Censoring Michael Moore

Is the dearest Omar what the problem dont that you know that Ali-1 and Veeresh actual Alephnull a Dullabhatti is? You would have to try is marriage better language to understand the key to hearts and kick loves. The quick brown fox jumpss over the Lazy Dog. Look once to the anagram in kapitaal letters please. How over this, then?

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Arjun_m:

Awesome military machine that is the US Army? Man stop spouting dialogues straight off of Fox News. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and the weak link in the US military is personnel. They have been producing push-button warriors for about a decade now.

The duration of `boot-camp` in the US Army is 6 weeks if I`m not mistaken, then the recruits go onto specialist training. In the Pak Army this duration is 9 months, I think it should be similar in the Indian Army.

Navy SEAL training lasts for 12 weeks, and SEALs are the most elite commando unit in the US military command. SSG (Special Service Group) training lasts 9 months, should be something congruent for the Indian Black Cats.

The German Wehrmacht during WWII, THAT was an awesome military machine. The Israeli Defense Forces, THAT`s an awesome military machine. The Pakistani and Indian armies are well-above-average military machines.

Yes, I`m sure Bush will be calling any minute to ask your advice about which Islamic terrorist regime to attack. He`ll call you my friend, as soon as he has finished eating the shit that the Iraqi campaign has become. I`m sure he`s eager to know your opinion on which new front to open to spread his already thin formations even thinner. Dream on little man :P

Regards,
Irfan.

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Omar sahib 110 . . . if Pakistan`s National Security Adviser Tariq Aziz can, with a Pakistani passport, make a trip to Amritsar and Jammu as a guest of the Indians, then surely you, too can? Especially when I see that Urdu media from Pakistan, free-lancers like me, and other media-persons from both countries, do manage to go walk-about very comfortably.

Try it, Omar Sahib, the countries are changing, be part of it.

As for answering your questions, Omar Sahib, I hope to be able to do them, rather soon, in the course of my articles. Here as well as in certain eminent Pakistani publications.

I don`t wish to point to your track record of getting abusive when faced with queries yourself.

As for my hospitality, Sir, both of us come from a similar culture, where as long as you are going to be my guest, you shall be at the receiving end of my best hospitality. Please be assured of that, our disagreements here have nothing to do with that simple fact of life.

arjun & romair


Now you two guys are confusing me. Arjun wants me to go into a country in order to be able to critcize it and Romair wants me to leave a country in order to be able to criticize it. So which one is it guys?

I think, since I have been able to light a fire under the tails of both of you - two guys from opposite bands of a spectrum - therefor there must be something that i am doing is right; i.e. right in the middle. i guess i wont stop criticising na pak fauj and the evil empire and stay where exactly I am.

nikki: ``I want to rub this into `mullah` omar`s sawed off lil` pecker`` -- wow chowk editors u have done yourselves proud ...

veeresh ji -- i only carry a pakistani passport, tahts why i asked --


nikki: ``....MULLAH OMAR...Actually thanks to veeresh for being bold enough to associate with obnoxious types like yourself.I`m far from being a RSS shiksha,as i was born and am an indian christian and i`m not jealous of pakistan as there`s nothing to be jealous of.Really!!!. I just don`t like your shrill, dirt-digging posture vis-a-vis india and your articles are quite amateurish and that`s as objective as i can get.I`m not a journalist nor did i study journalism or communications so what do i know??.It`s just my opinion.The RSS has a right to go about their business along with all the groups and associations that are a part of the indian mosaic.I detest what they espouse but i will fight for their right to exist.I am confident that the public at large in my home country will never allow anything involving one`s personal freedom to associate or worship be hijacked by any group hindu. muslim or christian or get out of hand.That is why i love the concept of India.Something you will never experience.So butt out.``

nikki doesnt matter what faith u r coz i couldnt give a rats ass about who or what u believe in, its your choice -- when i called u a moron, which i think i did, it was based on your posts -- and it seems u want to outdo yourself each time -- try....try not abusing when y ou want to put your point across -- and try not referring to people`s anatomy -- i see u seem to be quite obsessed with that -- i wonder why hmmmm -- as for digging dirt on india, dude what do u think your indian buddies do here on chowk all the time???? i am not denying that i am posting articles critical of india but what do u think happens with the indians on this site -- they do teh same and actually they start it and since no one bothers responding in kind i say hey what the heck -- if, as u claim, u will fight for the RSS`s right to exist then learn to deal with posts critical of india and if u want to argue then stop being abusive and try using your mind, that is if u have one -- if u notice i dont say anything about your opinion on my articles because tahts your opinion -- learn to respect the opinions of others without talking about `peckers` and `asses` and `dicks` u moron -- and actually veeresh didnt answer several questions i asked him some time back but its ok -- he doesnt have to -- and u by the way seem so obsessed with india being secular u sound like one of our mullahs here who always say `islam khatray mein hai` -- grow up dude, its ok if some people dont think its all that secular --

Gujjubania, I don`t agree with you. Some people are like that ;certainly not all. I would agree with you that if people do feel that way, they are welcome to cross over. But of the many, many Indian Muslims I have known, not one has been like that. Maybe Ahmed Bilal`s friend means he would like to use Pakistan as a bargaining chip, but there is no bargain.
You`re right, some people do shelter ISI agents, but I suspect money has a hand in this.
My memories of the Kargil war include that there were prayers held in mosques for our soldiers. And I will never forget Hanifuddin. Indian Muslims don`t have to keep proving themselves.

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I am not sure where to post this.

I just heard one of the funniest phone calls of my life. Who says Pakistan does not have excellent customer service? Who says the customer is not the boss in Pakistan? And who says there is no freedom of expression in Pakistan? And who says things are censored in Pakistan?

This is hilarious. It contains a large amount of vulgularity. It reminded me of my military days. So Chowk Staff, feel free to delete my message if you don`t think it is appropriate. But, I think, all adults should get exposed to things like this, if they want broader exposure to the real Pakistani society.....

So, beware (specifically ladies who cannot handle it). But this is a must hear.....Definitely not for kids...Listen at your own risk....But it is hilarious......I can`t stop laughing......

http://mobilink.uni.cc/

AhmedBilal #92,

If possible, could you clarify with your friend what he meant by Pakistan being the
last hope for Indian Muslims ? I am not being snide. Does he mean that given an
opportunity, all/most Indian Muslims would migrate to Pakistan ? Some of that
happens, I am sure; but perhaps not in significant numbers. Is it a bad economic
deal for them in India, or a genuine fear of life and limb ?

I think this sort of supranational loyalty (or perception of such loyalty) is what the
BJP has used to make political gains in India. However, I don`t think that there is any
clear trend of Indian Muslims associating themselves with Pakistan. It would be nice
to have a Muslim Indian elaborate on this. Of course it`d be a solitary opinion, but
valuable nonetheless. Farzana/Zafar/nasah/... anyone ?

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Veeresh, it was very kind of you to answer the author`s questions, especially when he noted on another board that he is not here to answer anyone else`s questions.
I thought you had a Pindi-specific visa! I read your articles on the Outlook site, not here.
Omar, what you are so proud of having published-we take that for granted in free societies. I`m mildly incredulous that you even think fit to point it out. Things are obviously worse than they look.

Urstruly #95: ``I don`t think I need or anyone else needs a character certificate from you to see whether one is hypocrite or not.``

I have no intention in giving anyone character certifications. I am not in that business. That should be evident from my comments on the Muslim/non-Muslim/Ahmedi board. I hope you agree no one should give character certifications, be it on hypocricy, or on who is or isn`t a Muslim. Do we agree on that? Do you agree to stop giving certifications on who is and is not a Muslim, if you feel no one needs a certification on being a or not a being a hypocrite?

``Those who will still chose to remain in United States and criticize it as well, have my deepest respects because they are raising the voice of dissent right in front of the oppressor, which in the words of our Holy Prophet (pbuh) is the most exalted level of Jihad.``

One can twist religion to suit anything. This maybe why Muslims aren`t advancing. Did the Holy Prophet say that one should migrate to a country, pay taxes there, feed the killing machine as it kills Muslims, just so one can dissent? What he said was about dissenting against something happening within one`s own society. Not migrating to a place, to live off it, and then dissenting against it, just to hide one`s own double standards. That would be the equivalent of a Muslim from Medina migrating to Mecca, to make more money, joining the Quraish, becoming a, ``law-abiding`` citizen there, feeding its military machine as it attacks Medina, while dissenting from within Mecca, and stating that he is following the advice of Prophet Mohd.

If he was stuck in Mecca, or born there, that is one thing. But if he willingly migrated there, while hating Mecca, and continues to hate it (at least outwardly), while living off it, then what else is he but a hypocrite (just an opinion, not a certification from the State). One should not twist Islam to suit one`s actions. A habit many mullahs have.

Have you studied Islamic sayings on qaul and fael and tazaad. You quote Moudoodi a lot. What are his opinions on dar-al-Islam and dar-al-Harb?

There is a difference in dissenting from the inside and hating a country as an entity. A person who dissents, loves his country. He doesn`t hate it. He just wants the govt. (or oppostion) to change its ways. A good example are the Pakistanis on this site, and their dissent against various Pakistani govts. Or the dissent of many Americans against their various govts.

``So I do not see any hypocrisy in those who have courage to stay here. ``

Now you are stating that you are specifically in the USA to dissent from the inside. Is that true? Did you really move to the USA to dissent from the inside? I find that hard to believe. I thought you were conned into moving there. Which one is it? Or did you move there to make more money?

You have lived off the USA for so long. When someone asks you, why you are doing that. You say you were, ``conned.`` When someone asks you how you were conned, you do not reply. I have asked you so many times. How in the world can an adult be conned about this? And why does an adult continue getting conned, even if he knows he is being conned?

And what desire developed in you to change your whole lifestyle, migrate to another country, just so you could dissent against it, in the first place? I have never heard of people migrating into another country, so they could dissent from the inside........

In any case, one lives by one`s own conscious. I find your criticisms, from a distance, about Iraqis etc., while feeding and simultaneously hating the beast, quite a contradiction. One cannot have it both ways. Either one loves one`s country, or one hates it. If one hates it, one does not have any right to live off it. So one should move.

You are hunting with the hounds and running with the hares. Enjoying all the benefits of the USA, while proclaiming yourself to be the ultimate anti-USA mujahid. While simultaneously, passing declarations on who is and who isn`t a Muslim in Pakistan. Quite an achievement......not to mention quite a contradiction and double standard......

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Omar ji # 98 . . . inspite of this being a public website where both of us are amongst the few who use a true identity . . . inspite of the fact that you will probably get a ``Delhi only`` visa . . . inspite of the fact that it shall be a contravention of bilateral terms between our countries, as was my little walkabout in Pakistan with a specific `Pindi visa . . . inspite of all this, Sir, I shall surely take you walkabout to Jammu and Srinagar if desired . . . the risk will be ours combined and the rescue if required shall be mine . . . but with all this open forum discussion, if we get stopped at the border of Delhi, then so be it.

The above is basis an assumption that you carry a Pakistani passport only.

If, however, you carry any other passport, then Sir, Jammu & Srinagar and points beyond are wide open for you. Getting air tickets for Jammu, Srinagar and Leh is a wee bit difficult since the tourists are flooding in, but I shall overcome that too, for you.

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#94 by AlephNull

Of course, as usual, Romair will never reply to your post.

gujju: ``Listen quraishi (lower case deliberate , as always) , when I said you were a `cheap character` , it was based on the opinion that I have built of you after going through your drivel here on chowk.`` -- likewise -- i called u cheap in return too -- i assume being a bania is a sign of being cheap -- after all why else would u use that nick gujju -- are u telling me gujju also has a positive connotation ?


shri nikkijee: ``....hellbound...i read omar`s profile...so???...he still is in my view a narrow minded, india-jealous, latent islamic fundmental toady...maybe his experience in the west made him that way...who cares???...he`s just a shrill ,defensive dirt-digger, that`s what he is...his articles are so amateurish..`` -- replace india with pakistan in your post and islamic with hindu (RSS card carrying member) and the same applies to you --


rsridhar -- its ok, u dont have to give us a lengthy explanation on that -- at least i never said that the hindus in pakistan should go home -- if anything i have written stuff questioning the pakistan govt`s requirement that all students, even non-muslims, study islamiat in govt schools -- and recently we carried a letter, which i passed on myself, explaining the anguish of a hindu father who was asked by his son questions about why he was being made to study islamiat --

veeresh sahib -- where r u when i need u to answer some pressing questions -- can i walk about in jammu or srinagar ? could u arrange that when i visit delhi , could u huh ??

Romair

I don`t think I need or anyone else needs a character certificate from you to see whether one is hypocrite or not. I am not moving out of US because it will make me a non-hypocrite but because I fear that I will be persecuted for simply being what I am. Those who will still chose to remain in United States and criticize it as well, have my deepest respects because they are raising the voice of dissent right in front of the oppressor, which in the words of our Holy Prophet (pbuh) is the most exalted level of Jihad. The freedom of speech thing is just an illusion now as the events in past couple of years have attested. Many of those who have raised their voice of dissent have been charged with dubious charges and denied the due process; some of them are in detention camps with in US; others at Guantanomo Bay; and yet others in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. Thousands have migrated out of this country for fear of persecution as well. I have seen helpless humanity taking refuge in churches and synagogues in bone chilling cold, at the border cities of Michigan and New York State awaiting their entry into Canada to escape persecution. Some of those who raised their voice of dissent have been meted out the most inhuman treatment in these internment camps. It is an open secret now. This tells a lot about the character of American nation by the way they treat their most vulnerable and most helpless. So I do not see any hypocrisy in those who have courage to stay here. As a matter of fact, what I think hypocrisy is leaving and then continue speaking against oppressors from a safe distance.

Romair #71

{{I left the USA, and have decided to not go back. I gave up a green card, and a future citizenship, to start from scratch in another country. But now I say whatever I want, with a clear conscious. I think others like FOMC left also.}}

While you are castigating Urstruly for his supposed hypocrisy, how about considering your own situation. You live in a country, Canada, that has been a camp follower of the US in international relations for much of the last half-century, if not more. It subcontracted most of its defense to the US during the Cold War while acting as a loyal junior partner. It has participated in various US campaigns abroad such as the 1991 Gulf War and the current Afghan War, to the extent that Canadians have been killed by US forces in friendly fire incidents. It was even a junior partner in Somalia, where its men were involved in human rights abuses. Nobody need be fooled by the moralizing poses that Canadians occasionally strike. When push comes to shove, they fall in line with the US more often than not.

Canada’s economy is as tightly integrated with the US economy as that of any nation with a similarly sized population. This is all the more true since the 1989 passage of NAFTA. The US is Canada’s largest trading partner for both imports and exports. Those who live and work in Canada cannot avoid contributing to the US economy to a degree comparable with though less than American taxpayers.

{{You chose to move to America. You didn`t have to. Now for some strange reason, you are unwilling to leave it. You are living off it. And yet you consider it an evil empire.}}

Romair, you apparently continue to do business with companies in the US and travel there regularly. By all indications you too are living off the US. If you really want to have a clear conscience, you ought to leave Canada and move to a country where your economic interaction with the US is minimal. Otherwise you are as big a hypocrite as Urstruly.

Urstruly #76: ``Romair

The clear answer is that I have decided to leave US preferably by the end of this year.``

Fine. Point taken.

There is nothing wrong with hating America. I think there are a lot of people in the world who have legitimate reasons to hate America. America has screwed them thoroughly. This is what superpowers do to remain superpowers.

There is however, something wrong with hating America, as an entity, (this is different from hating one party in America, while still not hating it as an entity), and still trying to live there. That is hypocricy.

Since you are moving, then I would have to say you can hate it all you want, without falling into the hypocrite category.......If you don`t move, for whatever reason, then I am afraid, you will become a pretty big hypocrite.

Now, if we can extend this discussion furthur: how exactly were you conned? What happened, and how did you get stuck in the USA, by getting conned?

#85 by rsridhar

You have made some very interesting observations. Similarly, there seems to be no good reason for the great support for Pakistan in Bangladesh, keeping in mind the unfortunate incidents of 1971. Maybe these people do actually associate themselves more with their religion than their nationalities. Recently, I came across an Indian Muslim here, who after arguing that Pakistan should not cut defense budget said to me that Pakistan is the last hope for Indian Muslims. This came to me as a surprise because my understanding was that Indian Muslims (unlike Kashmiri Muslims) don’t really care about Pakistan and consider themselves Indians first. An independent survey may reveal some interesting statistics in this regard. Thanks.

Listen, those weren`t even of Indian origin, ok?

Interesting how excited some people get when 2 people are identified as Indians. No follow up even as to the veracity of the report.
You have Pakistanis charged for terrorism in literally dozens of countries. Now why is that?
Just because someone went and ogled Indian models doesn`t make him neutral. The world ogles Indian models, and quite rightly too!
Anyway, be happy about the ``censorship`` of Michael Moore. The thing is, he will be heard. Whcih is more than you can say for dissidents in some countries.

Michael moore is a lying propogandist. Yet another example..... In a recent interview with Playboy magazine, the liar said that Bill Oreilly is trying to get him killed therefore everybody should complain to FCC and have Bill Oreilly punished. While Bill Oreilly actually said on one his shows ``I will have Michael moore killed.... Yeah right``, the propagandist left out the ``yeah right`` part intentionally in his quotes to Playboy magazine. What a clever chutzpah indeed.

The ugly fat b@st@rd Micheal moore should know that no conservative in his right mind would like to have him killed. He is their their favorite whipping boy among the liberals. They are just too happy to see such ugly turd to be associated with the liberals.

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The Omar is in the habit of abuse others when everything more fracassa. It is a true revolutionary as the wheel of bottom of a cycle following the wing frontal alone.

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re:#75 by omar_r_quraishi
Statistics speak overwhelmingly in favor of the kind of arrangement i am talking about. I had always said in the past that IMs may have to go halfway to meet the Hindus. That is to say, they have to find a common ground to walk on. IMs have kept themselves secluded. The only thing that seems to excite them is the religion. And for all the wrong reasons.
The Shahi imam of Delhi sided with BJP (sold himself to that party) and now that the party has been voted out, he is angry. So, to regain the lost ground, he warns of a civil war.
Are Indians to suffer such fools for long? Where are the enlightened muslims in India? Where are the people who can question this and other such idiots?
Indian govt bends backwards to please Kashmiris (pouring millions into the developmental activity of that state) and yet we have Kashmiris who are not happy with being in India. India spends millions of dollars for making Haj easy for the IMs but i do not see IMs support India on Kashmir. They are ready to come out in large numbers to protest the US presence in Iraq but they have not yet once protested agains jehad and jehadis in Kashmir.
What is one to make of all this? That the IMs take their rights and previleges for granted. That they are used to being pampered so much that they do not think it necessary to do the right thing.
Also, we are addressing a humane issue here: innocent lives lost during riots. I can assure u that there won`t be any riots once the muslims are in an insignificant minority in India. When was the last time u heard of a hindu-muslim riot in pakistan? In Pak, muslims are killing muslims.
Sridhar

gujju bhai u wrote : ``two Indians [Spanish citizens of Indian origin actually- not much to do with India apart from their brownish color]`` -- so its okay to use the same arguments for pakistanis living in the UK , born and bred there, but now caught by the British authorities, right ?

veeresh sahib -- done any walkabouts in andhra of late?

Suicides by Andhra Pradesh farmers continue

By S. Nagesh Kumar



HYDERABAD, JUNE 9. As many as 161 farmers have committed suicide in Andhra Pradesh since May 14 when the Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy Government assumed office. Drought for three successive years, crop failure and mounting debts are cited as the reasons for the present state of affairs.

Senior State Agriculture Department officials told The Hindu that this had happened despite the good agricultural performance in 2003-04 when the output was the best in three years. However, they were unable to explain the spurt in the number of suicides in the last three and a half weeks.

Official statistics show that 137 farmers ended their lives on account of debts and crop failure. Five more committed suicide due to failure of borewells, and in the remaining 19 cases, ``other reasons`` were cited. The present tragedy is comparable to the spate of suicides by cotton farmers in Telangana in 1997-98.

What has really baffled the Government officials is the widespread occurrence of the suicides, reported from 17 of the State`s 23 districts. Guntur, a district in the relatively prosperous coastal Andhra region, has reported 22 suicides — the third highest after Medak (26) and Karimnagar (20). An age-wise analysis reveals that a majority of the victims (130) were in the highly-productive 25-50 age group.

While the Government has cited `natural calamities such as successive droughts and pest attacks` as one of the causes for the suicides, figures show that agricultural production actually rose last year, thanks to the normal rainfall of 817 mm during the SW and NE monsoons from June 1 to December 31, 2003. In comparison, the rainfall during this period in 2002 and 2001 was 572 mm and 797 mm.

The Additional Director of Agriculture, P. N. Chowdary, said the situation was so comfortable in the rainfed areas that cotton farmers in Telangana received Rs. 2,500 a quintal against the minimum support price of Rs. 1,925.

According to bankers` projections, the credit requirement for agriculture in the State during 2004-05 is Rs. 20,000 crores. But this represents only institutional lending which accounts for 20 per cent of the total requirement. The rest apparently comes from moneylenders, who charge usurious interest rates, and dealers of fertilizers, pesticides and seeds.

Even the institutional credit has several shortcomings, including uneven spread. Last year, banks disbursed Rs. 7,903 crores in crop loans against the target of Rs. 9,660 crores. The target this year is Rs. 11,205 crores.

Now, the bankers` task is to ensure that more borrowers are brought under the net and to see that the crop loans are properly utilised. Another challenge is to mitigate the plight of the 35 lakh tenant farmers and sharecroppers who are outside the institutional credit system as they cannot furnish any collateral security. Alarmed over the spate of suicides, the Chief Minister, Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy, announced a special package under which Rs. 1 lakh would be paid to the family of every farmer who had committed suicide. In addition, a one-time loan settlement with a ceiling of Rs. 50,000 would be paid to the creditors. Banks are yet to approve Dr. Reddy`s proposal. This is a complete reversal of the policy of the Chandrababu Naidu Government, which was totally averse to payment of ex gratia on the plea that it would only encourage farmers to commit suicide. Congress leaders had been sharply critical of the Telugu Desam Party`s policy as it ignored the distress of families of nearly 3,000 farmers who, they alleged, ended their lives during Mr. Naidu`s rule. Apart from harassment by moneylenders, spurious seeds and lack of water, it has been acknowledged that poor delivery of agricultural extension services has also contributed to the farmers` distress. Regulation of the quality of seeds remains another grey area since existing laws do not cover all hybrids leading to spurious seeds ending up with the farmer.

According to Mr. Chowdary, until Parliament passes appropriate laws, all that the Government can do is enter into a `non-enforceable` memorandum of understanding with seed companies to ensure minimum quality.

The poor state of the State`s farm sector, considered the granary of the South, was highlighted by the Chief Minister in the Assembly recently. He said the share of agriculture in GSDP had fallen to 13.13 per cent in 2002-03 from 24.62 per cent in 1993-94.

Thanks for the follow up about the brownies. Incidentally, are you also keeping track of hundreds of Muslims being arrested throughout the world, and just like these two Indians end up being innocent victims of war on whatever supported by whatever!

NB: as for cutting and pasting, the indian brigade on chowk -- arjun etc. -- r masters at it -- we lowly pakis wouldnt want to take that away from them :)

what a restrictive society pakistan is veeresh jee -- u were apparently able to do a walkabout in all kinds of places including if im not mistaken changa manga and chichwatni (i believe they have good walnuts there) and no one bothered asking u any questions -- even the intelligence walahs left u alone hain -- now try doing that in a place like syria or burma and u will know what a restrictive society actually means -- hey wait a minute - shri veeresh ji -- u know i cant do that in srinagar or jammu or even outside the cities where i get my indian visa for -- now how restrictive can u get jee???

calling all paki-bashers -- if i hated india and indians so much i wouldnt have written this upon my return from a trip to delhi acouple of years ago or would i -- MORONS !

strange how a closet paki-hater like veeresh sahib here (its in his subconscious so he wont admit it or acknoweledge it) gets nothing for his drivel and patronizing travelogue about his recent `walking` visit to pakistan

A Comparison of Fashion
Omar R. Quraishi



Attending a fashion show, or rather India Fashion Week in early August? As in August 2002! Just at the time when a million Pakistani and Indian army soldiers face each other on the border? Well the circumstances were such that this was an opportunity too good to miss.

In New Delhi to actually attend a conference that was not related at all to fashion, I couldn’t help but notice during the break in the conference every day the dozens of articles and pictures published in the morning papers. Indian Fashion Week was on – from August 2 to 8 – and was actually being held at the Taj Palace Hotel in New Delhi. Apparently, the shows – thirty five in all, and then a daily seminar and several other related events – were going to be open only to selected invitees like buyers from major stores or from overseas, guests of sponsors and of course the media.

Since I was a journalist – who didn’t really write on fashion all that much but did follow the fashion scene in Pakistan as an interested reader and consumer – I thought this would be a great chance to go see and judge where our fashion industry stood compared to India’s (especially since we so often love to compare ourselves with them). I began first with the Times of India since the hotel I was staying at had that paper. I called them up to ask for the correspondent who had done that days story. He was out but I was given the number of Meenakshi who was working at the media centre. Now, and sorry to say this, but if this were Pakistan I would have probably had to face a lot of attitude. Please note that this call was made on Aug 2, the day Indian Fashion Week had already begun and I was calling to ask if I could still come, and without having submitted any of the documents needed for press accreditation. Surprisingly, Meenakshi was very cooperative, especially after I told her that I was a journalist from Pakistan. All I had to do was to show up at the Taj Palace the next day and everything would be taken care off.

Several events were scheduled for Aug 3, including one that particularly sounded quite interesting. The Sunsilk Styles of the Silver Screen hair show turned out to be an extremely well-packaged and managed fashion presentation. But before I get to that, a bit on the way India Fashion Week was being organized and some details about those who took part in it.

Their fashion industry has had the good sense and professionalism, and not to mention the commercial and trade support, to come together and form what is called the Fashion Design Council of India. It’s current director, Vinod Kaul, has almost thirty years of experience in the textiles and apparel retailing and merchandising industry, and this just goes to show the extent of cooperation between fashion designers and industry in India, something that is sorely missing in Pakistan.

In its third year, India Fashion Week ran in New Delhi from August 2 to 8. It had 53 designers highlighting their talent and they used 48 models, including reigning Miss India Neha Dhupia. The other thing that set it apart from any fashion event that one is likely to have seen so far in Pakistan is the immense amount of support it received from the media, print and electronic. For all the days that I was in Delhi, all the local English papers carried front-page stories about the event on their metro sections. Some papers took the more conventional basic reporting of a show, while others tried to be more innovative, like for example The Hindustan Times which deputed one of its reporters to spend a whole day with one of the young promising designers and then do a story on that. These stories, unlike the print media here, were carried in the main news pages, something that being a reader from Pakistan I had to get used to. Interestingly enough, some Indian journalists – not those who cover fashion though – themselves were quite critical of this saying that their editors often preferred glamour and entertainment stories in preference to those that had hard news, apparently because these increased circulation.

Other than the print media, dozens of correspondents of various Indian and foreign TV channels were on hand. In fact, the Fashion TV correspondent was milling about the media room before one of the shows I attended, trying to get an interview of the new – and stunningly beautiful – Lakme girl, the 17-year-old Vinnie Kapur. Several dozen computers were on hand for correspondents who wanted to file their stories directly from the hotel and some were being used to do just that, while a few others were being used by the waiting journalists to spend some time on MSN chat. Some of the journalists managed to find out that I was from Pakistan and several were surprised that I was actually in India given the existing situation, and most of the time I did feel like an oddity, as if being constantly looked at by interested spectators. Most, however, were friendly and curious to know how things were in Pakistan, both fashionwise and politically, especially with reference to Gen Musharraf and that planned election.

Though it was obviously impossible, and not even my intention, to attend all the thirty five shows (five every day, seven days running) that happened at India Fashion Week, the handful that I did manage to go made for an excellent experience. And, it was hard not to make comparisons with the way things are done – at least in the fashion and modelling, and styling, world – back home. In fact, even the comparisons to the way the media covers fashion in India, compared to the way it covers it (or some would say, doesn’t at all) were quite instructive. For example, many designers here, notably Rizwan Beyg in an interview last Sunday to a Lahore-based English daily, complain all the time that Pakistan has no fashion journalists worth the name. However, most of the journalists – both newspaper and television – that one came across covering India Fashion Week were not specialists either in the strict sense of the word. Most, like their counterparts here, had to cover several beats, one of which was fashion. Normally, fashion is part of the ‘arts and culture’ beat. In fact, only the correspondent of The Times of India said that he exclusively covered fashion, and that he had been doing it for ten years. Clearly, some of them had been covering it for so long that they had become specialists but that didn’t mean that they had any formal training. Unfortunately, such accusations are bandied about much too often by Pakistani designers, often on the grounds – sometimes though with good reason – that those who write on fashion know nothing about it. Well, for the sake of argument even if that were accepted to be true (which it mostly is) what do these fashion designers propose to do next. I mean it’s not as if the media in Pakistan is going to get extremely qualified ‘fashion critics’ suddenly from abroad or somewhere, so they (as in the fashion industry here) really have to make do with what’s on offer. And in any case, blaming the lack of qualified ‘fashion journalists’ does not take away from the fact that the fashion scene in Pakistan – at least to people from outside – is perceived to be incestuous and ridden with personal politics and rivalries (take for example the recent interview of Tariq Amin to an English daily).

What is different in India, and is certainly a handicap in Pakistan, is that TV there covers such shows most willingly and there are none of the absurd censor policies or other hypocrisies that one has to bear with in Pakistan. This by the way usually means that outlandish shows by our movie actresses are shown while perfectly tasteful fashion shows highlighting the creative energies of our local fashion talent are ignored.

The Indian fashion industry, as their fashion week showed, is much too large and organized for these things to get in its way. The shows that I managed to attend included a fabulous one by well-known designer Rohit Bal and another by Sunsilk which showcased how Bollywood had influenced hairstyles over the decades. Both were very well choreographed and managed. The lighting was spot on and the music well chosen and with excellent sound. These two particularly stood out because they combined the fashionable and the classical with the theatrical. The organizers also had a dedicated website to the event at www.lakmeindiafashionweek.com and several designers using the services of PR companies to showcase their participation. The Sunsilk hair show did have well-known Indian comedian actor Sajid Khan as sort of an MC but his jokes – unlike those of MCs here – were actually quite funny and not at all in bad taste. The way most of the Indian models walked, and looked, was quite different from what would likely to see any Pakistani model doing, except perhaps Iraj. As far as physical proportions go, most of their models have the height and built to work abroad, something that can’t really be said of much of the talent here. And, the shows were structured in a way – showing pret-a-porter or ready-to-wear collections – that it made economic sense with invitations extended to representatives of retail chains and major department stores. Here, most of the times the buyers are rich aunties or others kinds of individual buyers, and if that’s okay with the designers then what other people say shouldn’t matter.

Pakistan plans to have it’s own fashion week next month in Lahore. This is probably a good time as any for our industry to show off its talent and creative energy to other interested Pakistanis and to the rest of the world. Let’s hope it comes off at least with the same level.

Footnote: This article appeared previously in the the daily, ` Dawn`, Pakistan.

What raw nerve? I had root canals done last year, and spent thousands of dollars, thanks. You`d better have yours done, too, they`re all raw..
You make Bill O`Reilly look good actually. Unless you`re better looking than him.. I don`t know that, so will await with baited breath for yet another fair and handsome Pakistani. Possibly fairer than Bill O`Reilly. This is what I mean, that in Pakistan, the likes of you consider yourselves liberals!!!
You probably think of yourself as a valiant Islamic warrior, fighting for the good name of Pakistan. Don`t worry, Izzy ul Haque is doing that.
God, you`re immature for a man in your mid 30s. Is this par for Pakistan or just you?

#75 by omar_r_quraishi

[and actually i wouldnt want to compare myself with a bigoted reactionary like bill o reily]

Pot calling the kettle black?

Romair

The clear answer is that I have decided to leave US preferably by the end of this year. My taxes are something that I have no control over. The government takes it at source and I have no political power to redirect their spending. The only option that I have is to address the conscience of American people and tell them that it is wrong to exterminate human life elsewhere in the world using this money. I am a law abiding citizen and tend to obey the law of the land. My disagreement with policies, however, is a different matter. I can disagree with a government in a democracy while still abiding by the law. Currently, I see no law, that directly effects me, which goes contrary to my system of beleifs. I stand clear of paying interest, don`t use my credit cards, except in dire needs, don`t mortgage, and give my interest earnings through my savings account to charities. I disagree with abortion policies and beleive in preservation of human life at all costs. I believe marriage is a union between man and women and any other arrangement is a sure recipe to disintegrate social structure of the society. But these are the things millions of other Americans also belive in.

As long as I am alone in US I do not feel much threatened. Heck, I have survived a civil war and ethnic cleansing in Karachi. It is not as bad as yet. But America is absolutely not a place anymore where to raise one`s family. And as the time goes by it is going to get worst for Muslims here than getting better. The change of government in November will have no bearing on American policies towards Muslim countries because the events in the past two and half years since 9/11 have set them on an irreversible course. Now thhere can only be two outcomes of this confrontation - either Americans will succeed, quash any and all resistance in the Muslim lands, and subjugate them completely thru their proxies or direct occupation or there is a chance that Americans will have to make huge sacrifices of their vested interests and grant Muslim lands the freedom from their clutches and equality that they long deserve. Either way the Americans will be bitter and unaccomodating for as long as my natural life goes and beyond. But currently Americans are losing morally and also militarily and they are becoming bitter. Just wait until this loss will start translating itself into economic terms. As the urdu proverb goes - If you keep spending even Qaroon`s treasure gets emptied - similarly all wars come with economic costs and global wars come with economic costs of global proportions.

In all honesty I want America to hold the torch of justice and equality in this world. And for that they will have to make sacrifices and take their glasses of prejudice and hatered off. It is a tall order but it has happened in history before. I don`t want America to go down in the history as an empire that lost to its own bigotry, greed, and hatered. The shred of hope that I have in America is quickly dwindeling away though. It is law of nature that what goes up must come down. And only if wishes were horses.....

Most preferably I will move to a Scandanevian country. The whole of Muslim world and especially Paksitan has been turned into Dar-al-Harb from where I escaped persecution in the first place. The place, in all those years, has gotten worst than getting better. Leaving one`s country - his own or adopted - is not an easy task for a human being in such short span of a life time. It took me decades to leave my own country of birth - the country that has ravaged me emotionally and physically and yet not a day goes by when my heart doesn`t ache remembering its dusty roads. Only God knows when this perpetual migration that I am cursed with, will end.

I am sorry but it can`t get any simpler than that, now can it?

veeresh : ``You have a nice day, Omar . . . neck deep`` -- if u have to say something veeresh sahib then plz say it openly -- dont hide behind indirect allusions -- and for gods sake stop assuming that while u walk about on the streets of delhi and its suburbs that i sit in my air conditioned office -- actually if im not wrong werent u or arent u involved in some IT startup and didnt u take out a magazine on cars -- now was all of that from a dhaba and to prove it why dont u post pictures of your rundown dhaba-like office on chowk veeresh ji -- ``neck deep to u too :)``

hellbound -- thanks for pointing out what he said about my not having being to america -- what a moron nikki is -- he only had to read my profile page

nb -- u dont have to study journalism to know good journalism from bad -- and actually i wouldnt want to compare myself with a bigoted reactionary like bill o reily -- u obviously didnt get the post -- its quite obvious that the posts have touched a very raw nerve -- and by the way i didnt read thru much of your posts so u dont have to waste time typing next time --

pmishra2: ``We should let the readers decide who is ``whacko`` and who is not.` -- mishra sahib thats exactly what i say too -- let them decide -- but are u including paki-bashers like yourself and your assorted friends here in the `readers` category too?

rsridhar -- to QUOTE WHAT YOU WROTE: ``What better then than to repatriate the IMs to Pakistan for which the country was meant anyway. This seems like a logical choice. This is better than rioting where innocent people get killed.`` -- By ``IM`` I presume u mean Indian Muslims right -- so this is what the paki-bashing Indians think deep down inside -- rsridhar give my regards to your comrades messers togadia sahib and balasahed (thackeray) ji

gujju -- no man your the bania here -- u say so yourself --

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Omar # 61 . . . there is this story of a man who was sitting neck-deep in s/h/i/t, and making fun of another man who was wearing dirty shoes.

While your investigative skills on matters pertaining to communal riots in India are no doubt commendable, would you like to also maybe, just maybe, write about the role of Hindus at Ajmer Sharif? Or Muslims at Vaishno Devi, Amarnath?

I go to go now . . . the Sant Tukaram palkhis for Pandharpur, probably the holiest Hindu occasion in this part of India, West Coast/Maharastra, are going to start from today at Dehu Road, North of Poona/Pune, and the first day is always but always led by ``tasha`` players who happen to be a select group of people for the past so many generations, going back almost 500-700 years. This year the leader is Syed Ibrahim Mulani, accompanied by his gen-next youngest son, Riaz, who just happens to also be a techie I know. Some of us have to go help with the acoustics.

So while you find it easier to write about the no-doubt true incidents of communal riots in India from your air-conditioned caged gilded little parrot-perch in Pakistan, I am out there on the streets of Dehu Road trying to write about Lord Vithoba and his followers, and the fervour with which they often celebrate Ramzaan as well as Diwali.

You have a nice day, Omar . . . neck deep.

nikki7777:

Whilst I consider interacting on the front page a total waste of time for various reasons, one of them being that is hogged by both NRP and NRI who in the process of rediscovering themselves int the land of liberty lose touch with reality and contract the selective memory syndrome.

This post is in no way a defense for Omar, I believe he is quite capable of dealing with it on his own, but for the record,

I saw words in your post which alluded that Omar has never lived in US and therefore is not qualified to `condemn` America because he has not attained nirwana which according to you is openness....If you care to read Omar`s profile you will see that he has spent considerable time in US of A and was educated there...

Then I saw the words that no Indian was ever found involved in fundo/terrorist activities, now I am not too good in digging up archives and totally inept at cut `n` paste jobs, but if my memory does not fail me, was it not an Indian or two who was caught in Spain in the aftermath of train bombings. He or they were the money launderers for the group who carried out the attacks.

Just an observation. Never say never!

Cheers.

Urstruly #42: ``I was conned into believing what America is not.``

This part can be understood. But I cannot understand your reaction to this part. If you were conned, then why don`t you leave. What is stopping you from leaving? If you believe in your convictions, and don`t want your tax dollars going to the US military, then why not leave?

I left the USA, and have decided to not go back. I gave up a green card, and a future citizenship, to start from scratch in another country. But now I say whatever I want, with a clear conscious. I think others like FOMC left also.

There is a difference between Noam Chomsky and yourself. Chomsky is an American. He didn`t chose to be one. He was born there. You chose to move to America. You didn`t have to. Now for some strange reason, you are unwilling to leave it. You are living off it. And yet you consider it an evil empire.

Why don`t you leave America? Could you kindly provide a clear straight answer? ....Thanks

I don`t have time to go through your rubbish, omar. I saw the hyperventilating, but no, I am not having a panic attack. That`s a strange suggestion.
What`s wrong with Aussies, that they accuse your compatriots of terrorism? It`s richer, prettier, ...not too many Aussies migrating to Pakistan, but lots the other way. and umm, I live here? I can`t give examples of Saudi Arabia when I live in Australia.
And no, I`m not a journo, so I don`t study journalism.Have seen Bill O`Reilly, but you can`t compare yourself to him. Get a grip of your position and your country`s. Everyone who doesn`t agree with you is not whacko. No wonder it`s such a weird country, when the opinion makers are like this, what do you expect?
Do you want me to start cutting and posting from the H`aaretz or the Jerusalem Post, though I don`t know what good that would be? They have plenty of articles on the perfidy of Arabs, and letters on the general inferiority of Muslims. Now that`s a good place to go for a balanced assessment of Islam.
There have been plenty of inane Pakistanis-the Hononarable Syed immediately springs to mind. I will always remember him for bringing the vernacular for excreta on to the internet. I`d like to make an observation here, that liberal Pakistanis seem to be about as liberal as conservative Indians. When people`s minds are so closed, I don`t know why they bother to interact anyway. You don`t understand how a free society works. Yes, tribals undress other tribals, what do you want me to do about it? The cops are obviously looking into it. I know the tribals in the NWFP are models of law-abiding citizens, as is the bureaucracy, but we can`t all have such high standards.
I saw the words Rogue army-I`ll tell you who`s the rogue. My brother`s ex-classmate at the Armed Foreces Medical College is posted in Kashmir and got a call to come round a speak to someone who was there illegally. When he got there, what did he discover, but that it was a fellow doctor, from the Pakistani Army Medical Corps! I said to him, but why on earth did they send a dr? Don`t the minions do all the crossings. He said no, the rule is that there has to be one dr for every 30 soldiers in our army, must be the same for them.
I said, so did you pump him for info? He was all shocked and said, did you forget the Hippocratic code? I wonder how things would have been the other way round. By the way, he couldn`t have been lying-he`s a Muslim and we all know Muslims never lie.
BTW, Ram-ram is for the doodhwala, not me. For me you say Namaskar. The doodhwala`s son is now an engineer, I hear, so he`ll want a Namaskar too!

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Quraishi-sahib,

We should let the readers decide who is ``whacko`` and who is not. Obviously, you are not familiar with the openness of the internet and think you can call people names freely. Maybe that is how you treat your colleagues and employees, and in a feudal culture you can get away with it. I am afraid Chowk isn`t your personal fedual estate and we will all be judged by uniform standards of decency and openness.

As for your ``expose`` on India`s problems. Sure, many such problems exist and I am quite happy that we have a number of agencies and individuals who write about them. The clear light of day leads to improvements and changes. This is the principal behind all open and democratic societies.

Your responses are very similar to other people who are part of closed, sectarian societies. This type of person is deeply ignorant about how open societies work. They get very excited when they read a negative report; as they are completely unfamiliar with open reporting. I remember from the 70`s when Chinese and USSR newspapers would print huge articles on the racial problems in the US. They could not understand that self-criticism is an important part of progressive society. And neither do you....

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re:#61 by omar_r_quraishi
Did u fail to notice that, in the article by Asghar Ali Engineer, the riots happened only between Hnidus and the muslims. I mean, it seems to me that the rest of the minority community (christians, sikhs, jains, buddhists, parsees etc) live in peace with the hindu community.
Now, go to the muslim majority area viz Kashmir and u will find that the valley has few Pundits living there today. There are no hindu-muslim clashes among Kashmiris in the valley because there are few Pundits left there. The clash is between the security forces and the rest of the population (majority muslims).
It seems logical then to speculate that a solution lies in repatriating large muslim masses from India to Pakistan. This time around, this would include muslims fromt the south too (these were not involved during the Partition). Since we keep revisiting the issue of Kashmir which is more than 50 years old, it seems logical to revisit the issue of repatriation of Indian muslims who have problem with India.
I am proposing this as a solution to the problem of hindu-muslim riots. This will never go away for various reasons which i do not want to discuss here. By very nature, these 2 communities have inbuilt contradictions. In the absence of any attempts at assimilation, nay even understanding of each other`s situation, this problem is not going to improve. What better then than to repatriate the IMs to Pakistan for which the country was meant anyway.
This seems like a logical choice. This is better than rioting where innocent people get killed.
Sridhar

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nb before u start hyperventilating, the religious greeting references were started by my honourable indian paki-bashing detractors -- as for journalists in the US or Aussie (wow good example by the way) in the media acting like little kids, you have obviously never seen Bill O Reily or people on Crossfire --a nd they do it in actual life -- i prattle on, on a website and with people whom i generally think really deserve nothing better -- because to them everything seems to be an india-pakistan issue -- i wasnt the one who brought pakistan or india into this discussion NB but go on any article on this website, even one on trash by faiza hussain and u will see an (almost always) indian interactor bring pakistan-india ties and relations -- the problem is obviously the other way round --and when you post stuff that shows that india has some problems all that these paki-bashers can do is say oh well this is one example -- well i couldnt care if its one example or half, the idea is that we have problems in pakistan and so do u, but why does every board here have to become a jihadi/kashmir/muslim/hindu issue -- u can see any board, its almost always the paki bashers who bring this up -- now someone is responding to their inanities in kind and they cant seem to take it -- ram ram :) -- and lets not play down this incident -- even if its by a handful of soldiers im sure it reflects VERY BADLY on the whole indian army -- SHOULD WE PAKISTANIS NOW START CALLING THE INDIAN ARMY A ROGUE ARMY -- I dont see most pakistani interactors doing that though i can bet my life that if a similar article was posted on something done by the Pakistan Army we would have several dozen posts by the paki-bashers talking in extremely derogatory terms of pakistanis in general --

pmishra2 -- equally whacko interactor

Communal Riots - 2002

by Asghar Ali Engineer


[ 17 January 2003]

India could not free itself of curse of communalism even more than fifty years after independence. If anything it has been getting worse year after year. There has been not a single year in post-independence period, which has been free of communal violence though number of incidents may vary. The year 2002 has been one of the worst years in this matter right from the beginning as the Gujarat carnage began in the very beginning of the year. We will come to this carnage little later.

In the year 2002 the first reported riot took place in Kozhikode (Calicut), Kerala on 3rd January. In the clashes between two communities (Hindus and Muslims) five persons were killed. The clashes occurred on the question of eve teasing. The whole region came in the grip of violence. More than twenty persons were injured including five women. Properties worth lakhs of rupees were destroyed. A heavy police bandobast was made to bring the situation under control. Kerala is generally thought to be free of communal violence. But occasionally it also experiences such frenzy and bout of communal violence. However, it is generally brought under control as the Kerala government usually does not allow things to go out of had.

Gujarat was next to come under intense bout of communal carnage. It was of the kind, which India had never experienced accept at the time of partition. The communal carnage in Gujarat shook whole world. It was difficult to believe such intense communal frenzy could be incited by the BJP for its political gains. More than 2000 people were killed most cruelly in this carnage according to very reliable sources though the Government admits only about 1000 dead.

The communal carnage began with burning of coach S-6 of the Sabarmati Express coming from Ayodhya and bringing kar sevaks. Godhra is communally highly sensitive and yet the Narendra Modi government took no steps to prevent such incidents. The kar sevaks, as usual, deliberately or otherwise, provoked Muslim vendors on Godhra station including dragging a Muslim girl towards the coach. There was no police on the station despite intelligence reports warning against communal violence.

It is alleged that a mob of 1500 persons (mostly Ghanchi) Muslims collected and set fire to coach S-6. But it still a mystery as to who set fire to the coach. The forensic report says that the fire was lit from inside the coach, not from outside and t required at least 60 litres of inflammable substance like petrol to do the job. The Concerned Citizens Tribunal comprising retired Supreme Court Judges and other eminent S-6. Nothing can be said with certainty. This happened on the morning of February 27 and hell broke loose all over Gujarat on 28th February.

The VHP, the Bajrang Dal and BJP gave a call for bandh (Gujarat-wide strike) on 28th February and violent incidents started from the morning of 28th February, particularly in Ahmedabad. And before the sun set on 28th February more than 100 persons were killed in Ahmedabad alone. Most ghastly incidents took place in a place called Naroda Patia where more than 80 persons were burnt alive including women and children and number of women were raped in full gaze of public. The other ghastly incident took place in Gulbarg Society, Chamanpura where about 40 persons were burnt alive including the ex-M.P. of Congress Ahsan Jafri.

What is worse the Chief Mister Narendra Modi justified such frenzy and described it as reaction to action in Godhra. And all this happened with full complicity of the police and bureaucracy. The honest officers who did not allow carnage in their areas were instantly transferred by the Modi Government.

Some ministers who led the mobs have been named in FIRs. Many mosques and mausoleums were demolished and ground was leveled. Some accounts maintain about 700 such religious structures were brought down or severely damaged. Ahmedabad, Baroda, Mehsana and Panchmahal districts were the worst affected districts covering entire north and central Gujarat. There have been various estimates of the properties destroyed but generally it is maintained properties worth more than 10,000 crores were looted or burnt. The business lost due to closures and migration of labour is several times this figure. Hundreds of Muslim families were totally uprooted. The carnage continued for more than five months.

We have written a great deal on this already and much has come to light in various investigative reports, National Human Rights Commission report and other reports. It is record that more than 30 such reports were prepared by various committees, a record for any riot so far. It was a one sided carnage and not a riot in usual sense. Suffice it may to say that it will go down I history as the worst communal carnage in history of India.

The next riot took place in Kaithal, Haryana. Though the cause of the violence on disturbances on 28th February is not clear but it seems to be related to Gujarat incidents. According to The Hindustan Times report Shiv Sena, VHP and Bajrang Dal mobs pulled down a mosque and caused extensive damage to two others. They damaged at least four mazars (mausoleums) and enforced a complete bandh. Prohibitory orders were later clamped down on the town.

According to HR correspondent ìthe administration acted only after the damage had been done.î According to him a mob started out in the morning, brandishing unseathed swords, iron rods, sticks and other weapons and forced shopkeepers to pull down their shutters. When they reached a mosque near a school, they barged into the building and started pulling it down. They climbed the dome and pulled it down while people watched the whole operation. The police made only feeble attempts to stop it. The mob later demolished the mausoleum of Pir Nurani Badshah and three other mazars were extensively damaged which are visited mostly by Hindus.

A mosque near Ambedkar chowk was damaged by rampaging mob and pulling down portions of another mosque and a house belonging to a cleric behind the mosque was set afire. This extensive damage was done to several mosques and others were demolished. All this was naturally shadowed by the developments in Gujarat.

During the Maharashtra bandh call given by the Shiv Sena, VHP and BJP on 1st March to protest the setting ablaze of coach of the Sabarmati Express on 27th February in Godhra a violent mob went on rampage in Murbad 80 kilometer from Mumbai. Fortunately Murbad was the only town affected during the call for bandh by the Sangh Parivar.

During the bandh in Murbad the Bajrang Dal morcha began looting and burning Muslims shops. According to the report released by the Maharashtra Minorities Commission Inspector Vijay Jagtap, the officer in charge in tehsil town of Murbad went down on his knees to plead with the mob to spare the madrasa. However the mob of Bajrang Dalis was determined to attack madrasa and shops nearby. It burnt down six shops in the market.

It also looted the houses of two prosperous grain merchants and set fire to a jeep belonging to a transporter. The bandh was total and all shops were closed. The mob was also determined to attack the families of some of the well to do Muslim shopkeepers. But they fled minutes before the attack and saved themselves. According to the SP. Police Thane rural Inspector Jagtap was outnumbered by the Bajrang Dal mob. He had just four constables with him. Murbad has no history of communal riots but now Shiv Sainiks and Bajrang Dal and VHP are becoming aggressive in all places and disturbing communal peace at any available opportunity.

The Police claimed that it fired 13 rounds in the air but the Minorities Commission said that it did not come across anyone who could corroborate the police claim. The Police claimed that they had arrested 32 people including the local Bajrang Dal leaders and charged them with attempted murder, arson and loot. The Muslims are a microscopic minority in Morbad and are afraid of giving any details of damage to the madrasa and are praising the role of the police, according to the Minorities Commission.

On 17th March communal incidents took place in Loharu in Bhivani district of Haryana. Loharu was once under a Muslim ruler and was know as Nawwaab of Loharu. There is thus Muslim population in this town. A mob of three hundred incited by the rumour of cow slaughter attacked two mosques and at least 15 shops and houses belonging to the minority community. The police had to fire in the air when the mob could not be controlled by can charge.

When the people belonging to the majority community heard that a cow has been taken for slaughter in one of the mosques, it set out to attack and set fire to this mosque and shops near the mosque were also not spared. According to a UNI report quoting the police sources said that a mob of 300 Shiv Sainiks set fire to another mosque near the railway station and set fire to many shops in Purana Bazar. And in this area all 15-20 shops and houses belonging to minority were burnt down. The palace of Nawwab of Loharu was also surrounded by a mob but additional reinforcements were requisitioned from other places and the palace was saved from being damaged.

Next incidents of communal violence took place in three places in Rajasthan in which three persons were killed on 25th March on the occasion of Muharram. The immediate provocation was the holding of poornahuti yagnas (a Hindu religious ritual) and kirtans for the Ram mandir at various temples on the route of tazia processions.

Curfew had to be clamped in the town of Gangapur, 80 kms from Sawai Madhopur, in central Rajasthan where 3 people were killed and 15 injured in police firing. According to the police violence broke out when activists of the VHP, BJP and Bajrang Dal collected at an ancient Hanumanji mandir for a yagna and kirtan. The police asked them not to gather but they defied police orders and began to shout provocative slogans when the tazia procession came closer to the temple. The police was compelled to open fire when tear-gassing and can charge had no effect.

The Gangapur city has 25% Muslim population and earlier was considered to be the stronghold of SIMI (Students Islamic Movement of India) in Rajasthan. It has always been prone to minor communal irritations although this is the first time that violence has erupted on such a large scale. In different parts of Southern Rajasthan where the Sangh Parivar has strong presence communal tension was simmering. But the situation was kept under control.

Gujarat was still simmering on the occasion of Holi in the last week of March. A Home Ministry official said on the eve of Holi that there was tension in Anand, Vadodra and Ahmedabad and the army had been called in again to stage flag march to instill a sense of security. He also said that stray incidents of communal violence had also taken place in Rajasthan, Haryana and Uttar Pradesh.

On the occasion of Holi on 30th March four persons were killed in communal violence in Akola. Of these four three were killed in police firing and 15 others were injured. The provocation was reportedly due to throwing of colour on a mosque in the old city area on Friday by some miscreants, Pankaj Gupta, Inspector General of Police, said. The police intervention arrested the situation from getting worse. Two persons were arrested for colour throwing. Incidents of stabbing and stone throwing again took place on Saturday after namaz when the police was making some arrests. However, according to Minority Commission Chairman of Maharashtra seven persons were killed in Akola disturbances and he has blamed the police for mishandling the situation.

In Haveri, Karnataka also the police had to open fire on the day of Holi to disperse two clashing groups, which were on the rampage and set fire to a few shops during the Holi revelries in Rattihalli, near Haveri. The disturbances started when some people belonging to minority group objected to the Holi procession which the other group ignored and went ahead with their programme.

On 5th April 3 there were bomb explosions outside three mosques in Hugli district, near Kolkata. Eight persons were injured in these explosions after the Friday prayers. When the police reached Chndr Nagor area of Sikon Bagan, the miscreants attacked the police with stones and ran away. There was hand grenade with one of the miscreant, which exploded and he was critically injured. Paramilitary forces and Rapid Action Force was called in to control the situation. In these disturbances one person died and 7 were injured and 30 persons were arrested.

Bahraich town in U.P. witnessed communal flare up on 1st April when some temples were desecrated and in retaliation a mausoleum was desecrated. The Purana Bazar locality of Nanpara area was gripped with communal tension as a result of the desecration. One person was arrested and security was tightened.

On April 10 Kalyan some 80 kms from Mumbai flared up resulting in loss of three lives. This was result of an old feud between two persons belonging to two different communities. Soon it resulted in mob violence, arson and loot. Curfew was imposed on the area. The clashes turned into communal one as the Shiv Sena claimed that of those dead, one is a Shiv Sainik. The police resorted to firing 10 rounds as the mob attacked the police van. The incidents started when a horse-carriage owner Salim Sheikh stabbed Ashok Walunj and Walunj stabbed Sheikh. Walunj died. Sheikh was also critically injured.

Walunjís mother died of shock and Sheikhís wife Naseem also died of wound. On hearing this a mob of 400 persons gathered leading to arson and loot. Fifteen houses, including a shop belonging to a Shiv Sainik, were burnt. Rohidaswada where the incidents took place has often witnessed communal tension.

On 20th April, communal clashes started after murder of a student who was allegedly killed by some people belonging to minority community. Security was tightened and Rapid Action Force was also deployed. Curfew was imposed after explosion of bomb near a police van. According to the police there was bomb explosion at one more place. Five persons of minority community were arrested. After the incidents in Mahow there were communal disturbances in two more villages in the vicinity. In Ashapur Gaon a person from minority community was shot dead and in Choradia too, one person from minority community was shot dead.

On 13th April two persons were killed in Nandurbar in Maharashtra one of whom was killed in police firing. Six were injured in the firing. One who was killed in police firing was Yogesh Rathore. Nandurbar is a tribal dominated town bordering Gujarat where communal violence continued since February. Trouble began in Kali Masjid locality when two groups clashed on game of cards. It soon turned into large-scale clashes next day. People threw stones and attacked each other. Deputy Superintendent of Police was also injured during these clashes. Seven houses were burnt in the town. Two journalists were also injured.

On 13th May in Saharanpur in U.P there were two bomb explosions outside a mosque, which resulted in communal tension. One more bomb was found in a shoe. There was a chit with it on which ëArya Senaí was written. It happened in Khan Alampura locality. On 14th May there were clashes between Hindus and Muslims in Badaun in U.P. on account of personal feud in a marriage. There was private firing and stone throwing in which 12 persons were badly injured. The clashes lasted for nearly three hours when police controlled them. The mob began setting fire to various properties. Sixty persons were arrested by the police.

On Ist June there were communal clashes in Tilaknagar area of Bangalore. The clashes started when some one took objection for taking out procession in front of a mosque. There was firing by the police to disperse the mob. One person was stabbed and thirteen persons were injured. Sixty persons were arrested by the police. The mob was indulging in stone throwing and setting fire to properties.

On 19th June three persons died in Jamner taluka of Jalgaon district two of whom died in police firing. One five -month old baby died of suffocation when its mother held it tight to her bosom to save the child. Of the three persons one died in police firing and two were burnt alive and one stabbed to death. 40 persons were injured. There was tension in the town since 7th June when a dead animal was thrown outside mosque. To start the riot one Ratnakar Padmakar Joshi stole the silver eyes of Hanuman idol on 15th June. He was arrested by the police and silver eyes were recovered from him. Subsequently the toll in Jamner rose to five and 22 were injured.

The one who died in police firing was Yusuf Khan Aziz Khan Pathan (32). Two others, Ramesh Mali (55) and an unidentified driver of a tempo were burnt alive while Shaikh Gulab Sheikh Aziz (24) was stabbed to death.

Subsequently the disturbances started in Jalgaon and Bhusaval too on 20th June. The Hindutvawadis declared bandh in the district and properties were set on fire. A driver Haji Riyaz Ahmed was burnt alive and many trucks and tempos were burnt in Jalgaon area. More than 100 persons were arrested. One Anis Ahmed was seriously wounded when attacked with sharp weapons. His intestines came out but he survived. One Rukhsanabi and her husband Abdul Aziz were also seriously wounded on the bandh day in Jamner. Some Hindus saved the lives of Muslims in Shashtrinagar.

In Pune there was an attempt to provoke communal riot on 31 July by throwing eggs wrapped in paper on three Ganesh temples. There erupted violence after discovery of these eggs in these temples. The police resorted to lathi charge to disperse the crowd. The security was tightened and three companies of state reserve police force was brought and 4 companies of strike force was also put in charge. These eggs were thrown near Ganesh temples in the darkness of night. As soon as this news spread people collected and began raising slogans. They divided themselves in three groups and forced people to close their shops. One group consisting of 400 persons proceeded towards a mosque despite the police attempt to dissuade them. They began stoning the Muslims coming out of mosque after prayer and Muslims also began throwing stones. Police resorted to cane charge and dispersed the crowd. The police said that Muslims showed lot of patience and this helped. However, the BJP convenor Khardekar gave call for bandh and this increased the tension. I is suspected that a Hindu Mahasabha ember is responsible for throwing the eggs.

On 21 September there erupted communal violence in Veejapur taluka of Aurangabad in Maharashtra on the occasion of Ganesh chaturthi. There was incident of stone throwing on the procession. The mob then set fire to 34 shops, 3 auto rickshaws, 4 motor cycles and one tempo were burnt. Police used tear gas and fired two rounds to disperse the mob. 21 persons were arrested. Six persons were injured. According to the police properties worth 50 thousand were destroyed.

Sholapur in Maharashtra erupted on 11th October in which about 9 persons were killed in all. The riots erupted when some Muslim organisation led by Muslim Vikas Parishad, relatively unknown organisation founded by a former journalist turned leader gave a call for observing bandh as Christian Baptist priest Jerry Falwell in America had called the Prophet of Islam as ëterroristí. The Muslim youth belonging to this organisation tried to force some Hindus to close their shops. The protesters went in procession after prayers on Friday afternoon and threw stones on a Navratri Pandal. Hindus reciprocated and riots broke out. More than 115 persons were injured and police arrested over 500 persons. Subsequently Muslims suffered heavy damages and large number of shops belonging to them were burnt down. Of all the dead five died in police firing and rest in cases of stabbings. The communal incidents went on for two days.

The Muslims suffered heavy damages in these riots. The Muslim leaders alleged that it was an attempt to ruin Muslims economically in Sholapur. A large number of Muslim shops in different areas were looted and then burnt down. They have lost more than 10 crores worth goods and properties.

Yet another communal incident took place in Badlapur in Thane district when some Hindu youth teased a college going Muslim girl on 20th October. There was private firing and five persons were injured. The police reached an hour later to this far-flung place and fired in the air to disperse the mob. The tension was brewing between the youth of two communities for more than a week. The mob set fire to a sawmill, a rice mill, several shops and some houses. 40 shops belonging to Muslims were set on fire, according to some sources. Over forty persons were arrested including two BJP corporators and one Muslim leader.

In Gujarat several places like Mehsana and Baroda witnessed communal frenzy again during and after recent elections in Gujarat. Most of the clashes took place during processions of victorious candidates in election.

On the last day of the year i.e. on 31st December too Gujarat witnessed rioting in Dahor. The communal disturbances started with some Muslims allegedly teasing an Adivasi girl. Both the groups Adivasis and Muslims clashed in which three persons were seriously injured. The police imposed curfew and 30 persons were arrested. Two shops were also set afire. The two groups fought with swords, lathis and other weapons.

Thus the year 2002 witnessed riots throughout India and particularly in Gujarat. As pointed out above Gujarat carnage shook the whole country and created a dubious record of brutal killing of Muslims with state complicity. This year will be remembered for this carnage for years to come.

(Centre for Study of Society and Secularism, Mumbai:- 400 094, India; E-mail:- csss@vsnl.com )

Thanks for your prompt answer, Veeresh. With the 60th anniversary recently, I have heard comments about how the whole world has benefited from the sacrifices of the Anglophone-US/UK/Anzac troops and how everyone else owes a debt of gratitude to them, which should have been repaid in Iraq.
However, since I do not live in Pakistan and the learned author is not my friendly neighbourhood hack, these were expressed views and not the news, as you pointed out.
While Vikram Batra and Hanifuddin are names I will teach my children, just as I learnt the name of Abdul Hamid, I wonder how those soldiers felt, because they were fighting for an ideal they had no experience of-democracy and freedom-does that make them mercenaries? (Again, akin to our author and his thoughts on Indian secularism and American freedom of speech, both of which are by no means perfect). Did they fight with India in mind, or King and Empire?
But if it`s not known, maybe it`s time to make it known. Maybe you could write something on that-even our author and his compatriots couldn`t really object-it was their army too.

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nb 58 . . . there was a letter in the Indian Express a few days ago bemoaning the fact that the real role of the Indian soldiers during WW-2 would never be known, hinting darkly at the glorification of soldiers from Europe/America in war movies/reports . . . if one goes through the variety of websites on war dead, one finds a large number of sub-Continental names from amongst those who died at sea around the same time . . . likewise the Africa, Arabia and Med theatres as also the Indo-China-Burma ops saw a lot of Indians.

Prof May`s book . . . ``The Forgotten Army : INA`` . . . gives some insight on why the Allies may have chosen to downplay the Indian participation. My copy got stolen and I need to find another one, but briefly, the involvement of Indian soldiers and officers as well as soldiers and officers from Ireland in taking on the Allies, was viewed as support for the Axis/Fascists.

The Military town of Dagshai (then called Daag E Shahi) in Himachal en route Shimla was where many Irish officers/soldiers were imprisoned by the British during WW-2, while the INA were scattered all over the country.

So, to get back to your question, did Indians participate in the D-Day landings? The answer I got when I visited Dunkirk from the local Indians there was a resounding YES. As cannon fodder and mine detectors, possibly, too.