Questions About Thursday’s Attack

the targetting of karachi and turning into an erstwhile industrial estate to a terrorism playground is that, no other city in the world has experienced this gruesome state of affairs. this also entails the fact that karachi or pakistan carries some unrevealed truth which could be looked up at as honour and envy for others.

some value of importance is lingering still, the diamond hasn`t lost its shine yet, as we see robbers clobbering around and smoking with smoking guns.

lets wait and c, if the curtain is raised before the public is gone away along with prestige.

hahah zaraJ -- youre cluelessness could be excused if it werent for the rudeness that came with it -- i suggest u look up t he dictionary and move beyond the literal definition of forum -- yes actually can have a forum in print -- its called the letters section -- a person writes a letter which can spark off a debate and others can respond -- that qualifies as a forum -- obviously that is beyond your rather infantile comprehension and disposition -- just so that u dont make an ass of yourself again zahra, for a print journalist a forum of discussion would be the letters to the editor page, the op-ed page and so on while for an tv j ournalist a forum would be something like a call-in show -- as for the rest of your drivel i rather ignore it than to stoop to your childish level

wonder what the paki-bashers will say about this:

BJP stands by Modi

NEW DELHI, June 20: India`s opposition Hindu nationalists on Sunday shot down renewed calls to dismiss Gujarat`s hardline leader, who is accused of abetting anti-Muslim violence in the western state.

``There is no proposal to change the leadership of Gujarat at this juncture,`` Venkaiah Naidu, president of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), told reporters after a meeting of top party leaders in New Delhi.

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had come under fresh scrutiny after police said they gunned down four Muslims, including a 19-year-old woman, last Tuesday because they allegedly plotted to assassinate the state leader.

India`s ruling Congress party has suggested that the shootout was a set-up to build sympathy for Modi and demanded an impartial probe. Former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, breaking with his party`s longstanding backing of Modi, said last week that a BJP national meeting set to start on Tuesday in Mumbai would consider replacing the Gujarat leader.

Vajpayee also said for the first time that anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat, which left 2,000 people dead in 2002, contributed to the BJP`s upset election defeat in April-May elections.

But Vajpayee`s remarks led hardliners to rally around Modi, who had been facing calls for his resignation even from some BJP lawmakers in Gujarat. Vajpayee took part in Sunday`s BJP meeting, which was seen as an attempt to clear up intra-party disputes instead of airing them publicly at the Mumbai convention. -AFP

Omar: How can you have a forum discussion in print ? The more you talk the more you expose your ignorance. Which world are you living in? Probably, you should learn to develop yourself outside of D.a.w.n. On the flip side, I do not blame you for your ignorance since that`s the hallmark of your surroundings. Since I have very little interest in interacting with immature ignorants, I would leave you with a final thought for your personal growth and development. Do look up the difference between ``interaction`` and ``outbursts.`` Apparently, you are way too naive to comprehend that. Oh, you can consult online webster for that. No need to rush to your local bookstore to get a thesaurus. Ok. Keep on un.educating your readership. Best Wishes.

ballu jee:``I would suggest that you stop playing around with the pak-bashing thingy- and get down to some real solid journalism. Try to gather evidences, build up stories, tail the military elites, expose them, raise the voice of the opressed, write about the `root causes` of killings in karachi`` -- thanks for the solid advice ballu jee -- i have jotted all this down and we will get working on it pronto!

dost sahib -- i am talking of a forum in print not online -- 95 per cent of dawn`s letters are rejected because of reasons of space -- im sure the rejection figures at the indian express of the time of india is even higher since they publish fewer letters and probably get more than say dawn -- that doesnt mean that the forum isnt free dost sahib -- where u said: ``If I feel the need to write to your newspaper again, I would still do it the old fashion way and would want it to be published only if it meets your paper`s selection criteria. Still, thanks for the offer of help.`` -- dost sahib who suggested to u not to go about the traditional way -- and i never said i would be doing u or anyone else any favours -- but there is a difference in the editor`s secy downloading 200-300 letters and in me giving one to him directly -- that way it wont get lost in the flood of mail -- thats what i was suggesting dost sahib --

zahraJ -- i am talking about a forum for discussion IN PRINT -- and thanks for going to the trouble of posting the definition of forum -- i think i already knew much of it

Omar sahib:
I never said that Dawn is unique among newspapers in not being a free forum for discussion - though more and more newspapers now have interactive discussion forums in their online editions. When you say that 95% of the letters to the newspaper are rejected, you are basically agreeing with me.
If I feel the need to write to your newspaper again, I would still do it the old fashion way and would want it to be published only if it meets your paper`s selection criteria. Still, thanks for the offer of help.

Omar: For your education, the definition of a forum and an example is provided.
Forum: 1 a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper) of open discussion or expression of ideas 2 : a judicial body or assembly : COURT 3 a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities. Source: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=FORUM
I do not have the luxury of time to educate you on the essence of ``Discussion`` and ``Open.`` Please help yourself. Checkout the following newspaper`s online edition to learn more about ``online forums.``
- NY Times

Good Luck!

#48 by omar_r_quraishi on June 17, 2004 5:27am PT

I would suggest that you stop playing around with the pak-bashing thingy- and get down to some real solid journalism. Try to gather evidences, build up stories, tail the military elites, expose them, raise the voice of the opressed, write about the `root causes` of killings in karachi

---

and avoid the stereotypes in order to sell your story!!

dost saheb -- even on chowk the editors do have some discretion, or dont they ? we get 200-300 letters every day and can print only 15 at most -- so u do the math dost jee -- next time email them to me directly and ill see if they can be printed --

nb - i know its back in business duh -- but it did go bust because the vajpayee govt, esp mr fernandes, ordered the CBI to go after it --

dost sahib -- she asked whether we had a forum for our paper and that is the forum -- all forums are moderated in varying degrees -- besides how else is a print newspaper supposed to have a `free` forum -- and if u read the letters pages of most english papers, they are quite `free` in their criticism -- the only difference i see between chowk and those columns is that chowk has no problem with personal attacks -- i am not sure if that kind of forum can be called `free` in the true sense of the world -- there has to be some responsibility with what u post which is why i post with my full name here and my profession and even emails are in the public realm -- now i dont see most people doing that on chowk and hiding behind their nicks -- in any newspaper their submission would not even be considered unless they gave their full name and address and contact number -- if u r contending that this kind of forum has a validity equal to that of in a newspaper then the same rules should apply -- besides, could u tell me if any indian newspaper offers the kind of `free` forum that you are talking about dost sahib?

DT EDITORIAL: The diabolical nexus

This newspaper has reported in its June 17 issue that the maulvi of a mosque in Green Town, a locality in Lahore, sexually assaulted a six-year-old boy Talha. As generally happens in such cases, the boy was sent to the mosque by his parents to learn the Holy Quran. The news makes clear that while the police has apprehended the maulvi, the parents of the unfortunate victim are facing pressure from some religious outfits to drop the case and not press charges. We are not surprised either by the incident or the fact that some religious groups should deem fit to come out in support of a criminal. Such sorts are notorious for committing acts of buggery to a point where bawdy jokes about them are quite common. Similarly, to think that such groups or personages are inclined to act more morally than us mortals is laughable.

So why should we be writing about it if we are not surprised by the incident and its aftermath? Clearly, just because something wrong happens frequently does not make it right. It is the responsibility of the state and society to ensure that non-consensual sex (as opposed to consensual sex) and paedophilia must be treated as crimes and their perpetrators punished. So if there is evidence against this fellow, he must get what he deserves under the law. It is ridiculous that in a country where consensual sex is treated as a crime because it is deemed a sin or where two consenting adults cannot even marry each other without being killed or arrested, religious groups should come out in support of a paedophile.

But there are a few other aspects of this problem also. Does the government have any data on the number of mosques in various cities and across the country? The answer is no. There are guesstimates but no real verifiable data. Why? Because mosque-building remains an unregulated business. We know how the element of sanctity linked with the mosque is utilised by charlatans to grab land and how it is important for ‘graduates’ of madrassahs to find mosques because they are otherwise unemployable. The problem is that just like the mosques are unregulated, so the government is unaware of who occupies them and to what purpose. Police officers in Karachi know that religious gangs fight over possession of mosques and use these places to brainwash people, generate funds and hide terrorists, and even to make illegal commercial use of them.

There is a diabolical nexus among these elements: the fundamentalist preaching madrassah and sectarian mosque, and other acts of bigotry and terrorism. In fact, what the maulvi has done in Green Town is a criminal act at the low end of this murky spectrum. Can something be done?

Yes. Given clear evidence that many mosques and madrassahs are involved in sectarian and other terrorism, the state needs to firmly decide to regulate their affairs. It must legislate to decide the optimum number of mosques required for purely religious purposes determined by the population of a locality, acceptable noise and congestion levels, and the capacity of each mosque. Mosque-building must be regulated and no one should be allowed to construct a mosque anywhere he likes. Sectarian sermons should be declared a crime. The sub-literature in Islam is overflowing with sectarianism. It is the modern state’s responsibility to keep the lid firmly on it. The state must ensure that all mosques are listed with the religious ministry and all khateebs are vetted by the ministry. Religious circles of course are likely to fall, ironically, on the liberal argument and say it is not the state’s responsibility to regulate religion. True, but only if it can be proved that religion is not translating itself into societal strife and violence. The evidence here is that it is. It then becomes the responsibility of the state to secure the life and property of its citizens and ensure that no harm comes to them on the basis of their beliefs.

But none of this can happen if the state has someone like Ijaz-ul Haq manning the religious ministry and writing op-eds in newspapers that clearly show where his bias resides. A good step taken by the government is to nominate enlightened members to the Council of Islamic Ideology, a body that had almost become comic because it was stuffed previously by literalists. Now the government needs to do the same with the religious ministry. *

No reply to my questions on the attempt to kill Sonu Nigam. Hmm.

omar saheb:
``zahraJ -- we have a discussion forum in dawn - its called teh letters to the editors page``

With due respect, there is a difference between a free forum and ``the letters to the editors`` page of a newspaper, where everything is at the discretion of the editor. For example, I sent letters to Dawn 2-3 times and they were never published [Quite possibly, they did not meet your newspaper`s criteria for publication and I have no complaints, just pointing out the difference!].

Oomar, in case you haven`t noticed, tehelka is back in business. It coudln`t be kept out of business. Just thought I`d update you, though it has been some months.
You`re welcome.
The Indian Army only does army-stuff, they don`t rule the country and censor newspapers, so there isn`t all that much to expose with them.
How do you know you`re sensible? Bin Laden probably thinks he`s sensible too.

zahraJ -- we have a discussion forum in dawn - its called teh letters to the editors page -- as for imposing any newspaper as a holy book, open your eyes zahraJ and see that most people tend to quote dawn all the time, so if you have such a problem tell them the same thing too -- besides, the paki-bashers quote their choicy newspapers all the time -- i never see u saying anything to them -- ``we`` -- im not sure if i use it a lot and if i do im talking about sensible people and with reference to chowk prob sensible pakistanis and i suppose this doesnt include u zahraJ :)

zahraJ : ``You CAN only represent yourself. You are also trying to build an India vs. Pakistan thing on Chowk. Whenever you feel insecure, you run to hide behind Dawn. Whenever that is brought up, you start whining about getting personal. I sense some insecurity here. Whatever. I am least interested in your tactics to gain attention, but your desperation is very obvious. I do not read Dawn. Apparently, quite a few on Chowk are or have been on Dawn`s payroll and you want to remind them more than they want to acknowledge. It certainly highlights your professionalism! Please continue setting a superb example. Lastly, I really like Garfield. In fact, I love Garfield. But there should be some difference between ``ferocious`` little cats and human beings. You missed the ``unspelled out`` point again. That`s fine. I understand your constant need to secure attention. Probably, Chowk`s Admin should provide you with your own corner on Chowk and you will be in peace.

wake up zahra -- the india vs pakistan thing existed long before on chowk before i arrived and its exacerbated (hope u know what that means) by the paki-bashers here -- as for being on dawn`s ``payroll`` and also being on chowk, well guess what missy its a bit logical since this is a site apparently devoted to writing and journalism has some link with writing and dawn is a newspaper -- so there r bound to be people on dawn`s ``payroll`` who also might come on chowk -- i am in peace zahraJ trust me, seems your obviously not -- and whether u read a certain newspaper or dont thats yoru choice -- i dont ever advocating on this site or any other forum that people read dawn -- u need to chill zahraJ perhaps there is time for redemption (hope u know what that means) zahra -- my ``constant need to secure attention``, zahraJ, can easily be defeated by the way if u choose to not respond to me :) -- and by the way seriously open your eyes a bit and see what some of the other interactios -- paki-bashers et al -- do here --

ballu jee: ``I am asking you to talk about YOURSELF because I have littel information about what the journalists are doing to expose the Pakistani police and military- or may be there is nothing to expose` since these two institutions are the cleanest and the sniffing journalist does not know where his snout is leading him to....................!! `` -- pakistani newspapera are littered withr eports against the police -- just log on to any site -- and by the way tell me something -- has the indian media done anything to expose the military -- oh now i remember tehelka did that i think and they were driven out of business by the former govt -- isnt that right ballu jee

Reg- omar_r_quraishi

In case you missed it!!

-taking off from your point i would like to know the perception of the police in india and instances of police brutality in india against minorities, women, dalits etc --

You mis-understand! I am not into the comparison game- it is just that the atrocities by Indian police is well documented by Indian media and TV- infact the TV is also doing a very good job of exposing the police excesses in India- the communal face of Indian police in Gujrat and elsewhere is pathetically clear.

I am asking you to talk about YOURSELF because I have littel information about what the journalists are doing to expose the Pakistani police and military- or may be there is nothing to expose` since these two institutions are the cleanest and the sniffing journalist does not know where his snout is leading him to....................!!

Omar Sahib/44 - thank you for the information on the Serena Hotel package to Hunza/Gilgit . . . and I would very very dearly wish to go there. A Dutch couple I know, who travel all over the world as a sort of hobby, spent three months in that part of the world and came back with tales and photographs which still, years later, enthrall.

The only reason I posted the information on J&K hotel prices was to give you and others an idea of the costs involved. With the recent close co-operation between the Armed Forces of our countries now extending towards nullifying the same group of ``bad guys`` in position, we expect the 2004-2005 tourist season in J&K as well as Ladakh to exceed all expectations. As I mentioned previously, flights and railway bookings are sold out, sections of the Jammu - Srinagar railway line are ready way ahead of schedule, and railway wagons are being flown from Chennai to Srinagar to operate the Srinagar - Qazigund section even before it is linked to the national grid.

The Dal Lake is, finally, getting its ``life`` back (environmentally) and I have been meeting up with Kashmiri tour operators on notes towards a regular car rally into the Valley.

What am I saying, Omar ji?

What I am saying, Omar Sahib and others, is that Kashmir is about to stop ``bleeding`` the rest of India. Nothing is ever in a state of steady inertia in life. Perception and/or fact, the realities of life are that democracy assimilates, and a free media is a major part of that. The results we are seeing in Kashmir taday.

So if you REALLY want to wonder how and why a van full of bullet holes got away so easily in Karachi rush-hour traffic, then I would strongly suggest that the Pakistani media get real about reportage instead of pushing the same tired lines.

The gunmen have now returned to their homes. Sad to observe that you are their neighbours. Not us anymore. We are trying to move ahead.

To end, since what is happening in Karachi is like a replay of what we had in India, I quote from a recent article at Outlook:-



Not In My Name

What was the ostensible reason for targeting innocent tourists in Pahalgam? An Al-Nasreen spokesman apparently told PTI that the tourists were ``spreading vulgarity in the valley which they could not tolerate``. I think we must tell them what we cannot tolerate. Updates

SHABNAM ALI






zarra zarra mere kashmir kaa mehmaan nawaaz
raastoN ke pathroN ne bhii diyaa paanii mujhe

Chakbast

(Each small particle of my Kashmir is hospitable
Even the wayside stones provided water to me)

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20040614&fname=shabnam&sid=1

Omar: From what I gather, you are used to slapping your reader with an editorial with little realization that they may differ with you. You do NOT know how to interact. Period. And, that`s when I suggested (a little indirectly and sarcastically) to think about introducing a discussion forum for Dawn where you can read different perspectives. Somehow, it seems that you are trying to impose Dawn as a holy book. Most of your interactions rely on ``we.`` Who is the ``we`` here? Do you represent Pakistan or the Pakistanis all over the world ? Get down from your high horse! You CAN only represent yourself. You are also trying to build an India vs. Pakistan thing on Chowk. Whenever you feel insecure, you run to hide behind Dawn. Whenever that is brought up, you start whining about getting personal. I sense some insecurity here. Whatever. I am least interested in your tactics to gain attention, but your desperation is very obvious. I do not read Dawn. Apparently, quite a few on Chowk are or have been on Dawn`s payroll and you want to remind them more than they want to acknowledge. It certainly highlights your professionalism! Please continue setting a superb example.

Lastly, I really like Garfield. In fact, I love Garfield. But there should be some difference between ``ferocious`` little cats and human beings. You missed the ``unspelled out`` point again. That`s fine. I understand your constant need to secure attention. Probably, Chowk`s Admin should provide you with your own corner on Chowk and you will be in peace.

Best Wishes.

tmk -- doesnt matter where i went -- my colleague -- editor at herald never went abroad to study and his english is great and so is several of my dawn colleagues, many of whom never went abroad -- and several schoolmates who did go abroad have english which isnt all that great -- you`re missing the point -- im not humouring her languagle skills but her inability to communicate what she is trying to say -- hence the suggestion to try urdu

shri harish jee -- here i am -- whats this nonsense about not showing up? -- ever heard of time difference shri harish jee?

shri veeresh jee -- thanks for the J&K info but no thanks -- incidentally serena hotels in pakistan is offering a pretty good package too -- 5 nights for Rs 15,000 -- two have to be in islamabad (a fine hotel) and three at their hotels either in hunza or gilgit --

veeresh sahib -- how typical of u -- yes i now remember saying that me and wife do plan to go up north but veeresh sahib when we have the time -- she teaches at a local business school while i am up to my ears in work -- and if and when we can squeeze it in july before our delhi trip we will do that -- but i never said that i would write about it an dpost it on chowk, did i veeresh sahib -- and by the way ever heard of a boss not letting u go on leave because other colleagues are away -- well that happens every summer in dawn too -- i dont know why u feel so slighted -- for u a slip means this ??? that i said i would go up north in pakistan and forgot that i said it -- wow !!! pathetic veeresh jee, pathetic --

zahraJ -- garfield is anything but ferocious and actually i love watching his cartoons (if there were time) :) --

Questions about another attack.
On April 10, at a concert venue in Karachi where Sonu Nigam was to perform with others, a car bomb killed 2 and narrowly missed killing Sonu Nigam and his family.

He described it so ``At 10.15 in the night we were driving to the venue in a bus when the car in front of us blew up just 10 feet away. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. My family and singer Soumya Raoh who accompanied us, all rushed out of the bus thinking it could blow up in our face any moment. Zindagi mein pehli baar maut itne kareen se dekha hai. We could all be gone. Our home in Mumbai would’ve remained locked forever.``

http://sify.com/movies/bollywood/fullstory.php?id=13451663

The descriptions of events vary. Here is one version
``Before the explosion, the driver of the car jumped out and fled from the scene.

The explosion was so strong that the vehicle broke into pieces following a fire, the daily quoted eyewitnesses as saying.

A local resident, Farrukh Afandi, who was travelling near the car died and eight were injured. ``

http://www.hindu.com/2004/04/12/stories/2004041206151100.htm

My questions are,
1. Has the police identified who was behind the blast and who would want to kill people for a 3-hr music concert?

2.The fact that there has been no media follow up on police investigations- is this just incidental, or is there some other reason?

3. Was the blast arranged by a section of the security apparatus to make things difficult for another section of the security apparatus which explains 1 and 2?

#37 by veeresh

[Omar Sahib, your slip shows so often, it has to be GOOD]

You just caught Omar by his beard. No wonder, he`s not gonna show up.

Dear Sumaiyya,

I don`t hold any grudge against you because i don`t know you. I could have phrased my sentences in a more polite manner and am sorry if i offended you.

You raise a good point about the lack of trust in government in Pakistan. And i don`t blame you for that considering Pakistan`s successive governments.

Best,
Tmk

Re 32 by Omar Qureshi: ``zahraJ you`re there almost -- try again -- hahaha -- as usual i will have to say zahra. what in god`s name r ya talking about? -- perhaps u should try interacting in urdu, u might actually make sense :) ``

Omar,

I don`t think thats a nice thing to say to ZahraJ. I haven`t read any of her recent posts, but i think you should look at her arguments and not at how she conveys them (even though that is imp as well).

I know that you went to Columbia and UChicago and all, but that doesn`t give you the right to make fun of ZahraJ`s English. You are also an editor at Dawn, so it doesn`t reflect nicely on you when you say such things. Just didn`t like what you said to ZahraJ about her English, so wanted to say my bit.

summaiya -- no need to get so emotional

Omar: Your main issue is that you write first and think afterwards. I hope that was simple enough for you to comprehend. Some of your editorials reflect the same immaturity that you display in your interacts. Why do not you watch ``Garfield`` since you love to act like a ferocious little cat ? You may end up learning a few techniques. By the way, I like Garfield. Kind Wishes.

#26 - It was your sweet post that made me stop by. I concur with your drift but I do not think that your suggestion will make much difference. Immaturity and lack of depth requires something else.

Omar sahib . . . how does this sound, remind you of a statement made?

````A Sign of Things To Come? on April 29, 2004

Veeresh – that interactor was called a ‘moron’ not because he was a reader who was being looked down upon but because he had launched a personal attack and made all kinds of assumptions about what I had written and myself which were quite offensive – I don’t know why you’re being so touchy, why would I ever call you or anyone else on this site a moron – also, veeresh, may I remind you that please don’t keep making assumptions about people whom you have never met or know – I don’t need to tell you or other people how real or unreal my ‘journalistic pretensions’ are – I am afraid your statement that I would “simply not understand why travel on a train between India and Pakistan is…” is quite off the mark – of course it would be of interest to anyone, regardless of their ‘journalistic pretensions on the subject”, but the point I was trying to make was that it wouldn’t be of relevance if the idea is to write an article based on a TV show which was about an Indian film actress coming to Pakistan – and she didn’t come or leave by train – hahaha I don’t know or claim to know everything on the subject – don’t know why your feeling so touchy or personally offended – as for the young people in Pakistan whom you met, the ones who “don’t seem to care much about tv shows in Pakistan and reportage on them either”, well, that’s your opinion based on a trip by train to Pakistan – there is no ‘fit’ or un-‘fit’, just a traveller’s opinion – it would be dangerous to generalize from that – actually a lot of young people I know – and yes, they would travel by bus or by train (me and my wife plan to do that this summer) – would actually be quite interested in such shows – that’s precisely where I got the idea to do the article in the first place – godot: thanks for your observation – ````

````(me and my wife plan to do that this summer) ```` in case you missed it.

Omar Sahib, your slip shows so often, it has to be GOOD.

Omr Sahib/34, no Sir, I have not lost it, I am simply trying to be GOOD to you. While you work out what GOOD stands for in GOOD Karachi, here is a typical Kashmir holiday programme for you, should you wish to go when you are here for the CSE programme:-


Honeymoon in paradise:2 nights in InterContinental The Grand Palace Srinagar - Rs. 10,999 per couple
Srinagar a truly beautiful city, eulogised by travellers, poets, kings and saints alike for its scenic splendour and delightful ambience beckons for the most romantic holiday ever. Spend 2 nights at InterContinental The Grand Palace Srinagar from Rs. 10,999 per couple onwards.
More Details...
The Grand Group, India

Kashmir: The Paradise on Earth! 7 nights offer from just Rs 8,950 per person onwards
Kashmir has been called a `Paradise on Earth’ and rightly so. See it for yourself with this unbeatable 7 nights offer from just Rs 8,950 per person onwards. Valid till 30 September, 2004.
More Details...
SHREE MADHURAM TRAVELS & TOURS, Mumbai

Srinagar Special: 3-nights Family Getaway for Rs 15,999
Succumb to the inimitable charm of Kashmir- at the lovely InterContinental The Grand Palace Srinagar in Srinagar. Just Rs 15,999 for 3 nights. Upto 2 kids less than 12 yrs stay free in parents’ room.
More Details...
The Grand Group, India

Heaven on Earth ! 8 days package to Kashmir from just Rs. 11,450 per person onwards
Come to Kashmir for a summer holiday to cherish! Book this great 7-nt holiday, from just Rs 11,450 per person onwards. The offer`s valid till 30 September 2004.
More Details...
SHREE MADHURAM TRAVELS & TOURS, Mumbai

Interim, both Indian Airlines and Jet Airways have doubled flight to Srinagar and Leh, and Air Sahara has launched a new service there. Indian Railways is air-lifting railway coaches for the new railway line using an AN-124, from Chennai to Srinagar. And as for road traffic, well traffic jams at Banihal are back.

Which world are you living in, Omar Sahib, with your wooohooo and hahahaha?

As for your promise to go walkabout in Pakistan, please go back to your interacts . . .

#33-- hahhahaha u have finally lost it shri veeresh jee -- just read that post yourself and see what an ass u just made of yourself -- woo hooooooo

khassianee billi khamba nochay!

[with apologies to KK for syntax errors above] :)-

OK, here is a letter that I think should keep Omar Sahib content?

Hello Everybody, GOOD Evening! I am so glad to read such a GOOD article. It has so many new truths presented in such a GOOD manner. It is sad that this BAD thing happened in GOOD Karachi which is part of GOODER Sindh which is in GOODEST Pakistan.

The GOODESTEST media in Pakistan is correct. Such UNGOODLY things can not happen in GOOD Karachi.

Is this not a typical GOOD letter to Omar Sahib?

zahraJ you`re there almost -- try again -- hahaha -- as usual i will have to say zahra. what in god`s name r ya talking about? -- perhaps u should try interacting in urdu, u might actually make sense :)


nikki: ``I think Mr.Omar Quraishi should be exiled to kavaratti, where the people are mild-mannered, polite and would never tolerate such shrill, defensive, foul-mouthed and abusive language or behaviour.... Such a hateful, petty person.``

---

nikki jee, u of all people writing this -- now if this isnt ``rank`` hypocrisy then i dont know what is

veeresh sahib there u go again with your ``rank`` lies: ``What happened to the report on your great travel Pakistan inner areas that you promised us way back in April?`` -- what report ???? i certainly didnt promise any interactor on chowk anything -- where do u make up these stories veeresh jee??? kahan say !!

veeresh again: ``You have still not answered the basic question - where was the Pakistani media with its bleating outrage for the past 2 or 3 decades? OK, that is a simple one, we know the answer, they were running away any time some half-literate kotwal/SHO gave them a shout. But then, what are they suddenly bleating for now?`` -- there u go again, asking explanations from people who are not obliged in any way to give you anything -- btw u sound like a grouchy grandfather veeresh sahib -- and by the way thanks for teh offer for being my tourist guide and taking me to J&K but i much rather walk into a mine field in anantnag or someplace than be `guided` by u --

tmk -- actually unfortunately so many ppl u meet believe in such crazy conspiracy theories -- not really that much of a surprise by the way

--taking off from your point i would like to know the perception of the police in india and instances of police brutality in india against minorities, women, dalits etc --

You mis-understand! I am not into the comparison game- it is just that the atrocities by Indian police is well documented by Indian media and TV- infact the TV is also doing a very good job of exposing the police excesses in India- the communal face of Indian police in Gujrat and elsewhere is pathetically clear.

I am asking you to talk about YOURSELF because I have littel information about what the journalists are doing to expose the Pakistani police and military- or may be there is nothing to expose` since these two institutions are the cleanest and the sniffing journalist does not know where his snout is leading him to....................!!

With regards to POst* 29 by TMK::
hmm... do u hold a personal grudge towards me?i hope not.:) anyways, to further clearify , i never wrote that the army put up the whole show themselves with regards to the attack on the corp-commander. I , infact meant that the culprits may in fact be some other body than Al-Qaida militants in Waziristan and that PERHAPS the attackers were shown to be so on the media in order to gain support for the army operations going on in Waziristan. Never the less. i may be naive and i certainly do not possess a magic mirror to exhibit the truths of the world to me. :) For, it may as well be that the remaining agitated members of AL-Qaida did indeed hatch a plan to blow the corp commander up as a threat . So accept my apologies TMK .. for indeed everything does seem like a conspiracy where the ordinary citizen does not even trust their own government.

Dear Sumaiyya:

``Seems like a hoax- a drama- a- ploy -of our very own government to further pacify Bush daddy. It is just another fabricated story to gain support to attack tribes men in Wana.``

What`s wrong with you? Everything seems like a conspiracy to you. The Pak Army does not need to attack its senior generals to gain support for its operations in Wana or please ``Bush Daddy``.

The following is a very poignant thought expressed by one of Chowk`s Jahan`dee`da Buzurgs. I hope the signal stays clear and the message transmits accordingly.

[OK, Omar ji? Go for it . . . you will never know how much a fan of yours I am, and am just trying to make you a better human being. Don`t disappoint me, please?]

What a profound thought!

Omar Sahib 24 . . .

a) If trained men were shooting at you for 5 minutes, and could not get you, then obviously there is a series of articles on the training imparted in Pakistan due from you, very soon.

b) Please read up some more about how terrorists/revolutionaries et al historically have ``worked`` the credible media to their own advantage. This includes having them present at grandstand opportunities. Essence of journalism which I would not expect you to be aware of, running as you were from a sub-Inspector`s threat at the smallest poopie.

c) You have still not answered the basic question - where was the Pakistani media with its bleating outrage for the past 2 or 3 decades? OK, that is a simple one, we know the answer, they were running away any time some half-literate kotwal/SHO gave them a shout. But then, what are they suddenly bleating for now?

Maybe the same kotwal/SHO has asked them to?

Give it a break, Omar Sahib. What happened to the report on your great travel Pakistan inner areas that you promised us way back in April?

As for marketing and sales of Indian products in Pakistan, my intention is not to score points. My intention is to simply let you know so that you my propagate it further, that life is simpler and easier and cheaper for neighbours if they trade with each other openly. Economics 101, if you please.

Replying on behalf of Ballu . . . yes, the Police in India has its own series of issues based on perception as well as facts. But I have never heard of journalists running away from policemen in India. I have friends, senior guys all, who have had their heads split open, been lambasted with police cases, had their livelihood threatened. The cameramen who got beaten up by cops at Meham, the camereman who took a bullet through his tv camera lenscap in Parliament, the anchor who got locked up by cop-goons in UP . . . fact remains, today in India, the media has worked itself into a state of credibility due to something called ``backbone``.

Today if the Police in India know that you are a credible journalist, they think many many many times before trying anything incorrect. That is because the Indian media earned this right, the hard way. OK, Omar ji? Go for it . . . you will never know how much a fan of yours I am, and am just trying to make you a better human being. Don`t disappoint me, please?

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Post # 24 has a sweet and hilarious beginning.

...[was trying very very hard ...]

Somehow, it does not seem like a well put together effort. Take it to the next step and try harder!!! It may help you with inculcating some self discipline :) Best Wishes.

was trying very very hard not to respond to this but had to one post by the mr know-it-all of chowk -- veeresh -- who wrote: ``And then you have Omar bleating about gunmen in Karachi? Why wasn`t Pakistani media there with cameras and dictaphones, instead?`` -- hahahaha u really have no idea what it is to be a crime reporter in pakistan -- veeresh sahib when mir murtaza was murdered i was a reporter then and with the crime reporter reached the scene before the ambulances -- the senior police official in charge, whom i heard (so this is first hand not second or third-hand BS like yours) said in urdu (hope u can read it): `in sahafiyon saalon ko bhoon daalo`` -- needless to say we had to run under cover -- trained men shooting for 5 mins and u expect reporters to be there with dictaphones -- what planet u from veeresh ji -- at least the media here is better than the US media who have to go thru iraq `embedded` with their soldiers --

and other gems that mr veeresh quotes with gay abandon (propaganda at its worst, or should i say best): ``I speak with friends in the Indian media, especially the sort who move around in Pakistan often, I asked them hey how come you never went to Sheikhupura and Moghulpura and temples / gurudwaras / mosques in Pakistan, how come you don`t meet common wo/man on the streets and you know what they say? They say, well, our friends the Pakistani journalists don`t seem to know about these things either.`` -- this guy is talking pure unadulterated crap esp the bit about the pakistani journalists who ``dont seem to know about these things either`` -- veeresh sahib your indian media friends obviously met the wrong people, or perhaps they met publisher or owners of some magazines or newspapers who would obviously not want to be seen in sheikhupura -- and did it ever occur to you that your own dear friends in the india media might themselves have not been too keen on going to muridke or changa manga when they can have a ball in lahore --

then u write :``Matter of fact, some of the more senior Indian journos got in touch with me after my write-ups, and have taken directions from me. And I`ve been to Pakistan only once in the last 20 years.`` -- man u NEED TO GET HOLD OF YOUR EGO -- its a pity that some indian journalists took ``directions from you`` -- i think that development will put back pakistan-india relations 25 years more than any ISI-sponsored terrorist act in india hahaha


and here`s another gem from the wise sage of chowk, veeresh malik: ``Most parts of the world, the bad guys tip off the media, after all, most of the world`s terrorists survive due to publicity.`` -- hahahah -- pray tell me veeresh ji which are the countries this happens in?

the rest of the references is, well, not really worth commenting on -- again the issue of costs and ashok leyland trucks ! hahaha


ballu: ``I would like to know how PAkistani citizen views its police viz a viz the military? How much time they take in handling cases? How many investigations lead to successful prosecution.....how fast is the judiciary in handling a common person`s litigation? All this would make a good topic for discussion than showing concern for a dictator`s henchman. `` --taking off from your point i would like to know the perception of the police in india and instances of police brutality in india against minorities, women, dalits etc --

Seems like a hoax- a drama- a- ploy -of our very own government to further pacify Bush daddy. It is just another fabricated story to gain support to attack tribes men in Wana . has the government momentarily forgotten that these tribes men are Pakistani`s who have support from several religious parties all over the country. This may lead to further terrorist attacks or an all out civil war. How far will Musharraf go to appease others at the cost of the lives of innocent civilians. I am sure there could have been another way for where there is a will, there is a way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pakistan seizes `al-Qaeda gang`
Security forces in Pakistan have arrested suspected al-Qaeda members in the southern city of Karachi, days after an attack on a general there.
They seized an ``eight-member gang of foreign al-Qaeda operatives`` suspected of that attack and others, Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat said.

A ninth detainee is said to be a nephew of top al-Qaeda suspect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, arrested last year.

Mr Hayat said the man, Masrab Arochi, had a $1m bounty on his head.


The arrest of the gang is a phenomenal breakthrough for us
Faisal Saleh Hayat
Pakistani Interior Minister
The suspects were detained over the weekend in separate raids across Karachi, the minister told a hastily arranged news conference.

Mr Hayat said the arrests marked a ``big dent`` in al-Qaeda, the militant Islamic network headed by Osama Bin Laden.

Gunmen who ambushed the motorcade of Lt Gen Ahsan Saleem Hayat in Karachi on Thursday killed 11 people but Karachi`s targeted military commander escaped unhurt.

`Confessions`

The weekend`s arrests came as Pakistani troops continued a major offensive against al-Qaeda suspects and their allies in the South Waziristan region, on the border with Afghanistan.


The interior minister said the eight people arrested in Karachi besides Masrab Arochi had been trained in South Waziristan and had ``a direct link to al-Qaeda``.
They had confessed ``to a key role in the attack`` on the military commander, he said.

He described the eight as ``Central Asians``, reportedly adding that they included both Uzbeks and ``Chechens``, a reference to the mainly Muslim province in the Russian North Caucasus.

``The arrest of the gang is a phenomenal breakthrough for us,`` the Pakistani interior minister said.

Security forces seized Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in the Pakistani city of Rawalpindi in March 2003.

The US had a bounty of $23m on his head at the time, believing him to be one of the planners behind the 11 September 2001 attacks on America.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/3803321.stm

Published: 2004/06/13 18:06:59 GMT

© BBC MMIV

ballukhan:

...a small request...get off your high horse!

...in the current situation...there is hardly one unbruised or not decaying institution in Pakistan...thanks to years of neglect...abuse of power...lack of democracy etc...as i mentioned earlier the country runs on two sets of laws only...

rgds,

t

Are we running an investigation report on Chowk???
Why doen`t you go through the case diaries in any of your police stations in order to initiate discussions on reforms in police ?? That would make a good topic for discussion. I would like to know how PAkistani citizen views its police viz a viz the military? How much time they take in handling cases? How many investigations lead to successful prosecution.....how fast is the judiciary in handling a common person`s litigation? All this would make a good topic for discussion than showing concern for a dictator`s henchman.

Temporal/18 . . . boss, agreed ``they`` tried to get Tehelka, but:-

a) See where it got ``them``.
b) See where Tehelka are again.
c) Point is, aleast Tehelka and others try and try and try . . .

The blanket criticism of Pakistani English language media, they deserve it. Not one of them can justify their expensive costs, to start with.

On the Indian products in Pakistani markets, point is simple - buy direct, cheaper. Buy via Butt and Bukh Co/Sharjah, branch Afghanistan, it costs thrice as much.

Question :- does Pakistan have the time in its hand to behave like a slowly turning tanker? I think not . . . and you were in Karachi lately, not me . . .

And the role of the Pakistani media is so important here.

Why don`t they defend themselves? Because they have extremely conceited opinions of themselves. To my knowledge, far too many of them treat a trip to India as a booze and flooze expedition. By that count, I find the Urdu language media to be more sincere, whatever their truths may be.

``After such knowledege, what forgiveness``

Exactly 5 seconds before the firing commenced, i passed the scene of thursday`s episode. Police was already stationed at the corner of Bridge Stores, clearly an indication that trouble was expected. Yet, while we cowered under the staircase of a nearby building for minutes on end, and the firing continued unabated - no police arrived on the scene. A minute after this six minute episode finished, we heard sirens and lo and behold the saviours arrived- almost as if they were waiting in the wings. Maybe the police station right behind PSO could have intervened or even radioed for more help if they were ``scared``!

There is a plethora of accounts as to what ``really happened``, but in this city of blood and tears, we turn our backs and walk away - pretending nothing ever transpired.

sir veeru:

pls. read my last full paragraph in # 9 carefully and also between the lines...the media does not deserve blanket criticism...(why am i defending them? why don`t they come here and defend themselves?)...

...one unrelated but somewhat similar example would be the seemingly unified thrust applied top the tehelka chap --forget his name-- to break him.. you should be well aware of it...that was an exception in indian media manipulation... just think of similar and even more blatant manipulation constantly and on almost all notable targets

...re: sheikhupura and sohrab goth -- heheh.. you mean your journos are as bad as ours?..they are not curious ..they just ask their brothers in trade?

re: leyland and santos: dunno the reason...perhaps they would be easily identifiable targets under certain conditions?...

..relations between our countries are turning around...but to give you a shippie example a tanker turns 180 degress more slowly than a suzuki;)..have faith and be positive...bhagwan ki kirpa say aur inshallah one day.....

rgds

t

Temporal/9 . . . Sirji, the whole thing behind being a journalist or any kind of media person has to do with sacrifice for the sake of society. I distinctly recall vibrant and free underground media even in old USSR. But what excuse does Pakistani media have?

Governments and their arms shall never show tolerance towards media, the basic fact of life is that they will be at loggerheads. But if in most cases you scratch a Pakistani journalist and find somebody who is somehow there because s/he is somehow ``connected``, then what do you expect?

Your Pakistani media (at least the English one), sorry to say, is simply too busy with its own comforts to make sacrifices. Sure, we have had quisling media in India too, some have terribly pro-British histories (eg: TOI), but that`s hopefully changed now.

I speak with friends in the Indian media, especially the sort who move around in Pakistan often, I asked them hey how come you never went to Sheikhupura and Moghulpura and temples / gurudwaras / mosques in Pakistan, how come you don`t meet common wo/man on the streets and you know what they say? They say, well, our friends the Pakistani journalists don`t seem to know about these things either.

Matter of fact, some of the more senior Indian journos got in touch with me after my write-ups, and have taken directions from me. And I`ve been to Pakistan only once in the last 20 years.

I am sorry, Temporal, your English media has only itself to blame. They take on to themsleves the role of projecting what they think is ``good`` for Pakistan, not realising that in the bargain they are losing their own credibility.

I will give the example of Hyundai Santro cars and Ashok Leyland buses again, here in India we have press conferences by these companies proudly announcing sales to Pakistan, and there you have Pakistani media denying it as though their life depends on it? What is Pakistani media`s role, to report the truth or to find versions of truth?

And then you have Omar bleating about gunmen in Karachi? Why wasn`t Pakistani media there with cameras and dictaphones, instead? Most parts of the world, the bad guys tip off the media, after all, most of the world`s terrorists survive due to publicity. In Pakistan, even the bad guys don`t have any faith in their media?

Inside job

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

veeresh#7
The guy who reported that Dawood Ibrahim was in Karachi while Musharraf was in India denying it, went missing for two days.

One suspects that not only the press but the civilian police`s investigations are also circumscribed by paranoid intelligence agencies, which are tying themselves into knots maintaining plausible deniability and deniable plausibility for their old friends.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Omar:

After 9/11 it has been decided by the powers that be that we cannot allow militant Islamists anywhere in the world. They have to be targettedly killed (targetted killing of many a militant Islamic leaders all over the world is an evidence). The sooner we accept this, the better for all of us. This is the ground reality.

The ground reality is also that militant Islam was created and supported by the USA, Saudis and Pakistanis (our military) together in the 80s. However, that was another era and the requirements of the time were different. This is another era and requirements are totally different. Pakistanis should have discerned the changing patterns long time ago. We were a kuain ka maindak. When the whole world was progressing, we were actually retrogressing in the 90s.

The ground reality is also that if the evil was created and supported beyond the requiremnts of the time by our military, then it should also clean up the mess.

The ground reality is that standing at daggers drawn with Pakistani army like PPP and PML N (or even JI under Qazi Hussain) will do common Pakistanis no good. At this critical juncture, we have to support leaders from within army and from our society to start cleaning up the mess.

The ground reality is also that the militants having full cooperation from within deep military/ISI/Police and elsewhere are capable of pulling every kind of trick out of their bags.

As it is, Pakistan military will only wipe out militants under American/Western encouragement / support / pressure. Let us hope that this pressure is maintained on us for our own benefit.

Finally, I would like Pakistan to keep its eyes open on another front. Although our friends may support us to wipe out militancy that threatens them, they may actually encourage violence within the country`s boundary to keep us destabilized for some future plans. Although this apprehension may be far-fetched, there is no harm in keeping ourselves prepared for a pessimistic scenario (sensitivity analysis sort of).

Educating omar,

When more than a million people throng around jihadis in madreke, showing off their jihadic prowess, I wonder what the police were doing?
When fully armed jihadis cross over to kashmir to kill the infidels, I wonder what the army was doing?
When there are posters all over pakistan recruiting for jihadis, I wonder what the educated of pakistan and the dawn editors were doing?

Omar you disappoint me, being in pakistan, you have come up with such stupid questions about the karachi attack. This is pathetic.

This refers to coment no:4 by Tmk. the people mentioned were not mentioned on an individual choice. These are the namess educated, un educated people, elite or others, may name when jumping to conclusions. hence forth, as the little opinion that i shared placed emphasis on the role of security agencies , that is what one should really consider. Anyhow, i give all due respect to ur response. I personally as a law student name no culprits unless proper evidence is given to prove that.

veeru:

there is no denying the validity of some of your major claims re: pak media...

--there is a lack of tradition of investigative journalism...the brief flare lit up by razia bhatti almost extinguished now...(there are some brave exceptions -- in the urdu press and fewer in the english... they are being rendered ineffective in other ways)

--while only recently the government has shown greater tolerance towards media freedom...it wasn`t always so in the past...and even this you have to take with a grain of salt...(mushy personally verbally abused the ARY network and stopped them from releasing a pre-recorded interview of Shahbaz Sharif while he was enroute to lahore)...hopefully this new found freedom will produce in future some good investigative reporters and journalists

--this country is lawless or has one law...depending on how you look at it...for the masses there is quaide -e- azam (on currency bills)...and for the vested interests...the rich and powerful there is another set of laws...their own...one needs not laws where muscles or the threat of using them will do...this i suspect is the main reason that hinders media to do its job properly...(forget terrorists and locqal government...some scribes were stopped from doing a semi investigative piece because the owner/managers and the media owners were family friends)...the writers are under threat from unknown and powerful quarters...and this threat is ever pervasive!

...hence, the truth is always in the gray area...

rgds,

t


ps: sorry for posting it in error on my thread

veeru:

there is no denying the validity of some of your major claims re: pak media...

--there is a lack of tradition of investigative journalism...the brief flare lit up by razia bhatti almost extinguished now...(there are some brave exceptions -- in the urdu press and fewer in the english... they are being rendered ineffective in other ways)

--while only recently the government has shown greater tolerance towards media freedom...it wasn`t always so in the past...and even this you have to take with a grain of salt...(mushy personally verbally abused the ARY network and stopped them from releasing a pre-recorded interview of Shahbaz Sharif while he was enroute to lahore)...hopefully this new found freedom will produce in future some good investigative reporters and journalists

--this country is lawless or has one law...depending on how you look at it...for the masses there is quaide -e- azam (on currency bills)...and for the vested interests...the rich and powerful there is another set of laws...their own...one needs not laws where muscles or the threat of using them will do...this i suspect is the main reason that hinders media to do its job properly...(forget terrorists and locqal government...some scribes were stopped from doing a semi investigative piece because the owner/managers and the media owners were family friends)...the writers are under threat from unknown and powerful quarters...and this threat is ever pervasive!

...hence, the truth is always in the gray area...

rgds,

t


ps: sorry for posting it in error on my thread

Ijaz/5 and Temporal/6 . . . and others . . . I think Ijaz-Gul raises some valid points here. But my point, as an Indian with enough exposure to Pakistan below my belt, is this:-

For decades now, the ``bad guys``, whoever they are, have surely been known to the Pakistani media. I refuse to believe that all of them in the Pakistani media are living in some isolated island, and are not able to move beyond playing childhood games where whatever Simple Simon says/said is taken as truth. I mean, how is it that the Pan-Am hijacking, the Bhutto massacre, and other Karachi specials are so easily forgotten?

Therefore, when the bombs and guns start turning inwards, for the bespoke Pakistani media to start bleating around is just so much to take.

There is an old adage about policing in India, probably true in Pakistan also - where the alleged suspect is/are well built and appear to have training, then do also look at the nearest cantonments as well as places of religious significance.

So here`s one more for those reading this - the real bad guy hanging around within Clifton has been going through some major gender re-construction lately.

ijaz;)

more questions:

--complicity
--broad daylight
--firing from at least three angles
--number of rounds fired
--target # 1 in all of khi (Gov and CM next in order)
--rest hinted by ijaz

Omar and Romair,

Last year Herald did an excellent supplement on terrorism in Pakistan. The report was very accurate and named individulas whose footprints were found right from the bombing of a church in Bahawalpur to Taxila. Recently one name also surfaced in the attempt on the President`s life. It is again being mentioned now.

The same names are also mentioned in the net when one tries to search atricles on the beheadding of Daniel Pearl.

Romair, if you read this, this is the reference I was talking about.
Cheerios

Sumaiya,

Please, leave Israel out of this. These conspiracy theories about the Israelis trying to take out Pakistani Generals should not be taken seriously. The Israelis had nothing to do with this attack, so please don`t say such things.

yes mr. omer nice question raised by you....
but u remember the incident happend at baloch colony bridge... firing and gernade attack on a van of rangers and they get away too at that time when thre is rush of traffic on shahra-e-faisal.....

i dont know why this all hapening... but who. i am sure off.. its the government...

Who has done it? Tribesmen in Wana or Raw or America or Israel? This is the second question. The first and most important question is, ``What were the security and Intelligence forces of Pakistan doing?What have the Police and the Rangers been doing? Has, the ISI, suddely become weak? Certainly, the all powerful army of Pakistan lies threatened if even just a little. The security forces of Pakistan are in a terribly pathetic state, if the very service that they are supposed to provide- protection of citizens and the stae, lies unfulfilled.

---

Battle with militants comes full circle
By Zaffar Abbas
BBC, Islamabad

The latest military operation against suspected al-Qaeda militants and renegade tribesmen in South Waziristan is also the fiercest in recent months.
And it is the first clear proof that after several rounds of clashes and peace talks, the situation in the troubled tribal region has come full circle.

With more than 60 people, including 15 troops, already dead in three days of clashes, all hopes of a peaceful resolution of the conflict seem to have been dashed.

And with the security forces using jets, helicopter gunships and heavy artillery to pound the militants` hideouts, and the suspected Islamic extremists responding with rockets and mortars, the mountainous region outside the town of Wana is likely to look like a ``war zone`` for many weeks, if not months.

Support for Taleban

South Waziristan is fast proving to be Achilles` heel for the Pakistani security establishment.

Faced with growing pressure from the United States, Islamabad has tried every possible way to address the issue.

It managed to tame most parts of the semi-autonomous tribal region by using the so-called carrot-and-stick policy, but still failed to persuade the rugged tribesmen of South Waziristan to give up their support for the Taleban and other Islamic militants like Uzbeks, Chechens and Arabs living in the area.

Earlier this year the Pakistani security forces blundered by launching a military operation against the Waziri tribesmen for whom taking part in guerrilla warfare is a way of life.

Those who mostly defied the military were Ahmedzai Wazir tribesmen, led by 27-year-old Nek Mohammed.

Peace talks

The first military offensive resulted in heavy casualties on the two sides, with the security forces losing more men than in any other operation at home.


For the Pakistani establishment South Waziristan is certainly proving to be more difficult to handle than was initially anticipated.

It soon compelled the authorities to agree to the mediation offered by some tribal leaders.
As a result the military`s corps commander for the north-western region, Lt Gen Safdar Hussain, met Nek Mohammed and others at a tribal jirga or assembly.

A peace deal was struck, raising hopes for a negotiated settlement.

Nek Mohammed was once again declared a ``patriot``, only to be termed a ``petty criminal`` a few weeks later.

Differences on the interpretation of the peace agreement surfaced within no time.

The government said all the foreign nationals living in the area were required to register with the authorities.

The foreign militants refused to do so, and were backed by the rebel tribesmen. Soon the peace agreement was history.

All out war

The latest offensive was preceded by a bloody rocket attack on a number of military check posts in the area, in which nine paramilitary troops were killed.

The military decided to declare an all-out war against the Islamic militants.

But although a number of militants` hideouts in the mountains were destroyed during the latest offensive, so far the operation has failed to produce the desired results.

For the Pakistani establishment South Waziristan is certainly proving to be more difficult to handle than was initially anticipated.

In fact, it is becoming more dangerous. Observers say that if it is true that the recent armed attack on a military commander in Karachi was in retaliation for the events in Waziristan, the situation is becoming even more alarming.

It shows that local militant groups sympathetic to Waziri tribesmen are prepared to take their war to mainland Pakistan, in particular cities like Karachi.

But with American troops constantly watching from across the border in Afghanistan, it will not be easy for Pakistani security forces to give up their anti-militant drive so easily.

Yet, they know there are no easy ways to solve the problem.

The Pakistani authorities are hoping is that with the latest offensive, most of the local and foreign militants will soon be eliminated - and without their troops suffering too heavily.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/3800055.stm

Published: 2004/06/11 21:26:29 GMT

© BBC MMIV

Welcome to the reality, the bottom line is terrorists ran away as they planned obviuosly some of the police/army/forces might be in terrorists continous contact otherise they could never have gone away it was suicide mission turned into a get-way gorila whatever mission. Valid questions raised indeed by omer!
Whos next? I think theer will be some attacks in Lahore and other major cities specially Islamabad-- someone wana bet?