Refugee for Life?

You don`t sound like NIKKI. You sound more like sandle wearing NIKKA.

SOCIO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AT THE GRASS ROOTS AND CEDING OF SPACE BY THE STATE FOR THE CIVIL SOCIETY TO PERFORM.

Dear Ijaz

I couldnt agree with you more on this. Imagine political parties based on ideaology and not ethnic lines, The PPP(Sindh Primarily), PML ( Punjab), MQM (Karachi) rather than selling us the natinalistic empowerment they should be considering ideaological issues. Liberal, Progressive, Educationalist. I know its a utopia, but for me and my resolution to only be a Pakistani means that my kids will hopefully inherit that and until the social maelstorm and reality of this nationalistic ethnic divide is lambasted upon them, they will be only Pakistanis.

I am amazed how quickly we pakistanis can retract back to the same old arguments about how righteous our ethnic nationality is. I mean the point I am trying to make is that right at the beggining, like everything else, we lost the plot on this ethnic nationality issue. I understand that the other option to this is merely an unrealistic utopia, but wasnt Pakistan suppose to be the first state of its kind. A state which was carved out for the Muslims of India, not Punjabis of Western Punjab or Balochis or Pathans or UP Muslims. How could we than create such strong divisions so quick and make it part and parcel of our social economic setup. Every govt , military job requires your domicile area, isnt this ethnic profiling of sorts. I mean the point is whats wrong with only being a Pakistani?????

Without indulging in pro or anti Punajabi rhetoric can you try answering the above question.

Romair I agree 100%.
Most of these posts are peashooters fired from the hip. The ethnic issue is not as precarious as cited by these friends. Most provinces less NWFP have become homogenius. Far flung areas of Balochistan with development will also improve.
Cheerios

kkk #30 ``... just brute force or might is right. You are sounding more and more like a Jat. ``

Brute force and violence is the main method of all warrior races. But that might be hard for you to understand because it was always ``Love making`` that was the main `weapon` in the Rajasthani armoury...hahahahahahaha...

Cheer up fellas!!

What is this fuss about Urdu speaking Punjus nursing a grudge against Urdu speaking UPites and Biharis... Am I missing something??

BTW, what is the script of Punjabi people in Pakistan (this is under the assumption that some of them are literate and there is a written form of Punjabi where the script is not Gurumukhi)

Wajahat,

You are right, regardless of where we came from or which province we are from we are all Pakistani, and really thats all that should matter.

Although i do like to laugh at KHI vallahs by taking the piss out of them about their paan spitting habits etc it is all in jest (as many of the KHI vallahs take the piss out of Punjabis) i could never really imagine a Pakistan without any of its current ethnic groups.

Regards Urdu, all ppl in Pak have pretty much accepted this as national lingo - if they cannot speak it they at least understand it. To most ppl in Pak (those whose mother tongue is not Urdu) Urdu would make more sense and is easier and more intuitive to understand than English.

Regards the Punjabi bashing, i wish the non Punjabi ppl in Pak would realise that the average Punjabi is just as oppressed/discriminated/used and abused/controlled etc by the Punjabi elites as the rest of the country is.

PS our Sadar is from KHI and our soon to be new Vazeer-i-Aazam is also from KHI, i hope they can bring some kind of cohesiveness to our country. Ameen!

This kind of article is long overdue. I find our harping on ethnic identity shows a certain level of short-sightedness. Ethnic identity may be important, but in our increasingly internationa/global context, we would do well to stick with ``Pakistani`` as a general identity instead of whining about how we`re `actually` something else. It shows a distinct lack of self-respect when people leap at the opportunity to establish that, although they happen to be born on or associated with this chunk of land called `Pakistan`, they`re either really from somewhere else or have had this identity forced on them against their will. The only thing they manage to communicate is that they`re ashamed to be associated with Pakistan at all. What a waste of effort.

#33 by sameerJB

“The best way to stop Punjabi domination and expansion beyond normal level is to make them more proud of Punjabi identity. Otherwise Punjabis with one leg each in two different boats would like to peddle both boats.”

I totally, 100% and beyond any doubt-DON’T agree with you here.

My simple argument would be to say that the best way to stop the domination would be to democratize the country and you too have alluded to it. But the more prudent way would be to just follow the 1973 constitution.
1973 constitution though short on fulfilling all small provinces needs, still provides the best agreed upon formula to resolve the domination issue.

If we buy into your argument, I am afraid that will be like handing over the small provinces to the next batch of Punjabi ultra nationalists.

Your arguments about the nationalities and their rights are right on the money but I am afraid, are little bit behind time. The nationalities issue has been thoroughly muddied.
If you read Romair’s post he is talking about 7 or 8 nationalities in Pakistan and if we just follow the linguistic patterns, he is right about it. Though Sindhi, Baloch, Pathans and Punjabis are major ethnic groups within the current geographical boundaries of the provinces, other groups have emerged that also have their own political interests to create havoc in Pakistan.
The dynamics of provincial politics and center-province relations have also changed considerably since 1990.
For instance, The current Baloch is not the same Baloch of 1970s, who fought the army for the national rights. Today’s Baloch may be fighting for unfettered access to the Land-sea routes that have become a lucrative business during and after the afghan war. Most arms into the Middle East, Iran, Afghanistan, and if reports are correct, to Iraq and Central Asia are going thru Balochistan. Some Baloch Sardars are more interested in their percentage than any thing else. We need to look at the new economic realities in the area before giving creditability to Newspaper reports.

National Language issue has no importance now. All provinces have pretty much accepted Urdu as a common language. Being a Sindhi, I know that Sindhi are now more concerned about Jobs and unemployment and political rights in Sindh than the Language itself. Sindhi is now the medium of instruction in schools and there is lots of Sindhi literature out there that has federal funding behind it.

I hope KKKandK and Wajahat would read my previous post again and try to follow the arguments. I am not disparaging Urdu speaking. All I am saying is that a successful group like the Urdu Speaking should not have to worry about petty grievances when there are much bigger issues on the table to fret about. What diff does it make if somebody calls you Mohajir? It is not a disparaging word in any way. If you happened to have lived in Sindh, the disparaging word was “Makkar” and that too has pretty much disappeared from common currency.

I do not understand this cry ``this is my land!`` Which land is mine. Defence or the one that is given away by government to the faujis, to each other, or to the richie riches.

Wake up the land does not belong to any Pakistani. It is up for grabs. it is divided and cruel games played by those with influence.

A country is not land. It is a set of rights, freedoms and guarantees.

When we make a transiton from mere land and dharti that stupid songs have given us we will make progress.

The song Jeevey jeevey Pakistan should be changed to Chahiay chahiay liberty (some one give me the Urdu word) in Pakistan. Do we have a world for liberty? It is not Azadi!

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Punjabi bashing is a reflection of the isolation/deprivation, that the other ethnic groups feel in a federation. It rather assumes the nature of a Conspiracy Theory.
Just consider the following:-
1. The two MQMs have held Karachi hostage for over two decades.
2. At present the hiearchy in the armed forces occupying all sensitive posts is non punjabi.
3. No of killings over water in rural Punjab and none in Sindh reflect how affected Punjab is in agriculture.
4. There has been a constant desertification in Southern Punjab so as to ensure proper supply of water to sindh.
5. Major menial work force in Karachi is Punjabi and Pathan.
6. Punjab is the only province where other ethnic groups are not discrimminated against.
7. Who were the politicians who blocked adult franchise till the sixties? This resulted in a non representative constituent assembly.
I think we need to be more positive. In my recent visit to Karachi, I good get a reasonable measure of this hate. Even the whores are parochial!
Cheerios

Ethnic identities are a positive, if the size of the pie in a country is huge. As is the the case in Canada. In such places, people enjoy each others ethnic and cultural differences.

Ethnic identities are a disaster in countries that are poor. In such places, people use ethnic groupings to isolate other. This can be clearly seen in Pakistan. The dominant identity is Punjab. And the rest of the ethnic identities have started uniting with each other, to ensure they have a safe opposition to Punjab.

The solution is not to get rid of ethnic identities. This is an impossibilty. The solution is to set up a system, where one ethnic identity cannot dominate all others, either locally or nationally in the political and resource level. This is where Pakistan has failed. Culture, songs, history have nothing to do with poltical power, nor should they. If Punjab is divided into smaller geographic groups, it will not change the history, culture or languages of Punjab. The number of Punjabi speakers, their songs etc., will remain the same. However, it will reduce the political power of one entity, over others.

Before people get into this debate, however, it is essential to define where the ethnic boundaries of Pakistan happen to be. I posted the following on a different board, however, it applies here, also:

Most individuals use provinces to define ethnic boudaries. However, provincial boundaries do not match ethnic boundaries in Pakistan. Some of these statistics are dated, by a few decades, but, I believe the ratios still hold.:

- The number of Pathans in NWFP is quite a bit less than what people think. And the largest Pathan city in the country, is actually Karachi, not Peshawar. The most populous district in NWFP is Hindko speaking Hazara. And a majority of people in Peshawar and not Pathans.

Similarly, only 50%, or so, of the population of Baluchistan is actually Baluchi. It has large groups of Pathans. Nearly 30% of the population, or so, is Pathan.

Similarly, Sind has a large Baluchi population. In fact, there maybe be twice as many Sindhi speaking ethnic Baluchis in Sind than the total number of ethnic Baluchis in Baluchistan.

Punjab is an evern bigger hodge-podge. Southern Punjab is actually Sindhi. Multan used to be the capital of Sind. And a big portion of Punjab speaks Sariaki. Sariaki is spoken by almost as many people (10%) in Pakistan as Sindhi (12%). Infact, Sariaki is spoken by about as many people as Pushto (8%) and Baluchi (3%), combined.

Furthermore, the bordering areas of Punjab with Baluchistan, consist of Baluchi tribes. Farooq Leghari is the head of a Baluchi tribe, and is the most influential Baluchi politician in Pakistan. However, his contituency is in Punjab.

Kashmir is another dilema. Pakistani Kashmiris do not speak Kashmiri. They (not counting Northern Areas) speak Punjabi. In fact, they have more in common with Punjabis, than Sariaki speakers of southern Punjab (many of whom want a separate province, from Punjab) have in common with Punjabis.

It would be interesting to see an ethnicity based map or Pakistan to see how it matches with the geographic map..........

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