farheen zehra May 31, 2004
#1 Posted by Thunderbird on May 31, 2004 6:10:03 pm
Lets see if there are answers to the questions raised in your essay in things other than machinations of a particular sect or religious system. Also lets note the obvious that depending on point of view all religions can be safely considered to promote `peace, harmony and universal love`, while at the same time the life of all major religions abound with examples of `hatred, killings and extremism`. Presently a burden is being carried by Islam due to understandable factors, and this has not always been like this as we all know. Lets identify one of those factors to be the results of the colonialism and ‘victors` peace’ from the wars of first half of 20th century and before.
Now we as humans have always killed other humans and in name of all things rational and irrational. This is one of those reactions instilled in us humans by nature, which exposes itself subject to conditions. So ‘human-condition’ in a particular moment of time may be considered a common denominator cause. `We` have always managed to convince ourselves with the help of right set of arguments to commit `sins` whenever our natural inclinations and instincts have come calling. Sacrifice of fellow humans is a case in point, which was practiced in the ‘advanced’ societies of fore. Are there any similarities in advancing an army to a war front? Do we see elements of necessary human sacrifice to notions of glory, defense of the nation, etc. etc. to which some kings or leaders convinced themselves to and in turn convinced their people to lay down their lives for, whether those conditions existed or not.
How is it connected to subject? Pakistanis, as other nations may or may not which again depends on set of conditions, have had convinced themselves to or were convinced by others to make reactionary decisions and then justify them in light of broader national interest. In recent past the Islamisation of society (needed for Afghan war?), the support to Kashmir freedom struggle (right when seen in light of morality? wrong when seen in hindsight due to unsuccessful result?), acceptance of Taliban (acceptable as instrument of peace in war torn Afghanistan?), abandonment of Taliban (post 9/11 necessity? who wants to side with losers? need to save its own ass?), abandonment of Kashmir cause (post 9/11 realities of world?). Ok, so now is it any wonder Pakistan has a disillusioned generation at its hands fed on doctrines of now abandoned initiatives and causes?
Believe me that the leaders and thus the followers of these sects at work in Karachi and elsewhere are fully convinced of their being on the ‘right’ side and thus are able to justify their actions. And if one thinks that Islam or for that matter any religion by default would guarantee peace, if not externally then atleast internally, then I recommend rereading history and using scholars which present more than a selective glorifying view.
As deplorable as the incidents in Karachi are, they are committed in rage and are results of a group’s mob-mentality. Can it be said that all of us might have done things in our group of friends which we wouldn’t have done alone. There is nothing more to them then a resultant reaction from a state of mind or from a human-condition. Ofcourse my objective is not to justify these ugly incidents but to try and throw light on background forces. Compare them to actions of ‘rational’ men; war in Iraq, abuse in Abu-Gharib prison, decision to allow honor killing or rape by so called jirgas. See as humans we continuously convince ourselves to do those things that for someone ‘not-convinced’ would be appalling. And also don’t forget Godhara & Gujarat, the problems in Ireland between Catholics and Protestants, Catholic witch-hunts of sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, Inquisition and oppression of Jews and Muslims in the so-called civilized First World of today.
Now who will stop this? Leadership. Which is based on human values not in sentimental ideology, which takes decision in long term ‘one which satisfies the needs of the present generations without putting in jeopardy the satisfaction of needs of the future’ (i.e; sustainable development), so which works to remove disparity between rich and poor. What will stop this? Conviction. When we will increasingly and gradually convince ourselves that a human life perhaps is more important than the ‘protection’ of a certain notion.
Will it ever stop? Never, if you ask me. This is essential human nature like it or not. We will keep convincing ourselves to kill other humans in name of some obscure need, idea or notion. So personally I try and look for answers to such troubling questions in things other than morality and religion, which are just a state of our mind unless we convince ourselves to some things more beneficial in comparison.
Now we as humans have always killed other humans and in name of all things rational and irrational. This is one of those reactions instilled in us humans by nature, which exposes itself subject to conditions. So ‘human-condition’ in a particular moment of time may be considered a common denominator cause. `We` have always managed to convince ourselves with the help of right set of arguments to commit `sins` whenever our natural inclinations and instincts have come calling. Sacrifice of fellow humans is a case in point, which was practiced in the ‘advanced’ societies of fore. Are there any similarities in advancing an army to a war front? Do we see elements of necessary human sacrifice to notions of glory, defense of the nation, etc. etc. to which some kings or leaders convinced themselves to and in turn convinced their people to lay down their lives for, whether those conditions existed or not.
How is it connected to subject? Pakistanis, as other nations may or may not which again depends on set of conditions, have had convinced themselves to or were convinced by others to make reactionary decisions and then justify them in light of broader national interest. In recent past the Islamisation of society (needed for Afghan war?), the support to Kashmir freedom struggle (right when seen in light of morality? wrong when seen in hindsight due to unsuccessful result?), acceptance of Taliban (acceptable as instrument of peace in war torn Afghanistan?), abandonment of Taliban (post 9/11 necessity? who wants to side with losers? need to save its own ass?), abandonment of Kashmir cause (post 9/11 realities of world?). Ok, so now is it any wonder Pakistan has a disillusioned generation at its hands fed on doctrines of now abandoned initiatives and causes?
Believe me that the leaders and thus the followers of these sects at work in Karachi and elsewhere are fully convinced of their being on the ‘right’ side and thus are able to justify their actions. And if one thinks that Islam or for that matter any religion by default would guarantee peace, if not externally then atleast internally, then I recommend rereading history and using scholars which present more than a selective glorifying view.
As deplorable as the incidents in Karachi are, they are committed in rage and are results of a group’s mob-mentality. Can it be said that all of us might have done things in our group of friends which we wouldn’t have done alone. There is nothing more to them then a resultant reaction from a state of mind or from a human-condition. Ofcourse my objective is not to justify these ugly incidents but to try and throw light on background forces. Compare them to actions of ‘rational’ men; war in Iraq, abuse in Abu-Gharib prison, decision to allow honor killing or rape by so called jirgas. See as humans we continuously convince ourselves to do those things that for someone ‘not-convinced’ would be appalling. And also don’t forget Godhara & Gujarat, the problems in Ireland between Catholics and Protestants, Catholic witch-hunts of sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, Inquisition and oppression of Jews and Muslims in the so-called civilized First World of today.
Now who will stop this? Leadership. Which is based on human values not in sentimental ideology, which takes decision in long term ‘one which satisfies the needs of the present generations without putting in jeopardy the satisfaction of needs of the future’ (i.e; sustainable development), so which works to remove disparity between rich and poor. What will stop this? Conviction. When we will increasingly and gradually convince ourselves that a human life perhaps is more important than the ‘protection’ of a certain notion.
Will it ever stop? Never, if you ask me. This is essential human nature like it or not. We will keep convincing ourselves to kill other humans in name of some obscure need, idea or notion. So personally I try and look for answers to such troubling questions in things other than morality and religion, which are just a state of our mind unless we convince ourselves to some things more beneficial in comparison.
#2 Posted by HP on May 31, 2004 6:10:03 pm
You live by the sword, you die by the sword.
Mufti Shamzai was one of the architects of sectarianism and terrorism in Karachi and Pakistan. He was a major supporter of OBL and Taliban. His Madarssa was the hotbed of fanatics, who spread out all over Pakistan and then to India and Kashmir in pursuit of their kind of violence.
He routinely provided shelter to murderers and some of his victims took him out. Too bad but he had it coming.
How this sponsor of terrorists can be called an “Islamic scholar” is beyond me. There was nothing ``scholarly`` about him. He masterminded killings. Do you become a scholar by preaching violence in the new Islamic Pakistan?
It is a pity that he was never booked by the law enforcement in Pakistan for masterminding murders, sectarian violence, and terror.
“These men were protesting against terrorism that led to the death of their spiritual leader.”
His killing is not terrorism at all. That is just an act of violence against a person who lived and breathed violence himself. He unleashed terror on innocent people. He was one of the major symbols of terrorism and sectarianism in Pakistan.
#3 Posted by Tmk on May 31, 2004 6:10:04 pm
Farheen,
This can only stop when General Musharraf stops talking and starts acting. I have beeen hearing for a number of years about General Musharraf`s vision, his enlightened moderation, but am yet to see any tangible action on his part. He backed down in 2000 when he was thinking of scrapping the blasphemy laws. Now he wants the parliament to look at the Hudood laws, knowing well that the parliament has no power. He gets things done when he wants, but as far as sectarianism is concerned, he hasn`t takien tangible actions.
He needs to CLOSE down ALL madrassahs that are sectarian in nature..and hopefully many others as well..A small number of madrassahs can be allowed to open because it may not be politically feasible to close down all of them...but we know the worldview of these people and that makes them a huge threat to Pakistan..today 16 more innocents have died in Karachi..this will not stop until the goverment takes action over Madrassahs and starts to resurrect its education system..Money needs to be pumped into education, but as Shahid Burki, formerly of the world bank has pointed out, the main problem is the flawed policy prescriptions which will have to be changed. But the education budget will have to be increased.
All this is tied together with decreasing the military budget, and making peace with India since confontation with India has severe economic effects.
But you can even leave the peace with India out of this and still have a major effect on sectarianism once the government starts to do something about these Madrassahs where innocent young minds are manipulated.
We have seen that there is a disconnect between General Musharraf`s words and his actions on the Madrassah issue, and somethind needs to be done abotu this. They also need to change Zubedia Jalal, who is ``proud to be a fundamentalist``. Also, an incompetet, irresponsible and corrupt person like Ijaz-Ul-Haq will have to be sacked from the religious affairs ministry since his father is the man who started this whole business, even though the anti-Ahmadi laws were enacted by Bhutto in the 1970s. But Zia was the one who is most responsible for all this sectarianism.
This can only stop when General Musharraf stops talking and starts acting. I have beeen hearing for a number of years about General Musharraf`s vision, his enlightened moderation, but am yet to see any tangible action on his part. He backed down in 2000 when he was thinking of scrapping the blasphemy laws. Now he wants the parliament to look at the Hudood laws, knowing well that the parliament has no power. He gets things done when he wants, but as far as sectarianism is concerned, he hasn`t takien tangible actions.
He needs to CLOSE down ALL madrassahs that are sectarian in nature..and hopefully many others as well..A small number of madrassahs can be allowed to open because it may not be politically feasible to close down all of them...but we know the worldview of these people and that makes them a huge threat to Pakistan..today 16 more innocents have died in Karachi..this will not stop until the goverment takes action over Madrassahs and starts to resurrect its education system..Money needs to be pumped into education, but as Shahid Burki, formerly of the world bank has pointed out, the main problem is the flawed policy prescriptions which will have to be changed. But the education budget will have to be increased.
All this is tied together with decreasing the military budget, and making peace with India since confontation with India has severe economic effects.
But you can even leave the peace with India out of this and still have a major effect on sectarianism once the government starts to do something about these Madrassahs where innocent young minds are manipulated.
We have seen that there is a disconnect between General Musharraf`s words and his actions on the Madrassah issue, and somethind needs to be done abotu this. They also need to change Zubedia Jalal, who is ``proud to be a fundamentalist``. Also, an incompetet, irresponsible and corrupt person like Ijaz-Ul-Haq will have to be sacked from the religious affairs ministry since his father is the man who started this whole business, even though the anti-Ahmadi laws were enacted by Bhutto in the 1970s. But Zia was the one who is most responsible for all this sectarianism.
#4 Posted by Syd on May 31, 2004 6:10:04 pm
Can we coin a new word to replace `religion`/`Islam`? I grow tired listening of Islamist Terror groups, Islamic militants, Islamic Jihad, Islamic traditions, Islamic this Islamic that.
I understand that you, the author, write about things that leave an impression on you. But really, where`s the point in this piece of writing - numerous articles of this nature have been generated, numerous arguments and thoughts on Religion/Islam/Sectarian Violence float around us, but has any of that ever made a difference? Are you going to go to those Madrassahs and tell little impressionable kids that the ultimate Jihad is against one`s own demons and that killing people is an unintelligent, uncivilized way to get your message across? Are you going to do any of that? Am I going to do any of that - definitely not. I am out of that country. The only reason all this does more than just disgust me is that this is utter stupidity. There`s no end to it, many will die and many will kill. And trust me, nobody`s a jihadi here and nobody`s going to heaven - if killing/getting killed in the name of Islam was all that was needed, then no one would worry about civilization.
Till then, let`s try to live.
I understand that you, the author, write about things that leave an impression on you. But really, where`s the point in this piece of writing - numerous articles of this nature have been generated, numerous arguments and thoughts on Religion/Islam/Sectarian Violence float around us, but has any of that ever made a difference? Are you going to go to those Madrassahs and tell little impressionable kids that the ultimate Jihad is against one`s own demons and that killing people is an unintelligent, uncivilized way to get your message across? Are you going to do any of that? Am I going to do any of that - definitely not. I am out of that country. The only reason all this does more than just disgust me is that this is utter stupidity. There`s no end to it, many will die and many will kill. And trust me, nobody`s a jihadi here and nobody`s going to heaven - if killing/getting killed in the name of Islam was all that was needed, then no one would worry about civilization.
Till then, let`s try to live.
#5 Posted by DoubleC on May 31, 2004 6:10:04 pm
You answered all your questions in the first sentence: we are a backward, third world nation where barbarians live
A friend of mine who runs a small factory in Karachi informed me that he could only do 6 days of work due to the problems and hartals. I guess the people of Karachi need to vote in a different party in the next elections that will try to solve the lawlessness.
A friend of mine who runs a small factory in Karachi informed me that he could only do 6 days of work due to the problems and hartals. I guess the people of Karachi need to vote in a different party in the next elections that will try to solve the lawlessness.
#6 Posted by arjun_m on May 31, 2004 6:10:43 pm
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#7 Posted by arjun_m on May 31, 2004 6:10:43 pm
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#8 Posted by mohar11 on May 31, 2004 6:10:44 pm
//....Who will stop this? Or rather, what will stop this? ....//
Here is a TO DO list , if followed in letter and spirit, will stop it:
1. Close all madrassas, bar none.
2. Fire the generals, disband the army - with money saved, open ``normal`` schools.
3. Anybody with beard longer than half-inch - send them to Gitmo.
4. Keep the saudis at arm`s length. Ban their money. Ban all arabic korans - only urdu and punjabi,sindhi korans are allowed.
5. Ban following words: jihad, kufr, Kashmir, palestine, chechnya.
That`s a start.
Here is a TO DO list , if followed in letter and spirit, will stop it:
1. Close all madrassas, bar none.
2. Fire the generals, disband the army - with money saved, open ``normal`` schools.
3. Anybody with beard longer than half-inch - send them to Gitmo.
4. Keep the saudis at arm`s length. Ban their money. Ban all arabic korans - only urdu and punjabi,sindhi korans are allowed.
5. Ban following words: jihad, kufr, Kashmir, palestine, chechnya.
That`s a start.
#10 Posted by teshah on May 31, 2004 7:15:45 pm
Bulle Shah had said:
Masjid dha de, mandir dha de, dha de, jo kujh dhenda
Ik bande da dil nah dhaween, rab dillan wich rehnda
This is humanism par excellence. But what is taught in the mad-rassas is hatred and bigotry in the name of Islam. They are destroying mosques but only to kill innocent human beings whom they call `kafirs`. The only way to stop this carnage is to close these terrorist factories or modernize and humanize their crriculum. But who can do that? These madrissas are producing Firouns and Yazids in thousands but the teaching which produces Musa and Hussain is non existent. So, dumma dum mast Qalandar! Khuda ki khudai khatam, nabi ki nabuwat khatam, musalman ki musalmani khatam, insan ki insaniat khatam, firouny mulla ki mulla gardi zinda baad. Yih he hamara Pakland.
Masjid dha de, mandir dha de, dha de, jo kujh dhenda
Ik bande da dil nah dhaween, rab dillan wich rehnda
This is humanism par excellence. But what is taught in the mad-rassas is hatred and bigotry in the name of Islam. They are destroying mosques but only to kill innocent human beings whom they call `kafirs`. The only way to stop this carnage is to close these terrorist factories or modernize and humanize their crriculum. But who can do that? These madrissas are producing Firouns and Yazids in thousands but the teaching which produces Musa and Hussain is non existent. So, dumma dum mast Qalandar! Khuda ki khudai khatam, nabi ki nabuwat khatam, musalman ki musalmani khatam, insan ki insaniat khatam, firouny mulla ki mulla gardi zinda baad. Yih he hamara Pakland.
#11 Posted by cipram on May 31, 2004 7:15:45 pm
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#12 Posted by ZahraJ on May 31, 2004 8:33:53 pm
The following is what the world reads about Pakistan day in and day out. Everything is about destruction. This is not only madrissa thinking. This is the dare devilishness to think of yourself superior to any prevalent law and order. In civilized countries you are penalized to be on the road with a cell phone while driving. Users start buying hands-free equipment to avoid any penalty. Why? By avoiding the penalty, it`s not that the user saves his/her money. It`s because the penalty is a reminder that life is way too precious and should not be taken for a ride. And, it`s not the life of the cell phone user only. The life of those who are on the same road in different vehicles is equally precious. Sense of responsibility is inculcated as soon as you are on the road. In countries like Pakistan, life is not precious to begin with and it`s always taken for a ride. You do not need any algorithms to determine the why(s) and the what(s). The writing is very much on the wall. It`s just the matter of reading it for god`s sake.
This week one of my friends` old neigbors in Islamabad lost their young son (27-28year old) in kidnapping for ransom. The neighbor`s son had just returned from UK after his higher studies and somehow got into the hands of mentally disturbed people who made sure to prove their true mettle. And, they did. He was killed and his family is left for mourning.
Bomb Blast in Pakistan Mosque Kills 16
Mon May 31, 9:18 PM
KARACHI, Pakistan - A bomb ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi during evening prayers Monday, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 others. A top Pakistani official said the blast could be revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
Hundreds of Shiite youths rioted after the explosion at the Imam Bargah Ali Raza mosque, which came a day after unidentified gunmen killed the Nazamuddin Shamzai.
The rioters burned shops and vehicles and blocked highways and the main rail line. Provincial police chief Kamal Shah said two men trying to steal an ambulance were shot and killed. Seven others were injured when police opened fire to disperse the crowd.
The explosion was the latest in a series of terror attacks in Pakistan`s largest city. It was not clear yet if it was the work of a suicide bomber.
Interior Ministry spokesman Abdur Rauf Chaudhry told The Associated Press that the bombing ``could be a reaction to`` Shamzai`s slaying, which triggered riots Sunday across this eastern city and stoked fears of more sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shiites.
The blast cracked walls, destroyed an inner office and badly damaged a room where people wash up before praying at the mosque, which is located near the city center on Karachi`s main highway.
It also shattered windows in a tall building opposite the mosque, leaving shards of glass on the asphalt.
Karachi police chief Asad Ashraf Malik said at least 16 people were killed and 38 injured. He said a body retrieved from the scene was being examined to determine whether it was that of a suicide bomber.
``We have not reached any conclusion yet,`` he said. An investigator at the scene also said there did not appear to be a crater, which suggested a suicide bombing.
A worshipper inside the mosque, Ghulam Ali, said he thought a bomb had been thrown inside from a passing car. He described hearing a thud and seeing a speeding car drive away before the blast.
The mosque then filled with smoke and people inside ran around in panic, said Ali, who was bleeding from his wounds.
``I heard a big explosion, followed by flames from the front of the mosque. And I saw two injured people falling on the road, bleeding, and one had no legs,`` said Ghulam Hussain, a fruit vendor.
Ali Abbas, a young worshipper, tried to push people out of the area, afraid an abandoned bag inside the mosque contained another bomb. Bomb disposal experts later took the bag away.
Saqlain Raza, a worshipper who was parking his motorcycle outside when the blast occurred, estimated that 30-35 people were inside the mosque at the time.
``One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach,`` he said. ``I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital.``
Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said President Gen. Pervez Musharraf expressed grief over the killings and would take an ``important step`` in response. He did not elaborate.
Karachi - Pakistan`s largest city of 14 million people and the country`s commercial center - has been the scene of recent sectarian violence and terrorist attacks. Those include two car bombings near the U.S. Consul`s residence last week and a May 7 suicide bombing at a Shiite Muslim mosque that killed 20 people.
Police have formed a special task force to investigate the slaying of Shamzai, a cleric in his 70s who had been a strong supporter of the former Taliban regime in neighboring Afghanistan and had met al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden.
Witnesses said his assassins included as many as six gunmen riding in two cars and a motorcycle. They sprayed Shamzai`s car with bullets Sunday morning, killing him and wounding one of his sons, a nephew, a driver and a police bodyguard.
Much of Karachi`s violence is blamed on Islamic militants, angered by Musharraf`s support for the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism in Afghanistan, but clashes between rival Sunni and Shiite Muslims are also common.
This week one of my friends` old neigbors in Islamabad lost their young son (27-28year old) in kidnapping for ransom. The neighbor`s son had just returned from UK after his higher studies and somehow got into the hands of mentally disturbed people who made sure to prove their true mettle. And, they did. He was killed and his family is left for mourning.
Bomb Blast in Pakistan Mosque Kills 16
Mon May 31, 9:18 PM
KARACHI, Pakistan - A bomb ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi during evening prayers Monday, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 others. A top Pakistani official said the blast could be revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
Hundreds of Shiite youths rioted after the explosion at the Imam Bargah Ali Raza mosque, which came a day after unidentified gunmen killed the Nazamuddin Shamzai.
The rioters burned shops and vehicles and blocked highways and the main rail line. Provincial police chief Kamal Shah said two men trying to steal an ambulance were shot and killed. Seven others were injured when police opened fire to disperse the crowd.
The explosion was the latest in a series of terror attacks in Pakistan`s largest city. It was not clear yet if it was the work of a suicide bomber.
Interior Ministry spokesman Abdur Rauf Chaudhry told The Associated Press that the bombing ``could be a reaction to`` Shamzai`s slaying, which triggered riots Sunday across this eastern city and stoked fears of more sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shiites.
The blast cracked walls, destroyed an inner office and badly damaged a room where people wash up before praying at the mosque, which is located near the city center on Karachi`s main highway.
It also shattered windows in a tall building opposite the mosque, leaving shards of glass on the asphalt.
Karachi police chief Asad Ashraf Malik said at least 16 people were killed and 38 injured. He said a body retrieved from the scene was being examined to determine whether it was that of a suicide bomber.
``We have not reached any conclusion yet,`` he said. An investigator at the scene also said there did not appear to be a crater, which suggested a suicide bombing.
A worshipper inside the mosque, Ghulam Ali, said he thought a bomb had been thrown inside from a passing car. He described hearing a thud and seeing a speeding car drive away before the blast.
The mosque then filled with smoke and people inside ran around in panic, said Ali, who was bleeding from his wounds.
``I heard a big explosion, followed by flames from the front of the mosque. And I saw two injured people falling on the road, bleeding, and one had no legs,`` said Ghulam Hussain, a fruit vendor.
Ali Abbas, a young worshipper, tried to push people out of the area, afraid an abandoned bag inside the mosque contained another bomb. Bomb disposal experts later took the bag away.
Saqlain Raza, a worshipper who was parking his motorcycle outside when the blast occurred, estimated that 30-35 people were inside the mosque at the time.
``One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach,`` he said. ``I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital.``
Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said President Gen. Pervez Musharraf expressed grief over the killings and would take an ``important step`` in response. He did not elaborate.
Karachi - Pakistan`s largest city of 14 million people and the country`s commercial center - has been the scene of recent sectarian violence and terrorist attacks. Those include two car bombings near the U.S. Consul`s residence last week and a May 7 suicide bombing at a Shiite Muslim mosque that killed 20 people.
Police have formed a special task force to investigate the slaying of Shamzai, a cleric in his 70s who had been a strong supporter of the former Taliban regime in neighboring Afghanistan and had met al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden.
Witnesses said his assassins included as many as six gunmen riding in two cars and a motorcycle. They sprayed Shamzai`s car with bullets Sunday morning, killing him and wounding one of his sons, a nephew, a driver and a police bodyguard.
Much of Karachi`s violence is blamed on Islamic militants, angered by Musharraf`s support for the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism in Afghanistan, but clashes between rival Sunni and Shiite Muslims are also common.
#13 Posted by tintingem on May 31, 2004 9:56:55 pm
My prediction about the vicious cycle seems to have come true.
#1-HP:
when i wrote this article, it was in protest of the behaviour of the mullahs over the detah of their spiritual leader. you have mistaken my expression here. i do not consider shamzai to be much of a spiritual leader or otherwise. but these men did so and that is why much destruction took place in Karachi. who will stop these men? who will stop these hooligans from destroying our peace in the name of Islam? and who will stop these men from killing innocent Shias, praying in a mosque. Samzai was not worth this tribute. it makes you wonder where he would be now? rotting in hell?
#8-feedback:
you don`t know what scary is. scary is when your brother, father, son or husband goes to a mosque and never returns cause a bomb blasts exploded and he was shred to pieces. that`s scary.
#5-Tmk:
General Musharraf has no vision. he is a coward and a hypocrite. he doesn`t have the balls to eliminate all madrassahs that have become a den for breeding sectarian elements. infact, it was he, who ran around, begging the mullahs to lend his puppet govt support so that he could rule-undisputed. what can you expect from a man who waged a war on India without any cause or purpose (kargil), killing innocent soldiers and then had the audacity to become a hero in agra?
#4-Syd:
i agree-all i or you can do is write. but something is better than nothing. the pen is mightier than the sword.
#1-HP:
when i wrote this article, it was in protest of the behaviour of the mullahs over the detah of their spiritual leader. you have mistaken my expression here. i do not consider shamzai to be much of a spiritual leader or otherwise. but these men did so and that is why much destruction took place in Karachi. who will stop these men? who will stop these hooligans from destroying our peace in the name of Islam? and who will stop these men from killing innocent Shias, praying in a mosque. Samzai was not worth this tribute. it makes you wonder where he would be now? rotting in hell?
#8-feedback:
you don`t know what scary is. scary is when your brother, father, son or husband goes to a mosque and never returns cause a bomb blasts exploded and he was shred to pieces. that`s scary.
#5-Tmk:
General Musharraf has no vision. he is a coward and a hypocrite. he doesn`t have the balls to eliminate all madrassahs that have become a den for breeding sectarian elements. infact, it was he, who ran around, begging the mullahs to lend his puppet govt support so that he could rule-undisputed. what can you expect from a man who waged a war on India without any cause or purpose (kargil), killing innocent soldiers and then had the audacity to become a hero in agra?
#4-Syd:
i agree-all i or you can do is write. but something is better than nothing. the pen is mightier than the sword.
#14 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on June 1, 2004 4:32:18 am
unfortunately all people do is talk -- talk its so bad, talk how depressing everything is and talk how much they hate mullahs -- not that i would ever defend musharraf but blaming him for not acting is no worse than those people who cry hoarse about how bad things have become and do nothing -- a bomb happens in madrid and millions of people come out on the street to show their disapproval -- who will do that here in pakistan ?
#15 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on June 1, 2004 4:33:34 am
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#16 Posted by Urstruly on June 1, 2004 6:44:43 am
Omar # 14
Please do not blame Pakistanis. People of Pakistan from the day one warned Mushraf and fauji janta not to lie down in front of US completely. But did he and his goons listen to the voice of people. No. And since then people have been trying to kill him. So what is happening now is the effect and not the cause. Senator Javed Hashmi correctly pointed out to faujis that young officers in Army will not tolerate the unconditional surrender of top brass in front of US. Did anyone listento him. No. And now yesterday Musharaf was whining that sveral young officers will be tried for attempted murder on him. Moreover, he said that army will be purged of the people who have any association with anything remotely religious. It will definitely make the things worst. Do you think that the people who will be `purged` will just quietly go purged? Its anybody`s guess. The point is that this stupid fukk has become the biggest security risk towards the integrity and security of Pakistan. Having absolutely no support among the masses he wouldn`t let anyone, including his own quislings to approach people and solidify their support against war on terrorism. The fact of the matter is that people are totally averse to the concept of `war on terrorism`. You cannot challenge the collective wisdom of people. No one can. People know very well that unless the big satan mends its ways the scourge of terrorism will be there to thrive.
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