Textbook Questions
Omar R Quraishi June 9, 2004
#168 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on August 10, 2004 9:23:12 am
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#167 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on June 24, 2004 6:30:03 am
harish jee: ``#166 by harish_hyd on June 23, 2004 6:01am PT
nb and sadna, our man thinks that by pointing out the problems in India, he`s solved Pakistan`s problems. Bravo, the assistant editor!`` -- hahah dude you`re funny or what -- do u think we come to chowk to solve our country`s problems -- err no -- i dont think pakistans problems will be solved by doing that but paki bashers like yourself and others will know that problems exist in your own country too :)
sadna:``#165 by sadna on June 21, 2004 9:34am PT
Forget about perspectives, for a journalist, you are remarkably uninterested in facts. Stating facts relevant to topic being discussed can not be called Paki-bashing, esp. given that the vast majority of Pakistanis had nothing to do with those facts. `` --
wow , now i wonder shrimati sadna jee if you ever pointed out the relevance of a post to people like arjun or jay or your other fellow paki bashers in arms
nb and sadna, our man thinks that by pointing out the problems in India, he`s solved Pakistan`s problems. Bravo, the assistant editor!`` -- hahah dude you`re funny or what -- do u think we come to chowk to solve our country`s problems -- err no -- i dont think pakistans problems will be solved by doing that but paki bashers like yourself and others will know that problems exist in your own country too :)
sadna:``#165 by sadna on June 21, 2004 9:34am PT
Forget about perspectives, for a journalist, you are remarkably uninterested in facts. Stating facts relevant to topic being discussed can not be called Paki-bashing, esp. given that the vast majority of Pakistanis had nothing to do with those facts. `` --
wow , now i wonder shrimati sadna jee if you ever pointed out the relevance of a post to people like arjun or jay or your other fellow paki bashers in arms
#166 Posted by harish_hyd on June 23, 2004 6:01:57 am
nb and sadna,
Our man thinks that by pointing out the problems in India, he`s solved Pakistan`s problems. Bravo, the assistant editor!
Our man thinks that by pointing out the problems in India, he`s solved Pakistan`s problems. Bravo, the assistant editor!
#165 Posted by sadna on June 21, 2004 9:34:30 am
Forget about perspectives, for a journalist, you are remarkably uninterested in facts. Stating facts relevant to topic being discussed can not be called Paki-bashing, esp. given that the vast majority of Pakistanis had nothing to do with those facts.
#164 Posted by nb on June 21, 2004 6:57:54 am
Not yawning so much that he can`t write even if he has nothing to say.
hmm....
hmm....
#163 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on June 21, 2004 6:45:34 am
nb: ``I see your point Sadna....only Omar knows our innermost thoughts. Scary stuff, really. So the only people in India who are not RSS activists are Praful Bidwai and Dileep Padgaonkar? Didn`t discredit Ayaz Amir, Omar. If he`s going to appear on Aussie TV, people will see him-I thought that was the idea? Look, you complain about people being overly interested in Pakistan. Here, I`m not interested enough to go on Pakistani news sites.( I guess you would like to say that unless you read Dawn, you can`t really know what you`re talking about, wrt India, Pakistan, Iraq, the US, etc. Maybe I should log onto Dawn for my local weather forecast too). And you have a problem with that too? Which is it?``
-- yawn
plz read my posting #157 again (that is if u want to) -- actually i dont complain about people being overly interested in pakistan at all but what i do say is that they lack a perspective and which is that is south asia has immense problems and that pakistan doesnt have 98 per cent of them, which is what the paki bashers here seem to think -- dont know why that is so difficult to figure out (my opinion that is, which by the way u dont have to agree with, but then again look at what the paki bashers post) -- they are called paki bashers for a reason nb -- see your dear friend shrimati sadna jee just doesnt get it (#161 is proof) -- the point isnt that pakistan is very good and that nothing bad happens here but that hey look at india too and u will find it isnt all hunky dory -- but i understand because people like sadna are too obsessed or in a permanent anti pakistan mode and THATS WHY its okay to label them paki bashers ....
nb: ``You started with the dears, which I thought was very Indian, must be South Asian.`` -- errr its quite commonly used in pakistan too, more than most indians here would tend to think --
nb: ``Omar, if you have a problem with the language paki bashers use, please tell them or raise it with chowk. I am not a municipal safai karamchari to go about cleaning up everything. If I see a post that is objectionable, I will mention it. I refuse to take responsibility for the language of a whole group of people. Ahmed Bilal seems like a really nice guy, but is still kind of weird about India. That is what I mean when I said all of you are deluded when it comes to India. Maybe that`s hyperbole and some of you only have overvalued ideas. `` -- nb if i have a problem i can state it in my posts which i do all the time -- never asked u to anything about it by the way --
nb: ``The highest suicide rates are in Scandinavian countries and Finland, not generally known for their poverty-so I`m not sure what exactly your point is there`` -- my point, dear, is tha if pakistan has problems then india has some of its own too, and pretty big ones, and if pakistani interactors wish to discuss them here it shouldnt invite too much abuse or derision -- :)
-- yawn
plz read my posting #157 again (that is if u want to) -- actually i dont complain about people being overly interested in pakistan at all but what i do say is that they lack a perspective and which is that is south asia has immense problems and that pakistan doesnt have 98 per cent of them, which is what the paki bashers here seem to think -- dont know why that is so difficult to figure out (my opinion that is, which by the way u dont have to agree with, but then again look at what the paki bashers post) -- they are called paki bashers for a reason nb -- see your dear friend shrimati sadna jee just doesnt get it (#161 is proof) -- the point isnt that pakistan is very good and that nothing bad happens here but that hey look at india too and u will find it isnt all hunky dory -- but i understand because people like sadna are too obsessed or in a permanent anti pakistan mode and THATS WHY its okay to label them paki bashers ....
nb: ``You started with the dears, which I thought was very Indian, must be South Asian.`` -- errr its quite commonly used in pakistan too, more than most indians here would tend to think --
nb: ``Omar, if you have a problem with the language paki bashers use, please tell them or raise it with chowk. I am not a municipal safai karamchari to go about cleaning up everything. If I see a post that is objectionable, I will mention it. I refuse to take responsibility for the language of a whole group of people. Ahmed Bilal seems like a really nice guy, but is still kind of weird about India. That is what I mean when I said all of you are deluded when it comes to India. Maybe that`s hyperbole and some of you only have overvalued ideas. `` -- nb if i have a problem i can state it in my posts which i do all the time -- never asked u to anything about it by the way --
nb: ``The highest suicide rates are in Scandinavian countries and Finland, not generally known for their poverty-so I`m not sure what exactly your point is there`` -- my point, dear, is tha if pakistan has problems then india has some of its own too, and pretty big ones, and if pakistani interactors wish to discuss them here it shouldnt invite too much abuse or derision -- :)
#162 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on June 21, 2004 6:44:46 am
wonder what the paki-bashers will say about this:
BJP stands by Modi
NEW DELHI, June 20: India`s opposition Hindu nationalists on Sunday shot down renewed calls to dismiss Gujarat`s hardline leader, who is accused of abetting anti-Muslim violence in the western state.
``There is no proposal to change the leadership of Gujarat at this juncture,`` Venkaiah Naidu, president of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), told reporters after a meeting of top party leaders in New Delhi.
Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had come under fresh scrutiny after police said they gunned down four Muslims, including a 19-year-old woman, last Tuesday because they allegedly plotted to assassinate the state leader.
India`s ruling Congress party has suggested that the shootout was a set-up to build sympathy for Modi and demanded an impartial probe. Former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, breaking with his party`s longstanding backing of Modi, said last week that a BJP national meeting set to start on Tuesday in Mumbai would consider replacing the Gujarat leader.
Vajpayee also said for the first time that anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat, which left 2,000 people dead in 2002, contributed to the BJP`s upset election defeat in April-May elections.
But Vajpayee`s remarks led hardliners to rally around Modi, who had been facing calls for his resignation even from some BJP lawmakers in Gujarat. Vajpayee took part in Sunday`s BJP meeting, which was seen as an attempt to clear up intra-party disputes instead of airing them publicly at the Mumbai convention. -AFP
BJP stands by Modi
NEW DELHI, June 20: India`s opposition Hindu nationalists on Sunday shot down renewed calls to dismiss Gujarat`s hardline leader, who is accused of abetting anti-Muslim violence in the western state.
``There is no proposal to change the leadership of Gujarat at this juncture,`` Venkaiah Naidu, president of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), told reporters after a meeting of top party leaders in New Delhi.
Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had come under fresh scrutiny after police said they gunned down four Muslims, including a 19-year-old woman, last Tuesday because they allegedly plotted to assassinate the state leader.
India`s ruling Congress party has suggested that the shootout was a set-up to build sympathy for Modi and demanded an impartial probe. Former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, breaking with his party`s longstanding backing of Modi, said last week that a BJP national meeting set to start on Tuesday in Mumbai would consider replacing the Gujarat leader.
Vajpayee also said for the first time that anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat, which left 2,000 people dead in 2002, contributed to the BJP`s upset election defeat in April-May elections.
But Vajpayee`s remarks led hardliners to rally around Modi, who had been facing calls for his resignation even from some BJP lawmakers in Gujarat. Vajpayee took part in Sunday`s BJP meeting, which was seen as an attempt to clear up intra-party disputes instead of airing them publicly at the Mumbai convention. -AFP
#161 Posted by nb on June 19, 2004 8:04:35 pm
Omar, you`re denying previous posts. I know you`re a busy man, but still..it`s in black and white, but I can`t be bothered to go digging. You started with the dears, which I thought was very Indian, must be South Asian.
See you then, because you`ve run out of things to say-admittedly there weren`t a lot to start with.
See you then, because you`ve run out of things to say-admittedly there weren`t a lot to start with.
#160 Posted by sadna on June 19, 2004 8:50:32 am
omar_r_quraishi #157
I agree to disagree, but after being more explicit than in my last post.
Here is an excerpt from an interview with Ahmed Rashid which Dawn itself published in July 2003.
http://www.nirajweb.net/mt/niraj/archives/001682.html
Q. Why anti-Pakistan sentiments run so high in Afghanistan?
A. There was a cell within the intelligence agency not long ago that was working to justify Pakistan`s support to the Taliban in an academic and intellectual sense. It had retired brigadiers and colonels justifying the Taliban rule: that this was the norm - the Afghans were always brutal to women, the Afghans have always been indulging in sectarian and ethnic conflicts, the Taliban behaviour is the normal Afghan behaviour!
We, in fact, re-wrote Afghan history for the Afghans. At several instances, these retired officers had taken words from my writing to support their policies. I had written that Dostum was a brute. So, to them, it meant that all Uzbeks in Afghanistan were brute and, thus, what the Taliban did to the Uzbeks in Mazar-i-Sharif was justified. I was quite horrified by this.
The re-writing of the history in the last six years by the military and the establishment in Pakistan has put us at odds with the Afghan nation for many years to come. They will not forgive us easily. Afghans do not trust Pakistan - the government, the ISI or the foreign office. And even today, we are not prepared to offer any kind of apology to them. How would we feel if Indians start re-writing our history? ..``
--
What the Dawn interview did not reveal was that it wasn`t only Uzbeks, it was mostly Hazara Shia civilians massacred in targetted killings in Mazar-i-Sharif in August 1998. It wasn`t only in Mazar-i-Sharif that Hazara Shia and other civilians were massacred, civilians were massacred in Bamiyan and other places as well.
And it wasn`t only Afghan Taliban who killed them, thousands of their Pakistani jihadis colleagues also participated, and moreover some of those Taliban offensives were backed with Pakistani military help.
The specifics of these incidents have been known and documented well enough for western human rights agencies to warn Colin Powell in 2001 that there would be retaliatory massacres of retreating Taliban during the US war. And such retaliations did indeed happen as predicted.
The cycle of retaliation is also being perpetuated on Pakistani soil, on innocent Pakistanis. And after every such episode, every religious, political or military leader who says piously `no Pakistani no Muslim can do such things` is lying through his teeth and knows it.
Pakistani military brass and their jihadi colleagues do not want to talk of their role in the 1998 or other sectarian and ethnic massacres of civilians.
But until jihad policy supporters, the leaders of jihadi militias and military brass are confronted with the Afghan excesses of their jihad policy, changing the emphasis on armed jihad in public life and education can not be accomplished.
I agree to disagree, but after being more explicit than in my last post.
Here is an excerpt from an interview with Ahmed Rashid which Dawn itself published in July 2003.
http://www.nirajweb.net/mt/niraj/archives/001682.html
Q. Why anti-Pakistan sentiments run so high in Afghanistan?
A. There was a cell within the intelligence agency not long ago that was working to justify Pakistan`s support to the Taliban in an academic and intellectual sense. It had retired brigadiers and colonels justifying the Taliban rule: that this was the norm - the Afghans were always brutal to women, the Afghans have always been indulging in sectarian and ethnic conflicts, the Taliban behaviour is the normal Afghan behaviour!
We, in fact, re-wrote Afghan history for the Afghans. At several instances, these retired officers had taken words from my writing to support their policies. I had written that Dostum was a brute. So, to them, it meant that all Uzbeks in Afghanistan were brute and, thus, what the Taliban did to the Uzbeks in Mazar-i-Sharif was justified. I was quite horrified by this.
The re-writing of the history in the last six years by the military and the establishment in Pakistan has put us at odds with the Afghan nation for many years to come. They will not forgive us easily. Afghans do not trust Pakistan - the government, the ISI or the foreign office. And even today, we are not prepared to offer any kind of apology to them. How would we feel if Indians start re-writing our history? ..``
--
What the Dawn interview did not reveal was that it wasn`t only Uzbeks, it was mostly Hazara Shia civilians massacred in targetted killings in Mazar-i-Sharif in August 1998. It wasn`t only in Mazar-i-Sharif that Hazara Shia and other civilians were massacred, civilians were massacred in Bamiyan and other places as well.
And it wasn`t only Afghan Taliban who killed them, thousands of their Pakistani jihadis colleagues also participated, and moreover some of those Taliban offensives were backed with Pakistani military help.
The specifics of these incidents have been known and documented well enough for western human rights agencies to warn Colin Powell in 2001 that there would be retaliatory massacres of retreating Taliban during the US war. And such retaliations did indeed happen as predicted.
The cycle of retaliation is also being perpetuated on Pakistani soil, on innocent Pakistanis. And after every such episode, every religious, political or military leader who says piously `no Pakistani no Muslim can do such things` is lying through his teeth and knows it.
Pakistani military brass and their jihadi colleagues do not want to talk of their role in the 1998 or other sectarian and ethnic massacres of civilians.
But until jihad policy supporters, the leaders of jihadi militias and military brass are confronted with the Afghan excesses of their jihad policy, changing the emphasis on armed jihad in public life and education can not be accomplished.
#159 Posted by nb on June 19, 2004 7:48:53 am
I see your point Sadna....only Omar knows our innermost thoughts. Scary stuff, really. So the only people in India who are not RSS activists are Praful Bidwai and Dileep Padgaonkar?
Didn`t discredit Ayaz Amir, Omar. If he`s going to appear on Aussie TV, people will see him-I thought that was the idea? Look, you complain about people being overly interested in Pakistan. Here, I`m not interested enough to go on Pakistani news sites.( I guess you would like to say that unless you read Dawn, you can`t really know what you`re talking about, wrt India, Pakistan, Iraq, the US, etc. Maybe I should log onto Dawn for my local weather forecast too). And you have a problem with that too? Which is it?
Didn`t discredit Ayaz Amir, Omar. If he`s going to appear on Aussie TV, people will see him-I thought that was the idea? Look, you complain about people being overly interested in Pakistan. Here, I`m not interested enough to go on Pakistani news sites.( I guess you would like to say that unless you read Dawn, you can`t really know what you`re talking about, wrt India, Pakistan, Iraq, the US, etc. Maybe I should log onto Dawn for my local weather forecast too). And you have a problem with that too? Which is it?
#158 Posted by nb on June 19, 2004 7:48:53 am
Omar, if you have a problem with the language paki bashers use, please tell them or raise it with chowk. I am not a municipal safai karamchari to go about cleaning up everything. If I see a post that is objectionable, I will mention it. I refuse to take responsibility for the language of a whole group of people.
Ahmed Bilal seems like a really nice guy, but is still kind of weird about India. That is what I mean when I said all of you are deluded when it comes to India. Maybe that`s hyperbole and some of you only have overvalued ideas.
I noted your concern on another board for the AP farmers. Very kind of you, thought I might add to your knowledge. The highest suicide rates are in Scandinavian countries and Finland, not generally known for their poverty-so I`m not sure what exactly your point is there. Alcohol probably has something to do with it, too, but people feeling insecure in their families or societies are more likely to think of suicide, generally, than people facing bankruptcy.Any sensible CM would just add Zoloft to the free rice distributed.
As usual, you`re welcome. Feel free to call again.
Ahmed Bilal seems like a really nice guy, but is still kind of weird about India. That is what I mean when I said all of you are deluded when it comes to India. Maybe that`s hyperbole and some of you only have overvalued ideas.
I noted your concern on another board for the AP farmers. Very kind of you, thought I might add to your knowledge. The highest suicide rates are in Scandinavian countries and Finland, not generally known for their poverty-so I`m not sure what exactly your point is there. Alcohol probably has something to do with it, too, but people feeling insecure in their families or societies are more likely to think of suicide, generally, than people facing bankruptcy.Any sensible CM would just add Zoloft to the free rice distributed.
As usual, you`re welcome. Feel free to call again.
#157 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on June 19, 2004 7:47:53 am
nb: ``Omar, since you are so concerned about my getting information about Pakistan from Australian sources`` -- whatever gave u that idea NB ?
and nb: ``Sorry, I`m not interested in having the whole world know about me, sweetheart.` -- definitely not yours dah ling :)
sadna: ``No it is not clarified.`` -- actually i think it is -- and what we have on that shrimati sadna jee is a difference of opinion -- hope u can deal with it :)
veeresh sahib: ``but you, of course, are from a different generation, more aggression in lieu of substance.`` -- and for you shri veeresh jee, may i dare to say `more duplicity and malevolence in place of substance` :) -- veeresh jee here`s some advice for you -- if u want to still pretend to be a friend of pakistan and pakistanis then u have to (to borrow an apt phrase from hellbound) hide the `latent` hate that u have for us and our country somehow -- because u know there`s so much of it that it comes out every now and then -- :)
nb: ``No, I don`t worry what an assistant editor in Pakistan thinks-I mean, when I don`t worry what the Albanians think.... I`ve already told you that when I live in Australia, I can`t have an idea of what Saudi TV says. I know I should be watching al-Arabiya instead, but don`t have the time for satellite TV. Well, you say I don`t get it-who`s got the prejudged mould there? Or is it all right for you to have a prejudged mould but not me?
Sorry, I`m not interested in having the whole world know about me, sweetheart. This is the way it is on internet chat rooms. What do you think I do, btw, when I`m not at the shakha(are there any in Oz)? `` -- nb dah ling i am not interested in what u think or whether u have an idea or not about saudi tv , i only said coz u mentioned it in your last post about assistant editors claiming to know what others think -- i had said or implied no such thing but i suppose this is a hallmark for most interactors on chowk -- :)
and nb: ``Sorry, I`m not interested in having the whole world know about me, sweetheart.` -- definitely not yours dah ling :)
sadna: ``No it is not clarified.`` -- actually i think it is -- and what we have on that shrimati sadna jee is a difference of opinion -- hope u can deal with it :)
veeresh sahib: ``but you, of course, are from a different generation, more aggression in lieu of substance.`` -- and for you shri veeresh jee, may i dare to say `more duplicity and malevolence in place of substance` :) -- veeresh jee here`s some advice for you -- if u want to still pretend to be a friend of pakistan and pakistanis then u have to (to borrow an apt phrase from hellbound) hide the `latent` hate that u have for us and our country somehow -- because u know there`s so much of it that it comes out every now and then -- :)
nb: ``No, I don`t worry what an assistant editor in Pakistan thinks-I mean, when I don`t worry what the Albanians think.... I`ve already told you that when I live in Australia, I can`t have an idea of what Saudi TV says. I know I should be watching al-Arabiya instead, but don`t have the time for satellite TV. Well, you say I don`t get it-who`s got the prejudged mould there? Or is it all right for you to have a prejudged mould but not me?
Sorry, I`m not interested in having the whole world know about me, sweetheart. This is the way it is on internet chat rooms. What do you think I do, btw, when I`m not at the shakha(are there any in Oz)? `` -- nb dah ling i am not interested in what u think or whether u have an idea or not about saudi tv , i only said coz u mentioned it in your last post about assistant editors claiming to know what others think -- i had said or implied no such thing but i suppose this is a hallmark for most interactors on chowk -- :)
#156 Posted by nb on June 18, 2004 10:49:01 pm
Omar, since you are so concerned about my getting information about Pakistan from Australian sources, I would like to tell you about an article in today`s SMH on Pakistani actors, subtitled from harlots to starlets. Pretty interesting. I really admire this woman called Gauhar who says she`s not Mushy`s mistress (good Muslims have mistresses?) because ``he`s a short man who wears polyester. What more can I say?`` I have no idea about her otherwise, but more power to free-thinking women like that everywhere!!
#155 Posted by sadna on June 18, 2004 10:49:01 pm
nb #153
If you are an Indian and do not agree with a Pakistan who thinks of himself/herself as liberal, you are an RSS activist. Simble definition.
If you are an Indian and do not agree with a Pakistan who thinks of himself/herself as liberal, you are an RSS activist. Simble definition.
#154 Posted by AhmadBilal on June 18, 2004 10:49:01 pm
#150 by veeresh
Veeresh, the rumors are right. Add Jim Morrison, John Lennon and Kurt Cobain to the list as well. All of them are very much alive in CD players of their fans, and they keep inspiring many to pick up guitars and rock. Thanks.
Veeresh, the rumors are right. Add Jim Morrison, John Lennon and Kurt Cobain to the list as well. All of them are very much alive in CD players of their fans, and they keep inspiring many to pick up guitars and rock. Thanks.
#153 Posted by nb on June 18, 2004 7:52:06 pm
Omar,
No, I don`t worry what an assistant editor in Pakistan thinks-I mean, when I don`t worry what the Albanians think....
I`ve already told you that when I live in Australia, I can`t have an idea of what Saudi TV says. I know I should be watching al-Arabiya instead, but don`t have the time for satellite TV.
Well, you say I don`t get it-who`s got the prejudged mould there? Or is it all right for you to have a prejudged mould but not me?
Sorry, I`m not interested in having the whole world know about me, sweetheart. This is the way it is on internet chat rooms. What do you think I do, btw, when I`m not at the shakha(are there any in Oz)?
No, I don`t worry what an assistant editor in Pakistan thinks-I mean, when I don`t worry what the Albanians think....
I`ve already told you that when I live in Australia, I can`t have an idea of what Saudi TV says. I know I should be watching al-Arabiya instead, but don`t have the time for satellite TV.
Well, you say I don`t get it-who`s got the prejudged mould there? Or is it all right for you to have a prejudged mould but not me?
Sorry, I`m not interested in having the whole world know about me, sweetheart. This is the way it is on internet chat rooms. What do you think I do, btw, when I`m not at the shakha(are there any in Oz)?
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