The Rock Star and the Mullahs

I have not seen the documentry.He just asked for verse in QURAN that contains words about the Forbiddens of music.But in my opinion he should also give some citations because it will proov his point in a much effective way.He talks about sufism and dont even know the history of sufism.I wonder if he know about "TARIQA S".Every sufi links sufism back to Mola ALI (A.S) except for the Naqshbandi order because they link their origin back to Hazrat abu bakar.Both rules links their roots to madina.The oldest sufi order known today is from Iraq.So no,its not a local ideology.But he is right about the mullahs they are importing saudi sect a.k.a wahabism.But salman is also doing no good because he is also giving expossure to his concepts without any proof.my main point is that we should do some research and study before shooting stuff because not all sects beleave inthe restrictions of music.And all the sufi-rock thing is just a wrapper for making money.I never get any teachings from junoons sufi-rock.They never wrote or played any song that teaches "Lataif-e-Sitta" which are the basic of sufism.Music is allowed under specific conditions defined by every ayatullah for their followers because "TAQLEED" is a neccessry in Shiite sect.So in reflect sufism is also the biggest school of thought that practice music.Shiite sect is the closest sect in islam to sufism followed by Non-tempered sunnism.So its acctually wahabism that dont allow any kind of artform.So,anyone who hates mullah s should not drag all of the Islam,because every sect is different and has their own rules (Sharia).Im not saying it to salman but this is becoming a trend.And i have nothing against wahabism.And sufism is not a sect(just for information),its a state of mind.

Great documentary...

#48 by carpejuglum

Thanks for sharing your experience. :) Why don`t you write some article about your trip and share it with everyone? It would be interesting.

I got a strange feeling of deja vu reading Ahmed`s post. This February a delegation of 15 students from my college went to Lahore to take part in a debate. Our hosts were also holding a Junoon concert on campus and being honored guests we got the ringside view.

And like Ahmed puts it....Everything was rock n roll as usual till they started “Jazba-e-Junoon”. Most of us being non hindi speakers did`nt even realise it was a patriotic song till the ``Pakistan kabhi na ..`` line came up. I remember the boy in front of me literally stop mid headbang...the Indians looked at each other sheepishly..then came to a common realisation of what the heck and continued...

We had a brilliant time...and at the risk of being labelled a bleeding heart peace nik as people tend to do on chowk....music kind of smoothes away all differences if only for a few minutes...you loose national character and become part of a crowd...moving to the beat..the crowd lives, breaths and headbangs together....

I`m loosing coherence...so signing off

Words with no sounds are allowed. No one haa said that music of all type is allowed. Only an instrument called ``Duff`` is allowed which is played to show the pleasure and success. Besides this the poetry without music is also allowed, to a limit.

I have read from a valid source that music is allowed in Islam as long as it does not instruct us or tempt us to do wrong or haraam things.

My advice is not to listen to any mullahs but to listen to the words of the wuran and associated islamic texts of fact!!

Enough said??

#43 by mog

That was the whole point. When you are having a good time and enjoying good music, you often end up leaving your biases behind. Just like the Indian crowd dancing to Pakistani patriotic songs, many of our religious friends are often seen listening to music, although they would give lecture on music being haraam otherwise. :) What’s the thanedaar and Hyundai Santro connection? Thanks.

#42 by omar_r_quraishi
``dude why comment on something u have little or no knowledge of ? as in the pakistani music scene -- jang is u ???? wow, how profound jang jee -- ``

dont call me dude omar from the tribe of quraish. either validate my conjecture or argue whay why its wrong (please).

AhmedBilal/40 welcome back You mean the Pakistanis and Indians were dancing together did anybody step on anybody else`s toes did you not object if some Indians were dancing too close to Pakistanis terrible now you will be labled a Paki-basher too got to go find a thanedaar and a Hyundai Santro now.

#41 by jang on July 14, 2004 3:02pm PT -- 00181596
#38 by omar_r_quraishi on July 14, 2004 6:42am PT
look, junoon is a ``rock`` band with wailing guitars. they may be riding the sufi band-wagon, but they aint no sabri brothers. so i think their audience is the burger class. if that is incorrect, tell me why so with something more logical than calling me delusional. and jang is me.

dude why comment on something u have little or no knowledge of ? as in the pakistani music scene -- jang is u ???? wow, how profound jang jee --

#38 by omar_r_quraishi on July 14, 2004 6:42am PT
look, junoon is a ``rock`` band with wailing guitars. they may be riding the sufi band-wagon, but they aint no sabri brothers. so i think their audience is the burger class. if that is incorrect, tell me why so with something more logical than calling me delusional. and jang is me.

ballukhan

The blueprint for what you describe as the ``ambitious`` mullah`s M.O. was handed down by Washington. The root of the problem started with their unthinking and destructive policies. So-called Jehadis are no different than anti-commie barbarians who Americans supported in South and central America.

Now, Americans are out of that game. Yet the momentum of the Jehadi`s goes on strong. Mullah does it for what he thinks is a higher cause, but is himself being used by Generals just as America used Pakistan. It`s like a father who abuses the child...child ends up becoming an abuser as well.

Needless to say, the source of the problem may be America but they`ve completely washed their hands of the mess...Paks can cry over the rubbish or do their best to clean it up. For certain, putting this responsibility on anyone else (esp. Americans again) will only lead to a bigger mess.

I don`t understand those Pak generals sometimes...cold war is over, yet they doggedly stick to cold war stratagems.

Junoon did a concert here a couple of years back. As usual they were nice enough to let us gather in front of the stage and party. The crowd had a large number of Indians too. Everything was rock n roll as usual till they started a patriotic song “Jazba-e-Junoon”. When they reached the “Pakistan kabhi na bhoolo” part, a portion of the dancing Indian crowd stopped, which was followed by embarrassed looks and whispers. But soon they realized that it was ok and joined the chorus in best spirit of having fun with the music.

#32 by jang on July 13, 2004 2:43pm PT
perhaps the establishment tacitly supports anti-music stance becuase music would tend to be indian (although clearly, everyone loves the music). juoon etc is ok as its kind of phoren and more or less restricted to the burger class.

-- yet another pearl of wisdom from the delusional jang jee -- who by the way refuses to reveal his `persona`-- yes ali azmat is so phoren -- esp his broken english and his frequent use of punjabi in tv interviews --

#35 by vertex on July 13, 2004 10:50pm PT

Ofcourse most of the `revolutionary` separatist movements all over the world have ripped heavily from the Handbooks of Socialistic Guerilla Warfare. So the Islamic revolutionary ripping is understood. Ofcourse the average mullah is more of a bufoon- whose knowledge of nature and sciences is tolerated as a part of our folklores . He is a good chap who tries to keep the Ummah together with his services.
But the ambitious ones are the dangerous ones- and their machinations has an economic base which I have spoken in the Jehadi economics. This economy only benefits these ambitious mullahs and those elites who want to utilize his power of unlimited violence over the people due to his band of zealots that he grooms. So these ambitious mullahs are like a mob leader- like a state within a state who creates his own rules by his power to interpret the tradition and the faith and by the power that he holds over the followers. And once he has access to the latest arms - his power to threaten others becomes manifold- and becomes virtually un-assailable.
That is what has happened in Pakistan- its mullahs have become organized mob leaders and have access to the latest arms. They are ambitious, they want a piece of pie from their local economy which thrives despite them (modern states call this as Taxes!) and for doing all this they have the desire and courage to proclaim themselves as the sole representative of the almighty. The Jehadi economy now runs the madarassas, gives salaries to the Jehadis, provides insurance covers to the Jehadi families, run the best arms and narcotics business, sell anything they can , provide protection, seek taxes and protection money (as donations) and even helps army (or anyone for that matter!) to topple governments.
So who is to blame still for this- the Americans or You and Me?

#35 by vertex on July 13, 2004 10:50pm PT

Ofcourse most of the `revolutionary` separatist movements all over the world have ripped heavily from the Handbooks of Socialistic Guerilla Warfare. So the Islamic revolutionary ripping is understood. Ofcourse the average mullah is more of a bufoon- whose knowledge of nature and sciences is tolerated as a part of our folklores . He is a good chap who tries to keep the Ummah together with his services.
But the ambitious ones are the dangerous ones- and their machinations has an economic base which I have spoken in the Jehadi economics. This economy only benefits these ambitious mullahs and those elites who want to utilize his power of unlimited violence over the people due to his band of zealots that he grooms. So these ambitious mullahs are like a mob leader- like a state within a state who creates his own rules by his power to interpret the tradition and the faith and by the power that he holds over the followers. And once he has access to the latest arms - his power to threaten others becomes manifold- and becomes virtually un-assailable.
That is what has happened in Pakistan- its mullahs have become organized mob leaders and have access to the latest arms. They are ambitious, they want a piece of pie from their local economy which thrives despite them (modern states call this as Taxes!) and for doing all this they have the desire and courage to proclaim themselves as the sole representative of the almighty. The Jehadi economy now runs the madarassas, gives salaries to the Jehadis, provides insurance covers to the Jehadi families, run the best arms and narcotics business, sell anything they can , provide protection, seek taxes and protection money (as donations) and even helps army (or anyone for that matter!) to topple governments.
So who is to blame still for this- the Americans or You and Me?

ballu,

Actually, scourage of do-it-yourself Jehadi groups didn`t start untill Afghan war. Once the self-help books went out, you had do-it-yourselfers popping up everywhere from Bosnia to Kashmir. Most of the manual is ripped out of the pages of Socialist revolutionary tactics anyway....

Anyhoo, your average grunt mullah isn`t really a part of the process. ISI S*it disturbers and secular types (first Americans, now Pakis) are actually runing the show...and quite frankly the ``opposition`` is making it easy to gain recruits because of their brain-dead, penis-swinging attitudes when confronting ``Jehadis`` (i.e. anyone who doesn`t follow govt. line).

#31 by Ras on July 13, 2004 10:25am PT
I think we all pity the poor, un-educated and the simple `mullahs`. The problem is that the `mullah` fails to understand how the almighty has not provided him with the comforts of life on the earth when he has already given it to them the apostate west?

So he goes with vengence to destroy all that is not with him and uses religious sermons as the starting point of his frustration due to his marginalization in the world economy. Then he starts a Jehadi group, recruits poor boys, gets some dollars from Chowki sympathisers as donation, then constructs his own house with these dollars, finds a decently clean and healthy bride and marries, then he expands his jehadi business by making some hits, and then he organizes a gathering against American expansionism, then he collects more money from business houses and political parties- and now we have another mullah who has arrived!!! The story is clear - unless and until the Chowki contributers stop giving him the dollars he will keep on expanding his jehadi-business untill it engulfs the Pakistani economy itself.

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perhaps the establishment tacitly supports anti-music stance becuase music would tend to be indian (although clearly, everyone loves the music). juoon etc is ok as its kind of phoren and more or less restricted to the burger class.

First of all I`m really glad to see this article on CHOWK.

I really liked this program and tried to promote its viewing within our community last year.


RE: #25 ``seinfeld`` all I can add is touche!


Although my problems with these people referred to as ``Mullahs`` continue I do respect

some of them for the work that they do. They are a part of our culture and have a place

in it that cannot be ignored. At birth, weddings and death, these ``Mullahs`` are there

for us. I hope that some of the other Liberal-Left Wing- Secularists will find some

more appreciation of them too.

It is not the ``Mullahs`` but these born-again ``Professional Muslims`` that are

the problem, those that have weird political and social agendas and fly planes into

buildings. Those that cannot tolerate dissent, minorities and the talent that God has

given to individuals to excel in the arts. Those that think Islam starts and ends with

the suppression of women and cannot control their lust at an exposed ankle.


That said and done, Salman, in my handful of conversations with him appeared to be a

reasonable and down to earth chap who is probably more religious then I am. He is

respectful of religion and that is why the ``Mullahs`` respect him in return. Maybe a few

more of us can be more accomodating and open to communicate new ideas to religious

people too and at this time help the ``Mullah`` in his time of crisis.

( I can`t believe that I just wrote that! )


Ras

Islam seems to be a very funny religion. It is a game of ``Find-A-Hadees`` for those who can learn to read and ``Listen-To-A-Fatwa`` for those who can`t :)

Ballukhan

Yaar, but is there ANY way muslims have discovered to be able to keep the Mullah from forcing his way (or the female Mullahs we see on Chowk, from forcing their way) of life on the others? As you would understand, for non Muslims, THAT is the heart of the matter.

#16 by Bina_Shah on July 11, 2004 8:38am PT

I think this point was left unappreciated! Yes, if mullahs hate music, shaved men, lipsticks on women, all icons of the modern living then he is welcome to lead his way of life of the middle ages.
He has no right to force his way of life on the others!!!

Agree with Malik99 and Ahmed Bilal. Way to go, Seinfield!

I do not think that Islam disapproves of music at all.

When the Holy prophet Muhammad ( P.B.U.H ) migrated to Madina, some Medinite females and males showed their support for him, by beating drums in a rhythmatic fashion. As far as i am aware of, the holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) did not stop them.

In another Hadees, i discovered that once our Prohet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) attended a wedding. There, he asked one of men, why the women were not singing a particular song. He (P.B.U.H) is reported to have really liked that particular traditional wedding song.

Hence, according to me, Islam does not discourage listening to music.

ps. simply love Junoon`s songs.

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I watched the documentary, Bina, and was moved to see the respect that mullah-to-be`s showed to Salman when he visited them at the madarssah. I was pleasantly surprised to see that you specifically pointed it out in your article. I wish more writers adopt that kind of out-of-the-box approach, instead of simply observing the obvious and beating up on it. If we want to prevent the mullah-to-be’s from becoming violent hardliners, we need to encourage them for all the beautiful things they possess. It is true that any nonsense that is uttered or committed by them needs to be brought in the limelight, but we also need to acknowledge their virtues and expose the numerous beautiful things that most of them do and say but never get any credit for. I am sure most viewers of this documentary got hung up with the astonishing rubbish from Mr. Electricity, and few of them thought twice about the warmth and respect that Salman received from the mullahs.

While I personally disagree with the mullah agenda, I can tell you that the kind of respect that Salman got from these people was not because he is a famous rock star with a camera crew behind his shoulder, but because he was just someone who wanted to pay them a visit and have a conversation with them. They would have treated any human being from the street with the same level of respect and dignity, regardless of his belief and practices.

It is hard to deny that while Salman was getting what appeared to be easy access with open arms from the so-called intolerant mullah-to-be`s, doors were being shut on the faces of scores of mullah-to-be`s all over the country. Can you imagine a mullah-to-be walking into a gathering of rock bands to exchange his ideas with them and getting similar level of respect? Can you imagine the amount of attitude, scorn, and humiliation he would have to face? I don`t think he would even be allowed to make it through the gates! But aren`t WE the ones who are supposed to be ``tolerant``? We may not get the mullah-to-be`s to pick up a guitar, but can we do something to prevent them from picking up guns? May be loving, respecting, and appreciating them for who they are would help prevent this young, well-meaning majority from getting exploited at the hands of the small minority of violent extremists.

PM #22

Music was extremely important for Plato. In the educational system he envisaged, Music was given a central place. He did consider the effects of some kinds of music to be less desirable than that of others. That position is no different from that held by many today.

This tradition is entirely apart from that which sees dance, drama, sculpture, music as evil and undesirable in themselves.

I saw this documentary a while ago, I think they aired it about a year ago. Interesting Stuff.

There is music and there is music- jsut as there is (sublime) literature and then (awful) literature. Not for nothing did Plato (who you can hardly accuse of being an ecclesiastic obscurant) advocate discretion in the teaching/practising music and the other related arts. It would help if all parties could make that distinction before crosssing swords.

As a side note to this whole discussion, following is a bit on Maulana Bijli Ghar (Referred to as Mulla Electricity in the article and Mulla Bijli in the discussion).

The said person used to be a `lakhtai`. A `lakhtai` in Pushto is referred to as the boy who accompanies musicians to weddings, and other festivities where the musicians perform. The lakhtai`s job is to gather the money that is showered on the musicians and on the people dancing infront of them by friends and relatives. The lakhtai might also dance to the tunes during his important money-gathering job...the boy is usually of quite a young age so his presence amidst the dancing people is not quite felt.

Somewhere along the line, young Bijli Ghar started attending a local Madrassa and scaled the heights (?!?) to International stardom and got featured in some rocker`s documentary in BBC. The recordings of his speeches (where he swears and spews all sorts of obscenities and vulgarities) can be bought in the local audio centres in Old Peshawar (Hasht-nagr area). People listen to them for fun.

Its interesting to see how and where people end up during the course of their lives.

Bina #16
You wrote `` The Mullah can just not listen to music himself if he doesn`t like it. Instead he tries to stop everyone from listening, performing, being an audience, or buying music. ``
It is a very general statement. If we hold a surevy in different parts of pakistan whether we can listen music, or buy music, i am sure we will be able to do so. In lahore, I saw people listening music on cycles, motorcycles, public transportation, and in bazars.
Mullah is NOT the cause of each problem we are facing in pakistan. He himself is a victim of poverty, indoctrination, and poor education. Do you know under what circumstances an average Moulvi grow up? He is a product of his educatuon as we are of our education. We should do research on reason why they become so alien to mainstream? If we have good positive prospour environment, we will produce good citizen, and a transparent society.
At least we should give him credit for he is less hypocrtaive in expressing his opinion unlike many of us. Watch Geo TV, and listen ruling ministers, and you ll know what i mean.
When you start loving a person, yo really dislike, you take a spirtual leap. We should be tolerant to Mullah as well, when we teach him the tolerance.

Rozaiba
I need to know more detail about the incident before i can comment on that. I will not defend such acts. I am saying that we should look into his environment, and have a better understanding of them.

Atif
Thanks.

Regards,
shahry

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The Mullah can just not listen to music himself if he doesn`t like it. Instead he tries to stop everyone from listening, performing, being an audience, or buying music.

I think the point of the documentary was really to try and get people to be tolerant of each other and listen to one another instead of blindly issuing fatwas or ignoring each other. Not sure how tolerant each side is though of the other!

i strongly believed that the documentry is a ridicule on Islam and unfortunately the guy who make this is also a muslim.. so shameful thing... if we have some differences then isnt it good that we solve them within ourselves whats the reason of telling apney ghar ki batein to stranger,
what we call a person who tells your personal things to strangers.. what was Salman ahmed trying to do...just a publicity and in the way of his publicity he does not even think what is he doing....

tell you one thing... Islam is not make or built by Mullahs, it is there and Allah has given this religion to us from Hzarat Muhammad (SW), and it is complete then no one has amended it.. and no one can,, as Allah Himself took the responsibility.
So, now the muslims are trying to tell Allah that we follow Islam but the Islam Mullahs tell us is not the Islam our Prophet gave us it is something else....
WOW.. we muslims listen to Bush of US when he says Islam is a religion of peace but when same thing is said by some mullah we dont ever care.., what is he saying...

Islam gave the peace to mankind....but what is Osama doing or taliban doing was to save Islam and their nation from Jews and christians....

some ppl say that muslims are violent,...just tell me one thing.. who invaded Afghanistan....???
Iraq????
Phalastine...???
KAshmir...???
christians and jews.. rite???
so isnt it the duty of the ppl of the nations to stiop them from ruining their countries...
and as all muslims are one family... (u pppl must agree) isnt it a duty of other fellow muslims to help them .. and not help the enemies...??

power is yours...and its your decision whre you use it...

so ppl think a little.. what is rite and what is wrong... dont just start making comments about things....

there is a question for all of you...

HOW MANY TIMES YOU LIE IN A DAY....EVEN SMALL ONES??
if you can answer that question to urself and stop lieing... you will be a great muslim...
as lieing is one of the major differences bwtween non-muslim and muslim.



PS : I am not captain planet ;)

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garam_chai:

you wrote:

``As long as Mullah hold his opinion against music, and he does not impose upon other. Society should acomodate his opinion.``


Unfortunately, the Mullah DOES IMPOSE upon others. Even in places where the Mullah has NOT won elections, there are fatwas issued on banning local cultural dances that have been performed for centuries. Case in point, in the Northern Areas of Pakistan.

Salman is right in trying to take such topics head on.

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Bina
I am confused over objectives of Salman`s dialogue with Mullah Electricity. Let say that the Mullah agree with Salaman, what do we achieve from that? I dont think that it is a black & white issue. To me, it seems nothing more than a marketing for Salman. It is similar situation when a shia and sunni mullah arguing with each other to convince the other. Simply holding guitar, copying western beats and outlook does not make you a liberal person. Similarly, keepin long beard and teaching in maddrassah does not mak you a conservative irrational person. As long as Mullah hold his opinion against music, and he does not impose upon other. Society should acomodate his opinion. How does music in particular make you more spirtual? I think that it is your kind heart, strong moral values, and belief on the God make you spirtual person. What am i saying, that it comes from inside, like a fountain water.
I remember a Khan Baba from my street in lahore. He used to put the dry soil on slipping area in our street, when it had rained in summer. He did all that for no recognition, and for not means. I found it to be the most spirtual act, helping fellow humans silently without making speeches and arguement. Arguing with Mullah, and publishing the storey on BBC has no substance or value in it.

Regards,
shahryar

Malik99, your one sided argument about Salman confronting an extremely `fundo-sitic` maulvi, who thinks all 50+ countries are unislamic is not true. Well brother, he did confront some liberal mollahs, in one of Karachi`s best madrassahs too, so he showed both sides of the story! What a great documentary! I heard hes making another one pretty soon!

Salman Ahmed 4 life! And Maluana Bijli can stick it!

X vs. the mullahs seems to be big business now. I think a lot of people who occupy the X slot should thank the mullahs. If these documentaries were just about X (where X = music, political philosophies, social habits etc.) and not X vs. the mullahs, I doubt too many people would watch them. Definitely not in the West.

Other than the MMA banning music at public functions, I am not sure what kind of restriction there is on music in Pakistan. And even this ban is more political than anything else. It will go away, once MMA cannot win political points out of it (kind of like Sikh politicians wearing kirpans in Canadian politics). Music is otherwise booming business in Pakistan. And has always been one.

So while such documentaries do point to one particular area of Pakistan, they tend to portray the whole problem as something much greater than it is. A much better documentary would have been, one based on someone going into the Red Light area (where much of Pakistan`s music talent used to come out of, and still comes out of), and trying to figure out why there has been a cultural taboo associated with certaining performing arts in Pakistan.

This taboo has now reduced to a great degree in music and TV. But still exists for movies and dancing, and too some extent for female singing.

Rock Star and Heera Mandi; that would be something that would hit at the real problem........

I agree with Malik99 ... #4

Salman`s one hell of a rock star! Also liked the international debut of Maulana Bijli.

Pakistanis love Music... and no Mullah is ever going to be allowed to ban it.

Kinda reminds me of this story by Ghulam Abbas.... oh never mind... I already told you about that one..

-YLH

PS: Saw this documentary a while ago... Salman Ahmed has his heart at the right place... unfortunately however... the documentary failed to impress...

Having seen this documentary multiple times (since I have a recording of it) I must say it was quite interesting. Salman’s dialogue with Mullah Electricity (at end of which, Mullah himself ended up singing something) and his reciting of some Quranic verses in the madrassah while he played a riff on his guitar were the main highlights I think. And why can’t one do that, when the book itself is quite poetic and rhythmic. Even Azaan is recited in some Arabic scale, as Salman pointed out.

MMA has to realize that people didn’t vote them in to ban music, and most of their voters are quite ticked off at their policies. They got all those votes cashing on the anti-American sentiment in NWFP, because NWFP people have ethnic ties with Taliban in Afghanistan. Next time, they are going to be kicked out, because they haven’t delivered on any of their promises. Other provinces didn’t vote for them anyway.

This documentary reminds me of some interesting experiences from the university days in Pakistan. Even the tableeghi people who sometimes walked into my room for their usual tableegh never left without hearing a riff or two on the guitar. They didn’t manage to convince me to join their ranks, but I wonder if any of them picked guitar too. Music is a part of every one of us, and denying it is something unnatural.

Tradition local music in Pakistan seems to be in danger of extinction because classical and folk music doesn’t appeal to majority of the young audience (something which is globally true perhaps). So that void is being filled by the ever-growing rock/pop bands in all major urban centers of Pakistan. But most of these new bands sound quite raw and need a strong music industry (instead of corporate sponsorships) to back them up.

The good thing is that unlike Zia’s 80’s, people are now quite open to accepting music and musicians. Number of public concerts has increased in magnitudes, and TV channels have started giving plenty of coverage to music, including emergence of dedicated music channels. Probably 10 years from now, we will have a strong music industry, driven by the rock stars of 90’s, as they get older and move towards production stuff.

Thanks.

Abu`l Hassan Ali Hajveri, the Data Sahab of Lahore has given an apparently unbiased discourse on the status of music in Kashaful Mahjoob, his persian treatise on Sufism. I have scanned and uploaded it here:
Concerning Audition
This discourse is somewhat hard to comprehend for people who are not familiar with Sufi conventions. I recently saw a detailed and very interesting article supporting the legality of music, by Mr. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi. I`ll see if I can find the text again, and scan it into a pdf file to share on here.




Re: #2 by freethinker
In his interpretation in footnotes, Maudoodi has tied “Lah-wal-Hadith” directly with singing. He has quoted several traditions (Hadith) in support of his claim.

Sir, I would advise you never to trust this honorable but crooked Islamic scholar. There are more than one versions of each hadith listed in the compilations one after another. Modudi is known to take only one of the versions that supports his point of view. He has committed this dishonesty in such debates as the status of music, the punishment of apostacy and the finality of prophethood.

[Salman Ahmed is a man on a mission: to challenge Pakistan`s hardline mullahs on why they believe music is not allowed in Islam. ]

I watched this documentary. I am wondering if ``mission`` is the correct way to put it. I mean, a ``mission`` is when you are on the losing side of the argument and you are trying to change the equation. Clearly music-hating mullahs have lost this argument looooooong time ago. Music lovers have won (not that they lost it at any time in Islamic history. Music has been alive and kicking throughout Islamic history - Abbasid, Ottoman, Mughal, Safavid empires) Just look around and see the EXPLOSION of music bands in Pakistan in the last 20 years. Not that prior to these 20 years there was any shortage of musicians either.

So not sure if the purpose of this documentary is to convert the converted (that is the music lovers) or to enlighten those music-hating mullahs that they should not look down upon music. If it is the later, then BBC has just spent an enormous capital for a ``mission`` few people care about in Pakistan.

Besides, if Salman is sincere in his attempts to get the answers on why some Mullahs believe that Music is haraam, then getting into ``intellectual`` arguments with a Mullah who believes that ``all the people living in the world`s 52 Islamic nations are the children of swine. `` is perhaps an exercise in futility. You know at that time in documentary that you will not get to hear the compelling arguments against music (believe me, i have heard some `compelling` arguments against music. Not that I have ever subscribed to them. I love U2 way too much). Unless of course, if the documentary is looking for entertainment value for the viewers to increase its ratings.

Bina Shah:

It was time for a Muslim rock star to collide with a Mullah and mullahism. There are almost un-resolvable conflicts between religion and culture. People find difficult to live without culture even if they have to abandon the puritanical faith in the religion, or religion itself if push comes to shove. So the priorities are clear.

The issue of music and singing, and Islam is age-old. People have ignored its implications and moved ahead with their lives. “Happiness is no sin” and what is a better way to express feeling of happiness than by singing. And singing they do.

I haven’t found any direct reference to singing or Mauseeqi in Quran. The closest that I came to the mention of singing in Quran is an interpretation of verse 6, chapter 31 (Luqman) of Quran.

According to Yusuf Ali’s translation, the verse reads as follows:

But there are among men, those who purchase idle tales, without
Knowledge for meaning, to mislead (men) from the Path.

The key word in Quran is “Lah-wal-Hadith”, which Yusuf Ali has translated as “idle tales”. Maudoodi (Tafheem-ul-Quran, Vol. 4, pp. 9-10) has translated it as “kalam-e-dilfareb” meaning approximately “attractive words.” In his interpretation in footnotes, Maudoodi has tied “Lah-wal-Hadith” directly with singing. He has quoted several traditions (Hadith) in support of his claim. According to one of them attributed to Anas, “who ever listens to the songs of a slave singing girl (laundi) will be condemned at the Doom’s Day and molten lead will be poured into his ears.” It’s a great stretch from the text of the Quran.

Mr. Ahmad and other cultural revolutionaries are not going to buy it, and they shouldn’t, and they will justifiably hammer as to why Maudoodi’s interpretation be any weightier than Yusuf Ali’s. Rock music has become a fact of our life and it will remain. So Mullahs should find a way to live with it. The Mullah’s religion needs to be laundered to give it a shine appropriate to the needs of modern times.

Sheikh Abdul Qadir has mentioned in the Preface of Iqbal’s “Baang-e-Dara” that Iqbal at one time had seriously considered abandoning his natural gift of poetry to do something more meaningful. He did not give any specific reason for his thought but there is a religious “slur” on the poets also. Quran has berated the poets also.

What a great cultural loss it would have been had Iqbal abandoned poetry.

Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

Interesting and yet another ``ground level`` article on Pakistan.

Finally understood why films and music were absolutely kosher on board buses and inside homes/hotel rooms in Pakistan, television and video seems to be ``always on`` wherever you go in Pakistan . . . . while music is simply not heard in other open public places . . . maybe SOMEBODY needs to pay off the cops and place a few speakers and a link to worldspace in public areas, to start with.

Cacophony, maybe, is what you may get in the beginning, but hey, it has dynamics of its own too, which will resolve soon, right?

I think too many stiff upper lips in Pakistan have spent a couple of generations trying to be ``propah``, now it is time to unwind, stop blaming the Saudis for your own melancholic attributes, and get along, shake a leg. I walked into this cattle/farm animal fair in a little town in Punjab a few months ago when I went walkabout in Pakistan, and Mullah or no Mullah, they had local music blaring from the loudspeakers as well as promise of a ``record dance`` later in the evening with male actors in drag.

Once again, the acoustics and score for Phantom of the Opera at Islamabad Club was, to my discerning ears, about the best I`ve heard lately in our part of the world. Some of the key roles were played by orthodox Haafiz young men.

The question, therefore, should now be changed, and asked again:- ``why is music not allowed (openly) in Pakistan``, instead of Islam.

The possible answer may have to do with something as simple as haftaas to the cops. But when you have even the local English media running for their lives with tails between their legs when the local SHO yells at them, then how would an artiste or singer be expected to push the envelope? All music is also media, and all media is about mind-bending, right?

So, if the mind-benders in Pakistan wish to retain control, then one simple method would be to destroy all other tools of mind-bending. Music, traditions, folklore, ceremonies, happiness . . . all these, and more, replaced by stern dictates. I mean, it took BBC to make a movie on the subject? In and about Pakistan?