Textbook Questions

jang, plats8:
I do not like the idea of the politicians revising history books. But if one has to be honest about it, the game was started by the Nehruvians. They were the ones who began sanitizing the textbooks from a Marxist perspective and, I believe, that perspective is still dominant in the textbooks used in West Bengal. When the BJP came to power, they tried to do the same through a process of saffronising education. And now that the secularists are in power, they will most likely tinker with the books again. One wishes that politicians will stop playing ping-pong with the school texts and let the only perspective guiding the teaching of history be truth and objectivity, to the extent possible.

vertex #68

The West Uses the derogatory term ``Muslim world`` because Muslim nations themselves insist on using it.


Indians can do the same in Bollywood, whose patriotic propaganda is most likely far worse due to it`s reach and influence.

Bollywood is in serious need of cleaning up. It is sickening how it bends over backward portraying Muslims as purer than white and Islam as a religion of peace.

doublec #66,

Excuse me ? Jang and I are the same person because we quoted the same text
from Omar`s post, or is it because the time stamps are identical !!! What flavour of
illogic is that ?

p.s: it`s loser, by the way.

#66 by doublec .. you are the double . ;-) (no, plats8 is not me.)

plats, i agree that the saffronizatoin is there. it is restricted to history books, (i.e. no hindu math etc). the hue-and-cry was however way out of proportion and generalizing that its about encouraging hatred against muslims, that is something i dont see. (someone pls give an example). what i see is deleting passages which speculatively claim that hindus ate beef, brahmins were against king ashoka etc. i dont even see ramayan or mahabharat or any of other ancient books introduced as part of studies (perhaps as literature). indians (hindus very much included) are the most ill-informed about these epics, if not for the amar-chitra katha and TV serials, only RSS will keep these epiocs alive and that interpretation is not what we necessarily need. indians should proudly study their own epics, just like in the western world they study illiad by homer. but with the nature of secular political debate, we will continue to allow moral studies and homes illiad to be taught in convent schools, but no serious scholarship (critical peer-reviews etc) of indian epics will ever be possible. that is a shameful.

doublec, #65

Now, maybe the letter`s author has a reason to be all po`d at the textbook, however the idiot refused to identify specific passages which proved his point. Instead, he went on and on about the use of the ``Muslim World``. The Muslim World does indeed exist, at the very least as the amalgam of all Muslim nations. Does it imply unity? NO. Does it imply one nation? NO. The Muslim world is used as the West uses Western World - which is now loosing meaning due to the demise of communism. But alas, the West also recognizes the ``Muslim World``, and is now using it to rejuvenate the use of the term ``Western World``.

It`s one thing to push a shell of an ideology, but even the opponents of it are trying to pass off lame-ass commentary (ooooo, they use the term ``Muslim World``) as some sort of valid criticism... that country is DOOOOMED.

---

Maybe when the Pakis have reformed their educational system to weed out all hate material, then Indians can do the same in Bollywood, whose patriotic propaganda is most likely far worse due to it`s reach and influence.

Jang,

Thanks for the NCERT link. I just went through the list of deletions there, and noticed
a clear pattern of cleansing (saffronising, if one wishes) evident. Thank god that
smug idiot couldn`t even retain his seat in Allahabad.

This crap is really getting out of hand.

Read below a letter in today`s DAWN.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/06/11/letted.htm


Syllabus and Islamic themes

I was surprised to see the Social Studies textbook for Class VII, 2004 edition, published by the Punjab Textbook Board. Out of a total of 10 chapters of the book, only one chapter, `Civic Life in Pakistan,` was free from a reference to the `Muslim world`. The remaining nine chapters have an exclusive specialized focus on the Muslim/Islamic world.

The social studies course is supposed to be an introduction to social sciences at preliminary level but the book hardly enlightens the students about social realities.

Rather, given the nature of contents, its very title `Social Studies` appears to be misleading, as all but one chapter contain too much of an emphasis on `Islamic` themes. The central theme of the book is nothing more than a pan-Islamic fantasy. It describes the `Muslim world` as if it is a separate geographic, economic, and political entity, which is untrue.

In fact, the Muslim countries stand disunited, underdeveloped, and uneducated. The book`s compilers` wish for Muslim unity, no matter how sincere and noble, must not be reason enough to distort facts. And the term `Muslim World` is confusing.

Does it refer to countries where the Muslims are in majority? Or Muslims all over the globe are considered to be part of the `Muslim world`? There is no harm in coining new terms to describe a social phenomenon or idea but they (terms) need precise definitions.

No attempt has been in the textbook to define `Muslim world` or the `Islamic society`. Moreover, I have never heard phrases like Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist world.

The book gives a perverted view of the world. It depicts the world in terms of a `Muslim` and `Non-Muslim` divide. No such division exists in the real word. Nations make regional and bilateral alliances according to their economic and strategic interests rather than on religious lines.

Turkey`s eagerness to join the EU, and Iran`s defence ties with India, are just two of the many examples. For all practical purposes, there is no concept of a Muslim world. Even most of the Muslim countries themselves do not subscribe to `pan-Islamism`.

Last but not least, social studies is a compulsory course for all students irrespective of their religious affiliations. What we are trying to teach in the name of social studies can more precisely be named as `Muslim Studies`.

While the imagined Muslim world exists nowhere on the ground, we are painting a fanciful and fictitious picture of a world for our young students. Interestingly, students of elite private schools are not fed such myths. Do we deliberately want to keep the majority of our people unenlightened and ignorant?

#62 by jang on June 11, 2004 9:50am PT


#61 by plats8 on June 11, 2004 9:50am PT


How pathetic can you be dude...... one person under different nicks....... what a looser.

See below:
#62 by jang on June 11, 2004 9:50am PT
#55 by omar_r_quraishi on June 11, 2004 5:29am PT

``DUDE R U FOR REAL -- india`s former science and technology minister Murli Manohar Joshi made it govt policy to re-write the textbooks, starting in UP and this was announced in large rallies all over northern india -- DUDE , were u sleeping at that time? what a question to ask! ``

AND:

#61 by plats8 on June 11, 2004 9:50am PT
Omar Quraishi #55,

``DUDE R U FOR REAL -- india`s former science and technology minister Murli
Manohar Joshi made it govt policy to re-write the textbooks, starting in UP and
this was announced in large rallies all over northern india -- DUDE , were u sleeping
at that time? what a question to ask!``

GROW UP.

In one country, hell breaks loose over giving students the option of learning astrology. In another, teaching of hatred is considered necessary part of religious indoctrination of students and a time-honored practice in schools.

Omar

Here is some stuff from NCERT (text book writing authority in india). This is what they accomplished during the previous BJP govt.

http://ncert.nic.in/histdebate/histindex.htm

Where do you read spewing of hatred? The list contains underlined ``deleted`` sections. You can certainly debate accuracy of the content, but that is a separate topic. NCERT also seems to be an open and transparent forum, where they post everything from actual letters etc and air the debate. Do you find this objectionable, if so why?

Thanks

Omar Quraishi #55,

``DUDE R U FOR REAL -- india`s former science and technology minister Murli
Manohar Joshi made it govt policy to re-write the textbooks, starting in UP and
this was announced in large rallies all over northern india -- DUDE , were u sleeping
at that time? what a question to ask!``

Making public announcements and it`s actual implementation are two entirely different
things. Joshi also wanted to insert Vedic Astrology or some such crap in university
curricula. I guess Jang is asking for real examples and quotes (from textbooks)
which show the change. A fair thing to ask, I`d say.

Ahmadzai #58,

Care to show me how it is incorrect ? I am merely pointing out the inconsistency in
your own post.

#55 by omar_r_quraishi on June 11, 2004 5:29am PT

``DUDE R U FOR REAL -- india`s former science and technology minister Murli Manohar Joshi made it govt policy to re-write the textbooks, starting in UP and this was announced in large rallies all over northern india -- DUDE , were u sleeping at that time? what a question to ask! ``

Omar, again requesting specifics please. It will be great if you can cite examples that you find ``saffron`` or otherwise hateful. You are still using innuendo and what I am looking for is examples, as I could not find these myself. Perhaps articles which cite such examples?

Thanks

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Plats at # 51:

Your understanding of the matter and subsequent reasonings and deductions are incorrect.

arjun:

So many posts one after the other? kiyun sulagg gai? But you are such a big baigharat that even though each single one of your ridicule on Pakistan is proven wrong with the passage of time, you always find a new event. Simply on historical facts you must rest assured that everything found against Pakistanis by the USA/Europe/India today will be proven wrong in the days to come. Also, rest assured that in whatever forum China and India find themselves today, Pakistan will follow in few years. Have this in writing from me.

Btw, I also understand your going ga ga on ``humiliation of Pakistanis`` e.g. in Macedonia. They did kill one innocent Indian Muslim also claiming that he was an Al Qaeda terrorist, right?.

Now go back to your copy and paste operation.

:-)

Omar at # 55:

Yes you are right. I agree with you.

:-)