Protestant Introspection Is Destiny

yawn -- wonder what is achieved by printing such drivel

Re: malik99 #8

Fair enough!

Faruk

malik99 #14

``There are no promoters of ``vice`` in pakistan who say taking bribe is ok. Same goes for prostitution. But these problems exist.``

Have you ever found anyone on chowk blaming Islam for the existence of bribery or prostitution in Pakistan? So you are presenting a totally fake argument in defense of Islam.

Islam is not blamed for bribery and prostitution. It is blamed for much worse - for the suppression and dehumanization of minorities, for its barbaric laws against women, for its inability to create an enlightened education system, for its anti-science regressive character, and for the fanaticism and influence of its mullahs.

Great article warpster, I had forgotten how the black culture used to be before rap and things of that nature came to be. The article definetly showed a different facet of the black cultural retardation issue.

Since the topic is introspection and self criticism, it`s only natural to talk about Islam. duh! Problems, laws, issues, problems (a little repetitive) are linked with misleading interpretations of Islam. So when a desi practices some good ole` introspection, Islam is bound to come up as the pinnacle of his train of thought.

Back to the black issue. I think rap has played a major role in the retardation of the general black population. Their language just becomes more and more cruder as every new fitty cent, ludacris, or peete pablo song is released. On top of the negative messages that these songs carry rappers go even further to top the charts by committing felonies in order to let the public know that they`re still hustlers, pimps, or w/e. For example, TI recently released an album, and now he`s in jail. Now why the hell is someone going to hustle drugs after they`ve reached stardom? TO GET CAUGHT. The list of crimes goes on. Every now and then a positive rap song does get released but it never really catches on. The rap industry is built on drugs, sex, and violence. Now if this is one of the ``cultural outlets`` that blacks rely on...then cultural retardation is bound to happen.

mr a shiraz -- whats with the anger dude -- u need to chill a bit -- and i could have sworn that i have come across the byline `artur shiraz` in the pakistani print media

BRITAIN ENACTING BLASPHEMY LAWS

Introspection at work in Britain:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3871867.stm

``That is, not EVERY SINGLE law, issue, problem in Pakistan can be traced back to the fact that its inhabitants are muslims``

Many problems, laws, issues, problems in Pakistan can be traced back to the fact that the Muslims of Pakistan are beseiged by a psychotic, traumatic set of cultic values that pass for religion (otherwise known as Islam or fundamentalist Islam) the same or variant versions plague Morrocco ...insert other Islamic countries ...Indonesia.

The topic is introspection and self criticism , not Islam. Why are you so obsessed with it?

Ralph # 11 - you wrote ``If China had a law that said that nothing contrary to Buddhism could be enacted into law - then IT WOULD NOT BE RIDICULOUS to correct the enviromental problems by `reforming` buddhism first. ``

EXACTLY my point ! That is, not EVERY SINGLE law, issue, problem in Pakistan can be traced back to the fact that its inhabitants are muslims. Its your sick obesession with Islam that is making you see ALL of our issues through the lense of religion. There are no promoters of ``vice`` in pakistan who say taking bribe is ok. Same goes for prostitution. But these problems exist. When people like you bring in the religion to explain these, then it blurs the real reasons for these problems.

A very thoughtful discussion is by John McWhorter in ``Losing the Race`` wherein he documents the cult of victimhood, separatism and anti-intellectualism as three problems that are retarding this community.

Contrary to what the author claims, I`d say the AA community is NOT the envy of anyone. It is quite possibly the sickest culture in the world (and I mean it in the nicest possible way) with extraordinary problems that have got significantly worse since the 1970s.

One more article puts this issue in clearer perspective.

Three cheers for the Cos
Walter E. Williams (archive)

May 17 saw several gatherings commemorating the 50th anniversary of the 1954 U.S. Supreme Court school desegregation decision in Brown vs. Board of Education. But the event held in Washington, D.C.`s Constitution Hall will be the one to be remembered because of Bill Cosby`s remarks, which won him scathing criticism from some in the black community.

For years, I`ve argued that most of the problems many black Americans face today have little or nothing to do with racial discrimination. For the most part, the most devastating problems encountered by a large segment of the black community are self-inflicted. Bill Cosby mentioned several of them, such as black parents who`ll buy their children expensive clothing rather than something educational, poor language spoken by many children and adults, and criminals who prey on the overwhelmingly law-abiding residents of black neighborhoods.

After Cosby`s remarks, some in the audience laughed and applauded, but, according to The Washington Post, the black ``leadership`` in attendance, the head of the NAACP, the head of the NAACP legal defense fund and the president of Howard University were ``stone-faced.``

In a recent column, my colleague Thomas Sowell explained, ``Bill Cosby and the black `leadership` represent two long-standing differences about how to deal with the problems of the black community. The `leaders` are concerned with protecting the image of blacks, while Cosby is trying to protect the future of blacks, especially those of the younger generation.``

Bill Cosby and I differ in age by one year -- I`m older. We both spent part of our youth, in the 1940s and 1950s, growing up in North Philadelphia`s Richard Allen housing project. Being poor then was different from being poor now. My sister and I were rare among Richard Allen`s residents. Our parents were separated, but nearly every other kid lived in a two-parent household. Black teen pregnancy was relatively rare and just a tiny fraction of today`s. During those days, many residents rarely locked their doors until the last person came home. Hot summer nights saw many people fearlessly sleeping in their yards or on their balconies.

Today, less than 40 percent of black children live in two-parent families, compared to 70 percent and 80 percent in earlier periods. Illegitimacy, at 70 percent, is unprecedented in black history. Between 1976 and 2000, over 50 percent of all homicides in the United States were committed by blacks, and 94 percent of the time, the victim was black. These are devastating problems, but are they caused by racism, and will spending resources fighting racial discrimination solve them?

Don`t give me any of that legacy-of-slavery nonsense unless you can explain why all of these problems were not worse during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, at a time when blacks were much closer to slavery, were much poorer, faced more discrimination and had fewer opportunities.

With all the opportunities available today, unavailable when Cosby and I were youngsters, black youngsters who dedicate themselves to academic excellence are attacked both verbally and sometimes physically for ``acting white`` and for being ``Oreos`` and ``brainiacs.`` California Berkeley professor John McWhorter says, ``Insidious anti-intellectualism is the prime culprit in the school-performance gap between whites and blacks, which cuts across class and income lines.`` He adds that the rap music culture ``retards black success by the reinforcement of hindering stereotypes and by teaching young blacks that a thuggish adversarial stance is the properly authentic response to a presumptively racist society.``

In at least two important ways, black America is a study of contrasts. By any measure, as a group, black Americans have made greater gains over some of the highest hurdles in the shortest span of time than any other racial group in human history. At the same time, for a large segment of the black community, these gains are elusive and will remain so under the current civil rights vision.

Bill Cosby`s bold comments might be what`s necessary to get an honest and fruitful discussion going within the black community, and for that, we all owe him thanks.

and this is to convince us of the benefits of introspection? Jebus! get a life.

``I am pretty sure that its black man`s religion that is holding him backwards. ``

Indeed a lot of Blacks are converting to Islam or catholicism which do have regressive primitive values that are anti modern.

``He is simply anti-muslim``

Anti-Fundamentalist Interpretations of Islam NOT anti-Muslims. Many Ahmedis and Bohris and some shias and even some sects of sunnis are very moderate.

``Arthur Shiraz``

Its NOT Arthur Shiraz , its NOT Ariel Shiraz it is Athar Shiraz.

Beware that the fundamentalist paranoia of the few push many of us away from Islam and Muslims.

``So if you try to correct environmental problems in china - it would be ridiculous to start by `reforming` budhism first.``

Yaar, this is getting so pathetic.

If China had a law that said that nothing contrary to Buddhism could be enacted into law - and/or

If china had powerful buddhist religious players that acted as promoters of buddhist virtue and eliminators of vice

then IT WOULD NOT BE RIDICULOUS to correct the enviromental problems by `reforming` buddhism first.

You can`t blame everything on religon, as already stated many other aspects come into play when trying to discover the root of any social problem.

In regards to ``If someone wants to change/reform Islam is he essentially against the faith.?``

This is sooo not true. First one has to define Islam, and Islam is what is passed down through the Quran and Hadith. Change and Reform come into play whne you look at the interpretaiton of the Quran by a certain society and one analyzes how the society blends the religon into it`s culture. Pakistan, in my opinion, takes advantage of religon. If it`s in the name of Islam, then everything is good. By using these kinds of exploitative tactics, fanatic mullahs and scholars can make almost any kind of an interpretation possible (for example, the questionability if the Quran really says that women must wear hijab and abayas)...so anyways I think a purer form of Islam (speaking for the general population) is practiced in the US (a ``secular`` country) as opposed to countries that claim to be Islamic which celebrate their religon which is infused and biased by culture.

In order to answer that question one must also define faith, which is Islam (in this casE) in it`s purest form straight from the Quran. Now if one wants to change the way it is interpretated, he/she is not going against the faith at all. In fact he/she is going against the culture that interpretated it in the biased way that it was deduced to begin with.

Another side note: isn`t it funny how black people kind of go into almost orgasmic episodes when at church...just a generalization. Now I know this isn`t true for all of them, but for the southern folk especially. It kind of reminds me of how mullahs get so passionate and fired up at this Islamic ``sermons,`` or sometimes even during prayer.

Malik99 #3

For American blacks the dominant part of their identity, the most important determinant of much of their lives, is their race. It`s being black that makes the difference.

In Pakistan that role is played by Islam. What matters in Pakistan is one`s belief that Muhammad was the last prophet of God, or that God will not now send any more prophets.

Faruk - you wrote ``If someone wants to change/reform Islam is he essentially against the faith.?``

Not at all. However, when you start to see each and every problem there is in Pakistan by attacking religion first, you are not being responsible. As an example - The fact that americans care about environment but indians/pakistanis/chinese don`t - has nothing to do with the teachings of Christianity, hinduism, Islam or budhism. So if you try to correct environmental problems in china - it would be ridiculous to start by `reforming` budhism first.

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