Education and the Nazim

veeresh #47 i am not sure how book prices in pakistan compare with those in india, and certainly if trade opens up with india we may find more books available at cheaper prices. the poor in pakistan are well aware of the benefits of education, and there are plenty of booklovers in pakistan.

but the most touching sight i ever saw was in bangladesh where i had gone for work and wanted to see the living conditions of the poorest people there. the first house i entered was a one room mud thing, with one flimsy bed and dirt floor. the only other thing was a pile of books a foot high which he was studying. clearly that family (like a lot of other poor families in bangladesh as well as in other countries in the subcontinent) had its priorities right.

sadna #51 those are certainly some valuable lessons you list from the indian experience, and will no doubt be something that we should be mindful of in pakistan. while still too early to tell, in going over the list, it seems that the conditions for success are being met most closely in the panjab. even in case of the other provinces, i dont think there is any going back to the DC system that has been abolished.

yogiraj #52 i think it is to be expected that in a country the size of india (or pakistan, for that matter) there will be many different ``school models`` in existence. in pakistan too, running of schools for profit is big business. but then there are also large numbers of charity-based schools. the infamous madrassahs represented another group, although they are now trying to change the curriculum from purely religious to religious plus normal education as well. The one thing common is the vast demand for schooling. I know a fellow who has opened over 60 girls schools in the poorest and most conservative areas of pakistan - and his model calls for the community to provide the school building (often just one room made mostly frm mud) and the teachers are paid from charity.

tahmed32:
``I dont see how being able to write one`s name equals literacy. someday i hope we have a higher standard for education``

I think that this definition was inherited from the British period. You were literate if you didn`t have to use a thumb impression instead of ``bukulum khud`` signature. I know that this was also the definition used by India in her earlier censuses. Don`t know what the current definition there is.

kaurasach #43 introducing propaganda in textbooks is certainly criminal. and pointless. since you cant fool all of the people all of the time.

sattar #46 I dont see how being able to write one`s name equals literacy. someday i hope we have a higher standard for education - like being able to observe facts for oneself and reach logical conclusions.

mein tou kehta hoon sarey politicians....beaurucrats ooper ooper key .. mardou .. aur naye laker bithadoiu... ppl who care for ths country...
jabhi iss mulk ka kuch hoga..
werna yahi haal raheyga...
inshaAllah bohat jald revolutuon aaega.. and thats the only way keyiss mulk ka kuch ho sakey
werna yeh mulk tou Allah chala raha hai .. aur keun yeh bhi Allah hi jaanta hai ...
but yaroun sub dua karo...

Omar, what is the point of your post #49? How is it relevant to what is being discussed?

If your intention is to get into a pi$$ing contest by posting links that show India in a bad light, then rest assured you will face a deluge of articles that show Pakistan in a worse light. We have seen this happen in Chowk time and again.

What are you going to achieve by hijacking this thread?

``#42 by tahmed32``

Thanks for the link.

There are two models thru, though integrated, things work in Maharashtra.

The provincial Govt. foots 100% of the bill of what we call as ``municipal`` or otherwise schools. They need to proscribe the programs/rules of the state Govt. For any additionals, the town or (municipality) need to foot the bill.

For example, all the state sponsored schools, provide 100% free education to girls. The boys have to pay (even though minimal) fee. Municipal school I went offered me (a boy) free education. Boys` fee bill was paid for by the near by ``town (?)`` thru property and other taxes and not by state govt.

Another ``scheme`` I benefitted was completely voluntary. No one used to ``sale`` books in my times. They were just passed on to next batch. I never used new books. They were always used by some one.

Majority of the capital exp. (Building etc) were footed thru charity in old times.

Education now, sadly, has become big money earning business (particulary higher education). The Lotas ``own`` educational institutions now a days. To their ``credit``, they are the ones who have paid for all the ``capital`` exp.

Yogiraj Patil

From the Indian experience, local governance systems donot work impeccably straight away, a lot of fine-tuning is required.

The key factors for success of local government appear to be :

1. The will and cooperation of the middle tier ie, the provincial/state govt. is a key factor, because a. the local government functions in the region of influence of state government, b. it is primarily subjects previously handled by the state govt. which are handed over to local governments.

2. The subjects handed over to local governments must be meaningful for devolution at local government level. Nonperforming local governments could become a block to progress esp. if the regional and national government give up accountability too hastily - there are trade-offs between accountability at a national, state and local level.

3. Adequate funding must be provided.

4. Mobilisation of local populace is important, otherwise it is business as usual, whether local government or local bureacrat.


Quoting from a Rajya Sabha debate, here is a sample of the complaints being made about the local government system in India :

A. `` We decentralised powers. But, decentralisation of corruption has taken place instead of decentralisation of powers. ``

B.``People who attend the first meeting of the Gram Sabha with a great enthusiasm, loose interest in the second or third meetings because of non-performance of any concrete work as the Panchayats had no powers and no money for development. Another problem is that members of Panchayat Samitis, Zila Parishads and Sarpanch strife against one another over development works.``

C. ``Before entrusting judicial powers with the Panchayats, they should be given training to make use of such powers so that people may get justice at the local level. ``

D. ``There are 29 subjects for Panchayats and 18 subjects for the Corporations, Municipalities which will be transferable by the State Governments. The State Governments have transferred so many subjects. The Union Government is having so many powers. Even the drinking water projects, rural development schemes, etc., are still vested with the Union Government. When the State Governments are transferring powers under the provisions of the Constitution which were enjoyed by the State Governments, why is the Union Government not transferring any power to the State Governments?

E. The three-tier institutional system is very difficult for a State like Kerala because it is a very small State. The intermediary Panchayat, that is, the block Panchayat is not essential. So, there is a unanimous opinion in our State that it may be made as an option. The Centrally sponsored schemes may be entrusted to the Panchayati-raj institutions.``

mumbaikar this is for you -- i hope you read it -- the paper which broke this story first was the Hindustan Times -- this particular story came in Dawn



Indian army admits faking Siachen encounters


By Jawed Naqvi

NEW DELHI, May 7: The Indian defence establishment was shaken to its roots on Friday over revelations by a newspaper that its officers on duty in the Siachen Glacier had routinely stage- managed encounters with imaginary Pakistani troops.

The idea was to paint the Indian officers with false glory that would fetch them coveted gallantry awards. The army promptly admitted to faking encounters with ``enemy personnel`` in Siachen last year and said administrative action has been ordered against a colonel and a major and disciplinary action taken against another major.

An army spokesman told reporters in New Delhi that a Court of Inquiry (COI) has named Major Surinder Singh for faking the killings and disciplinary action has been ordered against him.

Administrative action has been ordered against Colonel K. D. Singh and Major Rohit Lama for what the army described as ``administrative lapses``. The spokesman denied that Indian Army was claiming awards for ``imagined gallantry`` as reported in The Hindustan Times on Friday.

Analysts said the revelations had come at a crucial time in the Indian elections and could harm Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee`s bid for another term. The last leg of the four-phase polls is due on Monday.

Mr Vajpayee`s right-wing nationalist supporters are known to be partial to the army and object to public discussion of recent revelations of scandal-ridden financial deals involving the defence establishment.

Indian security forces have been blamed in the past for faking ``encounter deaths`` in Kashmir and elsewhere, partly due to the pressure of ``performing`` against anti-Indian militants.

Earlier, the Defence Ministry admitted in a press release on Friday that Major Singh had been blamed by the court for ``having faked the killings of enemy personnel``, but this version was changed later with an army spokesman confining himself to stating that this officer had been ``found culpable of having exaggerated and faking some events on the Glacier``.

The spokesman said the Commanding Officer and Major Lama were held ``guilty of committing acts of omission and commission of administrative nature and not operationally-related nor to Major Singh`s events.``

To questions whether the expose had sullied the image of the army, the spokesman sought to downplay the report. He said these the incidents were ``individual events`` and that stringent action would be taken against the guilty.

The Hindustan Times said that during hearings at the court of inquiry (COI), at which Major Singh also gave details about fake kills by units other than his own, the so-called ``enemy hits`` in Siachen came under severe scrutiny.

One issue was the distance from which the video recordings of the ``kills`` were made. It was pointed out that the videos had been tampered with, and that the ``enemy troops`` seen on tape had not been, contrary to standard practice, ``roped in``.

Questions were also raised on the effective ranges of precision weapons - some of the ``enemy kills`` appeared to have been made at 1,500 metres, by jawans not trained to use sniper rifles.

``Facing the COI, Major Singh`s commanding officer (CO) Col K. D. Singh vehemently denied all the charges of fake killings except those pertaining directly to Maj Singh,`` The Hindustan Times said.

Col Singh claimed that the only fake ``kills`` were those made by the Major himself on two occasions, and that the officer had been warned about them. He described Major Singh as having a diabolical frame of mind. He said that he (Col Singh) had instructed officers to give ``correct, timely and unexaggerated reports``. The veracity of videos of the ``kills`` was proved by the ``excitement and zeal`` in the background voices, he argued.

``It is amazing how the army failed to smell a rat about the abnormally high numbers of enemy `kills` in Siachen,`` The Times said, quoting sources. Nobody seems to have found it strange that except on a handful of occasions, there was no retaliatory fire from the ``enemy`` when the ``kill`` was made.

Said an Intelligence officer in Leh: ``In the last week of August when there was a genuine enemy kill, Pakistan kept firing at and shelling us for nearly 24 hours.`` 5/5 Gorkha Rifles has since moved on to elsewhere in Jammu and Kashmir. It has been replaced by a battalion of Jammu and Kashmir Rifles in the routine six-monthly turn-over of units on the Siachen Glacier.

Indian and Pakistani troops have been deployed since 1984 on the snowy wastes of the Siachen Glacier, north of the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir. It is one of the world`s most inhospitable places, where more soldiers die of cold and altitude sickness than through enemy action.

``Based on certain complaints that enemy killings have been fabricated by one unit in central glacier, a court of inquiry was ordered,`` the Defence Ministry said in a statement.

It said a major had been found guilty of ``having faked killings of some enemy personnel and destruction of enemy bunkers.`` The officer faces disciplinary action.

The Hindustan Times said that a third of the 50 killings of Pakistan soldiers attributed to Indian troops on the Siachen Glacier last year may turn out to be false. To make their claim realistic, Indian troops built an air defence bunker on their side of the glacier and destroyed it with rockets and mortars, claiming it was a Pakistani bunker, the newspaper said.

sattar dont know where you got your figures from -- the official literacy rate as claimed by the govt is 45 per cent , definitely unrealistically high, and the govt claims that it not anyone who can read and write his own name but someone who can writer, read and comprehend a short paragraph in his or her mother tongue -- i think it was changed to this in 1998

The books printed in India are five times cheaper than those printed in Pakistan. The high prices of books – along with lack of book-reading culture – put books beyond the reach of ordinary people. Despite the recent bonhomie, I don’t think that Pakistani government has allowed the imports of books/magazine from India. More expensive European and American publications with their off-putting prices are easily available though.

Perhaps the government should lift this ban (not to mention the ban on Indian TV channels and movies) for the good of its people.

tahmed32 - here is my favourite smoking versus reading theory - both support the paper industry no doubt but in addition the tobacco is good for you lobby kicks in too . . . so smoking is provided as a very cheap alternative to reading . . . and a smoke non-bidi costs 50 paise in Pakistan . . . I think there is a great case for expat Pakistanis to buy ``scrap/return/old edition/used`` books in bulk and just dump them in their home town/village . . . yes the pavement used book seller concept does very well and just needs encouragement, I used to love to watch bored cops on duty in Delhi and Bombay picking up books at random, and there was/is this thing called ``Rapidex English Speaking Course`` which was like a 300-400 page book in English + Hindi or English + vernacular . . . it works . . . so good luck . . . hope the Mullahs don`t destory the concept though . . .

I share Jay’s and Urstruly’s skepticism of this nazim business. It looks good on paper … but will eventually not yield much … is my guess. It`s only a matter of time when someone outsmarts this ``neat little scheme for local governance`` … and it will be business as usual.

Commenting on gujjubania’s post (#40) … as for Pakistan’s literacy rates … I have heard two very different numbers: one number pegs it around 27% … and the other … around 8%. The difference is due to varying definitions of literacy.

Pak government insists that anyone who can read one line of newspaper and sign his name, is literate. This yields the higher literacy rate of 27%. UNO standard however is more stringent … and results in literacy rate of about 8% (I still grapple with this low number ... ).

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