Careless Consciences

#116 by sadna:

I thought you’d get it…the dig at Mallus giving the fish curry to MMS was said purely in jest and not to undermine either the PM or Mallus…
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#128 by gujjubania:

Here we go again…apologising to me is not the point. You make incendiary comments about a whole section of people and the so-called adults here get all excited. Please do not let what you yourself call an anonymous forum make you decide on how the ‘other guys’ think. There are kinds and kinds of people within groups. Since you mentioned Zafar, he and I do not agree on all issues, at least when he interacted here. (Am not aware of what happens at Sulekha or any other website.) While stereotypes are inevitable, try and judge people by how you see them ‘personally’. So, if you do not like what I say, come out with it, but do not bring in 160 million Muslims. For when you do, I will speak up for them. It then does become a WE issue.

PS: I wish you would choose your chachas and mamus with care:)
PPS: Next time you make these incendiary comments and then come all sweet and nice, do not expect the same treatment…I just have chocolate in my mouth right now, so…
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#129 by nb:

[Frarzana, instead of defending the indefensible, would you please help the helpless? This girl Israt doesn`t look like she was a terrorist, though I will be happy to be proved wrong. Even if she was going about with a terrorist, that`s no excuse for not trying to avoid her in a shootout. I mean this seriously-aren`t you going to do something about it?]

Before anything was written about it, I had already indicated, “Resignations and dismissals make martyrs of people; they do not bring justice to the fore. Is it any surprise that a group of terrorists were caught when they tried to ‘target’ Modi soon after Vajpayee’s utterances?” Do you imagine that in a place where someone can loudly declare, “Who the hell is Satyendra Dubey?” my taking up for the “helpless” would make any sense?

You are right that people ought to be seen as innocent till proved guilty, but then where is the proof of so many heinous crimes committed by Establishment individuals? In Ishrat’s case, there may be every reason to believe she is innocent, but in a general sense I will not say that a simple collegian, 19 years old, cannot be a part of such activities. When I am personally convinced that there is absolutely no basis to her involvement (like I am more or less certain that the whole Modi-martyrdom is being buffered), then I will say something about it.

Re. defending the indefensible, I am afraid our yardsticks may differ. Though you are wrong about this: “she will defend those non-kashmiri militants in Kashmir”. An indigenous movement I talk about is about local Kashmiris. Would appreciate it if we did not get into this discussion here again…I have had my say on the relevant and one non-relevant to the subject board.

Gujjubania, the girl was an idiot, but there`s no proof she was more than that. She has the right to sleep with as many people as she wants-that does not mean she should have been killed. People fall in love and do all sorts of stupid things. Was she an immediate danger to the public? Should I have to tell a (supposedly) 17 year-old that? What I`m asking Farzana is why she will defend those non-kashmiri militants in Kashmir and not a young girl who got caught . I`m not complaining about the others-even if this was an extra-judical faked encounter, don`t know if it was-if they were terrorists, things have reached a point where I don`t care how they died. This is terrible for me to admit, because I have always believed in innocent till proved otherwise, but it is a sign of our times.Civil liberties are falling by the wayside, in our minds, then in public.

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Folks,

Look at FV`s comment #108, she ends up referring to a ``we`` the muslims.
So she pretends to speak for all muslims in India :)
that is pretty arrogant .... She of course tprobably hinks that she is the descendent of
Iranians ...

To counter the fundamentalism and bigotry of people like FV it is important
that truth about Islamic history in India be told. Like Dost-Mitter has pointed
out, one also needs to distinguish between the ideology of Islam and the Muslim
individuals.

Luckily as the economic power of India increses and the economic power of SaudiArabia
goes down, India will be in a better position to better absorb and integrate muslims
into society. Hopefully a Hinduised Islam which admires DaraShikoh and detests
the bigotry of Aurangzeb will come into existence.

Frarzana, instead of defending the indefensible, would you please help the helpless? This girl Israt doesn`t look like she was a terrorist, though I will be happy to be proved wrong. Even if she was going about with a terrorist, that`s no excuse for not trying to avoid her in a shootout. I mean this seriously-aren`t you going to do something about it?

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#125 by nikki7777 on June 18, 2004 1:42pm PT

”i`ll leave ``HP` to help me out with some punjabi jokes man”

I heard ya man!
As soon as I get sometime I will post a few. Can’t leave you out there all by yourself especially in Manhattan with those cabbies and here with this horde.

Did you know that Punjabi language has no polite word. They only talk in Gaalis.

In the meantime, do a search on “Punjabi jokes” on your favorite search engine you will find plenty to overwhelm them all.

from economist june 18 2004:

``From kindergarten to university to the few professions they are permitted to pursue, as well as in restaurants and banks and in other public places, the female half of Saudi Arabia`s population is kept strictly apart. Women are not allowed to drive a car, sail a boat or fly a plane, or to appear outdoors with hair, wrists or ankles exposed, or to travel without permission from a male guardian. A wife who angers her husband risks being “hanged”; that is, suspended in legal limbo, often penniless and trapped indoors, until such time as he deigns to grant a divorce. And then she will lose custody of her children.``

When 50% of the population is enslaved openly like that in muslim socities,
where is the outrage? kashmir pales in comparision. if anything they are
pampered lot in India.

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re:#120 by nikki7777
I think one`s impressions are shaped by expriences. I do not know why you hate Punjabees so much but there must be a reason.
As far as i am concerned, i am a south Indian who lived among Punjabees in Delhi where i grew up (my best friends, nay almost brothers, are punjabees) and later migrated to USA.
I have fond memories of my interactions with them. You just need to grow up and get out of the stereotypes.
BTW, which part of India are u from?
Sridhar

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It is Dhurandhar Bhatlavadekar. Funny!!

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Ralph #114

you`ve expressed your thoughts on islam, muslims and islamists aplenty. i was not talking about muslims in this country or that country, theek hai?although what you say is true, please understand that i was talking about suggesting, telling, demanding, whatever, a people to leave their country, theek hai? their roots, their choice. someone can bring up tughlaq, ghaznavi, aurangzeb (always interesting how more level-headed tolerant folk tend to get left out), the `crud` from the not-so-glorious past in telling a community they do not belong. . .it gets old, it changes nothing. it shows a certain intolerance and lack of conscience that, oh my goodness, the accused community has! not the same, of course! and lest we go further off track than we already have here, and lest i be lectured ever so kindly and gently again on what democracy allows (as if a person who has spent most of her life in a `democracy` was living in a bubble all this time), the `go to pakistan, isn`t that where you`d be happier.` naara does not need to be raised every time a farzana versey article is published on chowk, in my humble opinion of course. :)

as for developing an inner conscience, i think farzana says it best towards the end of #108. i need not add to that. she is highly capable of speaking for herself, and does it better than those of us who think we`re uttering her thoughts and words.

... i am proud of nikki7777, gujjubaniya and satyamvada...per yaar haath jara howla rakhin...sadna (raw)might get on your tails...;)