Bhaiya, Malhar Sunao

ballu and hamid you guys should collaberate on an article, preferably with some clips.

i must say that classical music (hindustani and carnatic) is on a massive revival in india,strongly suppported by all classes, and not associated with mirasis anymore.

#161 by hamid_81 on August 12, 2004 10:16am PT
Fuzon reviving classical music through fusion or Pop music? Now all this is just a passing fad- tomorrow we would suddenly have people rapping in Raags and then claiming that it would revive classical music? or we would have some rababiya from Afghanistan playing with the rock band and claiming that it would revive the interest in rabab! And what has Mehdi Hasan Saheb`s efforts done any good to our Baluchs and Pushto audiences? Can anybody tell what is the level of appreciation of classical music in those areas? Let us forget the Punjabi audiences whose obsession for fast music has already brought the downfall of classical music through its besura and be-sar-paer taanbazi.

dost-mittar, things are not so bad after all in Pakistan. Yearly Music conference takes place in Lahore. Then there is this organization in karachi, called Sapurna :
http://www.sampurna.sdnpk.org/

whihc is doing alot to promote classical music. From Qawwals to sitar nawaz`s to singers, it is promoting every form of classical and light classical music that has been dormant in Pakistan. If we don`t take baaby steps, you can`t get to the strides part. So I think it is not a lost cause. Youngsters still learn classical music, and sing and play instruments. There has been a huge revival of ``good music`` in Pakistan, with the new Pop singers and light singers, that have come up on the scene. It is easy to disregard them, but sometimes they do a good job. There is this bad called Fuzon, and the lead singer is the nephew of Ustad Amanat Ali Khan, ShafQat Amanat Ali. I have heard him sing classical khayals which he still does. But he came into the popo scene. I don`t know how to categorize it, but it is different from the dominant pop. Because he has composed all his songs in raagas. Some of his songs are named on ragaas. In an interview, he said that our youth needs to understand classical music and appreciate it. So to make them understand this divine art we need to present it in a way whihc they would be able to comprehend. Some of the taans and ``murkis`` that he does are totally beyond any singer of his cader whether a khyaliya or a Popiya. I suggest you listen to some of his songs:
1. Khamach.
2. Madhuvanti.
3. Malhar
4. Annkhon kay sagar.
Listen to these, and you will know that slowly people are getting a taste of good music back.
Slowly but surely. If you can then also get Shafqat`s new recording of Jaijaiwanti and Kedara, a khayal recording.
regards
Hamid

ballukhan:
Thanks! Now, you know how much I know:-):
BTW Gaud Malhar seemed to be a favourite of the late music director Roshan. That particular song was from the film ``Barsaat ki Raat`` but he also used it in other films.

hamid_81:
That song was from the film ``Basant Bahar``. You will probably like some other songs from that film too, esp. ``Ketaki gulab juhi champak`` by Bhimsen Joshi.

Re. the decline of classical music in Pakistan, I think my memory is longer and it is not attributable to Benazir or Sharif. For that you have to go way back. In the old Punjab, as elsewhere on the subcontinent except Maharashtra and Bengal, the patronage of classical music was limited to durbars and did not penetrate into the middle class, which made fun of classical musicians as mirasis. After the partition, the official patronage also was denied to them as Radio Pakistan stopped playing their songs, claiming that they invoked hindu gods and godesses (which they frequently did!). This is why people like Bade Ghulam Ali had to move to India for lack of support. After that, only semi-classical forms which were usable in ghazals and qawaalis survived and were well exploited by people like Mehdi Hasan and Saabri Brothers. Recently, there has been some revival of classical music (there was a conference in Karachi earlier this year) as Musharraf has decided to confront the mullahs. But it may be too late to revive an art form which remained dormant for two generations.

Dost-
I just hear a 30 sec clip of the song on the net - it has clear signs of `Gaud Malhar` of the type that uses Komal Gandhar and which is mostly sung by the Dhrupadiyas. However, the use of Shuddh Gandhara gives a feeling of Ramdasi Malhar. However, the treatment appears to be that of Gaud Malhar except that the popular version of Gaud Malhar in Khayals does not use Komal Gandhar (g).
Miya ki malhar uses the komal gandhar in this pattern
SNnDNS,MRPMPgMgMRS
Bol re papi hara -Vani Jayaram.
Ek Bus Tu hi Nahi (Shahzad`s Ghazal) sung by Mehdi Hasan,
Khushi Ne Mujh Ko Thukaraya- Ghazal sung by Akhtari Bai.

Gaud Malhar
Garajat Barasat Saavan Ayo- Some Late Song

Let me listen to the song in entirety then I can tell you the exact type of Malhar.

BalluKhan Saheb. I know there are more than 4 Kedaras, and in fact I know there names, Chalas and Some Bandishes. I also know the many Shankaras and Malhars. I know what there is to be known. And on a politer note, none of your Indian youngsters can be a match for a Ustad who has given his life for music. They are not even a match for his younger son. But you saying so, doesn`t make it so and neither does my saying so, makes it so. It is what the world believes. And it believes that Rais Khan is brilliant, no matter what the ``other`` sitartists/singers say.
Now to dost-mittar ji`s comment. I haven`t heard the song. If you tell me the name of the movie I will look it up and listen to it. In movie songs, ususally the base is either some raag or chalan of a raag, but then the composition differs slightly off, if the composer so desires. Just like the song, ``Raina Beeti Jaye``. The first part is Raag Todi but then the antara is totally not-Todi. So to say perfectly in whihc raag a song has been composed is very difficult.
Now to Bhairavi. It is extremely Popular. But that makes it a challenge to sing or play. Then people started varying it. Now we have different sort of Bhiravi`s, like Sindh Bhairavi, Sudh Bhairavi(Listen to Abdul Karim Khansaheb`s brilliant Sudh Bhairavi), Jangla Bhairavi ( Bade Ghulam Ali Khan`s Naina More Taras rahiyo, Aja Balam Pardesi). I am getting late for a meeting. But once I come back I wil write in detail about Bhairavi and its many facets. And we should also wait patiently for a reply from KhanSaheb, as whatever prevails, he knows more than I do. And that is a fact.
H

#146 by hamid_81 on August 11, 2004 6:01am PT
``............... composed ghazals in Ragas, and sang them. In every concert of his in which he sang ghazals, he elaborately discussed the raag. Thus with his efforts, classical music revived in Pakistan....``

In fact Rais Khan Saheb is no match even for the kids from SaregamaPa serial on Zee TV. Some of these kids in it are brilliant. And none of the PAki Sitarists can ever match the talented and aspiring youngsters we have in India- we have a loads of them in india.

Hamid

There are more than 4 Kedars! Now you will have to say ``please`` before I even tell you their names.

ballu, hamid:
Both of you seem to belong to the same biradari, even if different gharanas. So, why this hostility? Those of us who are classically-challenged are learning something from your jugalbandi. So, to change the tone (tune?), here is a question for either of you:

I am just coming back from an awesome oddissi dance performance by an Indian troupe with live music on flute, violin, mridingam, etc. On the way back, someone put on an old cassette with one of my favourite songs from the film Basant Bahar, ``Bhaiy bhanjana vandana sun hamari``, sung by Manna Dey. Has either of you heard this song? If so, do you know whether it is in raag Bhairavi or Kaal Bhairavi (I hope it`s either of the two)? If you know, could you please tell me the difference between the two raagas in non-musical terms, e.g., with the help of examples of popular songs based on these raagas? Thanks.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

#151 by ballukhan

BalluKhan the idiot, Mehdi Hasan has not been singing since the last 5 years because of his health. And yes I agree any randi-baaz Mirasi from Delhi taught by you can probably think he is better than rais Khan, but I don`t think that is true. I really don`t feel like having this discussion with a fail, incompetent and stupid musician, who doesn;t have a life. Start a Kabab Shop. You will end up making more money. Bu OOOPPS! I am sorry you can`t even start that. And that reminds me. You Eat Beef?

#149 by ballukhan on August 11, 2004 7:14am PT
``So he lost Madan Mohan. ``. I think Madan Mohan lost Rais Khan.
Well, somebody said `` Jahalat chupi rahe tu achi lagti hai``. I gues that is a good reason for you to justify why you are not popular. Secondly, as regards me, I am good at what I do. I play., people like me. I tour around the United States and have fun. Play, enjoy and listen to good music. I think you should cease being a ``kunway ka Maindak`` and learn about what the world is all about. You will not become a good artist by going bersek on me. You will become good by practising humility as you have said. And I don`t think you know who I have learned from.
I have learned from Ustad Sajid Hussain. Ustad Rais Khan, Ustad Asad Ali Khan(Beenkar) a true Dhurpadiya, who knows what he is talking about. Sublime and beyond anything and everything, Ustad Imrat Khan and his youngest son, Ustad Shafaatullah Khan. I am not stupid and know what I am talking about. But I just dislike you for your utter stupidity, and pig-headedness. Really man, get a life. Go sing something. Bashing Rais Khan and me will not get you anywhere. You still be obscure and a failure, which you very much are.
I pitty you, for your condition. If not you then has any student of yours been popular? Anything? Well, I think it is time in your life when you should think about doing something substantial, instead of bashing other Ustads, if not for yourself then for the art you practise.
FYI: Kedara was one of the first Raag`s taught to me and I know whihc Madham is in Kedar. Oh I am sorry, I see you forgot to mention. there are two in Kedar. LOL
H

#146 by hamid_81 on August 11, 2004 6:01am PT
``............... composed ghazals in Ragas, and sang them. In every concert of his in which he sang ghazals, he elaborately discussed the raag. Thus with his efforts, classical music revived in Pakistan....``

Now you are making stories. What do you think Mehdi Hasan Saheb has been doing since last 50 years in Pakistan. He has composed and sung Ghazals in virtually every possible raags including some rare KArnatic ones as well. In fact he was the one who used to sing sargams in midst of a Ghazals - and yet it did not much to revive classical music in Pakistan. And what about the PAkistani admirers of Akhtari Bai? So do not give this crap about Rais Khan singing Ghazals in Raags has revived classical music in Pakistan. Even an ordinary son of mirasi from old Delhi can sing better than Rais Khan! THese stupid stories of yours have been constructed just to hide that fact regarding the pathetic state of affairs in Pakistan of the classical music and musicians.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

#146 by hamid_81 on August 11, 2004 6:01am PT

From what all I can understand you are just a kid who thinks doing `dir dir` very fast on the sitar like an junkie Rock guitarist is what Indian Classical Music is all about. Pathetic!! Go and try to understand which Madhyams are used in Rag Kedar and how the madhyams of Raga Shuddha Sarang are different from that of Rag Kedar. I do not intend comparing with Rais Khan since I practice a different style and I do not need to sell my cassettes or sing in the birthday parties in order to survive. I practice music as an expressive art form rathar than as a fad or a profession. So why I am not known is something that is besides the point.
But I seriously think that you have been given the worst `Taleem`- you are `Be-KAeda`` and a ``Jahilya`` because the first leson that we learn is HUMILITY which you lack miserably.
You are arrogant and full of hatred for others and I can see that you can never learn classical Indian music in its true spirit from any teacher- you may be able to pick up some finger techniques but would remain like a pig who only knows how to move forward in one direction and would eternally do `dir dir` thinking you have mastered classical music.
The point about madan mohan episode is just that Rais Khan could not understand what the other person implied- and he did not wait for any clarification. So he lost Madan Mohan.

well, thats a good article...... but you should know one thing... Its not only what happened to muslims in Hindustan but also to hindus in Pakistan. I personally know an elder who is proud to claim that he killed more than 50 hindus during independence riots. Interesting fact is that a whole hindu muhalla in old lahore was burnt down to ashes along with its residents...

Now, I am not saying that it was muslims who were at fault. What i am saying is that things were happening at both ends. Maybe this is the meaning of war which engulfs every human being without knowing them. I remember qudrat-ullah-shahab quoting that at the time of independence everyone made its own parameters to serve the country. and so the era continues...

What important is that we should know what happened on both ends and condemn it for the humanity sake. Representing one side of picture sometimes increase the anger and hate for the other side. And most of all, though being a Pakistani i love Pakitan but find it important to live and let others live.....

I dont want to criticize you but want to get your attention to something which i found important as i always go around listening what happened to muslims and nothing else.... Facts go much different......