The Mystery of South India

Nazar Hayat:

Good assay. Couple of things that would have made it more interesting for northerners are not mentioned. Rajaraja was one of the ruler or name of a dynastry famous for a distinct south Indian architecture seen in Madurai and few other places, of course the best one in Vijatanagar was leveled by invading Muslims armies. These are long pyramidal temples in beautiful setting using large pieces granite stone and raising them to great heights with the technolody similar to used in building Egyptian pyramids. Name Ujjain adid not make it to this articles also.

Other already pointed out by farangi_kush is that the earliest arrival of Muslims in the subcontinent took place along the Malabar coast. Not only Arab and gulf Muslims but before them Syrian Christians as well as Jews settled there without any problem for centuries. This coastal area was actually a transit point between Arab and Indonesia, Malaysia all the way to Philippines for Muslims traders. Indonesia and Malaysia are Muslims because Muslims were able to find peace, rest, replenish food supply and other amenities before traveling to further east.

[Only Greek Alexander (326 BC) and Arab Mohd Bin Qasim (711 AD) of the Umayyad confined themselves areas now falling in Pakistan.]

This statement is not true. Other than these, Bactrians (Greek-Afghan/ Khorasan) and Parthians (Greek-Persian) also ruled areas now falling in Pakistan. Of course you can add another 500 years of rule of several local Scythian (Jatts and Rajputs) princes who ruled various areas of Pakistan only. Most of the cities of Punjab are activity memories of these minor rulers, for example Sialkot (old name Scala) once had the most powerful empire in the region and many neighboring regions paid tributes to the jatt rulers of Sialkot.

Nazar,
Good article.

Kabuliwala,
``A man, known as Sri Ramulu, self-immolated himself and this was the event that triggered the formation of Andhra and Tamil Nadu from out of the Madras Presidency.``

correction, Potti Sriramulu didn`t commit self immolation. He died after hunger strike.

Some comments
``On the negative side...well there is a lot that is negative also. though Kerala trumpets its literacy rate, it has the highest unemployment rate in India. ditto for suicide and drunkenness. ``

These are the direct results of the communist policies that are trade union friendly and against the business community.

``Tamil Nadu suffers from a masochistic complex where it elects as Chief Minister, candidates from just two parties that are equally corrupt and h@rami. ``
There is not much differece between the two political parties as they both came out of the same ideological party DK (Dravidar Kazagam)

``Andhra likes to trumpets its achievements in IT, but even Hyderabad does not have 24/7 running water. People wait for days and designated times when they fill their tanks and all other utensils in the house with water.``

I think this is just the begining of water problems for Andhra. The problem will be worse in coming years with Karnataka raising the dams and the continuos poor monsoon season. Water problems may get worse for the other states in the south too.

Karnataka, the IT hub of India, cant settle its water disputes with its neighbours and its govt. acts in a manner that encourages linguistic hooligans such as banning English in govt. schools and bowing to the demands of a brigand to secure the release of a popular Kannada filmstar.

Though i am a telugu, i have a soft corner for Kannada people. They are really soft generally. All the kannada people i know so far are very nice. Hopefully the govt of Karnataka resolves the water issues peacefully. One of the reasons (i think) for the language fanaticism is the perceived domination of outside languages in Bangalore.


Just to add about the southern languages, telugu is called (by some english linguist) as Italian of the east due to the fact that every word in telugu ends with a vowel.

Telugu and Kannada scripts are very close and they have more number of Sanskrit words in them than Tamil and Malayalam.

Again there are good number of common words between Tamil and Telugu too.

In lot of temples (particularly in Kanchi) in Tamilnadu, you will find inscriptions in both Tamil and Telugu.

kaurasach # 6

If I am not wrong, North India is basically a patriachal society. The man is considered the master of the house. Though the woman is held in a great esteem.

In contrast, South India is a matriachal society. The woman exercises a strong influence in the household. And her position is more elevated in the society.

This is only a matter of relative comparison.

NHK

Avkrishna # 13

The Arayan migration theory is quite loose in its concept. The local settlers were pushed South but not all local settlers moved South. Then some Arayans moved South as well.

So one finds people in the North from the original genetic stock and some people in the South with very Arayan features.

As I said in my article, the entire Europe is Arayan but there is considerable difference in people`s features from the Northern tip to the Southern tip - another theory that is based on the effects of the climate.

NHK

Jang # 10

The areas in Southern Maharashtra have been Arayanized - so they have fallen out of the South India concept. There is a language konkani there, I guess.

In the comparative sense, South India is more vegetarian.

NHK

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Nazar Khan

Decent attempt at giving an introduction to the land south of the Vindhyas. I just hope that you dont fall into the familiar trap of categorizing all of South India into one bracket, as your article seems to suggest. The land is as diverse as a mini continent. Let me begin with the geography. Kerala for example receives some of the highest rainfall in the country, however on the other hand, large parts of Andhra face severe water shortage almost every summer and the hottest region in India is a place in Andhra called Ramagundam. Even Hyderabad reaches 45 degrees Centigrade now and then. Not all of South India is matriarchal. It is only found in Kerala in the South and that too mostly among the Nair communities. In the north east, I believe it is found among Mizos. A miniscule percentage of South is vegetarian. Large number of Brahmins even, depending on where they are from, are great lovers of meats and sea food. You`d be hard pressed to find decent veg food in an Andhra restaurant. The food is mostly fiery meats, fish and poultry. The chettiars of Tamil Nadu (P. Chidambaram is a chettiar), master tradesmen, have invented an entire cuisine of their own, devoted almost entirely to meat and seafood. And rice too is not the staple of many South Indians. The northern parts of the Deccan, which has black soil and not alluvial fertile soil, eats mostly bajra and other such grain based food. This is found in North Karnataka and north Andhra. Soupy dals and curries are another misconception. Because dosas and idlis are the only things Northies and others know of South Indian food. Having been born and brought up for a while in Andhra, I have to date, not eaten in a banana leaf. This practice is mostly observed in households which believe in the caste system. For fear of having their plates and utensils contaminated. This is limited to a few households such as maybe extremely orthodox Brahmins. They are a minority.

There have been very few communal riots since Independence. Communal riots were unheard of during partition and the aftermath. Unlike certain linguistic groups, who love to tom tom their love for one another inspite of their religion, caste etc, people living in South India did not go for each others` throats at the time of independence. This is not to say that South Indians did not have grievances among themselves. Andhra was the first state to be organized on the basis of language. From as much as I know of Andhra history, there was no butchering and naare baazi such as ``leke rahenge``. A man, known as Sri Ramulu, self-immolated himself and this was the event that triggered the formation of Andhra and Tamil Nadu from out of the Madras Presidency.

Arabs have been trading, settling and intermarrying in the South since even before the advent of Islam. St. Thomas the Apostle brought Christianity to the south and ancient Jewish communities have lived in harmony in the south for millenia. It is significant that minority communities in the south speak their native tongues and not some other language which they perceive as more in tune with their religion.

On the negative side...well there is a lot that is negative also. though Kerala trumpets its literacy rate, it has the highest unemployment rate in India. ditto for suicide and drunkenness. Tamil Nadu suffers from a masochistic complex where it elects as Chief Minister, candidates from just two parties that are equally corrupt and h@rami. Andhra likes to trumpets its achievements in IT, but even Hyderabad does not have 24/7 running water. People wait for days and designated times when they fill their tanks and all other utensils in the house with water. Karnataka, the IT hub of India, cant settle its water disputes with its neighbours and its govt. acts in a manner that encourages linguistic hooligans such as banning English in govt. schools and bowing to the demands of a brigand to secure the release of a popular Kannada filmstar.

What I`m trying to say is, (I have said too much already), the south is way too diverse to even begin thinking of it as one entity, as the land and peoples have been moulded by far too many differing influences and events in history. About half of the South was ruled by Kings and the other half by the British until independence. And that is just one of the causes for its diversity.

regards,

Kabuli

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# 42 Warpster

```` About 700 to 1000 years or earlier back people from north india (brahmins) migrated to the south and integrated there into the culture. these are the present day Iyers and Iyengars (tamil brahmins mostly) who despite being a miniscule minority in their home state are prominent in the scientific and academic world (and the business world as well). ````

This looks like one more theory which fits into the Aryan invasion theory and Aryans being superior to Dravidians.. Even DMK founders had a similar theory..

Can you give me your sources?

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Could someone please write something about that tiny island which is somewhere between sri Lanka and India on the NW side of Sri Lanka. Very very close. Is it still the solid sanctuary from ``civilisatation`` and exists in its uncorrupted pristine state? Is it true that the marauding western ``scientists/anthropologists`` have not yet polluted it by breathing there.

I`ve forgotten the name of this island.

NHK

Not bad..except whats with the Maratthas? They are deccans, how about the Yadavs of Devgiri. Arjun pls fill the gaps.
Also, its incorrect to say that SIs are vegetarians. Only the brahmins (and not the goan or karavari brahmins either), which are a small minority are vegetarians. In north, especially Gujjus, or even Bhaiyyas are mostly vegetarians except the Thakurs and Muslim. I also thought that madrasis are veg, but only madrasis who you see outside south in past were brahmins, who kind of dominated the civil service and govt institutes or research centers or public sector companies. they were all veg so i thought all madrasis are. that is just not the truth.

Urstruly:1
Heeng is perhaps the only spice, in the array of spices India is famed for, which has alien origins. It is Irani. I wonder if it is used in Iranian foods as much.

The other one is the green & red pepper. Never existed in the old world before 1492.

NHK

nice start.. I think South India is a bit of a mystery to Pakistanis and perhaps the not too well travelled north indians (of course veeresh is married to one); nowadays north-south marriages are quite common

About 700 to 1000 years or earlier back people from north india (brahmins) migrated to the south and integrated there into the culture. these are the present day Iyers and Iyengars (tamil brahmins mostly) who despite being a miniscule minority in their home state are prominent in the scientific and academic world (and the business world as well). north indians or foreigners are mostly likely to bump into these characters and come away with the impression that south indians are very smart etc. Few of them keep the Iyer or Iyengar as the surname any more (Pico Iyer the writer and BKS Iyengar of Yoga fame are exceptions); I think the film actress Rekha was an Iyengar as was Hema Malini.

An iyer marriage (the full fledged version) is very interesting

See http://shaadionline.com/sol/asp/rnc/rituals-customs.asp?ComID=71

NK,

Very interesting intro to South India! As a Thamizhan (Tamilian to the northies) I wish it was a more detailed w/less typos though. You probably have a job to feed urself and write about different cultures as a hobby so the typos/lack of details is understandable! Also there are enough meat eaters in the south. Tamilnadu is a state where animal sacrifice is still being followed and cows are slaugthered w/o restrictions in fact other states send their cows to us to avoid breaking the law (yes we are mostly Shaivite Hindus).

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NHK, very fascinating. You are in the august company of a long line of Tamil writers who have written authentic sounding books about other countries without even setting foot in them. Perhaps your lack of intimate familiarity is an advantage in one sense: it allows you to aggregate things and see them as parts of a whole. May be you see the elephant as a large animal whereas sops like me who were born & grew up in the ``south`` see it as varigated and complex and can get our hands around parts of it mistaking them for independent entities.
This article, not surprisingly, is riddled with factual errors. There`s confusion between kerala & karnataka and a tendency to see kerala as representative of the ``south.`` May be kerala produces more google hits than the other parts.
What separates south from the north is cuisine, the type of spices used & how they are combined, the clothing and the type of music. Southern architecture also is different when it comes to temples. The languages are not in the indo-eurpoean family.
The south (present-day kerala & tamil nadu any way) have had extensive contacts with the middle east, south & east asia and have influenced & influenced by cultures in these regions.
I`ll read your article in detail and make further comments.