The Door To The Barracks

faruk #66
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This is not true, all state allocations are proportional to the revenue generated. That is why the poor states have a per capita income of about two third the rich states. The central expenditure on defense, space etc. too is proportional. The army has quotas for regional recruitment. So we have proportional representation in the army too.
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If this is so, then why all the hue and cry re Punjab. Is it because it has disproportioanately most military assets? One exercise might be interesting. If the Generals play such a big role and if the military is truly representative of all segments, does it hold for the upper ranks also?

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No! there is only one language on the currency urdu. Regional identities are discouraged.
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This is a mistake and also one commited by Sri Lanka (which was way ahead of most countries in Asia in the 1950s). Singapore is a small citystate but they have found an overt strategy of being multiethnic in everything to be of great value to social cohesion. Switzerland is another example. Of course one language can play a predominant role (it is English in Singapore as it is in India, with Hindi running second). Similarly small gestures like having all the main languages on train station name posts are implemented and having a choice of languages as second language is supported. In India all the languages are represented in the currency; this was a masterstroke. The fact is that people have their regional and linguistic identities. One cannot be idealistic and say that religion (islam) or religious philosophy (hinduism) will be the only binding force. In India, even Hindi (equivalent of Urdu) could not be imposed in many regions. As it turned out, the exposure to English has proved very valuable in the current context.

A multiethnic state like Yugoslavia was held together by communist ideology. Once that went, everything splintered. Without Saddam, and now the USA, Iraq would also go in that direction. Islam seems to be an all-encompassing ideology, like communism. By not paying due regards to regional identities, the state is not frittering away cultural resources. There has to be a balance between pan-regional and regional identities. Languages and cultures have developed over centuries. It is foolish to ignore all that and kill that within one or two generations.

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Pakistani’s attach a lot of importance to being not Indian. What you are suggesting is that Pakistan becomes an image of India. I don’t think that would be acceptable to Pakistanis.
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I think having one language and emphasizing religion is perfectly possible in the case of Bangladesh. It is highly possible for Bangladesh to enshrine Islam in their constitution far more succesfully than Pakistan could (even though here, they do have some non-muslims, what is left at any rate and so this step would be ill-advised). However I think that Pakistan is more diverse than Bangladesh; this is why one cannot ignore regional culture and hope religion will be a unifying force.

Frankly India is what it is as a response to nation building attempts in a multi-ethnic, multi-linguistic and multi-religious setup. Pakistan is also multi-ethnic and multi-linguistic and so it would make sense to try what has worked and avoid what did not. Similarly India should also learn from other countries (as it has in the context of economic policies in china); this is a slow process but no one argues about this anymore. The Southeast asian nations are very pragmatic.. they have to be accomodating to China increasingly for obvious reasons. I dont think Nation states are static.. their composition and identities are ever-changing.

Pakistan has really no choice but to be indianized to some extent. The Indian market vastly dwarfs the Pakistan market. The best that Pakistan offers (entertainers, sportstars, products) find a ready market in India and these producers will modify their offerings to suit the marketplace (e.g., using more hindi words in songs etc.). This is common sense. Wasn`t it some japanese or korean cellphone maker that made a customized feature for the daily prayers for muslims? So this is what globalization is about. To be flexible and accomodate customer tastes. In so doing, you change attitudes and introduce the same products to the local marketplace as well.

Trying to forcefeed outdated concepts like Islam into the nervous system of a modern nation is a recipe for disaster. Why introduce constraints that reduce efficiency and create complications? That it seems to work in some countries like Saudi Arabia is illusory (oil wealth, enormous oppression). Keep religion in its place as a personal matter between each citizen and his God. Honestly I dont see any other way.

ferozK:

Why Bangladesh seems to be on the right path and Pakistan is not? Is there anything to be learned from Bangladesh experience about governance? Before mullah brigade jumps over me, I am not at all suggesting at all that a significant (15-17 percent) Hindu minority has anything to do with it. In fact, it has nothing to do with Bangladesh experience.

Re: Wrapster # 64
“Now the bimaru states suck up a lot in resources but somehow the equation has been worked out so that it is not intolerable for the performing states. And there is no chance of such an organized thuggery like the military seems to be in pakistan, running chemical plants!”

This is not true, all state allocations are proportional to the revenue generated. That is why the poor states have a per capita income of about two third the rich states. The central expenditure on defense, space etc. too is proportional. The army has quotas for regional recruitment. So we have proportional representation in the army too.

“Since Pakistan`s identity is multiregional, it should reflect that in the national symbols. Does the national currency display all the languages/region?”

No! there is only one language on the currency urdu. Regional identities are discouraged.

“Why not make all the major languages official and promote them? Emphasize the unity in diversity idea. Try to get the definition of who a muslim is out of the constitution (e.g., branding ahmedis as non-muslims); make it more flexible. Since there will be major trade with India in the future it makes sense to get acquainted with Indian languages and scripts. So while it is true that religion was the reason that the nation was formed in the first place, it doesnt need to have that role now. bottomline is that there is much Pakistan has to learn from India”

Pakistani’s attach a lot of importance to being not Indian. What you are suggesting is that Pakistan becomes an image of India. I don’t think that would be acceptable to Pakistanis.

“So my own view is that increased engagement with India is a precondition for reform in the pakistani system; it may not be enough as there are important internal factors but it could be a help. As long as the kashmir issue festers, the longer things stay the way they are.”

There is a group of people who have together ruled Pakistan since its birth, they are referred to as the establishment. They owe their privileged position to the Kashmir issue and the India bogey. They will prevent any solution of the Kashmir problem and will oppose any change in status quo as Indianization.


Regards,

Faruk

#64 by warpster
//...Try to get the definition of who a muslim is out of the constitution (e.g., branding ahmedis as non-muslims)...//

That`ll happen when he!! freezes over. See - Pakis are pakis because of their obsession with such ideologies .... who is a muslim and who is not - that is a never-ending social discourse for them.

They have to flog that dead horse over and over again - that`s an essential intellectual tradition. Not just for pakis - of many other muslim communities. Every so often we would see articles in chowk and paki newpapers with titles such as ``Who is a true muslim woman`` , ``Who is a true muslim``, ``what is true Islam`` .... etc .... etc.

You take that tradition out of their system - you basically kill their raison-d-etre. Now why would they do that??

I have found Urstruly`s and Romair`s pieces to be quite informative and at the same time, one cannot help being pessimistic given the situation.

I agree that there is probably a tacit understanding among all the power-brokers who are probably related to each other and have all kinds of complex connections. Hell, I`d be cheering too if I lived in a cantonment and my bread and butter depended on the military.

The point is that this is a seemingly stable system and it is pretty hard to rock the boat.

In India, the civil service bureaucrats are the most powerful (much more so than the military) and they take orders from the politicians. The system is such they are often posted to regions other than their home state. So this kind of cross fertilisation should have good effects (instead of inbreeding). So the senior level bureaucrats in public sector services are multiregional. While there was this feeling of Punjabi/Madrasi etc.. earlier this is not such a big thing any more , I gather. So there is this true indian identity which transcends region. Now the bimaru states suck up a lot in resources but somehow the equation has been worked out so that it is not intolerable for the performing states. And there is no chance of such an organized thuggery like the military seems to be in pakistan, running chemical plants!

So there are clearly challenges which may become acute but in India they seem to come up with some patchwork solution (split a state, cobble a treaty). All this wont be possible without democracy and judiciary and respect for constitution. Also the increasing dominance of the private sector has made them important power players in their own right. They are global and are sensitive to those constraints; they do a good job of conveying their concerns to the politicians (the new AP minister prematurely announced that some huge plant was going to be built in his state. not too sure if the Reliance boss was too happy with this). Of late NGOs and other social movements of a non-political nature are also a major force in looking at issues from a non-partisan view. Basically democracy helps more participation in the system, even of nonpolitical nature.

Responding to Faruk #58

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Since Pakistan`s identity is multiregional, it should reflect that in the national symbols. Does the national currency display all the languages/region? Why not make all the major languages official and promote them? Emphasize the unity in diversity idea. Try to get the definition of who a muslim is out of the constitution (e.g., branding ahmedis as non-muslims); make it more flexible. Since there will be major trade with India in the future it makes sense to get acquainted with Indian languages and scripts. So while it is true that religion was the reason that the nation was formed in the first place, it doesnt need to have that role now. bottomline is that there is much Pakistan has to learn from India. So my own view is that increased engagement with India is a precondition for reform in the pakistani system; it may not be enough as there are important internal factors but it could be a help. As long as the kashmir issue festers, the longer things stay the way they are.

#46 by ferozk

“cooperation with the army is better than confrontation, then would it not be better to formalize such an arrangement within Pakistani politics?” –Ferozk

I hope you are not suggesting that both parties sit down and sign on some dotted lines:)

Eventually they would get to some resolution and that will be part of the constitution. I suggest that you take a careful look at the struggle for constitution starting from 1970 and changes in the constitution by both civilians and the army from 1973 onward to get a feel of what give and take has taken place between the two parties. You will see that the civilians are always trying to cooperate with the army.
Here is my take-

The gut feeling of politicians in Pakistan is to work with the army and share power as civilian just don’t have enough muscle to force the army. This cooperation issue was not a factor before the 1970 elections. The central dispute between the army and Mujib was the role of the army in Pakistan. The army was rightfully fearful that with the moving of the capital to Dacca, it will lose the influence to control the country. Mujib felt that by becoming a prime minister in Islamabad, he would always be under the army pressure and with Punjabi bureaucracy and Punjabi army, he did not see any hope for Bengalis in Islamabad. The fear of backlash led both parties to armed conflict instead of a mutual political agreement as proposed in the 6 points by Mujib.

ZAB had to also deal with this issue immediately after he took over. ZAB came to power thru a coup and not on the strength of his political power. He also was the first civilian in Pakistan to actually engineer another coup that brought Gen. Tikka Khan by removing Gen. Gul Hassan. ZAB was aware that he can only remain in power until the army is behind him. As soon as Gen. Tikka Khan retired, the wind switched direction and soon ZAB was on the street and later on gallows.

This quick background would help to understand that the politicians know that they have to work with the army but the issue is: On whose terms?

1. Mujib tried to work with the army on his terms. The army favored the separation and refused Mujib’s terms for sharing power.
2. ZAB presented the second solution when he tired to plant his own man as the COAS and he also added death clause in the constitution to deter ambition. The army still finds that clause an albatross.
Now ZAB and Mujib were the most powerful politicians of Pakistan. One was given a country and the other was executed.
3. NS attempted the Bhutto solution again when he first removed Karamat and in 1999 when he attempted to remove Musharaf. He also amended constitution to change the rules on the army.

Neither NS nor ZAB ever tried to wound or structurally damage the army even though there were at least two good opportunities to do that. They attempted to find a workable solution.
Every time politicians attempt to make the rules fair, the army attempts to change them in its favor. The army is now so fearful of the politicians that it finds it hard to work with a benign politician like Jamali and would rather have a non political person at the most political position in Pakistan.
The army seeks obedience and not cooperation and that is the crux of the matter.
Until the army is ready for the cooperation, the confrontation between the two will continue despite attempts by the civilians to find a workable solution.

I owe you reply on smaller province nationalism and the extra constitution solution.

re: urstruly # 61

I will not deny that there is a visible industrial-military complex in Pakistan and Punjab benefits from this, but also, please, consider the the following facts. The province was used by the British as recruiting depot for their imperialism in South Asia and specially for the punitive military raids into the north-west frontier province. The militarization of Punjab as canttoment of the British army was a well established fact by the time of 1947. Secondly, given that fact, it was logical that the further development of the military-industrial infrastructure in Pakistan would take place here; improving upon the already existing infrastructure.

Your contention is true to an extent, but the army is no longer Punjabi as it once was and there is a more national representation in it, but as far as regards the officer corps and more specically the corps commanders, that seems to tilt towards Punjab due to the deployment of Pakistani army`s two strike corps. Since the strike corps at Mangla is the traditional gateway to the stars of COAS and given the political nature of military professionalism in Pakistan, there is bound to be a political interest as the corps commander Mangla gets the chance to interact with the provincial politics of Punjab and its leaders.

To return to your comments, I can understand your caution of devolving power and at the idea of breaking the provinces into smaller halves. If what you say is true, then the key is not so much as to split the provinces or devolve power, but to re-equalize the balance of the military-industrial complex throughout Pakistan instead of its being monopolized within Punjab. As I mentioned earlier, despite the academic nature of the article`s proposal, I am more interested in a constitutional mode, which limits the power of Punjab in the federation and regardless of what an average Punabi might wish to believe, I am certain that such a constitutional arrangement can be framed.

However, I do admit my fault of being inarticulate. Ideally, and this is major departure for me from my usual realpolitik, what I am trying to word and should have worded more clearly in the article, is a revolt of the conscience. Only a revolt of conscience will erase the menace of status quo from Pakistani politics and only a revolt of conscience will help to end our problems of political lotacracy and punish our Quislings who cooperate with the army. However, I am not foolish enough to hold my breath and wait for this miracle to happen, because in the words of SameerJB, we lack the requisite ethics and morality in our political life to achive this aim.

I honestly believe in the effacy of political dialogue over confrontational politics, because I do not see the usefulness of creating the mythology of political martyrs in Pakistani politics as a solution to our problems. There can be no jihad, or a confrontation within Pakistani politics nor can such a concept be even tolerated, because end lies in a political compromise, which satisfies all the political actors and parties in Pakistan national affairs. In this sense, a constitutional compromise can be feasible, because in the end, the viability of Pakistan, as a nation, will reside in its laws and the political institutions created by those laws and not in the intentional politics of personal insecurities. Nations and the strenght of nations are reflective in the laws, which they create to govern themselves and nations, which govern themselves better than others, are planted thick with human laws. Humanity creates the laws not only to serve God, within the tangled web of its minds, but it creates the laws to balance the nature of humanity itself and to prevent the avarice, of the human nature, from overpowering the alturistic character of the humanity.

In this sense, I am against the idea of making Punjab the martyr of Pakistan and the powers of Punjab can be chortled and controlled, as can the power and the influence of the military through a constitutional law. Devolving power might increase the powers of Islamabad, but that is exactly why, I had suggested a need to re-examine the nature of the federation itself and if that means to review the import of the constitution itself, then it should be reviewed. Constitutional law, any any other law, which is the creation of a human mind is by the nature of the human character itself flawed and the essence of the law lies not in its immutibility or the tradition of its precedents as much as in its continued evolution with the changing mores of the human experience.

Taking your own analysis as a starting point, which is an excellent attempt in dissolving the fog of confusion and locating the center of gravity of political power in Pakistan, in the nexus of a political military-industrial (Punjab-military) relation, the solution becomes more focused. The question then is; how to constitutionally limit this power within the federation and ensure its equal share, with the other provinces? Once a modicum of political understanding is realized over this question, the issues of social justice et al will be solved. However, before we even get to that stage, where a critical mass can be generated, we have to deal with the problem of a political judicary in Pakistan and seperate it from both executive and legislative branches of the govenment. Since everything I have suggested, will be based on the legality of power, the institution, which will oversee this aspect of Pakistani politics, needs to be reformed and made independent and given the power of judical review, much similar to the powers enjoyed by the American Supreme Court.

Ciao

Ferozk & Rozaiba

Class Conspiracy – is what that is called. This is a strange social phenomenon, according to which a group of people has a common interest in maintaining a status quo against other group. This conspiracy is unwritten and unsaid and yet everybody in the group knows what to say and how to act against the other group. In Pakistan there are two groups, one is Punjabi group and other is the non-Punjabi group. There is an unsaid class conspiracy among the Punjabi group to maintain the status quo of military domination whenever it gets a chance. Deep down in his heart every Punjabi is convinced that without this Federation the survival of Punjab is impossible. A Punjabi knows that without an access to sea from Karachi and Gowadar, without the natural gas from Baluchistan (which is practically running the country), without the dams and power from NWFP, and without the water from Azad Kashmir, a land locked Punjab is nothing but a basket case – nothing but another Afghanistan. A Punjabi will die for the Federation but he will not fulfill his obligation towards the Federation. He would rather support a system that exploits and denies the rights of other people in the Federation. He would rather resort to the tactics of class conspiracy. So the question is, why a Punjabi when so dependent on Federation has such a paradoxical attitude. All fingers point to the military. Allow me to explain.

For the year 2003 the province of sind produced a revenue of Rs. 47169 millions whereas Punjab had a revenue of Rs. 94143 millions. Now with a population of 29.9 million of Sindh as compared to 72.6 million of Punjab, the per capita production of Sindh was still greater than that of Punjab although the total revenue of Punjab is greater than that of sindh. Now military takes 80% of this revenue from both of these provinces for its defense expenditures like weapons, training, salaries, pensions, maintenance of cantonments, schooling of their kids, hospitalization of its personnel etc. The 75% of this army is stationed on the East bank of river sindh and also to the North of Sindh i.e. in Punjab. So most of this expenditure is done in Punjab. In addition there are defense installations that are mostly in Punjab. For example, various ordinance factories, Kamra Aircraft manufacturing, and rebuild factories of Taxila employ approximately 300K direct civilian employees. It means 300k families survive because of these manufacturing concerns. Then there are several cantonments, probably 18+ in Punjab alone. These cantonments have to be supported by civilians as teachers, barbers, cleaners, clerks, cantonment offices, banks, schools, buses and what not. On top of that there are fertilizer plants, banks, hospitals, food plants, cargo delivery that army is running for itself. These civilians are on top of those who are directly dependent on uniformed personnel as family members. So a huge segment of Punjabi civilian population has a symbiotic relationship with army. Thus handsome amount of that 80% of the national budget that army eats, indirectly goes into the pockets of Punjabi people. So is there a wonder why whenever military takes over there are processions in support of them and sweetmeat is distributed among the people of Punjab whereas rest of Pakistan stands dumbfounded.

The fact of the matter is that army has expanded its infrastructure to such an extent and it is used to living a life of such a standard that in order to maintain itself it will go to any extreme. It can start a Kargil war for absolutely no reason and justification and it can take over civilian government whenever it feels like it. It can even break country and it can sell its soul to the Big Satan. So is there a wonder why it has treaded on the way of murder of its own people in wana to please its sugar daddy. Tell me the name of one fukking country where receiving debt from another country is celebrated as if someone has just conquered Mount Everest. Its Pakistan. The fact of the matter is that the military is living an extravagant lifestyle using a credit card which is not its. Ultimately Pakistani nation will pay through its nose and ass like we are doing it right now by murdering our neighbors and fellow Muslims. For crying out loud I have seen Vietnamese Generals wearing flip flops who won them a war against a superpower and here we have generals who wear boots that are made from our skins and yet they lay down their weapons in ceremonies that are telecast. Aaakh thooo.

As a partner in this grand conspiracy Punjab of course is again silent because it is getting its morsels. When people in smaller provinces raise such voices like I am raising now, they are brandished as Hindus agents who must be working for RAW and a Punjabi believes it right away without a question because Punjabi understands that a person who is raising such a voice wants half of whole loaf that Punjabi has. Punjabi is mean because he wont even share a quarter of bread with his brother. What Punjabi wont understand is that a time will come when his brother will not only snatch his share of bread with force but will also gouge his eyes. Punjab is killing the Federation. Punjab is ripping our country apart. It is time that Punjab has to stop supporting this evil monster, which is sucking blood from our veins. Time is now.

You gentle men have suggested a breakdown of provinces at division or district level but have you even considered how strong then Center will get with this arrangement. What chances, the province of Bhakkar or Province of Mirpur Khas will stand to stand upto the center. Today, the provices as they are have some guts to stand up to center. But haven’t you noticed that just to save the governments in NWFP and Baluchistan, they had to sell their souls to the fauji shaytans? Please understand that this division of provinces is a military conspiracy and it will definitely act upon it when voices in other provinces will get louder. But read my post again and understand the nature of this beast that even if we divide the provinces further, the prospective provinces that are in current Punjab will have the same clout because military installations are in them. For Punjab it will not make an iota bit diffrence but for smaller provinces it is a matter of life and death.

based on the pakis that i have met (including the techies, cabbies, chappal-kabab flippers) etc, they dont seem to mind military as necessarily bad. indeed, since i met them in the west, they have kind of ``escaped``. i also meet kabuliwalas from peshawar in india selling Silajeet (Hard Rock-Power) in hill stations. Noone cares that much about democracy etc.

cabbies etc consider democracy to be too complex.

techies want easier visas to the us.

kabuliwala us upset with cipla made viagra substistutes.

only on chowk i see folks questioning the military (except romair) as -ve.

so i am very sceptical of the general discourse presented in this article and interacts.

OTOH indians as way too politically obsessed..i mean a bhaiyya cabbie in mumbai gives me a major headache talking about vajpayee and laloo. well at least he is not worried about palestine.

you read SAT madani saheb......:-)

great piece......

Re: wrapster # 55
“The role of islam and islamic amendments makes things more complex. It is a longlasting ripple of TNT. I think if the judiciary finds a creative way to jettison these laws without causing unrest it will one more step in making Pakistan a modern nation in which the separation between the state and personal religion is clear. I thank the Indian lawmakers and judiciary for achieving the separation and not making anything a state religion (horrors)”

How will your separate the state and religion in a country that lot of its citizens think was created in the name of religion ?

Regards,

Faruk

Ferozek: Interesting article. I think it discusses the theoretical side of it quite well. But I am not sure if it hits on the realistic aspects of the whole issue.

One cannot theorize the military back into the barracks. It has to be done by some practical steps. Otherwise it just turns into rhetoric, based on emotional ups and downs.

To analyse the problem pratically, one has to first understand all the characters involved and their motiviations. I am always amazed by the division of the, ``ruling elite`` of Pakistan, into certain groups - military, politicians etc. I have written quite a few replies, pointing out how everyone who has ruled over Pakistan is literally married to each other. PPP, ANP, PML, Army Generals (of pre-Musharraf generation) etc.

So what will putting any one of these groups back into anywhere, do for Pakistan. If one brother is a General, another an MNA, and a third a big businessman, then you need to get rid of all of them. As I have argued before, this whole culture needs to go. All these individuals need to be sidelined. To just say that the politicians or the generals needs to sidelined is wrong. Everyone needs to go. In fact, most of us on Chowk, belong to this category also. So any kind of, ``revolution`` in Pakistan, will invariably target us also.

As an example, Chaudhry Nisar of Nawaz Sharif`s kitchen cabinet, has a brother who is a Lt. General or Brigadier?. Nawaz Sharif (like SameerJB) was a big supporter of Zia-ul-Haq at one time. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto lauched his career under Ayub. Gohar Ayub, Saifullahs, Khattaks, Chaudhrys, Ghulam Ishaq Khans are all in-laws of each oher. And Gen. Ali Kuli, an ex-potential COAS is their cousin.

I have seen the military from the inside. And thus have a much better idea of how things work there than most people on this site. And I am a huge fan of the hawaldars and the Captains. And I have been very critical of the Generals. Much of it is due to my personal experience. Thus my desire to look at practicalities and not rhetoric.

I don`t have time to go into the details, but the main power group in the Pakistan military are the 25 Army Lt. Generals and one COAS. These positions are phenomenonally powerful, and basically run the country, regardless of which kind of govt. is in power. The reason they are so powerful is because they are the only group, which has not allowed itself to be split apart, under the pressure of other organizations; unlike the beurecracy, judiciary, and political parties, which have a strong tendency to turn on their own members.

So based on this, I am not sure how anyone can send them back to the barracks, if they don`t want to go. The only solution is to get rid of these posts all together, which is what I have suggested quite a few times. Based on this I think if someone wants to shake the power structure of Pakistani politics, they need to do the following:

1. Massive land reforms (to kick out the feudals from politics)
2. Split Punjab into three parts (to dilute the hold of Punjab over the country)
3. Reduce the number of General ranks in the Army (Maj and Lt.) from 125 to about 50

All of this, together, will get rid of the powerbrokers in Pakistan (feudals, Army generals, Punjabis). Interestingly, there are only two major parties that seem to have this on their agenda, and they are MQM and MMA............The other big parties, are all on the inside of this powerful group......

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#50 by nasah
//...who will Bell the Cat... and How? ...//

Uncle Sam. The cat is fat because it feeds Uncle`s $$$.

Pakis by themselves can not dislodge the fat cat - They have forefeited that right to choose their own destiny and leaders a long time ago. For too long they have been clutching at the coat-tails of various sugar-daddies ( US, Saudis, Chinese ) ... and currying favours with all sorts of characters .... bin laden, taliban, wahabis, little Kim of N Korea etc etc.

All this for what? Just to gain a upper hand over the wretched hinudoos next door.

And now pakis are crying themselves silly how they don`t have no democracy. Well - good to see them awake after 50 years of self-induced slumber .... but it`s too late. The land is already scorched barren. Democracy, rule of law, civil society - all the good stuff can`t grow there no more.

Welcome to reality!

#51
// India poors are organised and and have voice due to democracy. Our poors are helpless no organization for poor... //

Well yeah - but what difference does it make? Until 90`s - India has more poverty than pakistan. If you like the freaking trade unions so much - then India would be glad to send them all over to you. Will give you Jyoti Basu as a bonus.

Leftists have been scre!wing India for 50 years - they single-handedly pushed the country into abyss of under-development and stinking poverty. Just when we thought they are dead - 62 of them barge into the parliament.

You want them - you can have them. India is sick of these old vultures.

Very educational article and high quality of interacts as well (for once, without any flames or trolls). An example of the best of chowk.

My reactions:

1. Military seems to be a known quantity; hence there is collusion from judiciary and politicians. Maybe the civilian groups don`t trust each other. The constitution is not taken seriously. That is a huge problem in nation building.

2. Resolution of kashmir, increasing trade and other exchanges with neighbouring countries in the face of globalization can help reduce the role of military, although the link is not a necessary one.

3. Lack of left oriented movements, trade unions etc. while they have their negative side, they also provide a voice to the less well-off. Clearly the feudal setup in Pakistan does not help in the development of such movements.

For the first time, I had an appreciation for lopsided nature of governance in Pakistan (Punjab, in particular, having undue influence).

4. Maybe as the author has suggested the provinces can be broken up further? and increased decentralization. The number of states in India has increased quite a bit since 1947. Bihar was recently split into 3 as was UP. And now we have a spectacle of a seated union minister from one of these tribal states on the run (on charge of murder no less).. but the miracle that is indian democracy goes along, without batting an eyelid. Judiciary in India is strong.. Once the Pak Judiciary puts it foot down, civilian groups can get some energy from that.

5. The role of islam and islamic amendments makes things more complex. It is a longlasting ripple of TNT. I think if the judiciary finds a creative way to jettison these laws without causing unrest it will one more step in making Pakistan a modern nation in which the separation between the state and personal religion is clear. I thank the Indian lawmakers and judiciary for achieving the separation and not making anything a state religion (horrors)