Questions About Thursday’s Attack

veeresh#7
The guy who reported that Dawood Ibrahim was in Karachi while Musharraf was in India denying it, went missing for two days.

One suspects that not only the press but the civilian police`s investigations are also circumscribed by paranoid intelligence agencies, which are tying themselves into knots maintaining plausible deniability and deniable plausibility for their old friends.

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Omar:

After 9/11 it has been decided by the powers that be that we cannot allow militant Islamists anywhere in the world. They have to be targettedly killed (targetted killing of many a militant Islamic leaders all over the world is an evidence). The sooner we accept this, the better for all of us. This is the ground reality.

The ground reality is also that militant Islam was created and supported by the USA, Saudis and Pakistanis (our military) together in the 80s. However, that was another era and the requirements of the time were different. This is another era and requirements are totally different. Pakistanis should have discerned the changing patterns long time ago. We were a kuain ka maindak. When the whole world was progressing, we were actually retrogressing in the 90s.

The ground reality is also that if the evil was created and supported beyond the requiremnts of the time by our military, then it should also clean up the mess.

The ground reality is that standing at daggers drawn with Pakistani army like PPP and PML N (or even JI under Qazi Hussain) will do common Pakistanis no good. At this critical juncture, we have to support leaders from within army and from our society to start cleaning up the mess.

The ground reality is also that the militants having full cooperation from within deep military/ISI/Police and elsewhere are capable of pulling every kind of trick out of their bags.

As it is, Pakistan military will only wipe out militants under American/Western encouragement / support / pressure. Let us hope that this pressure is maintained on us for our own benefit.

Finally, I would like Pakistan to keep its eyes open on another front. Although our friends may support us to wipe out militancy that threatens them, they may actually encourage violence within the country`s boundary to keep us destabilized for some future plans. Although this apprehension may be far-fetched, there is no harm in keeping ourselves prepared for a pessimistic scenario (sensitivity analysis sort of).

Educating omar,

When more than a million people throng around jihadis in madreke, showing off their jihadic prowess, I wonder what the police were doing?
When fully armed jihadis cross over to kashmir to kill the infidels, I wonder what the army was doing?
When there are posters all over pakistan recruiting for jihadis, I wonder what the educated of pakistan and the dawn editors were doing?

Omar you disappoint me, being in pakistan, you have come up with such stupid questions about the karachi attack. This is pathetic.

This refers to coment no:4 by Tmk. the people mentioned were not mentioned on an individual choice. These are the namess educated, un educated people, elite or others, may name when jumping to conclusions. hence forth, as the little opinion that i shared placed emphasis on the role of security agencies , that is what one should really consider. Anyhow, i give all due respect to ur response. I personally as a law student name no culprits unless proper evidence is given to prove that.

veeru:

there is no denying the validity of some of your major claims re: pak media...

--there is a lack of tradition of investigative journalism...the brief flare lit up by razia bhatti almost extinguished now...(there are some brave exceptions -- in the urdu press and fewer in the english... they are being rendered ineffective in other ways)

--while only recently the government has shown greater tolerance towards media freedom...it wasn`t always so in the past...and even this you have to take with a grain of salt...(mushy personally verbally abused the ARY network and stopped them from releasing a pre-recorded interview of Shahbaz Sharif while he was enroute to lahore)...hopefully this new found freedom will produce in future some good investigative reporters and journalists

--this country is lawless or has one law...depending on how you look at it...for the masses there is quaide -e- azam (on currency bills)...and for the vested interests...the rich and powerful there is another set of laws...their own...one needs not laws where muscles or the threat of using them will do...this i suspect is the main reason that hinders media to do its job properly...(forget terrorists and locqal government...some scribes were stopped from doing a semi investigative piece because the owner/managers and the media owners were family friends)...the writers are under threat from unknown and powerful quarters...and this threat is ever pervasive!

...hence, the truth is always in the gray area...

rgds,

t


ps: sorry for posting it in error on my thread

veeru:

there is no denying the validity of some of your major claims re: pak media...

--there is a lack of tradition of investigative journalism...the brief flare lit up by razia bhatti almost extinguished now...(there are some brave exceptions -- in the urdu press and fewer in the english... they are being rendered ineffective in other ways)

--while only recently the government has shown greater tolerance towards media freedom...it wasn`t always so in the past...and even this you have to take with a grain of salt...(mushy personally verbally abused the ARY network and stopped them from releasing a pre-recorded interview of Shahbaz Sharif while he was enroute to lahore)...hopefully this new found freedom will produce in future some good investigative reporters and journalists

--this country is lawless or has one law...depending on how you look at it...for the masses there is quaide -e- azam (on currency bills)...and for the vested interests...the rich and powerful there is another set of laws...their own...one needs not laws where muscles or the threat of using them will do...this i suspect is the main reason that hinders media to do its job properly...(forget terrorists and locqal government...some scribes were stopped from doing a semi investigative piece because the owner/managers and the media owners were family friends)...the writers are under threat from unknown and powerful quarters...and this threat is ever pervasive!

...hence, the truth is always in the gray area...

rgds,

t


ps: sorry for posting it in error on my thread

Ijaz/5 and Temporal/6 . . . and others . . . I think Ijaz-Gul raises some valid points here. But my point, as an Indian with enough exposure to Pakistan below my belt, is this:-

For decades now, the ``bad guys``, whoever they are, have surely been known to the Pakistani media. I refuse to believe that all of them in the Pakistani media are living in some isolated island, and are not able to move beyond playing childhood games where whatever Simple Simon says/said is taken as truth. I mean, how is it that the Pan-Am hijacking, the Bhutto massacre, and other Karachi specials are so easily forgotten?

Therefore, when the bombs and guns start turning inwards, for the bespoke Pakistani media to start bleating around is just so much to take.

There is an old adage about policing in India, probably true in Pakistan also - where the alleged suspect is/are well built and appear to have training, then do also look at the nearest cantonments as well as places of religious significance.

So here`s one more for those reading this - the real bad guy hanging around within Clifton has been going through some major gender re-construction lately.

ijaz;)

more questions:

--complicity
--broad daylight
--firing from at least three angles
--number of rounds fired
--target # 1 in all of khi (Gov and CM next in order)
--rest hinted by ijaz

Omar and Romair,

Last year Herald did an excellent supplement on terrorism in Pakistan. The report was very accurate and named individulas whose footprints were found right from the bombing of a church in Bahawalpur to Taxila. Recently one name also surfaced in the attempt on the President`s life. It is again being mentioned now.

The same names are also mentioned in the net when one tries to search atricles on the beheadding of Daniel Pearl.

Romair, if you read this, this is the reference I was talking about.
Cheerios

Sumaiya,

Please, leave Israel out of this. These conspiracy theories about the Israelis trying to take out Pakistani Generals should not be taken seriously. The Israelis had nothing to do with this attack, so please don`t say such things.

yes mr. omer nice question raised by you....
but u remember the incident happend at baloch colony bridge... firing and gernade attack on a van of rangers and they get away too at that time when thre is rush of traffic on shahra-e-faisal.....

i dont know why this all hapening... but who. i am sure off.. its the government...

Who has done it? Tribesmen in Wana or Raw or America or Israel? This is the second question. The first and most important question is, ``What were the security and Intelligence forces of Pakistan doing?What have the Police and the Rangers been doing? Has, the ISI, suddely become weak? Certainly, the all powerful army of Pakistan lies threatened if even just a little. The security forces of Pakistan are in a terribly pathetic state, if the very service that they are supposed to provide- protection of citizens and the stae, lies unfulfilled.

---

Battle with militants comes full circle
By Zaffar Abbas
BBC, Islamabad

The latest military operation against suspected al-Qaeda militants and renegade tribesmen in South Waziristan is also the fiercest in recent months.
And it is the first clear proof that after several rounds of clashes and peace talks, the situation in the troubled tribal region has come full circle.

With more than 60 people, including 15 troops, already dead in three days of clashes, all hopes of a peaceful resolution of the conflict seem to have been dashed.

And with the security forces using jets, helicopter gunships and heavy artillery to pound the militants` hideouts, and the suspected Islamic extremists responding with rockets and mortars, the mountainous region outside the town of Wana is likely to look like a ``war zone`` for many weeks, if not months.

Support for Taleban

South Waziristan is fast proving to be Achilles` heel for the Pakistani security establishment.

Faced with growing pressure from the United States, Islamabad has tried every possible way to address the issue.

It managed to tame most parts of the semi-autonomous tribal region by using the so-called carrot-and-stick policy, but still failed to persuade the rugged tribesmen of South Waziristan to give up their support for the Taleban and other Islamic militants like Uzbeks, Chechens and Arabs living in the area.

Earlier this year the Pakistani security forces blundered by launching a military operation against the Waziri tribesmen for whom taking part in guerrilla warfare is a way of life.

Those who mostly defied the military were Ahmedzai Wazir tribesmen, led by 27-year-old Nek Mohammed.

Peace talks

The first military offensive resulted in heavy casualties on the two sides, with the security forces losing more men than in any other operation at home.


For the Pakistani establishment South Waziristan is certainly proving to be more difficult to handle than was initially anticipated.

It soon compelled the authorities to agree to the mediation offered by some tribal leaders.
As a result the military`s corps commander for the north-western region, Lt Gen Safdar Hussain, met Nek Mohammed and others at a tribal jirga or assembly.

A peace deal was struck, raising hopes for a negotiated settlement.

Nek Mohammed was once again declared a ``patriot``, only to be termed a ``petty criminal`` a few weeks later.

Differences on the interpretation of the peace agreement surfaced within no time.

The government said all the foreign nationals living in the area were required to register with the authorities.

The foreign militants refused to do so, and were backed by the rebel tribesmen. Soon the peace agreement was history.

All out war

The latest offensive was preceded by a bloody rocket attack on a number of military check posts in the area, in which nine paramilitary troops were killed.

The military decided to declare an all-out war against the Islamic militants.

But although a number of militants` hideouts in the mountains were destroyed during the latest offensive, so far the operation has failed to produce the desired results.

For the Pakistani establishment South Waziristan is certainly proving to be more difficult to handle than was initially anticipated.

In fact, it is becoming more dangerous. Observers say that if it is true that the recent armed attack on a military commander in Karachi was in retaliation for the events in Waziristan, the situation is becoming even more alarming.

It shows that local militant groups sympathetic to Waziri tribesmen are prepared to take their war to mainland Pakistan, in particular cities like Karachi.

But with American troops constantly watching from across the border in Afghanistan, it will not be easy for Pakistani security forces to give up their anti-militant drive so easily.

Yet, they know there are no easy ways to solve the problem.

The Pakistani authorities are hoping is that with the latest offensive, most of the local and foreign militants will soon be eliminated - and without their troops suffering too heavily.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/3800055.stm

Published: 2004/06/11 21:26:29 GMT

© BBC MMIV

Welcome to the reality, the bottom line is terrorists ran away as they planned obviuosly some of the police/army/forces might be in terrorists continous contact otherise they could never have gone away it was suicide mission turned into a get-way gorila whatever mission. Valid questions raised indeed by omer!
Whos next? I think theer will be some attacks in Lahore and other major cities specially Islamabad-- someone wana bet?