Bhaiya, Malhar Sunao

UrsTruly-
``..The burden of responsibility for the protection of Indian Muslims lies on the shoulders of none other but Pakistani Muslims. We have shirked our responsibility and today hindu has found courage to look into our eyes..........``
``One has to be an animal to kill and be remorseless at the same time. .....``

You are not even powerful enough to determine your own political destiny in your country- So buzz off!
And who has given you this right to self arrogate this responsibility to resolve our issues ? As regards war mongers and riot inciters like you I can only say that I hope the Americans get you before you can raise more jehadis for ``liberating`` India.

Deny this Hindu Apologist! The inveterate liars!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1154479,00.html

Two years on, Gujarat`s wounds are still raw

Once peaceful Muslim and Hindu community ruined by resentment over 1,000 violent deaths as police fail to bring most culprits to trial

Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian

For the last two years, Salimbhai Jamumiya Sindhi has lived in a plastic tent with no running water and only intermittent electricity.
``This is what the Hindus have left us with,`` he says, pointing to homes made of little more than tarpaulins and plastic sheets. ``We did nothing to deserve this and we cannot live with the Hindus now.``
The relief camp on the outskirts of the Gujarati town of Modasa is all that remains of the Muslims of Kidiyad, a sleepy hamlet 100 miles from the state capital Gandhinagar. Islam and Hinduism had coexisted here for centuries until a deadly wave of religious violence swept through Gujarat two years ago this week.
Salimbhai, who had been elected the village sarpanch or headman, lost his wife in the carnage - she was beaten to death - and 70 other Muslims from the village were burnt alive by armed Hindu mobs.
In Kidiyad, all that stands of 50 Muslims` homes are their red brick and mud walls. Left untouched are the Hindu houses and cowsheds. In a sign of the divide, Hindus in Kidiyad made it clear that they regarded Muslims partly as the source, not the victim, of the troubles.
``As long as the Muslims can convince us that there will be no problems then we would welcome them back,`` said Nadubhai Ujambhai, a local salesman. The Gujarat violence broke out in February 2002 when a Muslim mob set alight a train carrying Hindu pilgrims on their way back from the site of the destroyed mosque in Ayodhya. The incident, which claimed the lives of 60 worshippers, sparked three weeks of murderous reprisals by Hindu mobs that left more than 1,000 people dead, most of them Muslims.
Many claim the government of the Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata party in Gujarat looked on as Hindu mobs rampaged through the state.
Despite the attacks the BJP, led by Narendra Modi, a hardline preacher turned politician, won a landslide election in the state at the end of 2002. ``The government have not done anything to help us here. The police did not stop anybody. We have had to sell the land we have always lived on and were forced to move to Modasa because it is a Muslim area. We are safe here,`` says Salimbhai.
Distrust
The deep reservoir of distrust and fear among Muslims has led many to live apart from their fellow Gujaratis. Salimbhai says that Muslim children, who used to go to government schools, will now attend a local madrassa to get an ``Islamic`` education. ``Nobody wants to work for a Hindu here. But neither are Hindus willing to give a Muslim a job.``
Human rights groups say the failure of the Gujarat state authorities to hold those responsible for the deaths to account has made it difficult to reconcile the communities. More than 4,250 cases relating to the riots have been registered with the police. Yet in the 24 months since the riots, only 15 Hindus have been convicted. ``We have no faith in the government of Gujarat,`` says Shakeel Ahamad, president of the Islamic relief committee, which is trying to resettle displaced Muslims. ``They are making every effort to hinder the legal process.``
Many trials of Hindus accused of taking part have resulted in acquittals and the Gujarat courts have been criticised by the country`s supreme court. India`s most important judges will this week decide whether to hand over inquiries to central government investigators.
The police deny they are dragging their feet. They insist the difficulty lies in getting people to turn in their neighbours.
Ahmedabad`s Naroda Patia district was the scene of some of the worst atrocities in 2002. Women were raped, others set on fire. Men were clubbed to death. Even today menace hangs in the air. There are 88 police officers on permanent duty to protect the 80 witnesses to events.
Although the state government lodged its ``first information report`` days after the attack in Naroda Patia, legal activists say little has been done to bring the case to court. ``The state is in control of this process ... but the authorities have simply sat on it,`` said Jiteesh Odedra, a researcher for Delhi-based Human Rights Monitor. ``They have joined this case with another 28. Until they arrest all those accused in all the cases, nothing can move forward in Naroda Patia.``
K Nityanandam, spokesman for the Gujarat government`s home affairs ministry, refuted any suggestion that the government is responsible for the delay. ``A few Muslims still do feel alienated but there was no question of the state being involved in what happened. We have to wait for the judicial processes to end.``

baRachota:

rather than justifying the ill-treatment of pakistani christians by matching it up with the dalits, why don`t you address the issue of what is happening in your own backyard? no one has ever said that india is a perfect democracy, but guess what? it IS a democracy. and it has age-old issues that it will continue to grapple with, and consciences that are, as someone described, either careless, or those which spearhead movements towards change.

i know how some christians are treated in india. i know of the struggle of the dalits. and i KNOW how christians are treated in pakistan. obviously you aren`t interested in all of that. you are interested in your agenda of maligning hindus and other groups in india, which is what you have been doing ever since you first appeared on chowk. so please spare us all your chootiaapa and your so-called concern for what is happening to the dalits in india.

plats8,

gearhead is yet another reincarnation of baRachota. his various changes in name do not change the stupidity and the insecurities that lie deep within him. bechaara.

and why are the chowk editors being asked what possessed them to publish this article? they`ve published drivel before haven`t they? what possesses them to publish an article by a. shiraz for example? obviously they feel that what they`re sharing with us are ``opinions`` or ``artistic attempts`` that are not intended to be taken personally. forgive me as i try not to choke while laughing.

oh, and nb. . .urstruly ka tolerance ka elastic aTak jata hai, if you know what i mean. when it snaps back after being aTka hua, it hurts him really. no one else.

Does anybody even care to read what Dalit keeps posting? Those are geniune articles most appearing in newspapers. How hard is it for one to accept anything against their country? Maybe hard enough for one to deny anything remotely possibly linking his/her country to human ill-treatment. Its pity that we think more about our culture or country and less about humanity. I wish we could improve ourselves and instead of finding objections to such articles, we try to seek the truth and accept it bravely. Change starts small, lets hope it does start...

plats8 #34:
Don’t act like a child. How about this, there is Bal Thakray writing from all those accounts denying these true horrific accounts. And, there is one Hamid writing from all those accounts in defense...hilarious.

Grow up and accept the fact that people may see the truth to it. And there can be people who would rather not be plain stupid objective, but actually want to accept the mistakes and try to improve their selves.

We Americans accept that what happened in Vietnam was our mistake. But there are still some knuckleheads who still think that we were just in doing so. You fall in the later category my friend. My advice, please care to reform yourself so you could be a contributor to this humanity.

chowk editors, when you publish an article of this quality, you invite trolling-this board is awash with trolls.

really makes me wonder what are the vehicles of such misinformation? if one does not know abt india one can look around chowk. mostly indian muslims are interacting here to let the truth be known and those who are termed as paki bashers and hindutva fanatics such as arjun,sadna etc. are the ones who most vociferously ask for Modi`s blood when discussion is on Gujarat on some of the Indian boards.
ana..i know this is a 20 something guy and no ..this should not be used in labelling pakis.everybody knows ..probably in their first month on chowk that urstrulys and gujjus and nikkis are irrelevant ..i have always wondered why such negative people provoke the strongest emotions from us ..
for the author..i would suggest a strong dose of good literature..like i think i have already done before..read Manto,Ghulam Abbas,Krishan Chander,Bedi,Rahi Masoom Raza and then you will realize that what you are writing is not literature..
but honestly i think it is what you write is really your problem so i am not too worried about it..

#38 by nb
“chowk editors, when you publish an article of this quality”

“can you please tell me on what crieria you chose to publish this article? even the description of rape is ridiculous, intended to tiltillate. the kama sutra is all about seduction, not brute force.”

#34 by plats8
“Chowk Editors,
What exactly were you thinking while publishing this article ? I am really curious.”

#27 by ana
“oh and chowk editors. . .how good does this make us pakistanis look? (one of the editors will hopefully understand the reference :) ).”

All this article did was referred to incidents that actually happened in Gujarat!

India is the most pious country in the world. Nothing bad happens there, if it does, it is somebody else’s fault. The woman presented herself for rape. Those knife wielding guys were just hanging out there. It was the woman’s fault. (Author should have made it clear.)

Compare this to a well documented event where a pregnant woman’s womb was slit open, baby was pulled out, dangled by the mob before it was a sharp object was used to kill the baby.( Hate to even bring this up- instead of condemning horrible acts our friends are asking CHOWK admin to delete the article.)

Present facts about India= Malign India

#38 by nb

“even the description of rape is ridiculous”

How would you write the description of rape? Need more graphic and less human?

#15 by Jawahara
” So, how many times have you been to India?”

Now, you have to go to India to write about India? We have plenty of wise guys from India here who have never visited Pakistan, never even read a paper other than in English and they write about Pakistan in as authentic way as they are the personal advisors to the Govt. of Pakistan. Their hatred for Pakistan is evident from every single post on this site.
India is so sacrosanct that if somebody just mentions any thing bad about it, it hurts our pious friends’ sensibilities.

Chowk Admin, please delete this article forthwith. It is annoying our friends.
I guess if the background of the article was Pakistan, we would have had a long line of pious Indians gloating over the poor quality of life in Pakistan and the murderous nature of all muslims….

Chowk admin, please delete my post too, if it hurts some pious and sensitive people from across the border.

rahul #39

negative people provoke the strongest emotions from us because:

a) they bring out our own insecurities which we would not rather face OR
b) they speak from such depths of ignorance that it makes it difficult for the listener to remain silent OR
c) they don`t follow that adage of pointing out the speck in someone`s eye before realizing the log in one`s own (i`m sure this adage isn`t just used in the new testament). . . .

and i`m sure there are other reasons. but these are some of the more prevalent ones at chowk.

another reason is that some of us take a little more seriously than others the fact that chowk is a place for people to read, write and think. when you have people turn up who either don`t want to think, or have a deliberate agenda to be malicious because they really don`t give a rat`s ass about anyone or anything that is being discussed here, it does tend to make the thinking people go off. perhaps ignoring them will make them go away, i don`t know. silence isn`t always the answer.

forgive me for intruding on your wonderings. . . :)

Hamid writes :

Quote

How does it feel to be the citizen of a country which is part of the only three countries in the world working against Muslims? How does it feel to be a citizen of a country which supports Israel, against Muslims? You must feel very happy going to bed thinking that your tax money to your government goes to Israel so it can slay Muslims.

Unquote

What is Hamid doing studying IT in USA and planning to live there as he says in his profile. Does he realise that his college fees and taxes later on is going to support Israel !!!! Or is he planning to be unemployed and claim benefits. What a peice of hypocrite. I hope that he doesnt apply to an Indian IT company.

for the author..i would suggest a strong dose of good literature
er, I suppose it would leave the author even more confused ... all that he needs I suppose is a daily dose of a strong laxative ... and while our author here cries hoarse over the condition of muslims in India his fellow countryman is baffled by his silence on the what muslims are doing to each other, even in Islamic countries

Hi everyone. Well, whatever I have writtewn in my previous responses, nobody I see hav e really come up with facts to say that it is incorrect. Just letting me know that my story is bad; no dice. And ana, about making us Pakistani look bad. Us Pakistanis, or us Muslims are already bad in the eyes of everyone. If we help Muslims in Kashmir, then we are termed as terrorists. If the same happens in Palestine, then again we are termed as terrorists. I thank God everyday that at least my country of ethenic origin doesn`t have a military pact with Israel. Like India.At least Pakistan does not take party in violence in Palestine. Now back to India. What about the violence in Kashmir? Well, enough because I have already said this. Has anyone checked the URL I posted earlier? has anyone seen the anguish and pain on the face of the man? No.
But why is everyone telling me I should be happy with my story getting published? LOL. This has been published in many local newspapers and even in Temple Times. I have been told that it is a great story and I have been also been applauded alot. So really I do not need any sort appreciation from stuck-up Indians.
Bottom line, Muslims live like dogs in India, and whenever there numbers get to critical point, ethinic cleansing is started. They have been killed, and will be killed. They need to re-alize that.
I know a lot about India. Because my family, belongs to a certain part of India, where we ruled. But we left it. We left our money and our estates, because, we believed that there should be a seperate homeland for Muslims. That is why none of my family members were killed in the riots. We made the right choice.
There is hatred stemming out of every corner in India for Muslims. Every Villian in recent Indian movies, has to be an Indian-Muslim except for Khaki (which I think was a good movie).
And ahy should`t I write about these sort of rapes? I will. If agression happens against Muslims in any form, I will write about it. Whether it is in India or anywhere else. I will write about it. And I don`t care if lousy Indians don`t like it. I don`t give a rat`s behind if they don`t. They are hiding away from the worst reality. I have no reason to. Insh-Allah, I will write more about such atrocities.
But anyways, this piece was not intended, as a rascist piece. If I would have written the same thing in Pakistani context, all the Indians would have commended me. But, anyways, it was meant to be read for it`s other things.
But, one thing is for sure. I am writing more about this sort of thing. Again and Again I will write. And not just on chowk, but on every website and newspaper I can find.
Reason: I feel for my Muslim brothers and sisters. if there is anything happening to them, I will write about it and make people realize that Muslims are in pain and angiush.
Regards
H

#39 by rahul_capri

To consider this author(and people of his ilk) as irrelevant would be a huge mistake. A mistake that India and the world has been making for a long time. A mistake which has brought us all to where we are today - unable to control/neutralize a monster that has grown big right under our noses.

I think chowk editors are right - this article should be published. Let me explain...

Of course, this article full of bare-faced lies and twisted facts, raw in emotions and presentation .... and that itself tells the story. The real story is not about riots in India or elsewhere - the story is about how such events are processed and internalized by a section of people - its a reflection of their pathologies, their incessant attempt to validate a weakening ideology.

It represents a vast section of paki populace who believe in the ``theories`` and ideas presented in here.

The theme is very simple really. Like the author says - ``Pakistan is not for Hindus``, or other minorities for that matter. In this, the author states a fact which is accepted by vast majority of pakis - Pakistan is for muslims and muslims only.

Which implicates that India must be for Hindus only. It has to be - how can it be anything else? And yet - there are millions muslims living in there. It`s an huge anomaly that pakis are not simply able to process and understand. It just doesn`t fit in their scheme of things. (I remember reading an article in chowk where author narrated an incident where a paki child was confused after knowing that Salman Khan is a muslim and still living in India.)

So you see - it leaves pakis confused and invalidates their very dearly cultivated ``ideology`` ..... which in turn makes them resentful towards indian muslims ..... and hindus of course.

So when things go wrong over there, it gives pakis a huge sense of elation - things then fall into place - everything make sense - life is sweeter. That`s why the author is so very elated at the thought of coming holocaust that will wipe out indian mulsims. Because that would be the ultimate salvation for pakis. That will teach the ``traitors`` (as they view indian muslims) a lesson.

So this article makes a powerful presentation of the pathology of a people so hung up on ``Two Nation Theory``. This is reminder of what is really out there - this being the season of people-to-people contact and peace and what not. This should help calibrating your responses while you make a valiant attempt to make peace with a people full of resentment and paranoia.

Thanks chowk editor for publishing this article.

=== Interact Filtered ===
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so let me get this straight.

In my nearly a 8 months of interacting on Chowk, I have seen dozens of articles condemning Pakistan, Pakistanis, Islam, Muslims etc. I have seen indians and hindus jumping with joy at such articles and using these to further demean Pakistan and Islam.

Now, Chowk staff has done something out of the ordinary and published an article which supposedly bashes something OTHER than Islam. And everyone is up in arms and demanding that Chowk delete it !!!!!

Amazing hypocrisy!!!