Refugee for Life?

For all Indian friends, you have never BEEN ON THE RECEIVING END OF A PUNJABI, so you don`t know. Wahaj, whatever happened to you is just a pay back, don`t take it to your heart. Muhajirs were the last of the Pakistanis to declare themselves Mohajirs, as they were denied and are being denied rights, you cannot get a job in PIA, RAILWAYS, POLICE, ARMY, NAVY, AIRFORCE, ESTABLISHMENT, JUDICIARY AND OTHER PARA MILITARY FORCES. I would love to quote MUNNO BHAI here: According to him a Punjabi is a Dhoti Nation, if somebody stronger then him comes, he will lift the Dhoti from behind and if some weaker enemby shows up the lift the Dhoti from the front.
This is true story bro - This may be a land of opportunity for THEM but not for us....

test

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#77 Kaka betay

Isnt Pakistanism(Your Words) the alternative to the Dai Eeent Ki masjid phenomenon raging through the nation since 47????

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#74 kkkandk
``So, what is kaka`s point? Why does kaka talk in the 3rd person singular? Also, if kaka does kaka on Chowk, please have kaka clean it up.
Thanks``

I am not saying it out of any form of contempt for kaka (I respect the guy has his views), but your rebuttal was hilarious. :::)))))

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#68: I think you are either too full of yourself or you forgot to follow the alphabetical order that is more appropriate: Baluchis, Muhajirs, Pathans, Punjabis, Sindhis, and Siraikis. To further subdivide the categories: Bohris, Christians, Hindus, Memons, Ismailis, Parsis, Qadiyanis, Shias, Sunnis and others. I cannot think of anyone else. My apologies if any category was left out. I hope this helps.

Note: By the way, it depends if Muhajirs like to be known as Muhajirs vs. Urdu Speaking Community. Now, if they are the latter then please realign the categories appropriately. Hindustanis is a little awkward expression.

ZahraJ

I Agree.

Its important to listen and also to respond without falling down the claptrap of agressive rhetoric. Also one only responds if one is affected by the other`s words.

Muhajir Sindhi Punjabi Pashtoon Balochi Siraiki

How many more divisions do we need?

Rgds

A Pakistani

Mohajir: [ also hijrat]:

A much maligned and abused term. Wrongfully applied to deprecate others or to self-aggrandize oneself.

``shikam kee aag liyay phir rahee hai shehr b shehr
sug-e zamaana haiN, hUm kyaa hamare hijrat kiya``

Moving -out simply for economic benefit is not hijrat. Besides, an integral part of being a mohajir is a yearning to return to the base and not to wallow in diaspora.

I readily admit my own hijrat to west as `` HeejRRat`` , the coward that I am.

``Mein bhee uss bheeRR meiN thhaa jo sar-e maqtal aaee``

#64: [Are we still dissecting Ilogs......Coz I am game if your are ;)]

No. We are just having a nice cup of coffee and appreciating the content of our ilogs!

How about joining hands to form a mutual admiration society ?

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KKKandK #61

I respect your optimism about the MQM, but when in power all they have done is bite the very public they are suppose to be defending. The Bhatta Culture and similiar issues are proof of that. I do agree that the points you make in your post that should be done, but is MQM really going to do it? All I see or read now about them is how they want to takeover the lost Haqiqi areas and how they want to be backed up by the federal Govt in their never ending battle with the JI Islamists.

ZahraJ 59

Are we still dissecting Ilogs......Coz I am game if your are ;)

#3 by nikki7777

this nikki is gr8 fool.he dont know our country is already infested by 140millions of muslims.
95 % of their are traitors and he want one more.

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Syed Ali:

[On black burqas, I have heard that in UAE & Arabia women wear burqas without any garments underneath, quite liberating I would say :) ]

I guess the above sentiments are part and parcel of the muslim-ness and special pakistani status you care to claim. Keeping that in mind, I guess it`s time for Khairuddin Saga - Part II. This time you have a hero for the story who is caged in the confines of a black burqa and fantasizes about liberating moments. Good luck!

#49

Punjabi is written in both Shamukhi and Gurmukhi scripts you can educate yourselves by visiting,

www.apnaorg.com

also

http://www.lokpunjab.org

for the Punjabi Lok mela held in Dipalpur Pakistan info on this site is presented in Shahmukhi, Gurmukhi, and English

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Packing and moving 1000 miles only because their neighbour in Lakhnow was not their co-religionist may not make sense now -- though for some it still does -- but back then, most people who had means did move. As for your comment about enlightened people not moving like that because of communal reasons.... lets just say that people are still doing it. My sister left her home in, Greensboro, North Carolina in 2002 after her 7-year-old son was repeatedly beaten up by school bullies in the aftermath of September 11, to a more tolerant Northern state. Similarly, my Hindu Gujaratee friend who is married to a Ismaili Muslim moved to Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh to save her life after the 2002 Gujarat riots. Cant really say whether the threats to life and property were real or percieved only, but they were strong enough to make people leave the places they love or identify with. After the targeted killing of many shia doctors in Karachi, a couple of families I know also packed and left Pakistan, and they sure are educated and enlightened.

I think biggest problem Mohajirs have is that they thought they are moving to an utopian society where everything will be just like it is supposed to be perfect in a perfect Islamic society...now they discover it is not so....even after 90% of them are educated.

People migrating under duress from partitioned states makes sense but frankly it sounds very stupid for someone from say Lukhnow, a strongest hold of muslims and their culture, to pack and move(while his other brother stays back) about 1000 miles only because their neighbour in Lakhnow was not their co-religionist. Enlightened people don`t move like that because of communal reasons.

ardeshir:

i will be corrected on this undoubtedly if i am wrong, but the pakistanis who are punjab write and read in the nastaliq script. . .the words are punjabi, but it looks nothing like gurmukhi, it looks like urdu.

waris shah`s and bulleh shah`s works among others, are available to us in this script. my father showed me this 11 x17 colorful booklet which contained waris shah`s heer. he was educating me (i know next to nothing about punjabi literature and barely speak the language. . so much for my punjabiyat. LOL) on how in the middle of the story, waris shah breaks off and talks about more philosophical issues. (i`m quite certain that it was waris shah he was talking about and not bulleh). . .

You don`t sound like NIKKI. You sound more like sandle wearing NIKKA.

SOCIO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AT THE GRASS ROOTS AND CEDING OF SPACE BY THE STATE FOR THE CIVIL SOCIETY TO PERFORM.

Dear Ijaz

I couldnt agree with you more on this. Imagine political parties based on ideaology and not ethnic lines, The PPP(Sindh Primarily), PML ( Punjab), MQM (Karachi) rather than selling us the natinalistic empowerment they should be considering ideaological issues. Liberal, Progressive, Educationalist. I know its a utopia, but for me and my resolution to only be a Pakistani means that my kids will hopefully inherit that and until the social maelstorm and reality of this nationalistic ethnic divide is lambasted upon them, they will be only Pakistanis.

I am amazed how quickly we pakistanis can retract back to the same old arguments about how righteous our ethnic nationality is. I mean the point I am trying to make is that right at the beggining, like everything else, we lost the plot on this ethnic nationality issue. I understand that the other option to this is merely an unrealistic utopia, but wasnt Pakistan suppose to be the first state of its kind. A state which was carved out for the Muslims of India, not Punjabis of Western Punjab or Balochis or Pathans or UP Muslims. How could we than create such strong divisions so quick and make it part and parcel of our social economic setup. Every govt , military job requires your domicile area, isnt this ethnic profiling of sorts. I mean the point is whats wrong with only being a Pakistani?????

Without indulging in pro or anti Punajabi rhetoric can you try answering the above question.

Romair I agree 100%.
Most of these posts are peashooters fired from the hip. The ethnic issue is not as precarious as cited by these friends. Most provinces less NWFP have become homogenius. Far flung areas of Balochistan with development will also improve.
Cheerios

kkk #30 ``... just brute force or might is right. You are sounding more and more like a Jat. ``

Brute force and violence is the main method of all warrior races. But that might be hard for you to understand because it was always ``Love making`` that was the main `weapon` in the Rajasthani armoury...hahahahahahaha...

Cheer up fellas!!

What is this fuss about Urdu speaking Punjus nursing a grudge against Urdu speaking UPites and Biharis... Am I missing something??

BTW, what is the script of Punjabi people in Pakistan (this is under the assumption that some of them are literate and there is a written form of Punjabi where the script is not Gurumukhi)

Wajahat,

You are right, regardless of where we came from or which province we are from we are all Pakistani, and really thats all that should matter.

Although i do like to laugh at KHI vallahs by taking the piss out of them about their paan spitting habits etc it is all in jest (as many of the KHI vallahs take the piss out of Punjabis) i could never really imagine a Pakistan without any of its current ethnic groups.

Regards Urdu, all ppl in Pak have pretty much accepted this as national lingo - if they cannot speak it they at least understand it. To most ppl in Pak (those whose mother tongue is not Urdu) Urdu would make more sense and is easier and more intuitive to understand than English.

Regards the Punjabi bashing, i wish the non Punjabi ppl in Pak would realise that the average Punjabi is just as oppressed/discriminated/used and abused/controlled etc by the Punjabi elites as the rest of the country is.

PS our Sadar is from KHI and our soon to be new Vazeer-i-Aazam is also from KHI, i hope they can bring some kind of cohesiveness to our country. Ameen!

This kind of article is long overdue. I find our harping on ethnic identity shows a certain level of short-sightedness. Ethnic identity may be important, but in our increasingly internationa/global context, we would do well to stick with ``Pakistani`` as a general identity instead of whining about how we`re `actually` something else. It shows a distinct lack of self-respect when people leap at the opportunity to establish that, although they happen to be born on or associated with this chunk of land called `Pakistan`, they`re either really from somewhere else or have had this identity forced on them against their will. The only thing they manage to communicate is that they`re ashamed to be associated with Pakistan at all. What a waste of effort.

#33 by sameerJB

“The best way to stop Punjabi domination and expansion beyond normal level is to make them more proud of Punjabi identity. Otherwise Punjabis with one leg each in two different boats would like to peddle both boats.”

I totally, 100% and beyond any doubt-DON’T agree with you here.

My simple argument would be to say that the best way to stop the domination would be to democratize the country and you too have alluded to it. But the more prudent way would be to just follow the 1973 constitution.
1973 constitution though short on fulfilling all small provinces needs, still provides the best agreed upon formula to resolve the domination issue.

If we buy into your argument, I am afraid that will be like handing over the small provinces to the next batch of Punjabi ultra nationalists.

Your arguments about the nationalities and their rights are right on the money but I am afraid, are little bit behind time. The nationalities issue has been thoroughly muddied.
If you read Romair’s post he is talking about 7 or 8 nationalities in Pakistan and if we just follow the linguistic patterns, he is right about it. Though Sindhi, Baloch, Pathans and Punjabis are major ethnic groups within the current geographical boundaries of the provinces, other groups have emerged that also have their own political interests to create havoc in Pakistan.
The dynamics of provincial politics and center-province relations have also changed considerably since 1990.
For instance, The current Baloch is not the same Baloch of 1970s, who fought the army for the national rights. Today’s Baloch may be fighting for unfettered access to the Land-sea routes that have become a lucrative business during and after the afghan war. Most arms into the Middle East, Iran, Afghanistan, and if reports are correct, to Iraq and Central Asia are going thru Balochistan. Some Baloch Sardars are more interested in their percentage than any thing else. We need to look at the new economic realities in the area before giving creditability to Newspaper reports.

National Language issue has no importance now. All provinces have pretty much accepted Urdu as a common language. Being a Sindhi, I know that Sindhi are now more concerned about Jobs and unemployment and political rights in Sindh than the Language itself. Sindhi is now the medium of instruction in schools and there is lots of Sindhi literature out there that has federal funding behind it.

I hope KKKandK and Wajahat would read my previous post again and try to follow the arguments. I am not disparaging Urdu speaking. All I am saying is that a successful group like the Urdu Speaking should not have to worry about petty grievances when there are much bigger issues on the table to fret about. What diff does it make if somebody calls you Mohajir? It is not a disparaging word in any way. If you happened to have lived in Sindh, the disparaging word was “Makkar” and that too has pretty much disappeared from common currency.

I do not understand this cry ``this is my land!`` Which land is mine. Defence or the one that is given away by government to the faujis, to each other, or to the richie riches.

Wake up the land does not belong to any Pakistani. It is up for grabs. it is divided and cruel games played by those with influence.

A country is not land. It is a set of rights, freedoms and guarantees.

When we make a transiton from mere land and dharti that stupid songs have given us we will make progress.

The song Jeevey jeevey Pakistan should be changed to Chahiay chahiay liberty (some one give me the Urdu word) in Pakistan. Do we have a world for liberty? It is not Azadi!

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Punjabi bashing is a reflection of the isolation/deprivation, that the other ethnic groups feel in a federation. It rather assumes the nature of a Conspiracy Theory.
Just consider the following:-
1. The two MQMs have held Karachi hostage for over two decades.
2. At present the hiearchy in the armed forces occupying all sensitive posts is non punjabi.
3. No of killings over water in rural Punjab and none in Sindh reflect how affected Punjab is in agriculture.
4. There has been a constant desertification in Southern Punjab so as to ensure proper supply of water to sindh.
5. Major menial work force in Karachi is Punjabi and Pathan.
6. Punjab is the only province where other ethnic groups are not discrimminated against.
7. Who were the politicians who blocked adult franchise till the sixties? This resulted in a non representative constituent assembly.
I think we need to be more positive. In my recent visit to Karachi, I good get a reasonable measure of this hate. Even the whores are parochial!
Cheerios

Ethnic identities are a positive, if the size of the pie in a country is huge. As is the the case in Canada. In such places, people enjoy each others ethnic and cultural differences.

Ethnic identities are a disaster in countries that are poor. In such places, people use ethnic groupings to isolate other. This can be clearly seen in Pakistan. The dominant identity is Punjab. And the rest of the ethnic identities have started uniting with each other, to ensure they have a safe opposition to Punjab.

The solution is not to get rid of ethnic identities. This is an impossibilty. The solution is to set up a system, where one ethnic identity cannot dominate all others, either locally or nationally in the political and resource level. This is where Pakistan has failed. Culture, songs, history have nothing to do with poltical power, nor should they. If Punjab is divided into smaller geographic groups, it will not change the history, culture or languages of Punjab. The number of Punjabi speakers, their songs etc., will remain the same. However, it will reduce the political power of one entity, over others.

Before people get into this debate, however, it is essential to define where the ethnic boundaries of Pakistan happen to be. I posted the following on a different board, however, it applies here, also:

Most individuals use provinces to define ethnic boudaries. However, provincial boundaries do not match ethnic boundaries in Pakistan. Some of these statistics are dated, by a few decades, but, I believe the ratios still hold.:

- The number of Pathans in NWFP is quite a bit less than what people think. And the largest Pathan city in the country, is actually Karachi, not Peshawar. The most populous district in NWFP is Hindko speaking Hazara. And a majority of people in Peshawar and not Pathans.

Similarly, only 50%, or so, of the population of Baluchistan is actually Baluchi. It has large groups of Pathans. Nearly 30% of the population, or so, is Pathan.

Similarly, Sind has a large Baluchi population. In fact, there maybe be twice as many Sindhi speaking ethnic Baluchis in Sind than the total number of ethnic Baluchis in Baluchistan.

Punjab is an evern bigger hodge-podge. Southern Punjab is actually Sindhi. Multan used to be the capital of Sind. And a big portion of Punjab speaks Sariaki. Sariaki is spoken by almost as many people (10%) in Pakistan as Sindhi (12%). Infact, Sariaki is spoken by about as many people as Pushto (8%) and Baluchi (3%), combined.

Furthermore, the bordering areas of Punjab with Baluchistan, consist of Baluchi tribes. Farooq Leghari is the head of a Baluchi tribe, and is the most influential Baluchi politician in Pakistan. However, his contituency is in Punjab.

Kashmir is another dilema. Pakistani Kashmiris do not speak Kashmiri. They (not counting Northern Areas) speak Punjabi. In fact, they have more in common with Punjabis, than Sariaki speakers of southern Punjab (many of whom want a separate province, from Punjab) have in common with Punjabis.

It would be interesting to see an ethnicity based map or Pakistan to see how it matches with the geographic map..........

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#27 Ijaz_gul

Very true. That is a track to which Urstruly also alluded to must be followed. The troube is, as HP, pointed out that a group of elites (military as well as non-military) uses the sheer numerical stength of Punjabis to exploit Pakistan as well as Punjab. In a society with weak law and order, throwing away Punjabi garb and putting on Pakistani only garb by Punjabi elits actually expands their feifdom, playing field and territory for exploitation. Punjabi masses definitely do not support them and these military generals and elites can`t win even in district council elections. But the centrifugal force (outward from center) created by Punjabi elites using Punjabi numerical strength can not be curtailed without reversing it with centripetal force. The centripetal force, in the highly classed exploitative society like Pakistan is ethnicity. That is what I said in blue color in my last post #33. In order to curtail elites exploitation, they must be made proud of Punjabi identity so that their playing field shrinks on one hand and feeling of commonwealth within ethnic group makes them think twice before exploitation of their own brothers and sisters.

People here do not understand that the cause of exploitation by Punjabi elites is their expanded playing field due to Pakistani identity only. Once they let go of Punjabi language for the sake of Urdu only, Karachi, Balochistan and the rest of Pakistan becomes fair ground for them.

This is not acceptable to Mohajirs because it also limits their playing field to their territory. MQM`s forst slogan was against quota system because of better education among mostly urban Mohajirs. They also want expanded playing field all over Pakistan plus acceptance of their culture as the defining culture of Pakistan. I am for quota system in Pakistan. That is the only way to give opportunities to rural and backward areas. Of curse it should be accompanied with creating more jobs and better education. But without quota system, even within Punjab, Aichison and Kinniard colleges would fill all the jobs leaving aal government college Toba Tek Singh graduates unemployed. That is not fair.

So play the game with the same rules. If they want to decrease Punjabi domination, they must be ready to see their share of power also reduced in Pakistan along with Punjabis becoming proud of Punjabi identity. They dont like Punjabi identity raising its head but also wish to reduce Punjabi domination. The other solution is to reach at the level of western democracies and the first step is sending military back to barracks and Musharraf to face justice system followed by fair elections, democracy, clean government, rule of law,.....

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This is more like a well-composed and well-written essay than an article; it is short on substance and long on brouhaha, rant and whining. At times it feel like voices from the concentration camp, people with their backs against the wall and other times it feels like evangelical with missionary zeal. Even hunter-gatherers have more than one markers of identity. Now our identities without proper context are meaningless. Pakistani identity is national identity and important in national matters. However, day to day life is according to social structure, needs, surroundings and cultures. It is very easy at individual level to switch one culture for another but as a group with group interests, it is next to impossible. Even in the financial capital of the world, New York, various cultural identities and group interests are visible every day and everywhere.

National identity for an individual has much less use than other types of social, vocational, racial, ethnic etc identities. The ethnic and national identities are two different things and overlap only in group interests in multicultural nations. Balochi, Sindhi, Mohajir, Punjabi and Pashtun identities are much more than political and need not be ignored, rejected or suppressed needlessly for an imaginary national identity in non-political matters.
In multicultural countries, it is nationally recognized languages, cultures and ethnic groups. In multicultural but one major culture, often the language and culture of majority ethnic group is more visible and in some cases such nations opt for symbolically one national language and one culture. There is big difference between symbolic nature and aggressively promoting it as the sole national language. Urdu is not the language of majority in Pakistan but for historical reasons it is accepted as sole national language. However its importance between the scale of symbolic and practical has been fluctuating for the last 100 years. Now it is more and more relegated to symbolic nature due to the importance of English on one hand and awareness and promotion of native languages on the other.

If it is taken as the reverent symbol of unity, then it is heart breaking for many to see its position and importance declining. But if its importance is considered nominal and symbolic, then it is no big deal. The first casualty of losing its place as sole national language officially wouldn’t be Pakistan or Pakistani nationalism but madrassahs who have no alternate textbooks source in native languages. That is why they are as vigorous supporter of keeping it national language as some Urdu-Speaking folks.

Ethnic pride has never harmed Pakistan. Pakistan is always harmed when GOP has tried to suppress them. They are much better and desired inclusion than exclusion because they provide an alternate to using religion as a binding force.

Looking back at the Punjabi history, one can not ignore the remarkable direct relationship between taking pride in native/ local identity and peace within. Whenever, Punjabis did not feel for rest of subcontinent, they were invaded from outside but did not fight among themselves and when they tried to take more pride as part of the larger subcontinent, India or Pakistan, they killed each other like crazy. The Punjabi equation is simple: ignore or make your cultural identity secondary and get ready for trouble at home or be local first and only to worry from trouble outside.

Punjabis raising the level of pride in their ethnic identity is better historically for the neighbors, particularly smaller and often fearful. More Punjabis take pride in Punjabi identity, less trouble there will be for Balochis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, and Mohajirs. The pull will be towards controlling Punjab (centripetal force) and not controlling military, Karachi or dominating Pakistani establishment.

I tell all the idiots out there once more. The best way to stop Punjabi domination and expansion beyond normal level is to make them more proud of Punjabi identity. Otherwise Punjabis with one leg each in two different boats would like to peddle both boats.

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Dear Syed,
Ethnicity,subnationalism and all the so called divisive elements are the part and parcel of any modern nation state. Diverse and diffrent communities coexist together: the best examples being the counteries like USA and Canada, who overcame the differences which carried a baggage of lots of violence. Your final conclusion is too idealistic and does not fit the paradigm of the realist world.

What we need, and what I mentioned in my essay on `Civil Society` is to let loose the forces of pluralism and instrumentalism. Individual benefit for the benefit of the state will create a fusion for all disparate elements into oneness. This is what the fuedals, sardars, elites etc fear the most. The answer lies in my conclusion.

SOCIO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AT THE GRASS ROOTS AND CEDING OF SPACE BY THE STATE FOR THE CIVIL SOCIETY TO PERFORM.

Cheerios

HP, Dionyus

These people demonstrate the very perceptual hate that ethnic nationalism inspires. Such Narrow mindedness is core of why Pakistan was for the last 57 years was unable to form a cohesive single nationality , that of a Pakistani.

For some of the Indian contributors here, they are a waste of time as usual, using this Internal Pakistani issue to highlight the greatness of their so called secular society, offcourse we have to forget the Gujrat, Assam, Kashmir to really understand their greatness.

Rozaiba #21

It would be a funny thing, as I think people will draw swords on who should be province No 1. On second thoughts this would not work either :)

Hellbound

Imagine, I an adult of 23 years old being told in US that I am not welcome in Pakistani Students Community simply because I was a Punjabi...so go figure, who is right and who is wrong!

Exactly, go figure how the hate once sowed is reaped in continuous vicious cycles. You faced it, many continue to face it, Who is going to stop it?????

Really try answering this question....

To you all whining about your Mohajir status. My family is Qazilbash and we migrated from Afghanistan Pakistan and never had any problem. We are living in Punjab for several years now. For us Punjab is the one of the most tolerant parts on planet earth.

nikki7777, why did your parents leave such a wonderful place?

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``I would not be wrong to place it around 85 to 90% - partly because almost the entire Mohajir population is urban.``

A hollow comparison. That is like saying Indians are so much more educated in US because the Indian population is better educated here. The Mohajirs were basically Salariat and land holders of UP and Bihar, the upper crust. Compare Punjabi Mussalmaans to the Muslims of UP and Bihar to compare the right levels.

Also, I don`t know about other Indians but your hatred for Punabis seems to be undiscriminatory. You are not saying Pakistani establishment or Military or some such. You keep saying Punjabi this and that where even people like Ana are being accused of bigotry. Well, why do you object to people reacting in the same way then. Heck I am not even Pakistani and don`t give a shit about how u manage your internal affairs but if u keep cursing out Punjabi culture etc then u will get a response.

You seem to have some kind of superiority complex.Better then Hindus, Better then Punjabis etc. U better realize that time of Nawabshahi and Mughals is gone. Jiski laathi uski bhains. In India it is Hindus and in Pakistan it is Punjabi Mussulmaans.

the hindu,sikhs they all got assimilated hon

however when you have dark skinned Urdu speakers in a sindhi province theyre going to stick out now wont they making it easier to be discriminated against?but thats out of context because pak is just pure evil...
dont give me the bull that oh yes in mother india even an extra terrestrial life form will not have ``muhajir`` issues... :)

Good piece to put up on around the Independence Day. We cannot ignore the fact that the traditional forms of identities - religious, cultural, ethnic - continue to be an ugly problem emerging from the lack of State`s political development.

``We should rename the provinces with digits... ``
:)

Good piece to put up on around the Independence Day. We cannot ignore the fact that the traditional forms of identities - religious, cultural, ethnic - continue to be an ugly problem emerging from the lack of State`s political development.

``We should rename the provinces with digits... ``
:)

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Did somebody say poetic justice?? Reap what you have sown?? Sweet Irony?? Gawd, so many cliches can be used here.

I wonder - how come the refugees who had to flee the otherway i.e. the hindu,sikh refugees in India face no such ``muhajir`` type issues? .... Or do they?

whine whine whine - please stop

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HP:Amen! ( it seems that I am hooked on Amen today, but some of you guys have brought this about)

More Muhajir cry babies feeling sorry for their precious and delicate little selves. Punjabis who migrated from villages 1 yard on the other side of border are still known to other Punjabis as `Muhajirs`. So what?


Good grief, you people are pathetic!

I am afraid this is nothing more than a childish rant. Urdu speaking have lived in Sindh only 57 years and it will take them time to assimilate in the local culture. Like in the US, we still have Black or African American, Italian American or Polish American and what not. The irony is that the original owners of this land are called “Indian American”.

One main reason that mohajirs have not been assimilated in the Sindhi society is their sheer numbers. Most of them also settled in cities where local Sindhi population dwindled considerably after Sindhi Hindu left.

In Sindh, the Hindus were always called “Vanias” knowing fully well that nothing can be more Sindhi than the Sindhi Hindus themselves. After all they were in Sindh before Mohd Bin Qasim got there. Baloch are still Baloch in Sindh and to some extent they are as many in numbers as the so called Dravidian Sindhi are. African Sindhis are still known as Shedi in Sindh. The Pathans in Shikarpur are still known as Afgahns, and they probably don`t know a word of pushto or farsi anymore.

The Urdu Speaking or Mohajir unfortunately suffer from narcissism. They have assumed that Mohajir is some sort of a derogatory term. It is not. They are also not better than the Sindhis or any other ethnic group that lives in Sindh and there are plenty.

Sindhi despite many provocations and being looked down upon by the “more civilized” in “Lalo Khet” and “Golimar” by and large have maintained a very civilized attitude towards Urdu speaking barring a few incidents in the cities.


Sindh is the most ethnically diverse province in Pakistan. You can be proud of your ethnicity without being arrogant or continue to complain about unsubstantiated hints and allegations.

Every Pakistani is equal and Mohajir or Punjabis have no monopoly over Pakistan.

hellbound

according to government issued report, that was published sometimes in late 1996 the number of people who died in urban sindh carnage since 1986 was placed at 18,000. These are the total number of people who died in different ethnic cleansing episode by different ethnicities living in Karachi; it includes those who died while clashing with police, and also the law enforcement officials. In my opinion, the way I have witnessed the civil war in Karachi, this number should be somewhere near 40,000. Several mass exodus happened during that time where thousands of people migrated to north (of country) for their safety. Through my appartments balcony in Gulshan-e-Iqbal, I had seen hundereds of trucks everyday carrying peoples houshold stuff, passing through Rashid Minhas Road, whenever there was relaxation in curfew in troubled areas like Drigh Colony, Model Colony, Malir, Landhi and Korangi, going to safer areas or just getting out of the city through Sohrab Goth. It was the worst of times in Pakistan`s history when Pakistan Army was again playing East Pakistan with us. During the Benazir operation against Mohajirs in 1991-92 an estimated 1200-1600 people died at the hands of state machinery. This was the worst violation of constitutional protection that people of Paksitan have from the state machinery. Unfortunately, it occured during the time of a politically ellected government. Pkaistan Army has started playing its third East Pakistan now in baluchistan and NWFP simultaneously. A common Paksitani is still anti-pathic towards his fellow citizen. What does he care as long as ``they`` is dying. Tommorrow, when army will start playing its east paksitan with you, then ``they`` will be antipathic as well. What goes around comes around.

U mention Operation Clean Up Wajahat, remember a odd dozen of laborers form Manshera, or a brother of an army officer, or a number of other ppl who were killed once it was established that they were either Punjabis or establishmentwallahs... so don`t give me that crap about innocent ppl getting killed. Period.

You tell me of your school days in the eighties when you first discovered that you were not mainstream Paki...imagine, I an adult of 23 years old being told in US that I am not welcome in Pakistani Students Community simply because I was a Punjabi...so go figure, who is right and who is wrong!

Hellbound



Again, it is amazing how people miss the point one is trying to make. The very thing that I am trying to counter in this article, hellbound is arguing about. Throughout this article, I never for a moment refered to any anti Punjabi rhetoric. Infact the very point I am trying to defeat is the point hellbound wants to have a debate on. Sorry mate, I dont recognise your vitriolic views on history. Everyone who migrated to Pakistan and those who migrated to India had a terrible time.



Operation Clean Up, killed a lot of innocent people along with culprits, we lived through it where as you read it in the paper, so please save your breath.

#5 kkkandk

Thanks for you views, but I hope you meant ``true feelings of all Pakistanis, who have been ethnically labeled as Muhajirs`` . Just an observation :)

#4 & #3

I guess no Interact board is complete without some Indian`s ridiculing the actual meaning of the article. Whatever your interpretations of this piece is, you have to remember that in writing what I write, I keep reminding the readers that I am a Pakistani. I dont want to return to anywhere, I dont know anything else than Pakistan. I am not one of those Post Psuedo intellectuals debating about why Pakistan was created, I dont carry such delusions.

For me Pakistan is my home, my reality...and thats it.

I appreciate the historic bitterness that some Indians may feel around this statement, but thats the beauty of living in the present and not in the past.

I do not think that our miseries are because of our identities but only because of the social injustice. And cause for the injustice is a total disrespect for the rights and feelings of your fellow human being. In the context of Pakistan, there is a social class, the upper class, whose corruption and antipathy towards fellow human beings has reached to a mind boggling level. As in any society, the burden of responsibility for a system of social justice and a system of law and justice always lies with the powerful class in the society because they have the resources, power, and opportunity. Whereas the lower classes in society are powerless and look towards the upper class. But the antipathy of upper class can only go on far and so long and then the Bastille Day comes along with guillotines. In Pakistan, the biggest perpetrator of social injustice is the military which considers itself above every law and enforces its will through guns, gallowes, and jails. As military rapes the constitution, the very hope of the lower classes for social justice dies with it - constitution was not just a peice of paper for them, it was an instrument of hope and it was an acknowledgement by the powerful that weak also had a stake in the system. Does oppression has an identity? Sometimes, yes. But most of the time there is not. Take for example, Indian oppressed Kashmir where identity of oppressor is very well defined but what about people like shiekh abdullah and his progeny who has benefitted immensely by siding with oppressors. What about Iyad Allawis, Parvez Musharafs, Hamid karzais what is their identity? They have an identity too. They have an identity of an oppressor. Is it in their power to establish a system of social justice and give rights to the dispossessed and disenfranchaised. Of course they have the power - because they are the one who forfieted it in the first place.

[I was then informed that as a member of the Urdu Speaking community whose great grandparents migrated from India, I will for the rest of my natural life, even whilst being born in Pakistan, raised in Pakistan and thoroughly a Pakistani, will be referred to as a Muhajir]

That is a chip u guys carry on ur shoulders, there were more Punjabi mohajirs then there ever be UP CP wallahs, and they are still called mohajirs, but that does not inhibits their desire to be a mainstream Pakistani..u need to resolve that issue as a `nation` as u put it

[I have analysed this problem to an extent for myself. I am indeed proud of my heritage and the legacy of the Hindustani Muslim identity]

What identity are you talking about, Sir. We as a community lost the largest number of ppl on both sides of the fence, we lost in terms of money, land, pride, and most of all identity, yet you speak of identity, you had none, most of you claim to be the decendants of Turks, Arabs, Afghans and so on and so forth, yet for argument`s sake you unite under one umbrella provided to you by Pir Sahib to rally around the mohajir cause, not knowing that most of you who finally settled in Karachi, were our guests in Lahore for over two years before Liaquat Ali Khan, discovered Karachi as your natural habitat.

[whilst thousands of his Muhajir recruits to the APMSO and the MQM, were murdered by the Pak Army]

Sir, with all due respect, can you seriously mean what you said, after all what we know?

[In any case, no failure will stop me to state that I am not a Muhajir or a refugee]

The only sensible thing you said in your article-Amen!

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Very well written piece

`` I was then informed that as a member of the Urdu Speaking community whose great grandparents migrated from India, I will for the rest of my natural life, even whilst being born in Pakistan, raised in Pakistan and thoroughly a Pakistani, will be referred to as a Muhajir.``

Punjabis in Delhi still call themselves Refugees. It is a matter of pride and honor to be a Refugee in Delhi.