The Mystery of South India
Nazar Khan August 4, 2004
#148 Posted by Ishwar on January 29, 2007 11:25:47 am
wow, i am a south indian.......and even i didn`t know it`s history properly. Thanks for these intersting facts.
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#147 Posted by harimau on August 25, 2004 12:26:32 am
Ref by bongdongs #133
[Among Bengali`s many go to Gaya to offer prayers for the departed. Panda`s in Gaya similarly maintain family histories.]
If anyone doubts that there is some underlying unifying factor in India, that doubt will be dispelled by a visit to Gaya. During my trip, I saw folks from Karnataka, Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra, Bengal, ( this is my observation from the languages I heard) etc., performing the shraddha ceremony for their forefathers. The core belief that Gaya is the ultimate holiest place (not Prayag/Allahabad, not Benares/Varanasi) as far as funeral ceremonies are concerned is widespread throughout India.
The universal reverence in India for places as dispersed as Hardwar, Gangotri, Prayag, Benares (all in the North) , Puri (East), Dwaraka (West), and Rameshwaram (South) shows that the cultural unity of India was not an artificial British construct though the political unity of India is.
[Among Bengali`s many go to Gaya to offer prayers for the departed. Panda`s in Gaya similarly maintain family histories.]
If anyone doubts that there is some underlying unifying factor in India, that doubt will be dispelled by a visit to Gaya. During my trip, I saw folks from Karnataka, Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra, Bengal, ( this is my observation from the languages I heard) etc., performing the shraddha ceremony for their forefathers. The core belief that Gaya is the ultimate holiest place (not Prayag/Allahabad, not Benares/Varanasi) as far as funeral ceremonies are concerned is widespread throughout India.
The universal reverence in India for places as dispersed as Hardwar, Gangotri, Prayag, Benares (all in the North) , Puri (East), Dwaraka (West), and Rameshwaram (South) shows that the cultural unity of India was not an artificial British construct though the political unity of India is.
#146 Posted by harimau on August 25, 2004 12:26:32 am
Ref mitran #134
[Among the Brahmins of the South, there is a tradition that the Shraddha needs to be performed only once if it were to be done in Haridwar or Rameshwaram, otherwise, there is the annual Shraddha ceremony.]
Probably, this belief varies from community to community. Shraddha at Gaya can be treated as the final and last ceremony one has to perform if for some reason one has to discontinue the practice of annual remembrance though annual ceremonies are strongly recommended even after the Gaya shraddha if circumstances would permit it. Never heard of a final ceremony in Hardwar or Rameshwaram though it is entirely possible that the priests at these places worked out something for families who are unable to travel to Gaya and want to perform one final ceremony and get it over with.
[Among the Brahmins of the South, there is a tradition that the Shraddha needs to be performed only once if it were to be done in Haridwar or Rameshwaram, otherwise, there is the annual Shraddha ceremony.]
Probably, this belief varies from community to community. Shraddha at Gaya can be treated as the final and last ceremony one has to perform if for some reason one has to discontinue the practice of annual remembrance though annual ceremonies are strongly recommended even after the Gaya shraddha if circumstances would permit it. Never heard of a final ceremony in Hardwar or Rameshwaram though it is entirely possible that the priests at these places worked out something for families who are unable to travel to Gaya and want to perform one final ceremony and get it over with.
#145 Posted by harimau on August 23, 2004 6:24:13 am
Ref Masanamuthu aka Pearl of the Graveyard #136
[Very interesting that what you got out of that whole abstract is what HLA stands for. So much for your ability to pick out meanings.]
Sigh.... I did surmise that I would have to connect ALL the dots for you but when I had three minutes to respond to you before I left for the boonies of Montana, I thought I would give you a hint. But you obviously don`t take a hint. Did you notice that NOT ONE Chowk reader had a problem with my short response other than you?
In tissue transplantation, the donor and the host are matched along various major loci designated HLA-A, HLA-B, HLA-DR. (Actually, some thirty years ago, the major loci were called HLA-A, HLA-B, HLA-C and HLA-D). For transplantation to be successful, the tissues of both the donor and the host will have to match on as many of these major loci as possible. Doctors knew already that there were some 50+ additional sub-loci which also play a crucial role in acceptance of the transplanted tissue and in the severity of the graft vs. host reaction.
It was also known that matching along the four major loci was possible with an identical twin. With a parent or a sibling, the match would in general be in less than 4 loci. However, tissue donation by a closely related family member may not be possible in all cases (as with adopted children whose birth records are sealed by law in the US or when the patient is an only child or when the parents are too old to donate tissue) and the possibility of tissue donation by unrelated donors was explored. With aggressive patient management, transplants soon grew to be quite successful even with tissue grafts from unrelated donors.
As tissue transplantation became more widespread, the possibility of setting up donor registries was explored. Thus the National and International Bone Marrow registries were formed to assist in locating HLA-compatible donors quickly. As tissue transplantation became more common, it was found that matching Hispanics, Asians (meaning Chinese), South Asians and such ethnic populations with European-descent White population was mostly out of the question. Thus separate registries catering to these ethnic groups have been set up to assist in locating willing tissue donors.
Since the medical investigation of tissue matching revealed clear differences in various ethnic groups, it would be natural for the Madurai Kamaraj University researchers to use the HLA types and the associated sub-loci within the various HLAs as the markers that might prove/disprove ethnic homogeneity in a given locality or with distant population groups.
I know what you are thinking by now, Masanamuthu, and I want to encourage you in your very first attempt at thinking. Never let it be said that a Tamil brahmin prevented a non-brahmin`s attempt to engage his brain in solving issues of crucial importance. I know you want to do good for the Tamil population in India and you are thinking of a registry of willing heart donors. You should do it and I think yours should be the first name on such a registry.
[It also is interesting that you have to rely on some distant cousin`s achievement (in terms of earning degrees) to advertise your wares. Don`t be so paranoid. If you were smart it would come through in you how you make your arguments: whether you are logical, cogent, and coherent, or making random points disconnected from reality. No need to make special efforts. It`s back to the drawing board for you.]
I was just trying to show you how a Tamil brahmin`s brain works and how he doesn`t need to be spoonfed from first grade. Just like I try to point out that the two Nobel Prizes won by South Indians were both by Tamil brahmins. A bunch of people who were temple priests and astrologers suddenly produced Nobel winners with about 50 years of Western scientific education. What have you Sudalaikkannus and Pechimuthus done with the last 40 years of affirmative action? Have you got one accomplishment you can cite? Nope. ``Monkey see, monkey do`` is not the way to accomplishments in science though it might get you far in a society of monkeys.
As to logical, cogent and coherent points, I still don`t see how you can support affirmative action (quotas and reservations) for Muslims who have indisputably murdered Hindus by the millions over several centuries while simultaneously supporting punitive sanctions against brahmins for the crime of not touching you (and thus not murdering you).
By the way, don`t tell me you haven`t seen the bellyacheing that has been going on in soc.culture.tamil and similar places in cyberspace about how the Tamil brahmins manage to get into the code coolie business in the US with a 3-year BSc degree whereas the Masanamuthus have to get a 4-year BE (well, actually, more like 7 years) or even an ME to be able to come to the US.
PS. A word about tissue donor registries. Donor registries are used for all types of transplantable tissues but in the case of bone marrow a donor can donate marrow and continue to live. People with two kidneys can donate one and survive on the remaining kidney. People can donate a lobe of their liver and survive. It is rare for someone to offer to donate a kidney or a piece of their liver to an unrelated person. That hasn`t prevented the Dr. Masanamuthus of Tamil Nadu from harvesting kidneys from unsuspecting people and selling it to patients with renal disease. The doctors produced under the affirmative action program essentially are the equivalent of car thieves in the US who steal cars to order.
As your homework exercise, try and extrapolate that to your heart donor registry! The entire Chowk readership would be interested in finding out about the limitations and capabilities of the brain of a typical Masanamuthu/Tamil Jewel.
PPS. As to your comment about that specific genetic study being motivated by ideas of racial superiority, you forget that two of the researchers were Japanese who have no reason to want to prove/disprove the superiority of one Indian group over another.
[Very interesting that what you got out of that whole abstract is what HLA stands for. So much for your ability to pick out meanings.]
Sigh.... I did surmise that I would have to connect ALL the dots for you but when I had three minutes to respond to you before I left for the boonies of Montana, I thought I would give you a hint. But you obviously don`t take a hint. Did you notice that NOT ONE Chowk reader had a problem with my short response other than you?
In tissue transplantation, the donor and the host are matched along various major loci designated HLA-A, HLA-B, HLA-DR. (Actually, some thirty years ago, the major loci were called HLA-A, HLA-B, HLA-C and HLA-D). For transplantation to be successful, the tissues of both the donor and the host will have to match on as many of these major loci as possible. Doctors knew already that there were some 50+ additional sub-loci which also play a crucial role in acceptance of the transplanted tissue and in the severity of the graft vs. host reaction.
It was also known that matching along the four major loci was possible with an identical twin. With a parent or a sibling, the match would in general be in less than 4 loci. However, tissue donation by a closely related family member may not be possible in all cases (as with adopted children whose birth records are sealed by law in the US or when the patient is an only child or when the parents are too old to donate tissue) and the possibility of tissue donation by unrelated donors was explored. With aggressive patient management, transplants soon grew to be quite successful even with tissue grafts from unrelated donors.
As tissue transplantation became more widespread, the possibility of setting up donor registries was explored. Thus the National and International Bone Marrow registries were formed to assist in locating HLA-compatible donors quickly. As tissue transplantation became more common, it was found that matching Hispanics, Asians (meaning Chinese), South Asians and such ethnic populations with European-descent White population was mostly out of the question. Thus separate registries catering to these ethnic groups have been set up to assist in locating willing tissue donors.
Since the medical investigation of tissue matching revealed clear differences in various ethnic groups, it would be natural for the Madurai Kamaraj University researchers to use the HLA types and the associated sub-loci within the various HLAs as the markers that might prove/disprove ethnic homogeneity in a given locality or with distant population groups.
I know what you are thinking by now, Masanamuthu, and I want to encourage you in your very first attempt at thinking. Never let it be said that a Tamil brahmin prevented a non-brahmin`s attempt to engage his brain in solving issues of crucial importance. I know you want to do good for the Tamil population in India and you are thinking of a registry of willing heart donors. You should do it and I think yours should be the first name on such a registry.
[It also is interesting that you have to rely on some distant cousin`s achievement (in terms of earning degrees) to advertise your wares. Don`t be so paranoid. If you were smart it would come through in you how you make your arguments: whether you are logical, cogent, and coherent, or making random points disconnected from reality. No need to make special efforts. It`s back to the drawing board for you.]
I was just trying to show you how a Tamil brahmin`s brain works and how he doesn`t need to be spoonfed from first grade. Just like I try to point out that the two Nobel Prizes won by South Indians were both by Tamil brahmins. A bunch of people who were temple priests and astrologers suddenly produced Nobel winners with about 50 years of Western scientific education. What have you Sudalaikkannus and Pechimuthus done with the last 40 years of affirmative action? Have you got one accomplishment you can cite? Nope. ``Monkey see, monkey do`` is not the way to accomplishments in science though it might get you far in a society of monkeys.
As to logical, cogent and coherent points, I still don`t see how you can support affirmative action (quotas and reservations) for Muslims who have indisputably murdered Hindus by the millions over several centuries while simultaneously supporting punitive sanctions against brahmins for the crime of not touching you (and thus not murdering you).
By the way, don`t tell me you haven`t seen the bellyacheing that has been going on in soc.culture.tamil and similar places in cyberspace about how the Tamil brahmins manage to get into the code coolie business in the US with a 3-year BSc degree whereas the Masanamuthus have to get a 4-year BE (well, actually, more like 7 years) or even an ME to be able to come to the US.
PS. A word about tissue donor registries. Donor registries are used for all types of transplantable tissues but in the case of bone marrow a donor can donate marrow and continue to live. People with two kidneys can donate one and survive on the remaining kidney. People can donate a lobe of their liver and survive. It is rare for someone to offer to donate a kidney or a piece of their liver to an unrelated person. That hasn`t prevented the Dr. Masanamuthus of Tamil Nadu from harvesting kidneys from unsuspecting people and selling it to patients with renal disease. The doctors produced under the affirmative action program essentially are the equivalent of car thieves in the US who steal cars to order.
As your homework exercise, try and extrapolate that to your heart donor registry! The entire Chowk readership would be interested in finding out about the limitations and capabilities of the brain of a typical Masanamuthu/Tamil Jewel.
PPS. As to your comment about that specific genetic study being motivated by ideas of racial superiority, you forget that two of the researchers were Japanese who have no reason to want to prove/disprove the superiority of one Indian group over another.
#144 Posted by harimau on August 23, 2004 6:24:13 am
Ref Digital Rectal Examination #141
[Whats the big deal abt gettin an MD? R we superhuman or somethin? There R smart MDs & stupid MDs.]
I KNOW there are stupid MDs. Look at the number of Masanamuthus who flunk the Visa Qualifying Exam in the US!
As to the rest of your comments, I think next time you should ask the doctor to use a little bit of lubricant before examining your bottom. You would then be able to sit down and not be jumpy.
[Whats the big deal abt gettin an MD? R we superhuman or somethin? There R smart MDs & stupid MDs.]
I KNOW there are stupid MDs. Look at the number of Masanamuthus who flunk the Visa Qualifying Exam in the US!
As to the rest of your comments, I think next time you should ask the doctor to use a little bit of lubricant before examining your bottom. You would then be able to sit down and not be jumpy.
#143 Posted by harimau on August 23, 2004 6:24:13 am
Ref AnIndian #137
[Oh man! are u saying Brahmins are smarter just cuz they r Brahmins?]
Yes! Because that is the claim Inji-kari-kuzhambu aka Soysauce has been making to get into a professional college. I have no qualms at all about trumpeting my perceived superiority particularly in front of those who hold it as a grudge against me.
[Oh man! are u saying Brahmins are smarter just cuz they r Brahmins?]
Yes! Because that is the claim Inji-kari-kuzhambu aka Soysauce has been making to get into a professional college. I have no qualms at all about trumpeting my perceived superiority particularly in front of those who hold it as a grudge against me.
#142 Posted by harimau on August 23, 2004 6:24:13 am
Ref puyu #140
[Harimau is suffering from severe persecution complex.]
Oh yeah? And AnIndian thinks that I am suffering from a superiority complex. Tell you what, if you armchair analysts have the brains, go get licensed as psychiatrists and try to earn a dishonest buck!
[If you believe in the theory of karma you shouldn`t be complaining.]
I am not complaining about any personal loss on my part. If anything, I am complaining about what affirmative action has made India into: a third-rate country proud of being third-rate.
The medal tally in the current Olympics bears out my statement. A billion people producing one lousy silver medallist. That too in a sport requiring only hand-eye coordination but not physical effort or endurance like the marathon would. And coming in behind the sand niggers of the United Arab Emirates!
[Harimau is suffering from severe persecution complex.]
Oh yeah? And AnIndian thinks that I am suffering from a superiority complex. Tell you what, if you armchair analysts have the brains, go get licensed as psychiatrists and try to earn a dishonest buck!
[If you believe in the theory of karma you shouldn`t be complaining.]
I am not complaining about any personal loss on my part. If anything, I am complaining about what affirmative action has made India into: a third-rate country proud of being third-rate.
The medal tally in the current Olympics bears out my statement. A billion people producing one lousy silver medallist. That too in a sport requiring only hand-eye coordination but not physical effort or endurance like the marathon would. And coming in behind the sand niggers of the United Arab Emirates!
#141 Posted by DrDr on August 15, 2004 1:28:49 pm
HaramiU
Whats the big deal abt gettin an MD? R we superhuman or somethin? There R smart MDs & stupid MDs. Ur really scrapin the bottom of ur sewer when U bring in a distant cousin who 4 all we know could b stupid - just like u.
Whats the big deal abt gettin an MD? R we superhuman or somethin? There R smart MDs & stupid MDs. Ur really scrapin the bottom of ur sewer when U bring in a distant cousin who 4 all we know could b stupid - just like u.
#140 Posted by puyu on August 14, 2004 9:12:41 am
Harimau is suffering from severe persecution complex.
If you believe in the theory of karma you shouldn`t be complaining.
If you believe in the theory of karma you shouldn`t be complaining.
#139 Posted by nikki7777 on August 13, 2004 4:22:44 pm
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#138 Posted by halur on August 13, 2004 1:11:23 pm
With the brains of Tam Brams and the good looks of the pakistani`s possibilities of a true super race?
#137 Posted by AnIndian on August 13, 2004 11:51:10 am
Oh man! are u saying Brahmins are smarter just cuz they r Brahmins? Why you pulling the caste card here in a thread discussing positive attributes about South India? For every Brahmin who you claim to be smart there are as many if not more non-Brahmins who have accomplished the same or more (Dr.Ambedkar comes to mind for now cuz I admire him for his papers/ideas). I was born into a Tamil Brahmin family myself and it is just sick that so many of us still go around trumpeting our superiority while licking the White man`s feet. I am not advocating for a reservation scheme either but lets not paint everyone with the same brush. Grow up and use your intelligence in ways other than trying to prove the ``superiority`` of a race.
#136 Posted by soysauce on August 13, 2004 9:50:31 am
#135 harimau
Very interesting that what you got out of that whole abstract is what HLA stands for. So much for your ability to pick out meanings. It also is interesting that you have to rely on some distant cousin`s achievement (in terms of earning degrees) to advertise your wares. Don`t be so paranoid. If you were smart it would come through in you how you make your arguments: whether you are logical, cogent, and coherent, or making random points disconnected from reality. No need to make special efforts. It`s back to the drawing board for you.
Very interesting that what you got out of that whole abstract is what HLA stands for. So much for your ability to pick out meanings. It also is interesting that you have to rely on some distant cousin`s achievement (in terms of earning degrees) to advertise your wares. Don`t be so paranoid. If you were smart it would come through in you how you make your arguments: whether you are logical, cogent, and coherent, or making random points disconnected from reality. No need to make special efforts. It`s back to the drawing board for you.
#135 Posted by harimau on August 13, 2004 6:27:43 am
Ref Sudalaikkannu # 126
By parsing, you mean ``dumb it down for me``, don`t you?
Very simply put HLA stands for Human Leukocyte Antigen. Leukocytes are white blood cells.
When some 20 years back I started looking at HLA typing for a friend, I went to the National Library of Medicine and read about 10 years worth of journals on tissue transplantation. That means that I know how to read those journals and pick out the meaning and lose the technical jargon.
Just because your intelligence matches that of the Asian mynah which is able to repreduce human sounds doesn`t mean that others fall into the same category.
By the way, one of my distant cousins had a master`s degree in computer science and 10 years of work experience and he switched to medicine and earned his MD in the US. Something to be said for the celebrated South Indian brahmin brain against which your only defense has been that you need a quota/affirmative action for the mentally retarded.
By parsing, you mean ``dumb it down for me``, don`t you?
Very simply put HLA stands for Human Leukocyte Antigen. Leukocytes are white blood cells.
When some 20 years back I started looking at HLA typing for a friend, I went to the National Library of Medicine and read about 10 years worth of journals on tissue transplantation. That means that I know how to read those journals and pick out the meaning and lose the technical jargon.
Just because your intelligence matches that of the Asian mynah which is able to repreduce human sounds doesn`t mean that others fall into the same category.
By the way, one of my distant cousins had a master`s degree in computer science and 10 years of work experience and he switched to medicine and earned his MD in the US. Something to be said for the celebrated South Indian brahmin brain against which your only defense has been that you need a quota/affirmative action for the mentally retarded.
#134 Posted by Mitran on August 11, 2004 11:16:37 am
#124 , #125
Among the Brahmins of the South, there is a tradition that the Shraddha needs to be performed only once if it were to be done in Haridwar or Rameshwaram, otherwise, there is the annual Shraddha ceremony.
Among the Brahmins of the South, there is a tradition that the Shraddha needs to be performed only once if it were to be done in Haridwar or Rameshwaram, otherwise, there is the annual Shraddha ceremony.
#133 Posted by bongdongs on August 11, 2004 6:29:28 am
#125
Among Bengali`s many go to Gaya to offer prayers for the departed. Panda`s in Gaya similarly maintain family histories.
Among Bengali`s many go to Gaya to offer prayers for the departed. Panda`s in Gaya similarly maintain family histories.
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