Complicity in Silence

....Yes I agree....
[quote]
Every smirking soldier and every dieing Iraqi is asking us to make a choice between silence and a stand.
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........What is more appaling....is the the utter disregard for such a sensitive issue ...on this forum...

syed Ali Yours is the First and Only topic related to this issue.....So Far....

On that happy (for you) thought of me going to outer space where there is no chowk connection, I end this (ha! ha!) discussion.
(hope previous sentence was not too undignified).

Tahmed32 # 110 - The idea of sending you into outer space is far more appealing to me than the mere thought of your joining police in Pakistan. Hopefully ``dignity`` is not one of traits among Martians - or you may find yourself ``out of place`` there too!

The last thing we need is Pakistani police getting its paycheck from US Defense Department and getting its training from Abu Gharaib prison guards.

malik #109 I think my example of the Pakistan Police is quite relevant and you are merely trying to split hairs. And in doing so, you simply lead yourself to make the absurd statement that the choice is between being ``part of the war machine or oppose the war machine``. To give another example to make the absurdity clear, I also support the idea of space exploration, and so by your logic I should be applying to NASA as well as the US Army. (Although, I am sure you would like the idea of my being sent to the Oort Cloud or some other place far away and so not be able to raise my hand and say ``But your highness...`` every time you make an absurd statement).

tahmed32 # 108 - You wrote ``I support law and order in Pakistan too - that does not mean I join the Pakistan Police and start patrolling the streets of karachi. ``

There is a HUGE difference between the eternal law and order chaos in Pakistan and the event which occured on March 19, 2003. That event had a starting point. That event did not exist on March 18th, 2003. There was a choice to be made in regards to the event. The choice was: should one be a part of the war machine or oppose the war machine. Pseudo-intellectuals like you chose the first.

And of course when all else falls apart, there is that automatic fall back position ``isn`t world better off without Saddam?`` !! :)

By the way, Thomas Friedman has made a complete about turn on war. Now he opposes it !!! After thousands of deaths, at least he sees the light. You will too - but only after all the `masters` have seen the light.

malik #99 Unlike you who has chosen to simply ignore some simple points I made on the basis of what you yourself wrote, I am not afraid to respond to any questions on anything I have written. That phrase in your question that I mentioned was gibberish, but since you have chosen not to clarify it, I will respond to the part of the sentence that is at least understandable.

So, question was: ``When are you going to Iraq to help out the US who you contributed in sending to that hellish war?``, and I will break it up into the gibberish and the non-gibberish parts.

non-gibberish part of your question: ``When are you going to Iraq to help out the US....?``
Response: The non-gibberish part of your question is (with all due respect), stupid: I support law and order in Pakistan too - that does not mean I join the Pakistan Police and start patrolling the streets of karachi.

Before the war, I provided the reasons why I supported it. I re-iterated those reasons below and you had no response. You can challenge something I have written if you find it factually wrong. You cant ask me when I am going to participate in something I support.

The rest of your post is your standard proclamations of victory. A bit like General Niazi driving around rawalpindi with his eastern command flag on his staff car after being released from Indian jail, until someone reminded him the eastern command no longer existed.

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malik #104 And one more thing - I said you were a hypocrite based on something you wrote where this hypocrisy stood out in black and white, and which I cut and paste. I challenge you to do the same to back your calling me a hypocrite - and failing that to accept the fact that you are merely tossing back my words at me without anything to back them up.

#98 Diablo
``And BTW...Jang....look up what happened in the fall of 2002....nuns were raped and churches were torched in Madras.....compliments of Shiv sena.``

Tells us how much ou know. The Shiv Sena guys are morelik ely to get roughed up in Chennai than any Christians.

tahmed32 # 102 - You write ``Your question is gibberish. Get it right first if you want me to understand what your question is. ``

I have asked you the same question 5 different ways, yet you giggle childishly and refuse to take it on like a man. You are a cornered and discredited war monger and a hypocrite and I, or this board, do not expect to hear anything rational from you in this regard.

#98

{{I am not here to defend the Ummah...read my previous posts}}

Whatever … what matters to me is that your default assumptions show your total ignorance of India – just like some of the other sermonizers who infest Chowk.

{{I am just disgusted by arjun_m.....critique is good but he sounds fanatical}}

Arjun’s posts are generally solidly based in fact – he typically has a link or two to support his claims. And he is always cogent and to the point.

Try dealing with the content of the post, not the personality behind it. Either its arguments are sound and its factual claims are well-founded – in which case you need to address the reality they depict; or the arguments and factual claims are unsound, in which case you ought to be able to laugh them off. I suspect that what upsets you –just as it upsets so many of the Pakistanis on Chowk - is precisely that arjun’s posts are well-founded, hit you repeatedly in your most vulnerable spots, force you to confront unpleasant realities you’d rather conceal.

{{is seething with hate against Muslims.......}}

Now you are really running true to a familiar Chowk type – the fellow who whines or rages about ‘hate speech’ or ‘hatemongering’ when he runs out of arguments to counter his adversaries. For some reason this seems to be a particularly common trait among Pakistanis – I strongly suspect it has its roots in the stupid notion of ‘blasphemy’.

{{NO RACE IS PURE AND NO RACE IS ABOVE ANY OTHER...NOT MUSLIM NOT HINDU!}}

When did ‘Muslim’ and ‘Hindu’ become ‘races’?

{{in the fall of 2002....nuns were raped and churches were torched in Madras.....compliments of Shiv sena.}}

Churches burnt in Madras? – by Shiv Sena? The Shiv-Sena’s stronghold is in Maharashtra, on the other side of the peninsula - 500 miles away. The Shiv Sena started its carrier as thuggish local ‘patriots’ in Bombay, harassing South Indians – so-called ‘Madrasis’ who were ‘stealing’ jobs from local boys. They don’t have much of a national presence. Since when have they had any muscle in Tamil Nadu, of all places?

At least try to learn the barest facts about India before you mouth off.

diablo....i have to agree with you.I`m an indian but am not too proud of all my fellow indians.Some indians are as racist and bigoted as everyone else is.I live in the US and can understand the american point of view too.That`s how it is and that`s how it will always be.I`ve never been to gujarat and i`ve always had the impression of my gujarati brothers as a money minded, scroungy, racist lot but the recent elections kinda disproved that image to an extent in my eyes.The silent majority ,rich or poor i can`t say, apparently lent a blow to that scum bag Modi and his ilk and defeated the BJP in a state that they thought they had in their bag.I feel bad for Vajpayee though.But he did associate with Modi, didn`t he???.Well, the key to south asia`s demise has been ``divide and rule``.The indian diaspora is trying to overcome that and thrive.Witness italian born sonia gandhi`s rise to power.The indians have demonstrated that they can rise to the occasion and unite under anyone as long as they are committed to india regardless of where they`re from either in india or overseas, what their faith is or their caste.Once again the simple indian voter has brought the powerful , the elite and the intellectual to their knees.The muslim world has to adopt some of this if they want to live in peace and harmony with the rest of the world.Empty bombast and rhetoric after a carnage will not do.The killing of Nick Berg is unjustified regardless of the reason.Two wrongs do not make a right.

malik #92 you write ``When are you going to Iraq to help out the US who you contributed in sending to that hellish war? ``

Your question is gibberish. Get it right first if you want me to understand what your question is.

(To help you understand why it is gibberish, look at this phrase in the sentence ``...the US who you contributed in sending ...``. What the hell am I supposed to make of this?)

Diablo #98,

``And BTW...Jang....look up what happened in the fall of 2002....nuns were raped and churches were torched in Madras.....compliments of Shiv sena.``

Would you mind providing a reference for that ? The Shiv Sena doesn`t have
much of a presence in Madras, if I remember right. I tried googling it, and all
I found was this -

``December 6, 2002 - More than 9,500 Dalits wishing to convert to Christianity and be baptized were turned back by police in Chennai. Several people were beaten and 11 people who helped organize the mass conversion ceremony were arrested in connection with Tamil Nadu`s new law against ``forcible`` conversions. Chairs set up for the event were also destroyed and various human rights violations were reported (ANS/AICC).``

Very good, Urstruly (#91) …

Your talk about moral standards is hypocritical. Pray tell us … how do you reconcile your high moral ideals … with condemning to death a Hindu for preaching his faith … with killing a person for blasphemy … with imprisoning an Ahmadi for saying “as’salam alaikom”. You justify your violent tendencies in the name of religion … and pretend that that’s good enough.

Conversely … you’d be happy to have a person’s head cut off … if he decided to leave Islam.

What is the difference between you and the animals you so eagerly condemn?

hahahahahahaha

Go ahead and dodge the question...again not a peep out of your mouth against your own.

Oh and by the way...if you think calling me a Camel jockey ticks me off...well it doesn`t....us camel jockeys had you kneeling for 700 years......God knows how you would classify yourself now.....