A Sign of Things To Come?

A heart-warming story - from today`s daily times:

OP-ED: The Hindu teacher, the Muslim pupil —Ishtiaq Ahmed

We constituted three generations of educationists living outside the city of our birth, Lahore, in different parts of the world either by choice or by compulsion, and now I had to carry on the tradition of my seniors of service to humanity to the best of my abilities

For those who studied political science and public administration at the Punjab University in Lahore during the 1950s and until the early 1970s, Professor Emeritus Shaukat Ali is a familiar name and a highly respected educationist. Many senior Pakistani civil servants and public figures have been his students.

I was never his student, but knew him through Professor Riffat Hasan (a renowned Islamist feminist) and her brothers who lived very close to our house on Temple Road. Professor Ali was a daily visitor to their home and later married their sister, Professor Parveen Hasan. They have together a very talented son, Dr Saleem Ali, who is a leading expert on environmental issues. He is currently involved in a movement which aims at building a peace park in Kashmir — something that will transform that region from a conflict-prone part of South Asia to a zone of peace, cooperation and friendship.

Professor Ali and his family have been settled in the USA for a long time now. I had the privilege of enjoying their hospitality when my family and I visited the USA in 2002. At that time his eyesight was fast failing but I was pleased to know that he had read some of my earlier work. On July 29th, 2002 I recorded a formal interview with him on pre-partition Lahore. This is what he said:

“I was born in 1923 in a very poor Muslim family in the slums of Bhati Gate. We lived in a predominantly Hindu locality of Mohalla Darotian, Kucha Nakarchian inside the walled city. We were five brothers and sisters with no earning member of the family except my widowed mother who used to perform various domestic chores such as stitching and needlework for others. Of the 250 or more families living in that locality only five were Muslim. Our Hindu neighbours were very gracious and God-fearing. Almost all of them kept a cow at home. Knowing that my mother was a poor but hardworking woman they would give us milk, butter and curd free of charge. At the time of Hindu festivals such as Holi and Diwali we would receive sweets from them. I don’t remember a single instance when they made us feel unwelcome in their homes. The only restriction was the kitchen which the women kept only for themselves and Muslims were not allowed there. This was part of their religious practice and had nothing to do with discrimination as such. The Hindu women would come and spend hours talking to my mother.

“I studied at the Dayal Singh High School. Most of my friends at school were Hindus. There was no discrimination at school, our teachers were fair and kind and very helpful. The school was located in Said Mittha Bazar and I had to walk that distance on foot from Bhati Gate. It was my great desire to become an academic, but my circumstances were most discouraging. However, my mother took on more work and my maternal uncle who lived in Said Mittha Bazar also helped me financially to get admitted to Dayal Singh College where I did well and gradually gained admission to the BA honours class.

“Two of my Hindu teachers took special interest in me and inspired me to work hard. One was Professor Prem Kirpal who had studied at Cambridge University. His father, Rai Bahadur Ishwar Das, was the registrar of Punjab University. They lived on Race Course Road. Professor Kirpal would invite some of us home for extra coaching. The other boys came from well-to-do backgrounds. I was the only one who was humbly-dressed in shalwar-kurta and a Turkish fez on my head. We were treated to coffee and western delicacies, things I had never tasted before. The same was true of Professor Lajpat Rai Nayyar. I used to go to his house too which was located near Miani Sahib off Mozang Chungi. He also treated me very kindly.”

At that stage, Professor Shaukat Ali started crying. He told me that he was still haunted by the smell of burning flesh and skin and screams of the victims of the 1947 riots. Lahore was never the same again.

While in Delhi during March this year, I narrated Professor Ali’s story to some senior refugees from Lahore. To my great surprise, I was told by Yuvraj Krishan Sahib that Professor Kirpal (he will be 95 on 30 April!) was alive and lived only about 300 meters away from the India International Centre where I was staying. Yuvraj Sahib himself had been a student of Professor Kirpal in Lahore and had kept the contact. He told me that until very recently Professor Kirpal was in fine shape and his memory was clear and sharp, but then it declined rapidly and his overall health was now rapidly deteriorating.

On March 14th, I visited 63 F Sujan Park and rang the bell of Professor Kirpal’s flat. The servants had been informed about my visit. I waited for a few minutes before he was brought into the visitors’ room by some helpers. Both his eyesight and hearing ability were seriously impaired and his memory had indeed all but gone. I tried to tell him about myself and his pupil Shaukat Ali but it seemed he did not comprehend anything. Only once he opened his eyes wide open and caught a glimpse of me and smiled the kindest smile in the world. I learnt he never married. It was pleasing to note that he had excellent helping hands at his disposal, however.

My greatest regret was that although after more than 56 years Professor Ali would be delighted to know that his old teacher and benefactor was still alive, because of his poor eyesight he may not be able to see the picture I had taken for him of Professor Kirpal. I felt destiny had chosen my eyes to see them on each other’s behalf. It was a deeply moving experience.

We constituted three generations of educationists living outside the city of our birth, Lahore, in different parts of the world either by choice or by compulsion, and now I had to carry on the tradition of my seniors of service to humanity to the best of my abilities. A mission had been given me!

The author is an associate professor of Political Science at Stockholm University. He is the author of two books. His email address is Ishtiaq.Ahmed@statsvet.su.se

#54 by veeresh on May 1, 2004 10:14pm PT

I share your concern regarding the state of affairs between India and Pakistan. This is not the way neighboring states are supposed to be. Your points a, b and c were pretty much conveying the same message, but unfortunately, the facts on the ground do not support them. India has always denied access to international observers in Indian occupied Kashmir. India rejected Pakistan’s proposal for appointing international peacekeepers on the line of control as well, and yet your government keeps whining about infiltration. India even refused to issue visas to Amnesty International in the immediate aftermath of the Gujraat massacre.

Your calculations about Indian Muslims are interesting to say the least. Do you seriously think any of the victims of the Gujraat massacre (and other incidents of ethnic cleansing against Indian Muslims) will buy that? According to latest report of Amnesty International (months later, when they did get visas), the victims of Gujraat have still been denied justice by Indian system of justice. And if you are so confident that Indian Muslims in general and Kashmiri people in particular are happy with India, why don’t you ask your government to let Kashmiri people show their love for India to the whole world through a plebiscite under International supervision? That would bury the problem for good.

The holier than thou approach will not get us anywhere, so let’s be honest about it. I admit that we have serious internal problems in Pakistan, which need to be addressed. But your assertions regarding human rights record of India are far from reality. I don’t buy your logic that since newspapers in India are less expensive India has every right to continue its illegal occupation of Kashmir. I never claimed that Kashmir should be a part of Pakistan. But I would expect any open-minded person to agree that Kashmiri population should be given a chance to determine their future.

#29 by jay on April 30, 2004 7:34am PT
``some trees being identified as non-Islamic, from Islamabad to Karachi they are being replaced by date palms, the Islamic trees``

Did you also read reports that Pakistan is investing in genetics research so that every child born in Pakistan comes pre-packaged with an Islamic beard? Not to forget that communists used to eat babies, and pigs fly (preferably on Air India).

Veeresh, 55:

Re The West Wing episode: it’s not funny, it’s very sad, really. And it’s the failure of the recognition of that sadness among Indians and Pakistanis is what I find incomprehensible.


Tauheed, 40:

I have not only seen that movie (Sean Connery, Michael Caine), which I liked a lot, it was because of that movie I went trekking in Peshawar, Chitral and, yes, especially Bamburat (aka “Kafiristan”), the place the movie is about. I have some good slides from that journey. When I’ve converted them in a digital format, I’ll share them with you guys at Chowk.

Romair 58:- while I thank you for your slightly economical with the truth kind of review on Main Hoon Na, I would like you to please try to address the questions I`ve raised? Omar Quraishi has given up on trying to justify the cost of newspapers in Pakistan. Now would you please try to justify your stated views on Indian Kashmir?

Thank you . . . interim, maybe you should have seen Dil Se, Khakee, Hey Ram and a host of other movies including ``Hero, the Spy`` currently showing on buses between Lahore and Pindi, where the subject of terrorists seems to have been addressed with a fairly even hand too.

Just by the way, Romair, when was the last time you used a bus in Pakistan, if you don`t mind my asking? (Omar is going to use one this summer, we are told . . .)

#47: ``Can you name a few movies made in India......that highlight the grieviances of Kashmiris, much less show them being killed?``

I take back this part of my comments.

Just saw an Indian movie that finally broke away from the mold. Is this a new trend in Indian cinema? I certainly hope so. The movie started with the same old nonsense about Pakistan this and Pakistan that. My wife and I, both of us regular Indian movies-in-the-cinema watcher, looked at each other, and sighed, as if to say, ``Not another one.`` It has gotten to the point where we now start laughing at such anti-Pakistan dialogues so prominent in Indian movies.

However, all of a sudden, the theme drifted in a different direction. This time, it was an Indian terrorist that was being openly blamed for everything; and, to top it off, one who was shown as a retired Indian Army officer. And that too, showing shooting innocent Pakistanis in the head. And then raising his own Army to stall the peace process. And for the first time, I saw someone in an Indian movie actually blaming the Indian forces, along with freedom-fighters/terrorists for the problems, there.

If someone had told me I would ever see this kind of a movie, in the next five years, after watching so many that were anti-Pakistan, I would not have believed him/her. But to see one so quickly is quite amazing. Assuming that Indian movies (specially those with top stars) show what the Indian public wants to see, one has to say, perhaps there is hope......

Main Hoon Na by Sridevi Productions, starring Shahrukh......

kashmir and pak time machine,

In pakistan the most iconoclastic writer is Cowasjee, a man must be hitting the seventies. He is the only person in pakistan who has seen a pakistan of yester years, uncorrupted by the k for kafir education. He is the one against honour killings while the romair and tahmeds dish out excuses, it is only the consequence of tribalism and illiteracy. It is cowasjee who wrote about the legislative frame work that legalises killings.
A consequence of pak education is that their view of kashmir is based on what it was in pre 1947 periods. For the indians, india was devided based on religion and it finishes at 1947. For the pakistanis, the children of TNT, kashmir is the unfinished job, for them it being a muslim majority area it should have joined pakistan. Unlike say Hyderabad, or the malappuram of kerala, kashmir has a border with pakistan and hence pak can infiltrste jihadis. Hence the kashmir problem.
Why should there be human rights violations in kashmir while it is not in malappuram. Well the muslims of kashmir are being supported by pak jihadists. It is comical to see romair quoting indian military to say that infiltration has reduced by 90 percenbt following cease fire, but denies that the kashmeir issue is a pak creation.

There are good signs in indo pak relations, the present and the last high commissioners to pakistan are keralits, not the types of dost mitter who can find some cultural links with pakistan.

All dealings with pakistan regarding kahmir should come through a realistic interpretation of the reasons for kargill invasion in response to lahore peace initiative. It should explain the sancuary of osama in pakistan, the lasker lelements in australia and thje proliferation of jihadists from all corners of the world. Only a fool would fail to see kashmir in the context of the global jihad and Dr khans role in it.

does 1 has to be abusive in the use of language to be heard on chowk.....just wondering...:P:P

godot/tahme32 . . . very funny, yes we saw the same shows and movies. But tell me one thing, many of you base Pakistani inputs on basis Pakistani media . . . and if you ask me, the one big truth to me on my visit to Pakistan has been that Pakistani media is one big part of the establishment just as much of Indian media was during the Emergency days (when, bytheway, newspaaper had gone up in price to 5/- and magazines were costlier too . . .)

AhmedBilal 42:-

a) The Indian Government does not restrict tourists from any country from visiting Jammu and Kashmir. Yes, if the other country, like Pakistan, bans Indian tourists from going around Pakistan, then the reciprocal ban is bilateral. I am deeply sorry about this state of affairs between India and Pakistan.

b) The Indian Government does not restrict journalists or diplomats from going to any part of the country. Again, this is reciprocal, ofcourse. I do believe, and this can be quantified, that restrictions on Indian journalists and diplomats in Pakistan are extermely severe, as compared to restrictions on Pakistani jouranlists and diplomats in India.

c) Having said that, great travellers of their times seldom let permission for being international observors stop them from doing their job. If I could go walk about in Pakistan, and write about it openly, and have the confidence that I shall do it again, then so can others from Pakistan. Why don`t they? Maximum, they will get deported?

+++

And from the since you asked department . . .

d) My rationale on 99% of Indian Muslims being happier in India is from this:- they tld me so. And . . . 50% of Indian Muslims are women, and are happier in India . . . 60% of the balance 50%, thus -30% men from non-Urdu backgrounds, and are happier in India. . . . now that leaves 20% Muslims in India, of whom say half are male children, and are happier in India because they can get an education, play games and look forward to a multihued future . . . nand ow that leaves 10%? So, OK, 90%? . . . but wait. Now we bring in the assorted sects of Islam who are happier in India, and on that I don`t have a number, but it must be sizeable?

Sigh.

+++

Omar:-

Why do newspapers cost so much in Pakistan? OK, I investigated, and would like to ask you here if we can do a joint report on the subject for Dawn? And if we can, I shall give you the numbers to back up my views.

1) Cost of newsprint - the cosy relationship between the owners and controllers of Dawn and Bennet Coleman & Co (TOI) being what it is, let us assume that we can convince suppliers to bring imported newsprint basis FOB any port Far East to the same as it is for Indian newspapers? All Dawn has to do is tie along and take volume benefits? That will reduce the cost of newsprint landed Karachi to about 40% of what it is today. So, one factor equalised? Import duties are a function of world trade, and I await figures for Pakistan, I am told they are 6% on CIF value, which is nothing, right, to justify a 15/- newspaper?

2) Benefit from advertisements - I got a friend who is positioned, happily, at the old Dawn offices in Daryaganj/Delhi currently occupied by TOI, to compare the rates for advertisements as well as market buzz for discounts for Dawn and TOI . . . and guess what, in real terms, ad cost TOI/India is about one-third that of Dawn, all other things being equal!!

3) Cost of technology - from what I gather, average age of machinery at The Dawn is (hold your breath) about 14 years. Newer machinery is cheaper, and would run commercially better for non media purposes too. Till Dawn spruces up, I guess it is not feasible as yet, but with even local newspapers in Indian Punjab running on machinery average age basis 18 months, cost of production could be cheaper in Indian Punjab. A print run of 50000 broadsheets for Pakistani newspapers done in Amritsar or Patti or Pathankot or Jamnagar or Bhuj or Suratgarh . . . and then sent across the border would bring those costs down? After all, Pakistan is buying aviation fuel from refineries in Indian Gujarat already anyways, so what is wrong with printing newspapers?? Or magazines??

4) Tangible Benefits due to power of an uhhhhm qualitative nature that accrue to newspaper managements tend to get ploughed back into the media in India. You know what I mean, the newspaper baron walks into the big politician/bureacrat`s office and gets a grand reception and all the work gets done? Where does this go in Pakistan? Knightsbridge?

I am glad you walked around in Lodi Gardens and Khan Market, which is like hanging around the Blue Areas of Islamabad and checking out the burgers and the baba and baby log. Next time you are in Delhi, please let me know and we shall go taking a look at real India?

I, however, peeled off on my own while in Pakistan, and went walkabout in great human parts of Mogulpura and Sheikhupura and Old Yateem Khana Gujranwalla and Sargodha and on the backroads outside Pindi, without in any way compromising my friends in Pakistan, for my perspective. I even tried to see how far I can go on the Kashmir Highway and discovered that even Pakistanis can not go too far beyond Kashmir Chowk. At the same time, I got my eyefull of Pindi Cantt. and Islamabad Club and Punjab Club/Lahore and Marriot/Pearl Hotels. There is a difference, right?

Romair 47 and other messages, forgive me for talking like hamidm2:- you are correct . . . in your view as an honourable representative of a colonial hukumat with an excellent track record on human rights and democracy and peace and healthcare and free media and bonded labour and feudal landlords and martial traditions especially on all other Muslims including lower elements like women and dark short people and Ahmediyas and Ismailis and Shias and Sunnis and Bengalis and Biharis and regardless of their gender and sect and mother tongue and eating habits and colour and size . . . you are correct, Romair, how could I even dare to argue?

India on the other hand, as informed to you by the Great PR Brigade from your eminent free press at 15/- a newspaper, must be terrible on Kashmiris.

The poor poor Indian Kashmiris, who are forced to be succesful businessmen all over the world and have the freedom to treat all of India as their own country. The pitiable Indian Kashmiris who are now forced to get busy building and using the Jammu-Srinagar Railway line (the Jammu-Udhampur section is now functional for passenger traffic too, at 100kmph). The devastated Indian Kashmiris who have brought traditional tunneling skills modernised through pan-India efforts to the Metro and Railways in India, which is abdominable. The Indian Armed Forces, just not JAK Rifles, Dogras, Ladakh Scouts but also the IAF and Navy and others who have no problems lately in recruiting tough Hindu, Sikh and Muslim youngsters from Jammu & Kashmir for defence including anti-insurgency operations in Kashmir as one of the boomerang effects of this long drawn out episode. Most of all, the long suffering Indian Kashmiris who have the right to vote, how can this be imposed on them? How dare we Indians do this?

Tourism in Kashmir this summer has reached the point where additional flights and trains are not enough, and that includes separated families visiting each other. I know for a fact that Pakistanis in India can move around into Jammu & Kashmir and not get stopped since they look like locals. I know for a fact also that Pakistanis in Pakistan can not move around POK because they look like locals. Isn`t that terrible on our part as Indians?

Get a life, Romair. Take a look at the numbers on Pakistani Kashmiris visiting India, and not returning back, if that is a benchmark.

On Kashmir, Romair, you don`t have a leg to stand on. Worry more about what Pakistan is doing to water in POK, first, since you have the time.

The real sitution in Kashmir, Romair, is that I as a bearded Indian who has had the reality check of being taken for a Pakistani Muslim at Attari Border/India as well as a Pakistani man from Karachi in Lahore/Islamabad, can drive across to Srinagar and Baramulla and beyond whenever I feel like. With a camera. And I tell you what:- I see more guns and military and sandbags and suppression in Islamabad than I see in Srinagar. I see more tourists of all colours and backgrounds in Srinagar in a week than you would see in a year in Islamabad/Rawalpindi. I can if I so desire trek up to the Line of Control at most places from the Indian side, but I don`t think you or too many people can do so in POK.

The real situation in Kashmir, Romair, is that Indian Kashmiri women are reaching out as the main bulwark against the fundoos, because they can. Yes, I know, that must be terrible for a particular variety of insecure male pigs.

So when you taunt Indians with being of a particular view on Kashmir, I ask you:- what`s wrong with that? Indians try to move women up in Kashmir, Indians try to move the economy up in Kashmir, Indians try to improve communications in Kashmir, tourism is up and away this year. And you point at figures pertaining to deaths in Kashmir, many of which are because of people trained in camps in Pakistan do not like Kashmir coming up on its won strength?

Mr. Qureshi,

This is the title of a news item in Dawn today: ``Seven Pakistanis were killed to please US: Macedonia ``

This is not just an absurdity, it is exactly the kind of misreporting that gives Pakistanis a distorted image of the US. Police in Macedonia killed those immigrants. They are the ones responsible, as the Macedonian court determined. What does the US have to do with this, other than in the mind of the Dawn reporter? In addition to be unprofessional reporting, this knee-jerk anti-Americansim ultimately damages Pakistan itself. I hope you will understand why I say this. If not, I will be glad to discuss this further with you on chowk. While it is great that we have a free press in Pakistan, that is not enough. A free press should also try to maintain standards of honesty and professionalism.

I would have sent a letter to Dawn to complain, but then I thought since we have a special ``in`` with a Dawn reporter on chowk, I would bring it to your attention. I hope you will consider this, and accept my request to convey my concerns to your editor.

Thank you.

Dost-Mitter, Romair, Omar

It is good to read responses where balanced & an honest discussion takes place.

Pakistan has many problems - the primary being that the state has officialy adopted a religion and put it so in black & white. Most, if not all, its woes stem from from it.

It is also true that the urgency and importance of resolving the issues is far greater in Pakistan interests than India.

And normalization of relations is that ONE easy step that has far reaching effects on its domestic & foreign policies - killing many birds with one stone. i.e. stopping India`s media & diplomatic onslought on International forums, reducing internal tensions & military`s significance on security issues, reducing Mulla`s India Card, great benefit for economy, free people to people contact between two countries letting an average Pakistani get the `other point of view` & bring about a change for greater tolerance in the society. and so on.

It is almost foolish not to do this and keep jumping on to Kashmir.

Hamidm2 solution was the beast - the China Type - Keep talking about Kashmir but have all other relations.

Dost-Mitter`s point is valid - first make Kashmir a non-news - people are already fed up with it - reduce it to the level of those border talks between India-China.

Musharaff proudly says that he is keeping the Kashmir issue alive - how to pump the Chinese wisdom into him?

Dost-Mitter # 41

Completely agree. Good post.

Romair#46, 47
You will find tons of references if you enter kashmir, human rights and indian newspapers. The issue has also been raised frequently in Parliament. But most people also recognise that human rights are difficult to hold up when security forces are retaliating against insurgency with significant local support when it becomes difficult to distinguish between friend and foe. Incidentally,when I see the carpet bombing and indiscriminate levelling of homes and killing of civilians by the US forces in Iraq, the Indian security forces seem paragan of virtue by comparison. And while there is no denying of the large numbers of civilian -mostly muslim- killings, does anyone know what proportion of these killings is by the militants and what proportion is by the security forces?

``I think you and I agree on almost everything, if not everything.``
I dont think so. We have a basic disagreement about the nature of the struggle in Kashmir. You think of it as a freedom movement, I consider it a religion based movement and I am saying this only because jehad is not a polite word to use these days.

``There is a genuine concern in Pakistan that India may back-off, when it comes time to crack the tough core.``

I am sure that Pakistan will not let it do so. In any case, it would be in India`s interests to resolve the issue and get it over with. Friends do try to resolve outstanding issues while enemies try to fight it out. We have been enemies for 56 years; let`s be friends for a few years and see.

Regarding Musharraf`s comment, it was not made to Pakistanis but to a group of most influential Indians. And he has repeated similar comments a few times since then.

hein kawakeb kuch nazar aatey hain kuch...