Hoping, Without Hope

#129 by omar_r_quraishi

[harish ji -- try something better than that to deflect the fact that your`s has been royally taken]

Hilarious! Omar mian, it is like a whore pointing out that someone has just lost her virginity.

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nahee shri pandit arjun jee -- but looks like india got lots of problems of its own hain na shir pandit arjun ji -- harish ji -- try something better than that to deflect the fact that your`s has been royally taken -- this one`s for you too harish ji

the writer is javed naqvi, syed ali naqvi`s bro -- doesnt really matter who the writer is since the story speaks for itself


Indian admits to fake Siachen action


By Our Correspondent

NEW DELHI, June 7: An Indian soldier, who served in the Siachen Glacier, testified before an army court on Monday that he had demolished a fake ``enemy target`` at the behest of a senior officer in August last year and later posed in a video film as an enemy casualty.

The revelations came as India`s new government prepared to challenge former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee`s administration with evidence of serious lapses in the Kargil conflict of 1999, which he had claimed as a victory.

Rifleman Shyam Bahadur Thapa was quoted by Indian reports as saying that his company commander Major Surinder Singh made everybody involved in the operation swear before Lord Hanuman not to reveal the truth to anyone.

``Earlier on August 20 the officer called me and asked me if I could operate a video camera. When I said I did not know how to operate a camera, Major Singh taught me its operation,`` he was quoted as saying.

When the apparently fake encounter was being enacted, Major Singh, according to Rifleman Thapa, asked him to go near the rubble of the ``enemy target`` and lie there along the wall.

``He asked me to remove my jacket and cap before going to the demolished fake target and lie there. But when I started moving with my jacket and cap on, Major Singh abused me in foul language,`` Thapa said.

``I was also asked by Major Singh to report a technical snag in the first two shots and fire with a rocket launcher to demolish the fake target,`` he said. ``The drama was re-enacted on September 21,`` Thapa said.

Rifleman Shyam Bahadur Thapa is the fourth soldier to tell the court that army faked encounters in Siachen. Earlier JCO Phatte Bahadur Thapa, Havaldar Neer Bahadur Ale and Nayak Bhuwan Bahadur Thapa made similar admissions.

The court is recording summary evidence as a follow up to a Court of Inquiry which held Col K D Singh and Maj R Lamba responsible for administrative lapses and recommended disciplinary action against Maj Surinder Singh for making exaggerated claims about strikes on enemy targets, euphemism for Pakistani troops.

The new Congress party government was reported on Monday to be planning further revelations on another battlefield - the Kargil conflict. The government was quoted as suggesting that Mr Vajpayee`s government had unncessarily delayed ordering air strikes in the Kargil conflict to evict Pakistanis from the heights.

An Indian TV documentary meanwhile quoted a senior army officier as saying that a certain Kagil peak known as Point 5353 which he said belonged to India was still with Pakistan. The peak overlooked the strategic highway to Leh, in Ladakh. India, the officer said, had to include this issue in its talks with Pakistan.

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An Indian Snoop`s take on the Shamzai murder:

`` B Raman

Did the US kill Pak cleric?

June 08, 2004


On May 30, unidentified terrorists riding a motorbike shot Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, chief of the hardline Deobandi Binori madrassa in Karachi, one of his sons and a nephew as he was returning home, located just across the road from the madrassa.

Nearly 10 days later, the Karachi police and Pakistani intelligence agencies are still groping in the dark in their attempts to identify the killers and establish the motive for the assassination.

As normally happens in Pakistan after each such terrorist strike, there has been speculation in the media and amongst the public. Sections of the local media, including the prestigious Daily Times of Lahore, have projected it as a possible act of retaliation by Shia extremists for the suicide bombing of the Haideri Masjid by Sunni terrorists early last month, in which 18 Shias were killed. The investigation into that incident is reported to have established that the suicide bomber was a police constable, who was a member of the anti-Shia Lashkar-e-Jhangvi.

Those who suspect Shia extremists belonging to the Sipah Mohammad to have been responsible for his assassination have projected the suicide bombing in the Ali Raza Imambargah in Karachi within 24 hours of Shamzai`s murder as an act of retaliation by the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi for his murder. Over 20 Shias were killed in this incident.

However, many of Shamzai`s colleagues in the Binori madrassa have refrained from blaming Shia extremists for the assassination and condemned attempts to project it as the outcome of the growing Shia-Sunni divide in Pakistan in general and in Karachi in particular.

Beware the Maulana

They blame the US for the assassination and accuse the provincial administration of Sindh, in which the Muttahida Qaumi Movement now plays a predominant role, of acting as the stooge of the US and facilitating his murder by not providing him with effective security despite the fact that he was in receipt of increasing threats to his life since early this year.

Their suspicions are shared by some leaders and many of the cadre of the mainstream Islamic political parties such as Qazi Hussain Ahmed`s Jamaat-e-Islami, Maulana Fazlur Rahman`s Jamiat-ul-Ulema Islam, a splinter group of the JUI led by Maulana Samiul Haq etc which constitute the six-party religious coalition called the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal.

In fact, in their First Information Report lodged with the local police after the assassination, office-bearers of the madrassa wanted to name Ishratul Ibad, the MQM governor of Sindh, as their principal suspect, but were persuaded by other religious leaders not to do so without evidence lest their action further spoil the atmosphere in Karachi and lead to acts of violence against the Mohajirs (migrants from India), whose interests the MQM represents.

Pakistan`s military dictator General Pervez Musharraf is a Mohajir and has been under attack by religious extremist elements since October 2002, for having rehabilitated the MQM and inducted its nominees into positions of power in
Karachi in return for its support for the government nominated by him in Islamabad and for his continuing as army chief in spite of his having crossed the age of superannuation. These elements accuse Musharraf and the MQM of acting in tandem in promoting US interests in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Mufti Shamzai`s real age is not known. Some say he was 52, but others say he was actually 70. In Pakistan`s religious hierarchy, he occupied the second position after Mufti Rafiuddin Usmani, who is the chief Mufti of Pakistan. He was better known than Usmani in Pakistan and the Islamic world and had a much larger following in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The Binori madrassa came to prominence in 1979 when the late Zia-ul Haq nominated its then chief and founder Maulana Yusuf Binori as chairman of the Council of Islamic Ideology. After the Soviet troops invaded Afghanistan towards the end of 1979, Shamzai in association with other mullahs of Pakistan issued a fatwa calling for a jihad against the Soviet Union.

Mufti Shamzai was then the blue-eyed mullah of not only Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence but also of the US Central Intelligence Agency and the Saudi intelligence and played an active role in the recruitment of Muslims from Pakistan and other Islamic countries and training them with the help of Pakistan`s military-intelligence establishment for waging a jihad against Soviet troops.

He became close to Zia, General Pervez Musharraf, General Mohammad Aziz, presently chairman, joint chiefs of staff committee, General Muzaffar Usmani (retired), former corps commander, Karachi, and vice-chief of the army staff, and three former jihadi chiefs of the ISI, namely, Lieutenant General Hamid Gul, Lieutenant General Javed Nasir and Lieutenant General Mahmood Ahmed.

During his career, he issued nearly 2,000 fatwas. In the 1970s and 1980s, his fatwas were mainly directed against the USSR, India and Israel. After Osama bin Laden formed his International Islamic Front in February 1998, his fatwas became increasingly directed against the US. After the US-led coalition started its so-called war against terrorism in Afghanistan in October 2001, he issued a fatwa calling upon the Muslims of the world to join the jihad against the US.

Shamzai was the mentor and godfather of Al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan and its militant wing the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami and the Jaish-e-Mohammad. He was designated patron-in-chief of the Jaish and was a member of the shura of Al Qaeda, the Taliban and Maulana Fazlur Rahman`s Jamiat-ul-Ulema Islam.

Jaish-e-Mohammad adopts new name

Shamzai, who strongly backed Musharraf`s seizure of power in October 1999, became increasingly critical of him after the general decided to cooperate with the US in its operations against Al Qaeda and the Taliban. He and his followers helped the leaders of the Taliban, including Mullah Omar, to escape from Afghanistan into Pakistan and take sanctuary there.

It was reported in 2002 that during the US operations against Al Qaeda in Tora Bora, Shamzai`s followers evacuated bin Laden, who had sustained a sharpnel injury, to the Binori complex in Karachi where he was treated till August 2002, by serving and retired medical doctors of the Pakistan army. He later left the madrassa.

Post-9/11, Shamzai promoted the formation of a clandestine organisation called Brigade 313 (the number of warriors in the battle of Badr at the time of the Holy Prophet) to wage jihad against Western nationals and interests and Christians in Pakistani territory. It consisted of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba, the Jaish, the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami and the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi.

All the members of this brigade are also members of the International Islamic Front. At his instance, members of this brigade infiltrated into Iraq to join the jihad against the US troops there.

Shamzai was the principal exponent of international Islamism which holds, firstly, that the loyalty of a Muslim is first to his religion and then only to the country of which he is resident or a citizen; secondly, that Muslims do not recognise national frontiers and hence have the right and the obligation to wage jihad anywhere to protect their religion; and, thirdly, that the Muslims have the right and the religious obligation to acquire and use weapons of mass destruction to protect their religion, if necessary.

These ideas strongly influenced bin Laden. Since the beginning of this year, there have been reports of differences in Al Qaeda and the International Islamic Front over targeting the Saudi ruling family and its administration by certain sections of these outfits. Shamzai, who had close contacts with the Saudi ruling family and religious clerics and received large funds from them, was reportedly increasingly critical of the Al Qaeda leadership for allegedly weakening the jihad against the US and Israel by targeting the Saudi authorities and thereby losing their support for international jihad. Al Qaeda elements were accusing him of letting himself be bought by the Saudi authorities and supporting the pro-US apostate regimes of the Islamic world.

Did these differences have anything to do with his assassination? If so, did Al Qaeda or the International Islamic Front have any role in his assassination? These questions remain without definitive answers for the moment.

America`s war on terror: complete coverage










B Raman

Looks like our good friend Omar is going berserk on Bihar. He posted it on another board too. Sure, we have problems there, but they are just a fraction of what you face back home in Pakistan. So just chill man.

#124-arjun_m

I agree with arjun. Trying to highlight the atrocities done on Muslim Indians will not make the killings of Shia Muslims in Pakistan finish or go away.
You have a point Omar, but right now, I think we should concentrate on what is going on in our country rather than what HAD happened in our neighbouring country. But then, this is a habit of us Pakistanis. Instead of fixing things at home, we start to compare our problems with those of our neighbour.
India doesn`t have a hand in the resignation of the ex-CM of Sindh. Or is there a comparison to make here as well?

Farheen Zehra

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nikki no man -- i rather stay here and deal with the likes of you -- ankit man you havings some kind of fit -- just saw OM loudly and breathe in -- you will be fine ankle, sorry ankit jee -- jay ram jee kee ankit jee

arjun bhai yeh bhee purh lain jee -- BBC ka hai -- hopes it objective enuff for u -- ankit ji aap bhi - nikki boy u too



Bihar overlooked by `Shining India`

Jill McGivering
BBC South Asia correspondent

Violence and political corruption are troubling India`s general election, which is again highlighting the vast disparity between a poor underclass and a rich elite.

Praveen is a stout, cheerful woman, braving the chaos of cycle rickshaws and wobbling bicycles with a determined smile.

As megaphones blare, she stops one passer by after another, trying to persuade them to sign a petition.

It is election time - but her evangelical zeal is not for a particular party or candidate but for democracy itself.

Praveen and her colleagues are taking their lives in their hands, and not just in the traffic.

We are in Patna, capital of the state of Bihar, the notorious bad boy of Indian politics.

It has a reputation for violent and corrupt politicians, election fraud and an electorate that has largely abandoned hope.


Politicians have even been accused of fuelling the violence as a way of keeping caste loyalties strong

As part of an independent monitoring body, Praveen is trying to take the politicians to task.
The only other woman in sight is an emaciated beggar, cradling a sick child.

Scruffy youths hang about aimlessly, leaning on each other`s shoulders, teeth stained red with betel nut.

Informed decision

In this election and for the first time, Praveen tells me, every candidate must declare key information.

Their wealth. Their debts. And, crucially here, lists of criminal charges against them.

So far, about one in five faces criminal proceedings. She wants the public - many of them illiterate - to make an informed decision.

But even she falters when I ask her if what happens in Bihar is really democracy.




Bihar is an example of India at its worst, a largely hidden shame

She throws her head back and laughs. Finally saying: ``It`s democracy gone wrong.``
It is easy to understand why many here despair. Bihar is one of India`s poorest states, desperate for development.

Its villages have few schools and clinics, and terrible roads.

It is also deeply scarred by decades of caste conflict, an endless cycle of attacks and counter-attacks between Hindu communities.

They define themselves by the social and religious categories they assume at birth.

Politicians have even been accused of fuelling the violence as a way of keeping caste loyalties strong.

The campaign talk does not address these burning issues.

Many here, who bother to vote, will do so unthinkingly along caste lines.

We drove out along pot-holed tracks to a small village, scene of one of the latest caste murders.

Mistaken identity

Chando, a scrawny woman in her 50s, crouched on her haunches in the darkness of a mud-walled one room home, thick with flies.

Villagers pressed round to listen. She could barely speak for weeping, rubbing the heel of her hands back and forth across her face.

Her brother-in-law, she said, was shot dead a few weeks ago by a gang of upper caste men. A case of mistaken identity.

He was the sole breadwinner for two families. Would she vote in the election? She shook her head. What was the point?

On voting day, we saw short queues of government workers at some polling stations - but also groups of young men with sticks hanging around in the street.


The riot police were out in force but by the end of the day reports were coming in of intimidation by gangs, election violence, even deaths.
The new electronic voting machines just introduced are designed to stop fraud. But they even cannot do much about an entrenched culture of lawlessness.

Bihar is an example of India at its worst, a largely hidden shame.

Its poverty is worlds away from the modern face of India, the plush new shopping centres of the capital, Delhi.

Here, under spotless glass and chrome, the affluent middle classes stroll arm in arm, enjoying snacks and soft drinks, browsing the latest fashions and hi-tech gadgets.

Security guards on the doors keep out undesirable elements.

`India is Shining`

The middle classes, much emphasised nowadays, are really a tiny elite.

One in three Indians still does not get enough to eat.

But those middles classes are high profile and mostly solid supporters of the ruling party, the BJP.


The party`s feel good slogan, ``India is Shining`` was written with them in mind.

I meet a young couple, a dentist and a psychiatrist, strolling with their three year old son.

``Voting is very important``, the husband tells me, nodding sagely.

``It`s our duty. Democracy is of the people, by the people, for the people.``

I ask them if they think politicians get their priorities right when there`s still so much poverty? They look bemused.

``But the basic issues are being addressed``, they explain. ``India is shining.``

The husband pauses to think. ``Perhaps we need to emphasise family planning more,`` he says at last, ``because the poorer people are multiplying.``

By now their own son is getting fractious, clamouring for attention.

It will be a long time before he gets a vote, I say. What changes would they like to see by then?

We would definitely like more improvements, more development, they say.

``And more shopping centres like this,`` exclaims the wife, laughing, before they stroll off.

It is almost certain the India their son inherits will still have democracy.

It will also have many more air-conditioned shopping centres in its big cities.

No doubt he will spend many happy hours there. But will he ever, I wonder, visit the struggling state of Bihar?

And if he does, what changes, if any, would he find?

From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday, 8 May, 2004 at 1130 BST on BBC Radio 4. Please check the programme schedules for World Service transmission times.


Story from BBC NEWS:

114 by ZahraJ

Zahra,

Thanks! :-)

la haul wila kuwat

mullah omar ji ( peace be upon you sirji)

i am hoping the shia and sunni freedom fighters get the hooris they were promised by you maulana saheb..please dont cheat poor souls on that.

allah hafij sirji

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Arjun, when you are a very old man, your grandchildren can entertain you by trampling on a Pakistani flag, will probably add a few Years to your term.

You might wanna put this in your will

;)