Careless Consciences

I `m angry about the way Hindus are treated in Muslim countries. And I do understand why people feel terrorists should just be killed, that way there can`t be hostage situations.No matter what the story is, there`s no doubt in my mind that the state of Pakistan is responsible for Ishrat`s death; she would not have not been killed if she had not been with an agent. But I still think we do need to make sure things were above board, that she was not just a giddy young thing in the wrong place. (Like I said, even if she knew what was going on, that makes her a traitor).Because, then, who next?

Re: dharma # 188
What you say is perfectly valid for Saudi Arabia and Muslim societies in general. I think change for any society has to come from within. I am not familiar with Saudi Arabian society and really don’t know why it’s the way it is. As far as human rights organizations are concerned, their primary function is to promote the interests of their fanciers and do some human rights work on the side. So I have little hope from them.

In the Indian context Muslim women have continued to challenge unfair laws for divorce and inheritance in court. There are three petitions with the supreme court challenging the constitutional validity of MWA that was introduced after the Shah Bano verdict.

Faruk

badtameez bachchay tau dono hindustan aur pakistan maiN maujood haiN. :))

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#188 dharma
``When 50% of the population is enslaved openly like that in muslim socities,
where is the outrage?``
Keep posting.Keep raising your voice whenever and wherever you can.Thats the least you can do. Maybe people dont reply;lets hope they listen.

Careless Consciences

so i checked with several inner voices (folks in mumbai) about the irshat and the gang shooting. none of them seemed to have any sympathy. when i asked, are they not bothered by such an extra-judicial killing of indian citizen along with allegedly paki citizens? they expressed not a morsel of regret saying what is the point of filling jails with these terrorist who will be set free either on legal technicalities or due to a hijack. the attitude was of surprisingly devoid of sympathy towards the killed, even after they acknowledged (based on knowledge from hindi movies) that encounters can be fake.

this is the reality we must face honestly

And I wish there was some comment on the following:

1. That India can not be a Hindu homeland, so secular Indians must protest illtreatment of Hindus and other minorities in neighbouring countries. 2. That Ishrat was not only shot dead by the Indian state but was also the dupe of the Pakistani state which claims to be synonymous with Islam and considers its incitement of Indian Muslims to armed jihad to be synonymous with promoting the interests of Muslims.

Perhaps there is no comment because it is politicially expedient even on a discussion board to hold Hindus totally responsible for everything and anything, correct? But as a Hindu if I too chose to be politically expedient, now that would be fascism, of course.

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gujjubania #182
From your depradations on the other forum, it is clear you talk about gushing of psec Hindu women at times when you have decisively lost the argument with psec Hindu women.

Perhaps you do this because you haven`t learned to change your own diapers without your Mommy helping.

But IMO, here you are doing it because you have absolutely no idea what you are arguing about, some thing you have greatly in common with your birth partner omar quraishi.

I wrote in #127

from economist june 18 2004:

``From kindergarten to university to the few professions they are permitted to pursue, as well as in restaurants and banks and in other public places, the female half of Saudi Arabia`s population is kept strictly apart. Women are not allowed to drive a car, sail a boat or fly a plane, or to appear outdoors with hair, wrists or ankles exposed, or to travel without permission from a male guardian. A wife who angers her husband risks being “hanged”; that is, suspended in legal limbo, often penniless and trapped indoors, until such time as he deigns to grant a divorce. And then she will lose custody of her children.``

When 50% of the population is enslaved openly like that in muslim socities,
where is the outrage?

And not a single person replied. typical commie, bleeding heart liberal, pseudo secular,
muslim loving site! To me the freedom of 50% of the 1 billion muslims is more important
as they are not allowed to live life as they choose. Is there any greater oppression of
humanity than that? Why are liberals and human rights organizations always silent about that?

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gujjubania #128
Nice post.First time you have been candid about the foundation of your beliefs.Looks like you are susceptible to an argument, so I will try and make one.
``I dont know , but- if the whole hindu-muslim problem in India is just a matter of a communication gap , then it can be sorted out. But if it is more serious than that...then... ``
Communication gap is not a small issue, it is a large one.
You have a stereotype of muslims because you have not interacted with them much.I can realize this.
I,coming from a small town in Eastern U.P.,was born and brought up in such a culture that the slogan ``Hindu Muslim Sikh Isaai, Aapas me sab bhai bhai`` didnt make any sense to me.My grandfather was a lawyer and had many ``muslim``( it was not till very late that I recognized that they were supposed to be different)friends,and it was not unusual to go to their place and end up eating there if it was time for meals.
Perhaps,if I had been brought up in the same conditions as you are, I would have held the same beliefs.But not trying to examine your beliefs and writing inciting posts??I dont know how you can justify that.
Believing in something is good, but not examining your beliefs is worse than having no beliefs at all.
You say Azim Premji is a patriot(I can cite innumerable examples from the popular icons, but I dont want to insult them), just because he is one of the richest men in India.What about the millions under the poverty line who are struggling to make ends meet?Are they unpatriotic because they are poor?
Patriotism is not the hatred of the enemy country,it is the love of your own.It is the love of the place where you grow up, learn how to haggle with the sabziwalaahs and learn the dirtiest of gaalis.
Like all kinds of love,it may seem to become a liability from time to time(when it is questioned)but you just cant shrug it off that easily.you are destined to live with it and die with it.Sometimes of natural causes,sometimes of illicit liquor after rickshaw pulling the whole day or sometimes on the battlefield fighting.
Talk about that rediff report you are citing.I havent read it, and i dont feel the need to.Tell me this,has there ever been a report of Muslims distributing sweets when India has won? I think not.I would be worried when that is reported.Newpapers always report anomalies.They thrive on them.I was reading a humans right report on India in the year of Gujarat.It was damning.
But the one thing that lifted my spirits was the last line- However, by and large, all the communites continue to live amicably with each other in India.``
We all look at the anomalies,but dont see the writing on the wall.There are more muslims in India than in Pakistan.Do you think we would be winning wars from Pakistan if they would have been patriotic to Pakistan?
Now the problem of the communication gap.Since you cant meet that many muslims,try reading some literature.The best book that I can recommend is ``Topi Shukla`` by Rahi Masoom Raza.His``Aadha Gaon`` is also good.
I dont know of any English Books on this topic,though.Contrary to what people like Rushdie would have us believe,our best literature still continues to be written in Hindi and other vernacular languages.
Sorry,Long post.But i would be glad to answer your questions if you have any.

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