Bhaiya, Malhar Sunao

``Indian Muslims, are a parasite in India and treated such as well. Accept it.``

HAHAHA!! Again Hamid shows his true colors towards Indian Muslims. Can there be proof that no one is a bigger enemy for Indian Muslims then Pakistanis.

Pakistanis hate Indian Muslims for the latter deny the basis of Pakistan by their very Existence!!

Obviously Pakistan cannot accept more Indian Muslims as proved by their inability to accept even Biharis from Bangladesh who were loyal to them in war.

Hence Pakistanis desperately wish for all Iindian Muslims to be liquidated in a Holocaust as that would conclusivly prove the veracity of Two Nation Theory.

Lekin Afsos, aisa nahi hoga. Indian Muslims will prosper in India Inshallah while in Pakistan Sipah e Sahaba, Tehriq eJafria, Barelvis, Deobandis will kill each other.

The Prosperity and Success of Indian Muslims is the biggest stake through the heart of Pakistani Nationalism. HAHAHA!!

Hamid_81

``Stuka. You Madar Chood. Just shut up and go F..ck yourself. S.O.B Fu..king Indian. ``

HAHAHA!! Did your mom get screwed by a pig? HAHA!! Did you get buggered up the butt by your local Maulvi when you were 12 years old. Oye send you mom and sisters to me and I will show them some real Indian loving. In any case I have a bit of a passion for Gori Chitti Paki babes. HAHAH!!

I am against banning any interactor or deleting any article. We are all naked in this Hamam in a manner of speaking. Indians should show similar outrage about banning fellow Indians who cross bounds or keep their peace.

hamid_81 - man, regardless of whether people think your story is well written or badly written, you have done a great service by bringing to the forefront the situation of Muslims in India. So please stay cool headed in your interacts, respond with the arguments and not reciprocate by using cuss words. Good job!!

Dost-Mittar - your post was very balanced and realist. Hamid has merely stated what an overwhelming majority of Pakistanis think to be the case.

#75 by chulbuliimli

I am definetly leaving the Indian muslims alone. As Iqbal said, that if a notion doesn`t want to change itself, then nobody else can change it. Indian Muslims, are a parasite in India and treated such as well. Accept it. Indian Muslims, instead of getting furious, should be pitiful of their condition. Living as taritors in their own land, living in the fear of death. It is all true. I feel for some of them, because they are really opressed. I donate money to charities to help Muslims all around the world and donated generoulsy to Gujrat Relief Fund. I teach Muslim children Music, Computers, Math and English for free one day a week.Thsi story is a true incident, that I heard from one of my students. Of course I changed the names and the description. But this really happened. This happens every day in India. It is a reality. Face it. But telling me that things like that don`t happen, or a Pakistani shouldn`t write things like these, is just stupid. The whole world is going to write about Muslims in India, and what a filthy disease they are considered in the land which they render their homeland.
As I writer I am going to write about these events because I am disturbed about these events. I hate to see people with the same religion as mine suffer. And countless times Indian Muslims must have raised thier heads and asked Allah that He should have created them in some other part of the world. If not the rich interactors like you, then the poor village folk. Don`t tell me they haven`t. How many of the interactors families have been killed or burned? That is the reason why you are far away from feeling the pain the people who go through this do. So it is easy for you to disregard my comments. But the innocent village folk, who have been tortured and killed and raped. If one of them read this, they would say that yes they probably felt this everyday.
As for stupid and idiotic things like saying that I should go and look at Pakistan and should not throw stones while living in glass house, you idiot go and read my previous articles. This is the first time I have written about India and surely not the last.

ballukhan: You still haven`t replied to my question. How many times do you eat beef? And where do you get it from. You do know beef is very important if you want to keep playing those taans.

Thanks foad_shah and ELUSIVE

Lastly, I apologize for using foul language earlier. This DOES NOT mean I apologize to ana or stuka. I aplogoize to the other interactors for the just the ``usage`` of such language.

ana:
``i am well aware of what chootiapa literally stands for. . .and i owe this not to unplugged but my `real` punjabi friends. LOL. ``

No, ana, punjabis use a different word and it starts with `p`. I`m glad you don`t know it, shows you still have some innocence:-)

This article may not have been written in the best possible way and the adjectives used may be unfuitting BUT the author has only presented the TRUTH.I think all interactors should accept it. India is not heaven or utopia for Muslims, just as Pakistan currently is not safe for non-Muslims, but then Pakistan, currently is not safe also for Muslims. Even we, the majority in Pakistan have more of a risk of being killed in a terrorist attack than non-Muslims.

If one says that such atrocites on a mass scale have not been carried out in India then that would be lying and deceiving the world. The whole world is clear about the manslaughter of Muslims in Gujrat and all Hindu interactors should accept it. As a famous comedian once put it, `` i am not saying that all the Muslims living in India are not happy, but the ones who are, are only Sharukh , Saif and Salman Khan.`` heheheh.

So i guess the Muslims not residing in the state of Gujrat have no real issues .


++++

It was further a shock to see some interactors use foul language. Mature individuals don`t prove their point with filth but with rationale.

THE STATE OF MUSLIMS IN iNDIA

Asma Yaqoob

The communal frenzy in undivided and divided India was generated either by the desire to control political power or capture economic resources. A large number of communal riots in post-partition India take place in regions where Hindu-Muslim economic and political competition is intense

The general perception about Indian Muslims in Pakistan is that a beleaguered community with little socio-economic power and even fewer rights. However, this generalisation glosses over the complexities of the Muslims’ situation in India. A closer study suggests the Indian Muslims constitute a distinct and important community in India’s multi-cultural milieu. Post-partition, Islam remains the strongest force informing the Indian Muslims’ philosophy of life. Some of the more pressing issues facing the community include the Muslim personal law, better management of their waqf boards and schools, liberalisation of madrassas, equitable share in government jobs, empowerment through education and greater respect for their religious values in society.

Competition between the elites of the Hindu and Muslim communities for power sharing bestowed the legacy of communalism or conflict of interests to India in the post-partition period. Religion has merely been an instrument in the hands of the leaders. The communal frenzy in undivided and divided India was either about winning political power or controlling economic resources.

Indian as well as international writers have highlighted the fact that a large number of communal riots in post-partition India have taken place in regions where Hindu-Muslim economic and political competition is intense. For example, some districts in Western UP where 20 per cent of the population is Muslim, and where a new Muslim entrepreneur class is emerging, have experienced more Hindu-Muslim conflicts than other areas in India. There is compelling evidence that the recent Gujarat carnage was a ploy by Indian extremist groups to wreak havoc on the prosperous Muslim community of Gujarat.

One can offer two hypotheses about the economic and political condition of Muslims in India: the discrimination faced by Muslims at both the official and societal levels and the Indian Muslims’ isolation from the national mainstream. The first is more perceptible while the second is generally overlooked. The mass migration of people, largely from north India to Pakistan at the time of partition left Indian Muslims not only without any educated and strong middle class of Muslim entrepreneurs but also resulted in a leadership vacuum.

One cannot blame the Hindus and successive governments’ discriminating policies against Muslims for the latter’s poor socio-economic conditions. The Muslims’ relatively poor performance in economic and political spheres is largely due to their seclusion from the larger Indian community. This has been aggravated by the kind of leadership they have had since partition. However, in post-partition India, Muslims have shown increasing independence in their political choices. Their voting pattern is largely determined by their uneven distribution of population throughout the country. But their votebank can impact electoral results. According to one estimate, there are about 50 constituencies in India where Muslims can influence the electoral outcome. For example, in Assam and Kerala where Muslims are present in substantial numbers, the Muslim vote is of real consequence.

Muslims in India have varied party affiliations largely determined by the pressing socio-economic problems and political aspirations in different states. A recent report in Muslim India (March 2002) indicates that ‘since independence Muslims have generally voted for non-Muslim candidates of one secular party or another and for different secular parties in different states and — they have accepted non-Muslim national leaders as their leaders — ‘ Since the late 1980s, Indian Muslims have adopted the strategy of ‘tactical voting’ — not joining any political party en masse, but voting for a candidate they think is capable of defeating the BJP.

On the whole, however, the picture remains dismal as Muslims’ share of positions in prestigious services, political institutes and corporate sectors of India is far less than their proportion of national population. Muslim representation in Indian Administrative Services (IAS) is below three per cent as against their population of 12.12 per cent, according to the last available census figures of 1991. The total percentage of Muslim MPs in Lok Sabha was 5.87 per cent on June 30, 2000. The marginal representation of Muslims in the Union cabinet means that they are unable to defend their community’s interests.

According to a study conducted by Omar Khalidi, in the past fifty years or more, no Muslim has been given the important central portfolios of defence and finance. The majority of the nearly 25 Muslim cabinet ministers appointed in the last 53 years were given portfolios that were not finance-related and, therefore, unimportant to the business of the state.

Although one cannot overlook the contribution of Muslims today in sports, the Indian film industry etc, if an all-India balance-sheet were drawn up, Muslims would appear to be losing out. The dilemma faced by present-day Indian Muslims is that they are deeply concerned about their status in the mainstream society; at the same time they want to protect their interests as a community (protection of life and property during communal riots, prevention of discrimination in educational and economic opportunities, preservation and perpetuation of personal law, protection of mosques and religious sites from encroachment) in the face of the mounting tide of Hindutva.

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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_21-10-2003_pg3_4

``....chowk has the good sense to show what is going on in the so-called brilliant minds of men and women here. they should be commended for this.... ``

Chowk Staff : I am sure somebody in the editorial is also enjoying the `fun` by not intervening.

This guy is a fake. Artistes are above petty politics and religious divide. They do not spew venom. And they are never discourteous towards women, mind you.
He would do well to mind the mess his home country is in than worry about others.
On what basis does he (and the others like him) wish to come to the rescue of prosecuted Indian Muslims?
If his country is such a haven, then what is he doing abroad?
Indian Muslims would prefer to be prosecuted on religious differences in India than by one of their own. Somebody please inform this guy about ‘honour killings’, sectarian violence and hatred and ‘cleansing’ that is so rampant in his country. How often the zamindars of his land perform the kama sutra on hapless girls, of their own religion, is a common knowledge. So what is the guy whining about?
Indian Muslim interactors are not squirming about what he has written; they are furious about his audacity to throw stones while living in a glass house.
Bachey, concentrate on your studies, then your riyaz. Leave Indian Muslims to themselves; they can take care of themselves. Even if they can’t, you needn’t lose your sleep over their fate. Worry about your future first. Try to make it in the country you so passionately created for yourself instead of seeking greener pastures in foreign lands. You know, what people like you are termed here?
Aww, forget it…

FOR THE MAJORITY OF HINDUS WHO BELIEVE THAT MUSLIMS ARE WELL TREATED IN INDIA, HISTORY SPEAKS DIFFERENTLY.

THE HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH IN INDIA SPEAKS OTHERWISE. IT WAS NOT JUST GUJURAT WHERE MUSLIMS WERE RUTHLESSLY MASSACERED. NOTE THE FOLLOWING:

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THE AHMEDABAD MASSACRES: Naroda Patia and Gulmarg Society
Naroda Patia and Gulmarg Society were the site of two of the deadliest massacres in Ahmedabad. Human Rights Watch visited both sites and interviewed numerous eyewitnesses to the attacks who have since been residing in relief camps. Some of their testimony is included below.

Naroda Patia
Located just across the road from the State Reserve Police (SRP) quarters, Naroda Patia was the site of some of the most brutal attacks in Ahmedabad. On February 28 at least sixty-five people were killed by a 5,000-strong mob that torched the entire locality within minutes. Countless others sustained severe burns and other injuries. Women and girls were gang-raped in public view before being hacked and burned to death. Homes were looted and burned while the community mosque, the Noorani Masjid, was destroyed using exploding gas cylinders. Extensive use and access to Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) cylinders has also been cited as evidence of official collusion.24

Naroda Patia used to be a mixed community of Hindus and Muslims. The nearly one thousand Muslims were in a minority and lived in a slum facing the state transport workshop.25 Most surviving Muslim residents are now scattered in relief camps.

In the days that followed February 28, hundreds of youths brandishing swords, daggers, axes, and iron rods were seen shouting ``Jai Shri Ram`` and roaming roads lined with gutted shops and littered with burned trucks, rickshaws, and other vehicles.26

Human Rights Watch visited Naroda Patia three weeks after the attacks. The Muslim homes were completely burned while the Hindu homes stood unscathed. The area`s mosque, the Noorani Masjid, just across the road from the SRP post, had also been destroyed. According to one human rights activist who visited the site of the burned mosque soon after the attacks, at least sixteen gas cylinders, used as explosive devices, remained inside the mosque.27

A thirteen-year-old boy described the role of the police during the attack:

The police was with them. The police killed seventeen- and eighteen-year-olds. The mob also burned down our home. At 10 a.m. they went after our mosque. Thirty to forty tear gas shells were released by the police as we, about fifty boys, were trying to save the mosque.... They killed one seventeen-year-old and eight to ten other boys were injured.... We kept calling the police but no one came.... The police would pick up the phone and hang up when they heard it was from Naroda Patia.

Another eyewitness interviewed by Human Rights Watch added: ``When we tried to run, the police started firing. It was morning time. Many were hiding in Masjid Chali [lane]. We came here [to the camp] early on the morning of March 2.``

Fifty-five-year-old Salima Banu, a resident of Naroda Patia was a witness as her son was shot and killed by the police:

My son was running to save his life and the police shot him. Our home was behind Noorani Masjid. They were coming to set the mosque on fire. Then we started running. A bullet hit my son`s arm and then his stomach. No one was answering the police phone. The police took their side and not ours. My son`s name was Shafiq. He was eighteen years old... No one came to help. He was suffering so much. His arm fell off. I have received nothing from the government.... So many people are also missing. Some have lost their mother, their son, their father.

Samuda Bhen, a mother of two, lost all her valuables in the looting and burning on February 28 and the days that followed and identified members of the Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena, and the police as the main culprits:

They took my daughter`s dowry. This is my daughter [she pointed to her]. She is seventeen. Her name is Mumtaz. She was supposed to get married. Now the groom won`t come. They also burned my son`s rickshaw. They burned everything after we left. During the attack they were screaming ``Kill them. Cut them.`` We left on March 1. We stayed at home until then. The police sided with them. They were Bajrang Dal people. They were wearing saffron bandannas. There were also Shiv Sena people. First the police came, they searched the mosque, they were checking for weapons to see if it was safe for the others to come. Then the others came. The police station is right near us. The police was with them for three full days. We kept telling them to help us.

Forty-year-old Naseem Banu told us: ``Wherever we hid, the police showed them where we were. The police remained standing when our homes were burned down.``

ATTACKS ON WOMEN

Naroda Patia residents interviewed by Human Rights Watch also witnessed rapes and other forms of sexual violence against Muslim women and girls during the attacks.

A female eyewitness told Human Rights Watch, ``they raped them, cut them and then threw them in a well. They cut them with swords. Everything is gone, you won`t even find dogs there.``33 Samuda also witnessed the raping and killing of young girls: ``They took young girls, raped them, cut them and then they burned them.``34 Others simply did not have the words to describe the attack: ``You won`t be able to bear it if we tell you. They are scared, they won`t speak, people have been asking for days what happened. What difference has it made? We don`t want to go back there. Our lives are in danger there [Naroda Patia].... We won`t go back to Patia; we will go anywhere else. We even left without our shoes, all our hard-earned saving are gone.``35 One female resident said, ``Some girls even threw themselves into the fire, so as not to get raped.``36 A ten-year-old girl added, ``I saw it also, they cut them down the middle.``

Testimonies collected by the Citizens` Initiative, a coalition of over twenty-five NGOs, and submitted to the National Human Rights Commission are replete with incidents of gang rapes of Muslim girls and women and the role of the police during the attacks, particularly in Naroda Patia. These testimonies are cited as transcribed by the Citizens` Initiative. A resident of Naroda Patia, Ahmedabad testified that eight out of eleven family members were killed on February 28, two after being raped. The surviving three members sustained serious injuries:

It was morning and I was cooking. My husband, my three children and I were in my house while my mother-in-law, my brother-in-law and his wife along with their three children was in the adjoining house. A mob of 5,000 came and we started running. We were cornered from all the sides. SRP (State Reserve Police) personnel were also chasing us. It was 6:30 by now in the evening. The mob caught hold of my husband and hit him on his head twice with the sword. They threw petrol in his eyes and then burned him. My sister-in-law was stripped and raped. She had a three-month baby in her lap. They threw petrol on her and the child from her lap was thrown in the fire. My brother-in-law was hit in the head with the sword and he died on the spot. His six-year-old daughter was also hit with the sword and thrown in the fire. My mother-in-law had with her the grandson who was four years of age and he was burnt too. We were that time hiding on the terrace of a building. My mother-in-law with her heavy body was unable to climb the stairs so she was on the ground. My mother-in-law told them to take away whatever money she had but to spare the children. They took away all the money and jewelry and burnt the children with petrol. ([My] mother-in-law was raped too). I witnessed all this. Unmarried girls from my street were stripped, raped and burnt. A 14-year-old such girl was killed by piercing an iron rod in her stomach. All this ended at 2:30 A.M. The ambulance came on the scene and I sat in it along with the bodies of my husband and children. I have injury marks on both my thighs and left hand that was caused by the police beating. My husband, my daughter and son had 48%, 95% and 15% burns respectively. Both my husband and daughter died in the hospital after three days.... The police was on the spot but helping the mob. We fell in their feet but they said they were ordered from above (not to help). Since the telephone wires were snapped we could not inform the fire brigade.

Like hundreds of others, a resident of Naroda Patia witnessed the gang rape of girls and women. The names of the victims have been omitted to protect their privacy:

We were cooking and were informed to be in the house only as there was tension in the area. We went to the nearby society [neighborhood] and took shelter on the terrace. People from the Hindu society told us to take shelter in their houses. There were only men in there and none of the women and children. Then they told us to escape towards Naroda (an area). We requested them to allow us escape towards the SRP (colony). SRP said, ``24 hours have been given to beat you up.`` Society (place of refuge) brought us out on the road and told us to go to Naroda. We disagreed knowing that it is a far place. So they started beating us with sticks, hockey sticks and pipes. They accused us that we had come there to riot and asked us to get out. We came out to face a big mob armed with sharp weapons, kerosene and petrol cans.... All adult males were then beaten, fallen on the ground and burnt. The residents of the gopinath society [neighborhood] segregated young girls (Muslims) and made them stand on one side. They were raped and we watched this as some of us were on the terrace.

We were 400-500 people on the terrace.... The girls were stripped and then two men held them down by legs and arms. Those who raped were 20-25 in number. The girls screamed so loud that even now when I remember my blood boils.

They [the attackers] were given twenty-four-hours time (to beat us). If we were given even two hours time we would have shown them (dealt with them). I know the face of the persons who raped. The rape started at 6:00 in the evening until 9:00 at night. The girls were then burnt. I still remember their loud screams. When Asif Khan, a 25-year-old youth pleaded SRP to let us go he was beaten up badly and he managed with difficulty to get out of their hold. We can identify the SRP men. We can also identify the residents of gopinath society.... 11 of our youth died in private gun firing.

GULMARG SOCIETY

In the neighborhood of Gulmarg Society, Chamanpura, Ahmedabad, over 250 people took refuge on the morning of February 28 in the home of Muslim Ehsan Jaffrey, a former member of parliament. An ordeal that began at 10:30 a.m. ended seven hours later and left at least sixty-five dead, including Jaffrey himself, who was hacked and burned to death. The closest police station was less than a kilometer away. The two Ahmedabad Home Guards already stationed at Jaffrey`s home only had sticks as weapons and according to eyewitnesses interviewed by Human Rights Watch provided no protection; one said the guards ``were watching and laughing as the attacks took place.``

In a petition submitted to the NHRC, the Citizens` Initiative stated that the mob, estimated at 5,000, had grown since morning in Gulmarg Society. Jaffrey made countless phone calls to the police, the chief minister, and the central home minister among others asking for protection but to no avail. The telephone lines were cut after the neighborhood`s homes were set on fire. Armed with swords, pipes, acid bottles, kerosene, petrol, hockey sticks, stones, and trishuls, the mob was unrestrained for six hours. Among the perpetrators identified were workers and local officials of the VHP and Bajrang Dal.41

Thirty-eight-year-old Mehboob Mansoori lost eighteen family members in the attack at Gulmarg Society. He described the day`s sequence of events to Human Rights Watch (full testimony in introduction):

They burnt my whole family.

At 10:30 a.m. the stone throwing started. First there were 200 people then 500 from all over, then more. We were 200-250 people. We threw stones in self-defense. They had swords, pipes, soda-lemon bottles, sharp weapons, petrol, kerosene, and gas cylinders. They began shouting, `Maro, kato,` [Kill them, cut them] and ``Mian ko maro.`` (Kill the Muslims). I hid on the third floor.

Early in the day at 10:30 the police commissioner came over and said don`t worry. He spoke to Jaffrey and said something would work out then left. The name of the commissioner of police that visited in the morning is P.C. Pandey, commissioner of police Ahmedabad....

At 3:30 p.m. they started cutting people up, and by 4:30 p.m. it was game over. Ehsan Jaffrey was also killed. He was holding the door closed. Then the door broke down. They pulled him out and hit him with a sword across the forehead, then across the stomach, then on his legs.... They then took him on the road, poured kerosene on him and burned him. There was no police at all. If they were there then this wouldn`t have happened.

Eighteen people from my family died. All the women died. My brother, my three sons, one girl, my wife`s mother, they all died. My boys were aged ten, eight, and six. My girl was twelve years old. The bodies were piled up. I recognized them from parts of their clothes used for identification. They first cut them and then burned them. Other girls were raped, cut, and burned. First they took their jewelry, I was watching from upstairs. I saw it with my own eyes. If I had come outside, I would also have been killed. Four or five girls were treated this way. Two married women also were raped and cut. Some on the hand, some on the neck.

Fifty-three-year-old Mansoori Abdulbhai, also a resident of Gulmarg Society, Chamanpura lost nineteen family members in the attack. He told Human Rights Watch:

Nineteen members of my family were killed. My wife, my mother, my son, my daughters-in-law, my brother`s daughter-in-law, and others. We found fourteen of the bodies, five are still missing. Those fourteen are buried here [at a mass grave site next to the Dariyakhan Ghummat camp in Shahibaug]. Sixty-two people were killed there, twenty-nine bodies have not been found. First they cut people so they couldn`t run and then they set them on fire. One or two women were taken aside and gang-raped. After five hours the police came and brought us here. It was so well planned. We buried fourteen members of my family here on March 7.

As with Naroda Patia, even pregnant women were not spared. The husband of an eighteen-year-old woman and resident of Gulmarg Society, Chamanpura told the Citizens` Initiative: ``She was pregnant and it was the 9th month of the pregnancy. Her house was attacked by a large mob. Her womb was cut open with a sharp weapon and the unborn baby was taken out and both mother and the child were burnt dead.``

Sixty-year-old Rosam Bibi, who used to live in Vijay Mill, Naroda side, also fled to Ehsan Jaffrey`s home for refuge: ``We went to Ehsan Jaffrey`s home on the 28th.. I was on the ground floor. The mob came in and threw petrol and started a fire. There was heavy smoke. They told us to give them our jewelry. They took everything. Then they hit everyone and I got burned. Then they pulled people outside and cut them and burned them.``

Bibi`s eighteen-year-old son, Ilias Bhai, added: ``At 10:30 a.m. the stone throwing began, we got surrounded. They were shouting `Ram, Ram, Jai Ram` [Ram, Ram, Praise Ram].... My brother and sister-in-law were both killed.``

Twenty-three-year-old Rasida Bhen, Ilias`s wife, still bore visible head injuries at the time of the interview with Human Rights Watch. She spoke to Human Rights Watch about the murder of her husband`s brother and his wife, twenty-three-year-old Aslam Usman Bhai, and twenty-one-year-old Naseem Bano:

They pulled them out and cut them up. When we came out then we saw that he was cut in the stomach, the chest and the head. They came with trishuls. My sister-in-law was burnt. First they took her jewelry. Then took her into the kitchen and exploded the gas cylinder. They wanted to get rid of all the evidence. They had been married for fifteen months and she was five months pregnant.47

Referring to attacks on other women, Rasida added:

First they took everyone`s jewelry. Then they raped the women, then they cut them up, and then they burned them. They should get as strict a punishment as possible.... I was hit with a pipe. We ran outside when the gas cylinder exploded and then later the police came and we left.

A forty-five-year-old man named Yousuf Bhai told Human Rights Watch that the police commissioner ``betrayed`` the victims:

They wanted to leave by the railroad behind Jaffrey`s house, but the police commissioner said, `` No, don`t you trust me? You must stay here.`` Jaffrey even said, ``Kill me and leave them alone.`` After the police brought people here [the camp] then all night they set bodies on fire, so there could be no cases against them, so there could be no evidence. Without police support, none of this could have happened.

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TAKEN FROM A RELIABLE HUMANS RIGHT WATCH WEBSITE :http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/india/

mittarji,

i am well aware of what chootiapa literally stands for. . .and i owe this not to unplugged but my `real` punjabi friends. LOL.

khair, if it makes you feel any better, i don`t use this word all that often. hate to disappoint you there. it is a much stronger word than bakwas, and bakwas unfortunately was too mild of a word to use for some of the interacts here, especially the writer`s. :)

#71 by dost-mittar
Thanks dost-mittar :) . Well, not trying to point any fingers, but if people like ana and stuka, will curse at me, they will get the same back. If she is a girl that doesn`t mean I will give her a free hand. And again it was her who used the curse first and so was stuka. You curse at me, I curse at you. Simple. But thanks Dost_mittar for writing what you wrote. Ana needs to realize that if she uses bad language, that doesn`t mean that people will not reply back in the same. That is one good thing about America. Everybody is equal. You curse you get cursed at. Why sweat? Accept, it.

hamid81:
Ignore the hindians` comments. You may have noticed that none of the muslim Indians liked your story either. This is because it reflects your hatred and not their genuine pain and anguish. Can Pakistani muslims do something? Yes, they can, by creating conditions that stop if not reverse the trickle-out of hindus from Pakistan and criticise the conditions which are now leading to a similar exodus from Bangladesh.
Chowk has done nothing wrong in publishing this article; hamid perhaps reflects the opinion of many Pakistanis about muslim Indians. They have also at the same time published an article by a muslim Indian (Alavi`s visit to Kakori) to give another perspective. Some of the interacts should however have been edited out.

ana (noorie):
Do you know what ``chootiyapa`` literally stands for? If you did, I`m sure you wouldn`t use this word. [this is what happens when you spend too much time at unplugged:-)]

HP #63

you`re right about one thing. cussing is as unalien to me as it is to you. but i think farzana said it best when she said men resort to name-calling when they are afraid or feeling insecure. and i think that doesn`t apply to men alone. unlike you, who has been known to call a woman who expresses her point of view a baby-killer and a whore, i don`t necessarily feel the need to give men ma behen ki gaaliyan to make myself feel better. not that i haven`t used those words before because i have but here`s the thing: they don`t make me feel better. so i am not afraid to tell men what i think in language free of gaalis in order to reassert myself whatever the heck that means. nor do i need a man`s shoulder to cry on. your high opinion of women here at chowk has always been noted.

chowk has not rejected or deleted any of my posts as ana, and you really don`t know why my posts have been rejected or deleted at other times to make the claims you do. so it`s not really a matter of whether chowk shows good sense or not. chowk has the good sense to show what is going on in the so-called brilliant minds of men and women here. they should be commended for this.
so i do hope that you`ll forgive me if i don`t follow your well-meaning advice, or tell you that your sympathy for what hamid mahmood said reeks of insincerity. not that i need sympathy, mind you. . .it`s always good to see the brilliance that comes out of the cracks in pakistan.

< <<

This is no excuse. Ana, from her posts, is an intelligent, thoughtful woman. Hamid is a low life jerk and a jacka$$.

#60 by hamidm2 on August 8, 2004 8:36pm PT
......... even i am getting tired of all the paki-bashing by both the cicumscised and the unclean,...... therfore, even without reading what all the fuss is about, i fully endorse the views of my namesake ...............excelsior! ``

Miyan, for once you are turning `sober` - your name sake must have switched your brand. I am sure the himalyan weeds would bring you back to your former ``Lahut``.