Church vs Mosque

Arthur! I thought that you were a secular person, an activist with a motto ``secularize Pakistan``. But man! Now I am feeling, you are just a rebel to Islam: not the religion. Christianity is as bizzare as is Islam. It is however another matter that they have enclosed christianity in the church and it remains in the form of symbols. and Islam is still out of the bottle needed to be restricted to a mosque.

Next time you visit a Church, Ask any Nun if she would like to go for a date with you coming weekend... :)

Arthur! Next time, visit a Synagogue. I am interested in knowing something about ``Bani Israel``.

Shiraz,
I think you drank too much. Have you ever been to faisal mosque in Islamabad? I have seen women praying in that mosque.

limited! very limited! dont be so easily influenced. have you ever tried reading the translation of the Quran? then you`ll know what poerty is. also, u have equated Islam with the conditions of Pakistan. poor country, and pathans that think walls are public bathrooms is not Islam. hmmmm i think i feel an article coming up. thanx for the inspiration though

With all due respect, the practice of religion in Islam does include poetry in the form of naats, hamds, qawwali, soz, salam, nauha, marsia, etc. Please take some time out to explore these literary works including famous pieces by Allama Iqbal.

We should respect all religions and places of worship and not base our opinions on an entire people based on limited personal observations and experiences.

True mosques in the US do not treat women fairly, and this is according to proper Islamic code of conduct unethical and improper. Muslims often do not practice what they preach and today they do not even preach what they are supposed to preach. Therefore, we must be carefull not to judge a religion based on its followers.

Arthur Shiraz - you wrote ``as I fantasized about taking her out, getting her drunk on wine and making out with her.``

Yep, no beautiful and intelligent and reasonable girl will make out with you while she is still sober.

The bottomline of attending even a worship service for you is to find yourself an opportunity to bang a girl ! This kind of treatment of women stinks much worse than the smell of urine you apparently experienced in some places.

one cannot possibly understand how christians live just by ``infiltrating`` a church on a sunday. but then again, some people fail to understand. full isstop.

We as Muslims are so uncouth, so primitive and so uncivilized, we don’t even sing! Sure a Muezzin tries to sing the words of the same Azans over and over again but not all Muezzins can recite it well and those who are bad are awful and besides where are the words I can understand? Where is the poetry? Where is the music? … ooh we suck”

In my brief existance on this earth, perhaps this is the first time I have heard that a place is ``uncivilized`` as it did not have music. My work place doesnt have music, should I consider moving to a more ``civilized`` place?

Your piece is funny in sense that it reminds me of the hardcore islamic litrature which says the same thing about christianity but with a twist, that they have made their religion into song and dance. Sorry for being judgmental buddy but your ideas reak of the same stuff, of blind hatred and stupid arguments to support your one sided view, not capable of understanding or tolerating of the views opposite to your own.

Fahad

shiraz:
Not one of your best! The purpose of visiting a place of worship is to fulfil one`s spiritual needs, not carnal desire. Remember!
tera dil to hai sanam-aashna
tujhe kya milega namaz mein
applies as well to the gospels...

re: Shiraz

Pakistan is a poor third-world country compared to America. So it is not surprising that American Churches are better equipped and their staff is better trained than Pakistani mosques and staff.

However there are a few mosques in Pakistan that meet the same standards as any American church. The ones I can think of are Shah Faisal Mosque in Islamabad... and the Defence Mosque in Lahore (which is much smaller but very well maintained).

And by the way, American Churches are nothing in comparison with the quality and staff of Saudi Arabian mosques. A wealthy country can indeed afford to spend more on its places of worship than a poorer one.

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kaura#11
Last Sunday, I met an Afghan guy who is an expert in Indian classical music. He told me that the all verses in the Quran are also set to `raagas`, called Muqaams in Arabic. Apparently, there are twelve muqaams which are analogous to our raagas.

It is NOT about Money, It`s About Values.

``American Churches are nothing in comparison with the quality and staff of Saudi Arabian mosques. A wealthy country can indeed afford to spend more on its places of worship than a poorer one. `` #10 by HisExcellency on September 7, 2004 1:31pm PT

The point is not how much money you can spend on a house of worship. What matters is how clean it is. You can spend millions and then the people who visit it can stink of urine , what will you do about that? Force all of them to take a shower on a day that is not friday ? Or perhaps you may want to force all to wear some under arm deodrant ?

You can spend all your oil money and adorn all your environs but then right after prayers your fellow worshipper takes out a stick and starts brushing his teeth with a stick. A part of the stick falls into his copious beard covered in saliva, what will you do about that ? You may say that ``Our people are illiterate we have to educate them`` but we see western-educated doctors and engineers becoming fanatical and behaving like this. And why do western-educated people behave like an Arab Bedouin from the 6th century? Because they want to ``imitate the Prophet``!

You can install the deepest and most frangrant of carpets but you will not have the sense to put chairs because our religion Islam involves squatting on the floor like an animal.

You may buy Benz and BMWs and you may have lots of money and a western education but if someone brainwashes you into a devout version of Islam you will find yourself sniffing and drinking camel urine as a ``cure`` for the common cold. Why because the Prophet himself prescribed it!

One doesn`t have to be a devout Arab Muslim or a Pathan to believe in this nonsense. All you need is enough ``Faith`` as the Mullah would say, or all you need is enough Islamic brainwashing as I would say. I have seen with my own eyes people who were modern and moderate and westernized who married their daughters off at at the age of 6 and 9 because their religion states that it is ok for girls so young to be married at that age (the clerics in Iran recently raised the age of consent for a girl to 7 to prevent child abuse and molestation).

Education and money will not solve your problems. Our religion is the culprit. Don`t you see that following this religion debases you and our own people. Don`t you see that Islam turns us into sub human animals?

You can decorate your mosques with gold and ornament and you will not find peace nor respect because our religion Islam turns your people into demons that inhabit the worst recesses of the world : demons that breathe hate and anger and vengeance and harbor thoughts of evil, demons who will betray their own ``god`` when it is convenient for them to do so.

You may become westernized and allow women into the mosque but what will you do about your women cowering and squatting in the back of the mosques?

Things are NOT hopeless, there are better alternatives to Islam out there but it is you who have to have the courage to go and find it. Be brave and venture forth into the unknown, the only thing you have to lose is the darkness you are emerging from. Look for values, not wealth for all that glitters is not gold.

If your heart is pure it will seek values of love and forgiveness and cleanliness and punctuality (when did your religion talk about punctuality?) or values of saving money and being inventive and values of embracing the world without using religion or piety as an excuse or garb to do evil (has your religion ever discouraged you from becoming too PIOUS or too literal in your interpretation of the texts? has it perhaps encouraged you to look at other religions and to become part of the marketplace of ideas? or has it tried to persecute, bomb, massacre members of other religions as is the case in Islamic countries?)

Those who persecute other religions are preventing you from finding better religions. They are bombing churches and killing Christians and persecuting them because they don`t want you to find out about better things. Can`t you see that?

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Shiraz, seems like Church’s are potentially good pickup points. Thanks for informing us!! Just one thing, could you please let us know where your mom goes?? Doesn’t sound good if someone of us try to pick her up…

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