Textbook Questions

Ahmed Bilal/126 . . . on guitar players from India . . .

a) Freddie Mercury of QUEEN. (Firdus Mehta?)
b) Remo Fernandes.
c) Pandit Vishwa Mohan Bhatt.
d) Ehsaan Noorani & Loy Mendonsa with Shankar Mahadevan.
e) Narayana Iyengar (chitraveena, triple guitar)
f) There is this one guy from Karnal, I forget his name, who plays with Madonna as well as part of a group my son keeps listening to, I forget the name.
g) Jimi Hendrix, ofcourse, is another famous South Indian.

However, jokes apart, I would also suggest you try to get hold of some of Shiv Kumar Sharma`s santoor music, beats guitar anyday. I am reliably informed that Nick Nolte as well as Peter Gabriel are both trying to incorporate the santoor as an alternative to the basic steel/electric guitar.

I agree that many young people would rather listen to music . . . but Ahmed, in all of Islamabad & Rawalpindi put together there is only one small shop which even attempts to repair traditional musical instruments. My comment on ``Muslims who like music not being acceptable in Pakistan`` stems from that, not from the cheap availability of pirated discs.

I can understand one, maybe two, generations post Independence concentrating more on survival, having been through that in India myself. But now it is time to get along, no?

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(Nikki7777 to please excuse us, your generalisations on Punjabis don`t really impact my mixed North/South/West genes and world citizen family background, but all you display is a lack of understanding when you try to substitute content and knolwedge with hot air and bluster)

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No, Omar & hellhound, I am not patronising. I have as much of a right to an opinion on Pakistan as anybody else who hailed from that part of the world.

#129 by veeresh

As a follow-up, I got a website (www.gigapad.com) of Indian underground rock bands from Nikki7777. Any other pointers are also most welcome. Rock artists of all countries, unite! :) Thanks.

sadna: ``When Bidwai sticks strictly to facts or interpretations of facts then he has worth. When he goes into rhetoric or outright abuse(like he did with President Kalam) then I can`t stand him.`` -- i wish u applied this to your compatriots who interact here -- and by the way to your question

---

``How many times has the Pakistani public been informed of this by the English press in these intervening years ? Suddenly in the year 2004, the `liberal` and `free` Pakistani press publishes a few select articles and demands to be called liberal and free. That ruse works only when people have no other sources of information.-- if u only dug into chowk a bit deeper u would have found an article published in 2000 which talked about the kind of textbooks that pakistani students had to study from in govt schools and how different were those in the private schools -- and that article came in the english language press of pakistan -- it would help if you tried to look beyond your biases sadna -- :)

#129 by veeresh

Peter Gabriel experiments with all kinds of international music. He also used vocals of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan on soundtrack of The Last Temptation of Christ. That doesn’t mean that qawwals are replacing vocalists in rock music. There are countless other examples of such fusion, but versatility of electric guitar as the main instrument in rock music remains unchallenged. I have great respect for classical musicians and traditional instruments, but I don’t think anything can replace a guitar solo in rock music. Check Joe Satriani and Steve Vai live in concert to understand what one can do with an electric guitar.

Your comment regarding acceptability of classical rock in Pakistan is not accurate so I would assume that it was due to your lack of understanding of it. It is not limited to pirated discs of International bands. We have a number of local rock bands, mostly led by some brilliant guitar players of our generation, with thousands of fans attending their concerts and buying their CD’s. Their music is mostly a fusion of classical rock and traditional musical influences. I haven’t heard anything even remotely comparable coming from India in terms of quality rock music. But I am open to reconsidering this position if you could give me pointers to some of India’s finest guitar players. Here is a no-jokes-intended list of some brilliant Pakistani guitar players:

Amir Zaki
Faraz Anwar (Mizraab)
Salman Ahmad (Junoon)
Shallum Asher Xavier (Fuzon)
Mekaal Hassan (Mekaal Hassan Band)

These are just some of the names. You can find music of these artists at any Pakistani music website on the internet or on Pakistani TV channels and radio stations. Many of them tour internationally as well. These are very much in the mainstream of Pakistani music, but you can also find music of Pakistani underground rock bands at various websites, including http://www.umrevolution.com. In terms of Pakistani music, a lot has changed in last 15 years, and unacceptability of music is not acceptable to most young Pakistanis anymore. People in general are also quite open to this change. I can personally testify to that because I used to travel from NWFP to Bahawalpur, often on public transport with long hair and a guitar in my hand. And I certainly was not the only one doing that. We know how to rock! :)

Thanks.

#116 by omar_r_quraishi

[and no, i dont call anyone who disagrees with me an RSS sympathizer but based on the stuff some of your compatriots write and post on chowk i think any sensible person would call them that]

Does that mean you`re not one among them, i mean the sensible?

[if your not an RSS sympathizer then your not -- why does a remark from someone who doesnt know, has never met you and probably will never meet u create such a reaction?]

Anyone who`s been reading your posts of late will tell you that you`re the one who`s reacting. Your posts give it away Omar `mian`. Give up. Or keep facing the music.

nikki: ``GO ON...start picking up on my country`s records to counter...the fact is, all this if it happens in india is a matter of public record..Is it the same in your country???..``
errr.... yes it is, u moron, it is :) try reading some of the pakistani press and u will see that it is


nikki: ``TO MULLAH OMAR...For the last time ...GET A LIFE...i know you love india and indians and you bemoan the fact that you were born in a screwed up country like Pakistan...i`m sure down beneath you`re actually a decent human being longing to live with other free peoples like us indians...we`re not perfect but atleast we`re free...inspite of my north indian brothers and sisters ,especially those in northwestern india who share blood and culture with your lot, causing pain to the fabric of india, we`re still a decent lot...i know you`re looking forward to visiting New Delhi again....one thing india is which your country isn`t...india is a democracy....i say no more.`` --

now in your next life u will born an ant for saying all this hahaha

nikki if u post it once it works too ..... `womenfolk` and `menfolk` -- how quaint


kaalchakra: ``In summary, Hindu organizations try to introduce an Hindu flavor to Indian schools. But the Hindu flavor, like Islamic flavor, is not necessarily an evil influence (not secular, but not evil).`` -- kya baat kee hai aap na chakra jee -- wah wah

sadna -- i have never abused u -- calling someone `missy` or `dahling` is not abusing them -- and im not sure if ive ever called u the former -- hellbound or khamkhwa did suggest that u might be a RAW agent and i have said that you`re paki bashing takes place on a very subtle subversive (hence mor dangerous) level -- so thats my opinion -- doesnt amount to abuse does it -- something your compatriots, esp this self-proclaimed southie nikki, do with impunity -- and by the way your remark ``Fazlur Rehman commands 100,000 armed fighters, he is now your leader of the opposition. 25% of Taliban`s army was composed of Pakistani jihadis.`` -- hahad dont know where u got that 100,000 figure from --

As for your question: ``How many times has the Pakistani public been informed of this by the English press in these intervening years ? Suddenly in the year 2004, the `liberal` and `free` Pakistani press publishes a few select articles and demands to be called liberal and free. That ruse works only when people have no other sources of information.`` --

Answer: Many many times and well before 2004 or even sept 11, 2001 -- i hope your point is suitably rebutted -- if youre ever in pakistan and in khi come to the dawn library and we can show u the archives and u can see for yourself what the english press has been doing since the past 30 years or so -- u obviously dont read do u sadna -- u know nothing wrecks an argument more than basing it on wrong on unsubstantiated facts -- read some of the stuff that come in the zia days (1979-88) -- i think that qualifies as being 2004 or no sadna jee???

I saw Cowasjee on tv, too, but he was saying pro-Mushy stuff, sorry, they don`t begin to comapre with Indians. But what would you know with your blinkers?

Omar,
Even psychoanalysts don`t claim to know exactly what a person thinks, leave alone an assistant editor of Dawn. I know I`m not an RSS sympathiser-they lost me years ago when at an inter-religious meeting organised by my brother`s school, one of them said piously, the best job for a woman is kitchen, last word in English. I said, what, teaching? He said, no, kitchen, and the Bishop (how could he, he was a lovely man) and an imam both nodded wisely...I left. But importantly, you are entitled to think so if you want, and you will regardless of anything I say. As I pointed out to Sadna long ago, yours is a deluded nation, so you`d stand out if you were normal. The mind boggles that you are apparently the best Pakistan can do when it comes to journalism. I take back all my bad thoughts about Indian journalists.
I have heard of Ayaz Amir-he writes a column for some paper which gets published in outlook sometimes. I have seen Pervez Hoodbhoy on Aussie TV(saying that Mushy had an idea about the nuclear secrets being sold-wow, there`s a surprise-what a rebel), and he once answered an email I sent him in response to an article in outlook. He`s obviously a brilliant physicist, but he doesn`t get it either.
Interesting you should mention Arundhati. I attended the first reading of her book, and someone asked her what he brother felt about it. She got quite annoyed. Not then having read the book (this was a day after it came out) I wondered what was wrong with the questioner, but I got it as soon as I read it. Was anyone here at the Bombay Crossroads that night? Never mind, you have Sidhwa and Suleri. Cheer up.

Sorry, that should be Crossword in Bombay!

veeresh

freddy is a balsara (the toothpaste kind) zubin is a mehta and rocks too

omar_r_quraishi #134

``if u only dug into chowk a bit deeper u would have found an article published in 2000 which talked about the kind of textbooks that pakistani students had to study from in govt schools and how different were those in the private schools -- and that article came in the english language press of pakistan ``

You really do not read well. I referred to that very article in my first post to you on this thread. And clearly the Pakistani press did not do enough because whenever Indians brought up the subject of hate in textbooks on this forum in the last 3-4 years, we were abused as Paki-bashers, though we were merely being factual. It is incredible but even Jay was being factual though he did not know it.

As for calling me an agent, that has been some chowkwallahs` easy(and essentially dishonest) way out of any tight spot. And perhaps even on encountering ordinary VERIFIABLE information, they think they are getting some ``out of this world`` information or perspective, because their own press does not give it to them.


````Fazlur Rehman commands 100,000 armed fighters, he is now your leader of the opposition. 25% of Taliban`s army was composed of Pakistani jihadis.`` -- hahad dont know where u got that 100,000 figure from -- ``

From Afghanistan`s Endless War, Larry Goodson, University of Washington Press, 2001, who also refers to Ahmed Rashid`s `Taliban :Exporting Terrorism`.

He says p161
``Like the ``Arab Afghans`` who returned from the jihad of the 1980s to challenge secular regimes in the Middle East, the Pakistani Taliban wish to apply the lessons they have learned on the battlefields of Afghanistan to Pakistan. There are now estimated to be eighty thousand to one hundred thousand Pakistani Taliban, who are viewed by the JUI and similar organizations as the foot soldiers in a crusade to change Pakistan foreover``


One would think Fazlur Rahman being the leader of the opposition, how many armed fighters` support he commands is of relevance to the press, IF the press is really concerned about the jihadi content in textbooks and civil society.

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Ahmed Bilal/various . . . on the specific genre of classic rock guitarists in Inda, I would like to think that there is talent from the North East States, the college festival level and the few who I mentioned. But then, subsequently, the money comes from ``pop``, ``movie`` and jingles. I mean, ``Puranee Jeans aur Guitar`` was something on its own strength in India, and most people don`t even know the name of the Pakistani singer/player . . . but ask people about Daler Mehndi`s brother Mika and his guitar antics . . .

I am sure Pakistanis knew how to rock, the guys I knew were up there with the best too, but that was the `80s. Those in the Valley and elsewhere, them too. But what about today?

My comment on discrimination in Pakistan against ``Muslims who like rock music`` was based more on Pakistan as I perceive it today.

#142 by veeresh

Veeresh, I am talking about today. :) Most of this new wave of Pakistani rock music revolution broke into the mainstream in early 90`s when dedicated music FM radio stations came into play, and it never stopped there. I heard now there are dedicated television music channels emerging as well. The production quality of Pakistani local rock bands is increasingly matching international standards, thanks to brilliant production abilities of people like Mekaal Hasan, who himself is an excellent guitar player. He came up with his first album late last year which was a fusion of rock/jazz and classical. Check out his website http://www.mekaalhasanband.com/. And among the veterans, seven studio albums (excluding live and “best of” albums) later, Junoon are also alive and rocking. Faraz Anwar increased his audience by releasing an album in the USA in 2001 (followed by an album in Pakistan last year). His “Abstract Point of View” was greeted with excellent reviews from US music critics. I order these new albums online from Pakistan every few weeks. You can’t deny the Pakistani rock revolution, so join the chorus. Thanks.

You can`t win, sadna. you can`t be a moron so you`re a RAW agent. One or the other. Sometimes both.