introduced in all the disciplines, notably in social studies and in languages. Lessons emphasizing militancy and jihad became an essential ingredient of the learning material.

It was of course necessary to guard these changes brought into the educational system. The gatekeepers are the educational bureaucracy. To appreciate this point, it is important to understand that the state exercises complete control over the learning material used in public schools and colleges. The mechanism for this control is the curriculum wing of the federal ministry of education. It designs and prescribes the curriculum for the entire country. The provincial textbook boards prepare and print textbooks for their respective provinces. The curriculum wing has the final authority in vetting the books prepared by the textbook boards.

Many of the key people in the curriculum wing have been there since Zia`s days. They have survived, even flourished, during subsequent governments, regardless of who was the education minister, or prime minster or president. They seem accountable to no one. Even when President Musharraf has called for enlightened moderation, their ways have remained unchanged, as a few examples below indicate.

Very recently, a group of teachers wrote a class IX-X English language textbook for Sindh. The curriculum wing vetted the book in December 2003, and raised objections against a few lessons, asking them to be taken out. One was based on Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah`s letter to his daughter Dina. The objection was that Dina should not be mentioned because she was not a Muslim (now please note that Jinnah`s daughter recently visited Pakistan to watch the last one-day cricket match between India and Pakistan and that the president personally flew from Islamabad to Lahore to meet her at the stadium).

Another lesson that was marked for deletion described a family in which both husband and wife held jobs and hence the husband was shown to be sharing household chores. More recently, two months ago in February, the curriculum wing returned a book to its authors for not including enough material on jihad.

It is clear that the new wave of enlightened moderation has not touched the educational system. The ideologues of yesteryears are deeply entrenched in the system.

Scholars, educationists, teachers and concerned citizens need to confront the dangerous ideas that have been force-fed to our children for twenty years in our schools. The full impact of what happened under General Zia is now being felt, in the rising religious militancy, sectarianism and violence in our society and our politics. Another generation of young Pakistanis is now going through the same education. There is still time for a change, but time is running out. Soon the children of Gen. Zia ul Haq will become teachers in their own right. What shall we expect them to teach future generations?

The writer teaches physics at Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad, and is a visiting research fellow at the Sustainable Development Policy Institute. He is one of the compilers of the SDPI report The Subtle Subversion: The state of curricula and textbooks in Pakistan, 2003.

by the way optimum, since you mentioned, both shireen mazari and mushahid hussain are not exactly all that liked by many journalists in pakistan --

Romair 116, other than the price of newsprint and other costs, let us not compare the Pakistani media with Indian media? Please?

OK, so stand alone Pakistani English media is ``secular``, whatever that is? Fine. And vernacular media in Pakistan is non-secular, whatever that is? Fine too.

Now, I have over the last few months taken the trouble to meet up with a few fundoo Urdu media types from Pakistan. The real way-out sort who come in convinced that Hindus are kidnapping and marrying Muslim girls because the Indian government gives us lots of money to do so, OK? But hey, even these guys are human and can see reason, especially after meeting up with random people at Jamia/Delhi or AMU/Aligarh or Hamdard/Delhi. Walk about any of these campuses, if you have the time, or ask your brother to do so, please?

Well, surprise surprise, if honesty is defined as living one`s own truths and still being open to debate and a willingness to credit the adversary with intelligence, then I take your Urdu media anyday. Atleast them I can safwguard their trips towards going around India without having to form opinions for Pakistani readerships basis Press Club and society boozeups as well as walkabout in equivalents of Blue Area like our friend Omar here.

My main problem with the English language media in Pakistan is that they have been lying to their own people for far too long. IMHO, they are currently bending and lying down flat on their backs when a simple nod would do.

Right?

Omar Sahib, I am learning continuously.

I would accept observations about Amritsar from you if you went there.

I think you should accept observations about the parts of Pakistan I saw?

Yes, you are correct on one thing - Pakistan being the land of my forefathers does give me a birthright to come and take a look and form my own opinions. The country is yours, Sir, but this world is ours. And I thank ptimum for crystallising matters point by point.

Optimum, Sir or Madam, my argument about Omar using reportage on Urmila Matondkar`s trip as yet another round of shoddy reportage by an expensive for vested reasons kind of Pakistani media on real matters pertaining to India and Pakistan stands. If, however, Pakistan media still wishes to portray India as being represented by Bollywood actresses, then so be it. I know for a fact that I am not portraying Pakistan as a fundoo country in my observations.

On the variety of economic parameters going towards pricing of newspapers, believe me, I have done my research. All I say is that a smoke costs about 50 paise to a rupee in pakistan and newspaper costs 20-30 times that. There is something very wrong with this equation. And there is something even worse if all of us have to accept Pakistani media as the pillar on which opinion in Pakistan stands, if they justify these costs.

That`s it, over and out. Good luck, Omar, and if you come to Delhi next time, ask for me c/o Dargah, ask your publication bosses what that means please before doubting my sources, OK?

vereesh/omar: I think the Pakistani press is not divided along pro-govt. or anti-govt. lines. It is divided along secular and religious lines. The English press is nearly all secular. While the Urdu press is religious. The English press caters to the upper class and the expats. They are the only ones who can read English. Nearly all of whom are Westernized and relatively secular. Hence Ayaz Amir can confidently tell stories about his drinking, in English, without a backlash. I doubt he would do that in Urdu.

The Urdu press caters to middle and lower middle urban class. Most of whom are non-secular, and religious.

Dawn, News, Friday Times, Herald, Newsline etc. are all very secular, by Pakistani standards. Or even by interanational standards. Their editorials, journalists, articles etc. are nearly always nearly always pro-secularism. They are extremely anti-MMA. I would say Ayaz Amir is about as mildly secular as any in the English press. Everyone else from Cowasjee to Najam Sethi to Kamran Shafi et al, are completey secular.

The Urdu press from Nawa-e-Waqt to Jang to Takbeer etc. is religious, or at least non-secular. Even though Jang and News are published by the same company.

This is what decides their pro and anti-govt stance. The English press will support govts. that are secular - be they democratic or otherwise. While the Urdu press will oppose them, and will support religious ones. When Mushharraf took over, and uttered the words ``Ata-turk,`` the English press fell in love with him. He was their hero, as well as the hero of many secularists on Chowk. They completely forgot that he had just violated the Constitution. Once they realized he was only a very mild version of Ata-turk, they slowly turned against him. And all of a sudden, the Constitution started appearing in their arguments.

The Urdu press would have loved Musharraf, had he been Zia and Islamic. They hated him from day one, because they feared he would be an Ata-turk. Now they hate him, because he is pro-USA.

Even now, Musharraf is more popular with the Englilsh press than the Urdu press. Sethi, Cowasjee and even Ayaz Amir etc. give him credit for a lot of things. And do generally like him. Perhaps because they are afraid, that if he goes, the maulvis may step in.

So, the press isn`t pro or anti-govt. It is pro or anti secularism and Islamic govts.

The Pakistani press, today, is freer than at anytime, at least in my lifetime. The print media is completely free. As free as the Indian press, on domestic affairs. In fact more free, at the moment, after seeing what happened with Tehelka.com. And it is quite a bit more objective on Indo-Pak relations, than the Indian press. Primarily because, Pakistanis are quite a bit more exposed to India, than vice-versa. However, after the recent cricket series, I think the Indian press has come around now, and may have tilted too much in giving Pakistan credit.

On the critical issue of Kashmir, both press(es) are biased. Hence I follow neither, and rely on international sources. However, the Pakistani press is quite a bit more informed. The Indian press (and people, for that matter) are as misinformed about Kashmir, as they were about Pakistan, before they visited for cricket.......

PunjabiZulu 110 . . . this is how it goes-if you search google, you will come across accounts of great bravery by Sikhs & Hindus prior to their being massacred at Sheikhupura. From what I have subsequently researched, the Sheikhupura partition riots were amongst the worst on the sub-Contitent, and went largely unreported. There is enough material about the riots on the Internet. There is more from elderly people.

I would presume there will not be enough material on conversions or subsequent ``stay behinds``, because that is how it is/was. I do know, however, that when faced with life and death situations, men run for their own lives and women protect their children. After realisation dawns, both protect property in addition.

Now to the facts that you have asked for - there has been some amount of genetic material research done at Sheikhupura that I am aware of, but beyond aspersions on the results, I have nothing to go on. There is a 1-billion dollar super-speciality hospital well in the pipeline for Sheikhupura, with funding from private sources in India and abroad, largely Sikh. There has been purchase of agricultural land in and around Sheikhupura by people of Indian origin from abroad. There is no dearth of Randhawas, Cheemas, Sidhus, Sandhus, Gills, Rekhis and others, though they may not use their surnames publicly . . . and not just Bhattis who returned from points beyond. The last Chief Secretary of Pakistan Punjab was a Randhawa. The term ``Jat Sikh Muslim`` is not uncommon at Sheikhupura. Marital relationships within this community are still quite strict. By one estimate given to me by a ``Jat Sikh Muslim`` Police Officer who hails from there, approximately 60% of the current population of Sheikhupura is of Sikh ancestry not more than 2 generations old. The concept of a ``Babe da Kamra`` with the kada kept there is widespread, I have seen two out of the two houses I visited.

There are two account of separate visits to Sheikhupura during the cricket visas . . . given to me by a Sikh and a Hindu. In addition to that, there are Sikhs who went on the Jatha visas who have given me accounts too. The figure 60% may be an exaggeration, but one thing is for sure - there are more than a few Muslim people in Pakistan wearing steel kadas on their right hands. I have never seen Muslims in India wearing kadas, then again I may never have looked carefully.

I am trying to find out more on the subject. My brief visit to Sheikhupura, even though I have no known relatives there, was very emotional for those who took me there at risk to their own careers and positions in society. I therefore need to guard my words here.

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veeresh sahib -- i suppose people like yourself will never learn -- as for writing for dawn good for you -- but am i supposed to be impressed by that somehow?

no veeresh sahib -- the publisher`s price is rs 150 -- next time you come to pakistan (gasp) please read the small print on the cover -- i checked it today, it says quite unambiguously rs 150 -- Pakistan -- actually i do get that you refuse to see the other side of the argument, that you are judgmental and are intent on basing things about pakistan sitting in delhi, as if it being the land of your forefathers somehow gives you a birthright to do that (going by your argument, my parents are from amritsar so i should now proceed to expound a treatise on the treatment of east punjab within india -- i don`t think i will) like i said i have no time for this -- yes, if you have questions please write to dawn directly -- there, at least, the exchange won`t be as long and drawn out, and excruciating as the one here --
hp -- you said it yourself -- the nawai waqt is pro nawaz sharif and pro-kashmir -- despite that it still has amina jilani as a columnist -- go figure -- also hp -- while you`re at it -- why dont you share with all of us what you do for a living? -- so that we can then proceed to judge you too --