Textbook Questions

I must mention I greatly respect and admire Khaled Ahmed for his fearless writings on matters jihadi.

omar_r_quraishi #148
No it is not clarified.
The Zia period is long gone. However sterling the press`s role in that period, unfortunately, at that time not only a military dictator like Zia but also the might of the US fighting the Cold War had to be confronted, correct? Is that the situation now ?

Until public opinion is mobilised enough to effect a change in the emphasis on jihad in education and public life, the press`s job would not be done, assuming the press does want to effect a change.

To effect a real change in public opinion, IMO, the press will have to lead the public to discuss details about specific events in the post-Soviet, specifically Taliban period. Until that context is laid down for public discussion on jiihad, jihad supporters can win the argument solely based on abstract references to Islam, Pakistani nationalism and threat of India, and without having to answer for specific horrific consequences resulting from jihad policy.

But people in high places would prob. not like events in the post Soviet, specifically Taliban period to be discussed. So that is that.

Omar Sahib . . . I am indeed very glad to hear from you that the pop/rock scene in Pakistan is doing very well. The same fact has been brought out so well by Ahmed Bilal, but you, of course, are from a different generation, more aggression in lieu of substance.

So, Bilal, please ignore the next? Thanks, in any case . . .in fact, I have recently heard rumours that Elvis Presley, Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix are all alive, and currently hiding somewhere in the pleasant environs of the Sir Creek area. It is also so evident that Pakistani rock videos are top of mind requirements inside video coaches and video halls, and cinema halls are overflowing with re-runs of Woodstock and The Rose.

veeresh sahib -- so typical of you: ``I am sure Pakistanis knew how to rock, the guys I knew were up there with the best too, but that was the `80s. Those in the Valley and elsewhere, them too. But what about today?`` -- your knowledge of pakistani trucks seems to be as worse as your knowledge of the pakistani music scene these days -- obviously u havent heard of fuzon, noorie, strings, jal, aaroh, ep, haroon, fakhir, falam, hadiqa K, abrarul haq, the mekaal hasan band etc etc, the list is very long veeresh sahib and u probably didnt get to see much music during your extensive pakistani walkabouts -- besides aap kee umar ub yeh thoree hai kay aap yeh cheezain sunain -- dude stick to things u already know about pakistan -- oops that means stick to talking about delhi --

sadna -- i discredited your post for various reasons -- when u guys were called paki bashers 3-4 years ago i obviously wasnt around so dont know what that has to do with my post -- in any case, like i said (and hope uc an read sadna), the pakistani press has been takling about it (the english at least) ever since zia started his so-called islamization policies -- so what happened on chowk is irrelevant -- u asked me if the english press ever brought it up before 2004 and you were told yes it did, as far back as the early 80s when there was military censorship -- i hope this is clarified -- the agent think was a joke, taking a cue from others on chowk -- clearly u cant take jokes from pakistanis well -- as for the maulana and his followers, yes the press does know how strong his `private army` is and that is precisely why i humoured your estimate of his `army`s` strength in my post :)

nb -- dear , using moron i think is much more harmless and less distasteful than some of the language some of the paki bashers frequently use -- and how typical, bringing in where i went to study into the posts -- tch tch -- nb at least i dont hide anything about myself on my profile, why dont u do the same nb -- that way i can at least refer to your educational background too, or lack thereof :)

nb: ``. I have seen Pervez Hoodbhoy on Aussie TV(saying that Mushy had an idea about the nuclear secrets being sold-wow, there`s a surprise-what a rebel), and he once answered an email I sent him in response to an article in outlook. He`s obviously a brilliant physicist, but he doesn`t get it either.`` -- hahaha how kind of u nb -- anyone who doesnt agree with your views or doesnt fit into your prejudged mould `doesnt get it` --

i dont think i ever indicated i claim to know what they think nb but judging by what the paki bashers write on this site, even a little child can tell what kind of people they must be - of course my opinion is based on their posts -- i dont know them personally and i wonder why u thought that i said or implied that i know what anyone thinks -- your posts indicate, to me at least, that u r an RSS sympathizer -- whether you are or not isnt the point and besides u should care what a lowly assistant editor in pakistan thinks about u in any case right -- cowasjee might be pro mush because he might like him as a person but he has been quite anti military in the past -- as for pervez hoodbhoy, seeing him on AUSSIE tv isnt obviously enough -- and ayaz amir writes in dawn and is very critical of the military -- strange how all the names that were given to u were so quickly discredit, though its clear that u either never read their material or never saw them speak except a brief moment on aussie tv and cowasjee briefly on some other channel -- come on nb, u gotta do better than that --

nb: ``As I pointed out to Sadna long ago, yours is a deluded nation, so you`d stand out if you were normal.`` -- wow nb -- condemning a whole nation to the dust bin -- and u claim to be liberal and seem to be soundinglike one -- even i, apparently a big india hater (which im not at all, but rather hate the paki bashers on chowk) would never condemn a whole nation nb -- and i wouldnt want to stoop to your level and ascribe personal traits to u, since (voila!) i dont know u personally -- strange how the paki bashers seem to do that all the time on chowk --

nb:``Interesting you should mention Arundhati.`` -- actually i didnt initially at all , sadna (aka RAW agent) did -- jeez u guys have a habit of misquoting and misreading or what

nb:``The mind boggles that you are apparently the best Pakistan can do when it comes to journalism. `` -- hahahaha -- dont know where you got that from, i never said it and apparently only hellbound seems to have come to my defence -- what readers in pakistan say about what i write is a different story but i dont find them on chowk -- strange NB, very strange -- acha why dont u tell me what your profession is? and dont do a sadna on me

veeresh jee -- the pakistani rock scene is much better than india`s these days -- your movie music scene is ok but the pop bands are nowhere -- and stop with your insinuations already --

#145 by veeresh

Veeresh, one can’t underestimate any artist who is passionate about his/her work. The youngsters of 70’s also had no idea of the impact their music was to have. Some of these young artists are creating great music, so you never know how far their ambitions and talent will take them. In the meantime, enjoy their music. Thanks.

#140
From Afghanistan`s Endless War, Larry Goodson, University of Washington Press, 2001, who also refers to Ahmed Rashid`s `Taliban :Exporting Extremism `.

OK, Bilal Ahmed, I take your word for it, the Paksitani Rock scene is up and running and I do hope that this evolves as a signpost for other art forms in Pakistan too. I sincerely do.

(On another note, however, these youngsters today can never ever hope to come close to the music punched out in the `70s . . .yes?)

Having said that, I would once again go back to my original post (I`ve forgotten the number) where the issue at debate was discrimination against most Muslims by a minority of fundoo Muslims, in Pakistan.

I still think Muslims are highly discriminated against in Pakistan. That needs to be changed. Muslims should be treated equally in Pakistan.

You can`t win, sadna. you can`t be a moron so you`re a RAW agent. One or the other. Sometimes both.

#142 by veeresh

Veeresh, I am talking about today. :) Most of this new wave of Pakistani rock music revolution broke into the mainstream in early 90`s when dedicated music FM radio stations came into play, and it never stopped there. I heard now there are dedicated television music channels emerging as well. The production quality of Pakistani local rock bands is increasingly matching international standards, thanks to brilliant production abilities of people like Mekaal Hasan, who himself is an excellent guitar player. He came up with his first album late last year which was a fusion of rock/jazz and classical. Check out his website http://www.mekaalhasanband.com/. And among the veterans, seven studio albums (excluding live and “best of” albums) later, Junoon are also alive and rocking. Faraz Anwar increased his audience by releasing an album in the USA in 2001 (followed by an album in Pakistan last year). His “Abstract Point of View” was greeted with excellent reviews from US music critics. I order these new albums online from Pakistan every few weeks. You can’t deny the Pakistani rock revolution, so join the chorus. Thanks.

Ahmed Bilal/various . . . on the specific genre of classic rock guitarists in Inda, I would like to think that there is talent from the North East States, the college festival level and the few who I mentioned. But then, subsequently, the money comes from ``pop``, ``movie`` and jingles. I mean, ``Puranee Jeans aur Guitar`` was something on its own strength in India, and most people don`t even know the name of the Pakistani singer/player . . . but ask people about Daler Mehndi`s brother Mika and his guitar antics . . .

I am sure Pakistanis knew how to rock, the guys I knew were up there with the best too, but that was the `80s. Those in the Valley and elsewhere, them too. But what about today?

My comment on discrimination in Pakistan against ``Muslims who like rock music`` was based more on Pakistan as I perceive it today.

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omar_r_quraishi #134

``if u only dug into chowk a bit deeper u would have found an article published in 2000 which talked about the kind of textbooks that pakistani students had to study from in govt schools and how different were those in the private schools -- and that article came in the english language press of pakistan ``

You really do not read well. I referred to that very article in my first post to you on this thread. And clearly the Pakistani press did not do enough because whenever Indians brought up the subject of hate in textbooks on this forum in the last 3-4 years, we were abused as Paki-bashers, though we were merely being factual. It is incredible but even Jay was being factual though he did not know it.

As for calling me an agent, that has been some chowkwallahs` easy(and essentially dishonest) way out of any tight spot. And perhaps even on encountering ordinary VERIFIABLE information, they think they are getting some ``out of this world`` information or perspective, because their own press does not give it to them.


````Fazlur Rehman commands 100,000 armed fighters, he is now your leader of the opposition. 25% of Taliban`s army was composed of Pakistani jihadis.`` -- hahad dont know where u got that 100,000 figure from -- ``

From Afghanistan`s Endless War, Larry Goodson, University of Washington Press, 2001, who also refers to Ahmed Rashid`s `Taliban :Exporting Terrorism`.

He says p161
``Like the ``Arab Afghans`` who returned from the jihad of the 1980s to challenge secular regimes in the Middle East, the Pakistani Taliban wish to apply the lessons they have learned on the battlefields of Afghanistan to Pakistan. There are now estimated to be eighty thousand to one hundred thousand Pakistani Taliban, who are viewed by the JUI and similar organizations as the foot soldiers in a crusade to change Pakistan foreover``


One would think Fazlur Rahman being the leader of the opposition, how many armed fighters` support he commands is of relevance to the press, IF the press is really concerned about the jihadi content in textbooks and civil society.

veeresh

freddy is a balsara (the toothpaste kind) zubin is a mehta and rocks too

Sorry, that should be Crossword in Bombay!

Omar,
Even psychoanalysts don`t claim to know exactly what a person thinks, leave alone an assistant editor of Dawn. I know I`m not an RSS sympathiser-they lost me years ago when at an inter-religious meeting organised by my brother`s school, one of them said piously, the best job for a woman is kitchen, last word in English. I said, what, teaching? He said, no, kitchen, and the Bishop (how could he, he was a lovely man) and an imam both nodded wisely...I left. But importantly, you are entitled to think so if you want, and you will regardless of anything I say. As I pointed out to Sadna long ago, yours is a deluded nation, so you`d stand out if you were normal. The mind boggles that you are apparently the best Pakistan can do when it comes to journalism. I take back all my bad thoughts about Indian journalists.
I have heard of Ayaz Amir-he writes a column for some paper which gets published in outlook sometimes. I have seen Pervez Hoodbhoy on Aussie TV(saying that Mushy had an idea about the nuclear secrets being sold-wow, there`s a surprise-what a rebel), and he once answered an email I sent him in response to an article in outlook. He`s obviously a brilliant physicist, but he doesn`t get it either.
Interesting you should mention Arundhati. I attended the first reading of her book, and someone asked her what he brother felt about it. She got quite annoyed. Not then having read the book (this was a day after it came out) I wondered what was wrong with the questioner, but I got it as soon as I read it. Was anyone here at the Bombay Crossroads that night? Never mind, you have Sidhwa and Suleri. Cheer up.