farheen zehra May 31, 2004
#35 Posted by Urstruly on June 1, 2004 11:40:59 am
arjun-m
A truck bomb hit the pentagon and not a missile and definitely not a plane; as reported by AP and the evident by the crater in front of it.
#34 Posted by rahul_capri on June 1, 2004 11:37:45 am
ref Urstruly-#18
``It is simple as 2 plus 2. ``
It really does seem to be simple,like child`s play,for CIA.
Lets for a moment believe that your analysis is correct..Then, dont we need to think about how come it is so simple to play people against each other, as 2 + 2?
``It is simple as 2 plus 2. ``
It really does seem to be simple,like child`s play,for CIA.
Lets for a moment believe that your analysis is correct..Then, dont we need to think about how come it is so simple to play people against each other, as 2 + 2?
#33 Posted by arjun_m on June 1, 2004 11:37:45 am
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#32 Posted by arjun_m on June 1, 2004 11:37:45 am
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#31 Posted by arjun_m on June 1, 2004 11:37:44 am
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#30 Posted by Ahmadzai on June 1, 2004 11:37:44 am
Farheen:
I am taking a short interval from family meets and get-togethers.
You have written an emotinally charged article.
Please understand that at people to people level there is total solidarity and unity against the terrorist attacks. Listening to the folks from MMA and MQM one things come out loud and clear (at least there is a unity of viewpoint here) - there is an unknown force unleashed on Pakistanis by the powers that be who want to divide Muslims along Shia - Sunni lines. As soon as the terrorism occurs, BBC and CNN run the same story culminating in their twist, ``Karachi has seen frequent sectarian riots``. This line is also being unrealistically towed by yourself. We all know that this is not true. There have been no mob violence or Sunni-Shia feuds at people to people level. Actually, the unity has increased. The designs of the evil doers are destined to fail. To divide Pakistanis, they will have to come up with a better idea. This one is bound to fail.
I am taking a short interval from family meets and get-togethers.
You have written an emotinally charged article.
Please understand that at people to people level there is total solidarity and unity against the terrorist attacks. Listening to the folks from MMA and MQM one things come out loud and clear (at least there is a unity of viewpoint here) - there is an unknown force unleashed on Pakistanis by the powers that be who want to divide Muslims along Shia - Sunni lines. As soon as the terrorism occurs, BBC and CNN run the same story culminating in their twist, ``Karachi has seen frequent sectarian riots``. This line is also being unrealistically towed by yourself. We all know that this is not true. There have been no mob violence or Sunni-Shia feuds at people to people level. Actually, the unity has increased. The designs of the evil doers are destined to fail. To divide Pakistanis, they will have to come up with a better idea. This one is bound to fail.
#29 Posted by Ahmadzai on June 1, 2004 11:37:44 am
arjun at # 26:
Its Zubaid Jalal who calls herself a fundamentalist in Pakistan, but its in democratic, secular, super-successful, shining India that elected moderates and seculars like Modi kill Muslims and Advani and Joshi destroy symbols of tolerance.
Its Zubaid Jalal who calls herself a fundamentalist in Pakistan, but its in democratic, secular, super-successful, shining India that elected moderates and seculars like Modi kill Muslims and Advani and Joshi destroy symbols of tolerance.
#28 Posted by mohar11 on June 1, 2004 10:32:52 am
DAWN editorial says this sunni mullah was a good guy, ``divine`` in fact. He had ties with Mullah Omar but didn`t approve his methods of violence.
``Shamzai ...... A venerated scholar and divine, he had never preached sectarian hatred. ``
So what`s the deal here!
``Shamzai ...... A venerated scholar and divine, he had never preached sectarian hatred. ``
So what`s the deal here!
#27 Posted by wisibaba on June 1, 2004 10:32:28 am
whts hapning in karachi its not sectarian killing or shia sunii fight , once strong hold of mqm is now totaly under controle of fanatic so called jihadies n the idiots who r ruling this city r trying this way to devide them n destroy them n as farheen zehra has mentioned tht (These men were protesting against terrorism that led to the death of their spiritual leader. Their protest was a message to the government to mend its ways before these men turn all their anger loose) this protest was against govt the real govt to stop this nonsens and may alll these continous incedents r hapning jus to build and imresive charge sheet against ????
#26 Posted by arjun_m on June 1, 2004 10:32:27 am
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#25 Posted by arjun_m on June 1, 2004 10:32:27 am
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#24 Posted by humairshah on June 1, 2004 10:31:16 am
it will stop...someday....
when this city will loose all his glory and charms :)
when this city will loose all his glory and charms :)
#23 Posted by malik99 on June 1, 2004 10:31:16 am
Farheen - As unfortunate and tragic the sectarian violence in Pakistan is, the theme of your essay - which seems to look at these events as `maligning` Islam, is rather unfortunate too.
This trend and fashion that has emanated from West of blaming EACH AND EVERY SINGLE issue in muslim world to Islam is also being further propagated by Muslims themselves. This kind of thinking will not lead to any solution. I have yet to see writers like yourself blaming the teachings of Christianity for the Holocaust, the widerspread pedophilia in churches, widespread racism, or the widespread murders in streets. Even though these problems seem to be more acute in `christian` countries, bringing the religion of Christianity into discussion while discussing these would be stupid, wouldn;t you agree? And how many times have you brough the religion of Judaism into discussion when talking about the cold-blooded murders of non-jewish children in Palestine?
These tragic events of shooting at the mosques will not be eradicated by bringing Islam into discussion. These are POLITICAL problems, not religious problems. Yes, we need to look at the way we practice Islam. But that is an ENTIRELY separate issue. There is a genuine political turmoil in Pakistan dating back to 1947 - we must recognize that fact. There are young disenfrnachised people in millions who are hopeless without hope. Pushing every problem under the rug of Islam might score us brownie points with West in the short term, they will not lead to any viable solution.
However, our leaders are happy with this approach, because this way we do not look at the mischiefs they have spread through out our lands.
This trend and fashion that has emanated from West of blaming EACH AND EVERY SINGLE issue in muslim world to Islam is also being further propagated by Muslims themselves. This kind of thinking will not lead to any solution. I have yet to see writers like yourself blaming the teachings of Christianity for the Holocaust, the widerspread pedophilia in churches, widespread racism, or the widespread murders in streets. Even though these problems seem to be more acute in `christian` countries, bringing the religion of Christianity into discussion while discussing these would be stupid, wouldn;t you agree? And how many times have you brough the religion of Judaism into discussion when talking about the cold-blooded murders of non-jewish children in Palestine?
These tragic events of shooting at the mosques will not be eradicated by bringing Islam into discussion. These are POLITICAL problems, not religious problems. Yes, we need to look at the way we practice Islam. But that is an ENTIRELY separate issue. There is a genuine political turmoil in Pakistan dating back to 1947 - we must recognize that fact. There are young disenfrnachised people in millions who are hopeless without hope. Pushing every problem under the rug of Islam might score us brownie points with West in the short term, they will not lead to any viable solution.
However, our leaders are happy with this approach, because this way we do not look at the mischiefs they have spread through out our lands.
#22 Posted by malik99 on June 1, 2004 10:31:16 am
There was a time not too long ago, when such violence was blamed on India. The general public would channel its rage to these ``foreign agents`` and our incompetent rulers would continue on with their rule. But since in the current climate of ``pak-india friendship`` it is not politically expedient to blame india, Islam has emerged as the scapegoat of choice. The place of ``foriegn agents`` has been taken by ``religious zealots``.
We should take a step back and ask our incompetent rulers what have they done to provide security to Pakistanis? If they can mobilize 100,000 pakistani army on the border with Afghanistan for the security of America, why can`t they mobilize same resources and energy and vigor for the security of Pakistanis?
We should tell these enslaved and feeble rulers that it is THEIR incompetence and THEIR misplaced focus and THEIR ``form of`` democracy that is to be blamed for our crisis. We will not continue to accept the ``foriegn agents`` excuse to overlook THEIR loot of our national resources and playing havoc with the security and inegrity of Pakistan. We will not let these tragic events take away our attention from the fact that these american installed rulers have been good for america and bad for Pakistanis.
We should take a step back and ask our incompetent rulers what have they done to provide security to Pakistanis? If they can mobilize 100,000 pakistani army on the border with Afghanistan for the security of America, why can`t they mobilize same resources and energy and vigor for the security of Pakistanis?
We should tell these enslaved and feeble rulers that it is THEIR incompetence and THEIR misplaced focus and THEIR ``form of`` democracy that is to be blamed for our crisis. We will not continue to accept the ``foriegn agents`` excuse to overlook THEIR loot of our national resources and playing havoc with the security and inegrity of Pakistan. We will not let these tragic events take away our attention from the fact that these american installed rulers have been good for america and bad for Pakistanis.
#21 Posted by flyhighkites on June 1, 2004 10:31:15 am
First Comment:
Dear writer and others -
Karachi, despite all the Shi`a-Sunni-Shi`a killings is cautious and wary at the moment. The question that the ordinary citizens (who largely outnumber any ``bad`` elements) are asking: where is this leading us to? And isn`t that exactly what we should NOT be led into? That is, rioting, mindless mob attacks, panic, chaos. Apart from the perpetual discussion about Mush, terrorists, cross-border hangamas, etc., there is another angle to these particular KHI incidents - which is of ``planted`` riots.
If you study the pattern of the incidents you will note that.... there is no pattern! Sadly, the situation is a little worse than any one or two parties fighting each other out. All at once, this is political, religious, economical, and simply a civic situation. The rioters out there - they have varied motives. And they are instigated by varied elements.
There are no clear agendas. Most of what is happening is by the mindless, for a thoughtless purpose. At once, there are many elements that are active - terrorism has been franchised and branched out far and wide. On the one hand it is supported by mindless folks who only use religion as their only reference to authority and the only-worthwhile-thing-they-did-in-their-otherwise-idle-lives... and on the other hand, by the equally shapeless panic and fright of the sufferers.
What can one say? It is a sad if not hopeless situation.
Dear writer and others -
Karachi, despite all the Shi`a-Sunni-Shi`a killings is cautious and wary at the moment. The question that the ordinary citizens (who largely outnumber any ``bad`` elements) are asking: where is this leading us to? And isn`t that exactly what we should NOT be led into? That is, rioting, mindless mob attacks, panic, chaos. Apart from the perpetual discussion about Mush, terrorists, cross-border hangamas, etc., there is another angle to these particular KHI incidents - which is of ``planted`` riots.
If you study the pattern of the incidents you will note that.... there is no pattern! Sadly, the situation is a little worse than any one or two parties fighting each other out. All at once, this is political, religious, economical, and simply a civic situation. The rioters out there - they have varied motives. And they are instigated by varied elements.
There are no clear agendas. Most of what is happening is by the mindless, for a thoughtless purpose. At once, there are many elements that are active - terrorism has been franchised and branched out far and wide. On the one hand it is supported by mindless folks who only use religion as their only reference to authority and the only-worthwhile-thing-they-did-in-their-otherwise-idle-lives... and on the other hand, by the equally shapeless panic and fright of the sufferers.
What can one say? It is a sad if not hopeless situation.
#20 Posted by pmishra2 on June 1, 2004 10:31:15 am
As always, my best wishes to my pakistani friends. In the immortal words of Omar R. Qureishi, your ``freedom struggle`` has now begun for real. Enjoy it ! So far your ``freedom struggle`` was limited to us useless pagans. But now it has finally arrived in your cities and in your homes. Mubbarakein, Buddhaee !
And please do not condemn this violence as some of the short-sighted people are doing on this list. Imagine the dedication and frustration of the people behind this! Why would anyone give up their lives, unless they were terribly oppressed???
Do not condemn them without understanding the ``root cause``. Be sympathetic and loving towards the wonderful (if slightly misguided) people behind all this. I hope no one will suggest use of police or military to control this problem. Those atrocities will only naturally lead to need for more ``freedom``.
Why not call in the UN and see if a referendum is needed in Karachi? It seems to me that is the best way to proceed. Let justice prevail. Remember, there is never any smoke without fire....
[Sorry, I ran out of the cliches that are daily used to justify violence against indians in Pakistani newspapers. Next time I promise to do a better job]
And please do not condemn this violence as some of the short-sighted people are doing on this list. Imagine the dedication and frustration of the people behind this! Why would anyone give up their lives, unless they were terribly oppressed???
Do not condemn them without understanding the ``root cause``. Be sympathetic and loving towards the wonderful (if slightly misguided) people behind all this. I hope no one will suggest use of police or military to control this problem. Those atrocities will only naturally lead to need for more ``freedom``.
Why not call in the UN and see if a referendum is needed in Karachi? It seems to me that is the best way to proceed. Let justice prevail. Remember, there is never any smoke without fire....
[Sorry, I ran out of the cliches that are daily used to justify violence against indians in Pakistani newspapers. Next time I promise to do a better job]
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