Bhaiya, Malhar Sunao
Hamid Mahmood August 6, 2004
#35 Posted by ana on August 8, 2004 7:51:37 am
baRachota:
rather than justifying the ill-treatment of pakistani christians by matching it up with the dalits, why don`t you address the issue of what is happening in your own backyard? no one has ever said that india is a perfect democracy, but guess what? it IS a democracy. and it has age-old issues that it will continue to grapple with, and consciences that are, as someone described, either careless, or those which spearhead movements towards change.
i know how some christians are treated in india. i know of the struggle of the dalits. and i KNOW how christians are treated in pakistan. obviously you aren`t interested in all of that. you are interested in your agenda of maligning hindus and other groups in india, which is what you have been doing ever since you first appeared on chowk. so please spare us all your chootiaapa and your so-called concern for what is happening to the dalits in india.
plats8,
gearhead is yet another reincarnation of baRachota. his various changes in name do not change the stupidity and the insecurities that lie deep within him. bechaara.
and why are the chowk editors being asked what possessed them to publish this article? they`ve published drivel before haven`t they? what possesses them to publish an article by a. shiraz for example? obviously they feel that what they`re sharing with us are ``opinions`` or ``artistic attempts`` that are not intended to be taken personally. forgive me as i try not to choke while laughing.
oh, and nb. . .urstruly ka tolerance ka elastic aTak jata hai, if you know what i mean. when it snaps back after being aTka hua, it hurts him really. no one else.
rather than justifying the ill-treatment of pakistani christians by matching it up with the dalits, why don`t you address the issue of what is happening in your own backyard? no one has ever said that india is a perfect democracy, but guess what? it IS a democracy. and it has age-old issues that it will continue to grapple with, and consciences that are, as someone described, either careless, or those which spearhead movements towards change.
i know how some christians are treated in india. i know of the struggle of the dalits. and i KNOW how christians are treated in pakistan. obviously you aren`t interested in all of that. you are interested in your agenda of maligning hindus and other groups in india, which is what you have been doing ever since you first appeared on chowk. so please spare us all your chootiaapa and your so-called concern for what is happening to the dalits in india.
plats8,
gearhead is yet another reincarnation of baRachota. his various changes in name do not change the stupidity and the insecurities that lie deep within him. bechaara.
and why are the chowk editors being asked what possessed them to publish this article? they`ve published drivel before haven`t they? what possesses them to publish an article by a. shiraz for example? obviously they feel that what they`re sharing with us are ``opinions`` or ``artistic attempts`` that are not intended to be taken personally. forgive me as i try not to choke while laughing.
oh, and nb. . .urstruly ka tolerance ka elastic aTak jata hai, if you know what i mean. when it snaps back after being aTka hua, it hurts him really. no one else.
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#34 Posted by Dalit on August 8, 2004 1:35:16 am
Deny this Hindu Apologist! The inveterate liars!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1154479,00.html
Two years on, Gujarat`s wounds are still raw
Once peaceful Muslim and Hindu community ruined by resentment over 1,000 violent deaths as police fail to bring most culprits to trial
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
For the last two years, Salimbhai Jamumiya Sindhi has lived in a plastic tent with no running water and only intermittent electricity.
``This is what the Hindus have left us with,`` he says, pointing to homes made of little more than tarpaulins and plastic sheets. ``We did nothing to deserve this and we cannot live with the Hindus now.``
The relief camp on the outskirts of the Gujarati town of Modasa is all that remains of the Muslims of Kidiyad, a sleepy hamlet 100 miles from the state capital Gandhinagar. Islam and Hinduism had coexisted here for centuries until a deadly wave of religious violence swept through Gujarat two years ago this week.
Salimbhai, who had been elected the village sarpanch or headman, lost his wife in the carnage - she was beaten to death - and 70 other Muslims from the village were burnt alive by armed Hindu mobs.
In Kidiyad, all that stands of 50 Muslims` homes are their red brick and mud walls. Left untouched are the Hindu houses and cowsheds. In a sign of the divide, Hindus in Kidiyad made it clear that they regarded Muslims partly as the source, not the victim, of the troubles.
``As long as the Muslims can convince us that there will be no problems then we would welcome them back,`` said Nadubhai Ujambhai, a local salesman. The Gujarat violence broke out in February 2002 when a Muslim mob set alight a train carrying Hindu pilgrims on their way back from the site of the destroyed mosque in Ayodhya. The incident, which claimed the lives of 60 worshippers, sparked three weeks of murderous reprisals by Hindu mobs that left more than 1,000 people dead, most of them Muslims.
Many claim the government of the Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata party in Gujarat looked on as Hindu mobs rampaged through the state.
Despite the attacks the BJP, led by Narendra Modi, a hardline preacher turned politician, won a landslide election in the state at the end of 2002. ``The government have not done anything to help us here. The police did not stop anybody. We have had to sell the land we have always lived on and were forced to move to Modasa because it is a Muslim area. We are safe here,`` says Salimbhai.
Distrust
The deep reservoir of distrust and fear among Muslims has led many to live apart from their fellow Gujaratis. Salimbhai says that Muslim children, who used to go to government schools, will now attend a local madrassa to get an ``Islamic`` education. ``Nobody wants to work for a Hindu here. But neither are Hindus willing to give a Muslim a job.``
Human rights groups say the failure of the Gujarat state authorities to hold those responsible for the deaths to account has made it difficult to reconcile the communities. More than 4,250 cases relating to the riots have been registered with the police. Yet in the 24 months since the riots, only 15 Hindus have been convicted. ``We have no faith in the government of Gujarat,`` says Shakeel Ahamad, president of the Islamic relief committee, which is trying to resettle displaced Muslims. ``They are making every effort to hinder the legal process.``
Many trials of Hindus accused of taking part have resulted in acquittals and the Gujarat courts have been criticised by the country`s supreme court. India`s most important judges will this week decide whether to hand over inquiries to central government investigators.
The police deny they are dragging their feet. They insist the difficulty lies in getting people to turn in their neighbours.
Ahmedabad`s Naroda Patia district was the scene of some of the worst atrocities in 2002. Women were raped, others set on fire. Men were clubbed to death. Even today menace hangs in the air. There are 88 police officers on permanent duty to protect the 80 witnesses to events.
Although the state government lodged its ``first information report`` days after the attack in Naroda Patia, legal activists say little has been done to bring the case to court. ``The state is in control of this process ... but the authorities have simply sat on it,`` said Jiteesh Odedra, a researcher for Delhi-based Human Rights Monitor. ``They have joined this case with another 28. Until they arrest all those accused in all the cases, nothing can move forward in Naroda Patia.``
K Nityanandam, spokesman for the Gujarat government`s home affairs ministry, refuted any suggestion that the government is responsible for the delay. ``A few Muslims still do feel alienated but there was no question of the state being involved in what happened. We have to wait for the judicial processes to end.``
http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1154479,00.html
Two years on, Gujarat`s wounds are still raw
Once peaceful Muslim and Hindu community ruined by resentment over 1,000 violent deaths as police fail to bring most culprits to trial
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
For the last two years, Salimbhai Jamumiya Sindhi has lived in a plastic tent with no running water and only intermittent electricity.
``This is what the Hindus have left us with,`` he says, pointing to homes made of little more than tarpaulins and plastic sheets. ``We did nothing to deserve this and we cannot live with the Hindus now.``
The relief camp on the outskirts of the Gujarati town of Modasa is all that remains of the Muslims of Kidiyad, a sleepy hamlet 100 miles from the state capital Gandhinagar. Islam and Hinduism had coexisted here for centuries until a deadly wave of religious violence swept through Gujarat two years ago this week.
Salimbhai, who had been elected the village sarpanch or headman, lost his wife in the carnage - she was beaten to death - and 70 other Muslims from the village were burnt alive by armed Hindu mobs.
In Kidiyad, all that stands of 50 Muslims` homes are their red brick and mud walls. Left untouched are the Hindu houses and cowsheds. In a sign of the divide, Hindus in Kidiyad made it clear that they regarded Muslims partly as the source, not the victim, of the troubles.
``As long as the Muslims can convince us that there will be no problems then we would welcome them back,`` said Nadubhai Ujambhai, a local salesman. The Gujarat violence broke out in February 2002 when a Muslim mob set alight a train carrying Hindu pilgrims on their way back from the site of the destroyed mosque in Ayodhya. The incident, which claimed the lives of 60 worshippers, sparked three weeks of murderous reprisals by Hindu mobs that left more than 1,000 people dead, most of them Muslims.
Many claim the government of the Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata party in Gujarat looked on as Hindu mobs rampaged through the state.
Despite the attacks the BJP, led by Narendra Modi, a hardline preacher turned politician, won a landslide election in the state at the end of 2002. ``The government have not done anything to help us here. The police did not stop anybody. We have had to sell the land we have always lived on and were forced to move to Modasa because it is a Muslim area. We are safe here,`` says Salimbhai.
Distrust
The deep reservoir of distrust and fear among Muslims has led many to live apart from their fellow Gujaratis. Salimbhai says that Muslim children, who used to go to government schools, will now attend a local madrassa to get an ``Islamic`` education. ``Nobody wants to work for a Hindu here. But neither are Hindus willing to give a Muslim a job.``
Human rights groups say the failure of the Gujarat state authorities to hold those responsible for the deaths to account has made it difficult to reconcile the communities. More than 4,250 cases relating to the riots have been registered with the police. Yet in the 24 months since the riots, only 15 Hindus have been convicted. ``We have no faith in the government of Gujarat,`` says Shakeel Ahamad, president of the Islamic relief committee, which is trying to resettle displaced Muslims. ``They are making every effort to hinder the legal process.``
Many trials of Hindus accused of taking part have resulted in acquittals and the Gujarat courts have been criticised by the country`s supreme court. India`s most important judges will this week decide whether to hand over inquiries to central government investigators.
The police deny they are dragging their feet. They insist the difficulty lies in getting people to turn in their neighbours.
Ahmedabad`s Naroda Patia district was the scene of some of the worst atrocities in 2002. Women were raped, others set on fire. Men were clubbed to death. Even today menace hangs in the air. There are 88 police officers on permanent duty to protect the 80 witnesses to events.
Although the state government lodged its ``first information report`` days after the attack in Naroda Patia, legal activists say little has been done to bring the case to court. ``The state is in control of this process ... but the authorities have simply sat on it,`` said Jiteesh Odedra, a researcher for Delhi-based Human Rights Monitor. ``They have joined this case with another 28. Until they arrest all those accused in all the cases, nothing can move forward in Naroda Patia.``
K Nityanandam, spokesman for the Gujarat government`s home affairs ministry, refuted any suggestion that the government is responsible for the delay. ``A few Muslims still do feel alienated but there was no question of the state being involved in what happened. We have to wait for the judicial processes to end.``
#33 Posted by ballukhan on August 8, 2004 1:35:16 am
UrsTruly-
``..The burden of responsibility for the protection of Indian Muslims lies on the shoulders of none other but Pakistani Muslims. We have shirked our responsibility and today hindu has found courage to look into our eyes..........``
``One has to be an animal to kill and be remorseless at the same time. .....``
You are not even powerful enough to determine your own political destiny in your country- So buzz off!
And who has given you this right to self arrogate this responsibility to resolve our issues ? As regards war mongers and riot inciters like you I can only say that I hope the Americans get you before you can raise more jehadis for ``liberating`` India.
``..The burden of responsibility for the protection of Indian Muslims lies on the shoulders of none other but Pakistani Muslims. We have shirked our responsibility and today hindu has found courage to look into our eyes..........``
``One has to be an animal to kill and be remorseless at the same time. .....``
You are not even powerful enough to determine your own political destiny in your country- So buzz off!
And who has given you this right to self arrogate this responsibility to resolve our issues ? As regards war mongers and riot inciters like you I can only say that I hope the Americans get you before you can raise more jehadis for ``liberating`` India.
#32 Posted by Dalit on August 8, 2004 1:35:16 am
#27 by ana
“quite a few christians are treated like dogs. they are given the label chooRa and karanta.”
Like they are called anything different in India!
Here is how Christian Dalits are treated in India:
Despite the fact that ``untouchability`` was abolished under India`s constitution in 1950, the practice of ``untouchability``—the imposition of social disabilities on persons by reason of their birth in certain castes— remains very much a part of rural India. ``Untouchables`` may not cross the line dividing their part of the village from that occupied by higher castes. They may not use the same wells, visit the same temples, drink from the same cups in tea stalls, or lay claim to land that is legally theirs. Dalit children are frequently made to sit in the back of classrooms, and communities as a whole are made to perform degrading rituals in the name of caste.
Most Dalits continue to live in extreme poverty, without land or opportunities for better employment or education. With the exception of a minority who have benefited from India’s policy of quotas in education and government jobs, Dalits are relegated to the most menial of tasks, as manual scavengers, removers of human waste and dead animals, leather workers, street sweepers, and cobblers. Dalit children make up the majority of those sold into bondage to pay off debts to upper-caste creditors. Dalit men, women, and children numbering in the tens of millions work as agricultural laborers for a few kilograms of rice or Rs. 15 to Rs. 35 (US$0.38 to $0.88) a day.
Even in these modern times, all over India the Dalits are still treated as Untouchables in the eyes of the elite and even of the ordinary people. Having undergone three thousand years of slavery and discrimination, the Dalits find it nearly impossible to get out of this terrible trauma. The general situation of Untouchables is miserable but it is all the more wretched in the case of those Untouchables who have become Christians because they now suffer severe discrimination in two ways - in society and in the Church. We identify them as the Dalit Christians. They bear the stigma of untouchability, a nightmare in every-day life.
SOCIAL & POLITICAL CONDITION
The Dalit community is a deeply wounded one, a community that, with the sanction of the prevailing religion, has for centuries been systematically robbed and reduced to a state of empty powerlessness. The caste people on the other hand have risen to power at the cost of the Dalits. The conversion of some Dalits to Christianity has served as a motive for the Government of India to deprive them of those constitutional rights and privileges which are enjoyed by Dalits who are Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist. The Dalit Christians have actually become refugees in their own homeland and in their home church. Dalit Christians represent the victimized masses, completely denied social justice. Against social and economic exploiters, they have no protection. Dalit Christians are the most exploited and oppressed community in India.
PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITION
Centuries of oppression have inflicted on the Dalit people deep psychological wounds, the trauma of low self-esteem.
The Dalit Christians are still carrying the cross of humiliation, exploitation, oppression and subjugation. For example, the Dalit cannot go to the village pump or well to draw water as the other villagers do. A Dalit cannot send his boy or girl to the village school where the other boys and girls of the village go. The Dalit cannot set foot in the temple. Dalit men and women or children may not walk in a street where caste people live. In a village restuarant, a Dalit cannot use the same cup as the caste people. Such constant inhuman treatment has a devastating impact on the psyche. This psychic wound has been inflicted on the Dalits by others.
The cruelty of the caste system is that one is born into that caste - or non-caste, in the case of the Dalit, - and from this there is no escape, ever, no matter what one does or achieves.
In the eyes of the majority people of India, a Dalit, by the fact of birth alone, is forever condemned as an agent of pollution.
“quite a few christians are treated like dogs. they are given the label chooRa and karanta.”
Like they are called anything different in India!
Here is how Christian Dalits are treated in India:
Despite the fact that ``untouchability`` was abolished under India`s constitution in 1950, the practice of ``untouchability``—the imposition of social disabilities on persons by reason of their birth in certain castes— remains very much a part of rural India. ``Untouchables`` may not cross the line dividing their part of the village from that occupied by higher castes. They may not use the same wells, visit the same temples, drink from the same cups in tea stalls, or lay claim to land that is legally theirs. Dalit children are frequently made to sit in the back of classrooms, and communities as a whole are made to perform degrading rituals in the name of caste.
Most Dalits continue to live in extreme poverty, without land or opportunities for better employment or education. With the exception of a minority who have benefited from India’s policy of quotas in education and government jobs, Dalits are relegated to the most menial of tasks, as manual scavengers, removers of human waste and dead animals, leather workers, street sweepers, and cobblers. Dalit children make up the majority of those sold into bondage to pay off debts to upper-caste creditors. Dalit men, women, and children numbering in the tens of millions work as agricultural laborers for a few kilograms of rice or Rs. 15 to Rs. 35 (US$0.38 to $0.88) a day.
Even in these modern times, all over India the Dalits are still treated as Untouchables in the eyes of the elite and even of the ordinary people. Having undergone three thousand years of slavery and discrimination, the Dalits find it nearly impossible to get out of this terrible trauma. The general situation of Untouchables is miserable but it is all the more wretched in the case of those Untouchables who have become Christians because they now suffer severe discrimination in two ways - in society and in the Church. We identify them as the Dalit Christians. They bear the stigma of untouchability, a nightmare in every-day life.
SOCIAL & POLITICAL CONDITION
The Dalit community is a deeply wounded one, a community that, with the sanction of the prevailing religion, has for centuries been systematically robbed and reduced to a state of empty powerlessness. The caste people on the other hand have risen to power at the cost of the Dalits. The conversion of some Dalits to Christianity has served as a motive for the Government of India to deprive them of those constitutional rights and privileges which are enjoyed by Dalits who are Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist. The Dalit Christians have actually become refugees in their own homeland and in their home church. Dalit Christians represent the victimized masses, completely denied social justice. Against social and economic exploiters, they have no protection. Dalit Christians are the most exploited and oppressed community in India.
PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITION
Centuries of oppression have inflicted on the Dalit people deep psychological wounds, the trauma of low self-esteem.
The Dalit Christians are still carrying the cross of humiliation, exploitation, oppression and subjugation. For example, the Dalit cannot go to the village pump or well to draw water as the other villagers do. A Dalit cannot send his boy or girl to the village school where the other boys and girls of the village go. The Dalit cannot set foot in the temple. Dalit men and women or children may not walk in a street where caste people live. In a village restuarant, a Dalit cannot use the same cup as the caste people. Such constant inhuman treatment has a devastating impact on the psyche. This psychic wound has been inflicted on the Dalits by others.
The cruelty of the caste system is that one is born into that caste - or non-caste, in the case of the Dalit, - and from this there is no escape, ever, no matter what one does or achieves.
In the eyes of the majority people of India, a Dalit, by the fact of birth alone, is forever condemned as an agent of pollution.
#31 Posted by nb on August 8, 2004 1:35:16 am
urstruly, and this is the tolerance you profess?
chowk editors, i can`t blame the author, who obviously knows no better. can you please tell me on what crieria you chose to publish this article? even the description of rape is ridiculous, intended to tiltillate. the kama sutra is all about seduction, not brute force.
chowk editors, i can`t blame the author, who obviously knows no better. can you please tell me on what crieria you chose to publish this article? even the description of rape is ridiculous, intended to tiltillate. the kama sutra is all about seduction, not brute force.
#30 Posted by plats8 on August 8, 2004 1:35:16 am
Chowk Editors,
What exactly were you thinking while publishing this article ? I am really curious.
Urstruly #28,
``It is us who have to dig a peaceful dwelling for the Muslims of Hindustan
with our swords.``
You still plan to fight with swords ? Then what are all the Ghaznis and Hatf`s
for ? I realise that puny Hindus would shudder just looking at you; why
waste all the money on them missiles ?
``That was a painful read``...you bet. One of the worst in recent times.
Ana #27,
1983/1984/Indira Gandhi...let it go. Our dear author is a little creative with
facts. Several others bloopers have been pointed out, but he marches on
un-inhibited.
Ballukhan #20,
Nikhil Banerjee`s alaaps are perhaps the best I have heard on sitar. He inherited
Ali Akbar`s creativity, after all.
Hamid_81,
Reappearing as gearhead, I see. Well, well...
What exactly were you thinking while publishing this article ? I am really curious.
Urstruly #28,
``It is us who have to dig a peaceful dwelling for the Muslims of Hindustan
with our swords.``
You still plan to fight with swords ? Then what are all the Ghaznis and Hatf`s
for ? I realise that puny Hindus would shudder just looking at you; why
waste all the money on them missiles ?
``That was a painful read``...you bet. One of the worst in recent times.
Ana #27,
1983/1984/Indira Gandhi...let it go. Our dear author is a little creative with
facts. Several others bloopers have been pointed out, but he marches on
un-inhibited.
Ballukhan #20,
Nikhil Banerjee`s alaaps are perhaps the best I have heard on sitar. He inherited
Ali Akbar`s creativity, after all.
Hamid_81,
Reappearing as gearhead, I see. Well, well...
#29 Posted by Urstruly on August 7, 2004 11:10:19 pm
Hamid Bhai
That was a painful read but I must commend you for bringing out the animal that lives inside these people as it is also evident from their responses. One has to be an animal to kill and be remorseless at the same time.
#28 Posted by Urstruly on August 7, 2004 11:04:36 pm
India is nothing but a squalid hellhole for Muslims - the ninth circle of hell. Hindus are remorseless and amoral murderers and lack self-respect and do not know how to respect another human being. The burden of responsibility for the protection of Indian Muslims lies on the shoulders of none other but Pakistani Muslims. We have shirked our responsibility and today hindu has found courage to look into our eyes. The natrural border of Pakistan goes to the West bank of River Ganges. Hindus will have to go to nepal or thailand if they want to live in peace. It is us who have to dig a peaceful dwelling for the Muslims of Hindustan with our swords.
#27 Posted by ana on August 7, 2004 9:39:26 pm
okay if we really want to get into what is a place and is not place for someone, then pakistan is no place for non-muslims. as a non-muslim, i know that only too well.
quite a few christians are treated like dogs. they are given the label chooRa and karanta. they are killed. period. what makes pakistan a place for us? more importantly, who decides? should we have our christian neighbors from india telling us that pakistan is no place for us? or any other christians for that matter? i don`t think so.
that the writer`s feelings towards hindus have already been expressed before is clear. that this story is not about music is also clear. and the writer`s responses back that up. it is not anyone`s place really to tell someone where they belong and where they don`t. and people living in sheeshay ke ghar really should not throw stones. . .
oh and by the way hamid, you really do need to learn more about india if you so care to. . .the sikh massacres took place in 1984 following the assassination of indira gandhi, not 1983 as you point out. and there are many sikhs who still live in india. there are hundreds of pakistani christians living all over the world. . particularly in inglistan and amreeka. why is that? more importantly, why are all your muslim brothers and sisters leaving?
your LOL`s by the way are way too loud and not even funny.
and jawahara, just in case you weren`t aware. . .the person with the moniker `dalit` is actually a pakistani who is well on the way to becoming the new 12-head. you remember that character(s) don`t you? i wouldn`t pay much attention to anything he says.
oh and chowk editors. . .how good does this make us pakistanis look? (one of the editors will hopefully understand the reference :) ).
quite a few christians are treated like dogs. they are given the label chooRa and karanta. they are killed. period. what makes pakistan a place for us? more importantly, who decides? should we have our christian neighbors from india telling us that pakistan is no place for us? or any other christians for that matter? i don`t think so.
that the writer`s feelings towards hindus have already been expressed before is clear. that this story is not about music is also clear. and the writer`s responses back that up. it is not anyone`s place really to tell someone where they belong and where they don`t. and people living in sheeshay ke ghar really should not throw stones. . .
oh and by the way hamid, you really do need to learn more about india if you so care to. . .the sikh massacres took place in 1984 following the assassination of indira gandhi, not 1983 as you point out. and there are many sikhs who still live in india. there are hundreds of pakistani christians living all over the world. . particularly in inglistan and amreeka. why is that? more importantly, why are all your muslim brothers and sisters leaving?
your LOL`s by the way are way too loud and not even funny.
and jawahara, just in case you weren`t aware. . .the person with the moniker `dalit` is actually a pakistani who is well on the way to becoming the new 12-head. you remember that character(s) don`t you? i wouldn`t pay much attention to anything he says.
oh and chowk editors. . .how good does this make us pakistanis look? (one of the editors will hopefully understand the reference :) ).
#26 Posted by JohnGalt on August 7, 2004 9:39:25 pm
Hamidm_81,
For your kind information,
Damn it.. I am too tired to degnify this with a response...
Anyway, I hope you are happy now that your article has been published. Cheers !
For your kind information,
Damn it.. I am too tired to degnify this with a response...
Anyway, I hope you are happy now that your article has been published. Cheers !
#25 Posted by bongdongs on August 7, 2004 8:58:37 pm
One man who`s life`s story has really touched me:
Ustad Allauddin Khan, Ravi Shankar`s Guru
http://www.indianmelody.com/allauddinarticle1.htm
Ustad Allauddin Khan, Ravi Shankar`s Guru
http://www.indianmelody.com/allauddinarticle1.htm
#24 Posted by bongdongs on August 7, 2004 8:58:37 pm
This is the page I was loking for:
Ustad Allauddin Khan
http://music.calarts.edu/~bansuri/pages/allaudin.html
Ustad Allauddin Khan
http://music.calarts.edu/~bansuri/pages/allaudin.html
#23 Posted by halur on August 7, 2004 8:58:37 pm
Stay away from this one, folks. Nothing to be gained by debating a hate filled person..
#22 Posted by hamid_81 on August 7, 2004 8:58:37 pm
Jawahara. Just one question. How does it feel to be the citizen of a country which is part of the only three countries in the world working against Muslims? How does it feel to be a citizen of a country which supports Israel, against Muslims? You must feel very happy going to bed thinking that your tax money to your government goes to Israel so it can slay Muslims. Muslims like you should be ashamed of your nationality. Muslims like you should go and visit Palestine and then decide whether to go back to India and be proud to call yourself Hindustani. Thoo!
And again, Pakistan is no place for Hindus. If they want to they can go to India. We haven`t stopped them. And secondly they are NOT a opressed minority the way Muslims are in India. Sikhs come to Pakistan for Yatra every year and we provide for their saftey and not even one incident happens. In India, Muslims are killed more than the stray dogs. So please, stop yapping about Indian Muslims. And yes I have been to India and seen the condition of the Indian Muslims. I have been to Ajmer Sharif, to pay my respects, to Khawaja Moinuddin Chhishti, and been to Delhi, to pay my respects to Khawaja Nizamuddin Auliya. I have seen the fear the Indian Muslims live in. The fear of death. The fear that they will be killed and slaughtered. During the last riots, I almost cried, after seeing a picture of a Muslim man standing on the roof of his house, his hands clasped in front of him, begging the Hindus standing down to not burn his house and family. But they did. So probably that poor Muslims is dead somewhere buried (hopefully) if they found his charred remains. And I bet one day, that will be the fate of all the Muslims in India, thanks to Mr. Baal Thakray, without whose support no government in India can survive. So please, don`t tell me how good the life is in India. I know.
One more thing, all the human rights violation in Kashmir, done by your army, what about that? Are they ever going to be held accountable for that. You must be very proud, to be a part of a nation whose soldiers rape 8years-80years old Muslim Women in Kashmir. Well, a 25 year old might carry a gun, can be a terrorist, so I understand that they rape her. They are Indians, logically to them it is correct. But and 80year old? Does that make sense? Well, probably to Indians it might.
And again, Pakistan is no place for Hindus. If they want to they can go to India. We haven`t stopped them. And secondly they are NOT a opressed minority the way Muslims are in India. Sikhs come to Pakistan for Yatra every year and we provide for their saftey and not even one incident happens. In India, Muslims are killed more than the stray dogs. So please, stop yapping about Indian Muslims. And yes I have been to India and seen the condition of the Indian Muslims. I have been to Ajmer Sharif, to pay my respects, to Khawaja Moinuddin Chhishti, and been to Delhi, to pay my respects to Khawaja Nizamuddin Auliya. I have seen the fear the Indian Muslims live in. The fear of death. The fear that they will be killed and slaughtered. During the last riots, I almost cried, after seeing a picture of a Muslim man standing on the roof of his house, his hands clasped in front of him, begging the Hindus standing down to not burn his house and family. But they did. So probably that poor Muslims is dead somewhere buried (hopefully) if they found his charred remains. And I bet one day, that will be the fate of all the Muslims in India, thanks to Mr. Baal Thakray, without whose support no government in India can survive. So please, don`t tell me how good the life is in India. I know.
One more thing, all the human rights violation in Kashmir, done by your army, what about that? Are they ever going to be held accountable for that. You must be very proud, to be a part of a nation whose soldiers rape 8years-80years old Muslim Women in Kashmir. Well, a 25 year old might carry a gun, can be a terrorist, so I understand that they rape her. They are Indians, logically to them it is correct. But and 80year old? Does that make sense? Well, probably to Indians it might.
#21 Posted by hamid_81 on August 7, 2004 8:58:36 pm
Fortunately, I have found the URL to support my claim in the last interact. Jawahara tell me what you make of this:
http://paknews.com/PrintPage.php?id=1&date1=2002-03-01&news2=letters1
Dread the day when one of your family member will be standing on your rooftop and asking your beloved Hindus to not burn you and your family.
http://paknews.com/PrintPage.php?id=1&date1=2002-03-01&news2=letters1
Dread the day when one of your family member will be standing on your rooftop and asking your beloved Hindus to not burn you and your family.
#20 Posted by ballukhan on August 7, 2004 8:58:36 pm
``LOL. ....... I guess the next Holucaust would be in India, and we will happily watch it on TV.
Hamid81 alias Barachota- You have shown your true character by scoffing and viling the IM. By your LOL-s you have shown your vileness before all the Indians. You are perverted enough to laugh at the miseries of riot victims and want the IM to suffer in more riots. I bet next time you would be sending a contingent of jehadis to incite more people through your propoganda and arm them for more `retaliations` so that you can watch the fun of more riots on the TV?
Shame on you!!
P.S- Regarding Rasi Khan Saheb- at times his taans sound as if an ``intoxicated mouse is jumping on the strings of Santoor`` - (If I may quote a very respectable Ustad.). And this obsession with fast taans is an aberration- go and listen to his alaaps carefully which are absolutely dud- come to India and learn some more from various other masters than trying to live in your hole!!
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