A Matter of Destiny

I clicked on naseeb.com and realized that perhaps it is nothing new when i saw a picture of saddam and rumsfeld shaking hands (we all know that, for Gods sake. What would have been new would have been a picture of BENAZIR shaking hands with saddam - yes, she went to baghdad to meet with the rat, and after saddam had made it clear that he couldnt care less about kashmir).

I then saw an article titled ``warraq`s attack on islam`` - and came to the conclusion that this was another web sites of the morons, by the morons and for the morons. Get a life you whining, miserable little fools. Young people from the US, China, Russia, africa, australia, carribean, latin america compete in olympics.

PS: As for this being a pan-Islamic website - forget it. It is a web site by pakistani morons, for pakistani morons. You wont find any arabs and turks and indonesians and iranians and nigerians joining in. Rest assured. And just replacing the aol ``youve got mail`` with a panjabi accented guy saying the same thing would be funny if it was intended to be funny - it is merely pathetic (and do you seriously think that non-pakistanis will identify with a guy with a panjabi accent - half the muslim morons around the world dont even know what a panjabi is).

re: this article
Though i do not belong here, i have something interesting to say. Go to the Url below:

http://www.naseeb.com/naseebvibes/prose-detail.php?aid=1856&pg=1
There is an article by Yaseer Latif Hamdani. Ring a bell?
Sridhar

tahmed,

............ you are right .... just goes to prove that there is something terribly wrong with the ummah when they cannot even go about the simple task of trying to find a bed-partner without dragging in god, saddam and rumsfield ............ they even have an islamic tv commercial for viagra that starts off with ominous koranic verses extolling the virtues of sex fee-sabeehlillah and shows a happy momin with four beaming fat women in death-shrouds!....... go figure

Orkut is no longer the sole abode of the frivolous.

I am a paid member of naseeb.com. I occasionally go to the website and I have made some online friends through it, as well as having reconnected with old friends. This is a very good website :)

hamidm - you write ``just goes to prove that there is something terribly wrong with the ummah when they cannot even go about the simple task of trying to find a bed-partner without dragging in god, saddam and rumsfield``

sounds like you have some better ideas and suggestions for the ``ummah`` in its quest to find bed partners. Lets hear them. If you don`t have any better ideas, then please let the ``ummah`` talk about god, saddam and rumsfeld. We already have too many commentators like yourself, and very few doers like Monis Rehman.

BTW - how did you find your bed partner? I bet when your parents arranged your marriage, they must have mentioned how ``god fearing`` you were. You probably even recited some verses of Quran with a maulvi on the day of nikah. So even you could not get a bed-partner without bringing in god.

I was introduced to this site way back. I have even forgotten when. I do not remember if I ever signed up for it or just browsed through it. It seemed pretty technical and kind of functional. A friend of mine constantly kept on sending me email invites to look into the site and join his network of friends. There was a time when I could stand the mailing lists, the email invites and the back and forth email communication, but I have no tolerance left for it anymore. Also, both email communication and chat groups are not the best way of knowing anyone; face-to-face communication reveals a lot more about a person. I detest chat groups and consider msn messenger a curse of nature!

One of my friends has looked into some other Muslim networks and online groups. Interestingly, the most weird people she came across on those sites were the ones who claimed to be either the most religious or looking for a god fearing woman (mostly of the Pakistani Origin). They were indeed very romantic in the beginning (sweet talk and stuff) but ended up being complete perverts. Since this friend had grown up in North America therefore she was quite interested in looking into a Muslim male of Pakistani origin to preserve the culture (a fallacy). So far she has come across all kinds - liars, losers, good for nothing and perverts. Now, she is even hesitant to share any of her experiences since she knows my take. By the way, last time we talked she had a friend over and they were reviewing and dissecting Naseeb.Com. We all laughed at it.

I agree that people have their own way of meeting a person and evaluating how suitable he/she may be when it comes to a long-term partnership. It can be a scary deal. Not many people like to put all their cards on the table. Some (both men and women) love to stay elusive.

People must have exceptional requirements or suffering from some deficiency syndrome to search for friends on obscure websites like naseeb.com in the presence of similar services provided for free with database many fold larger from across the world at yahoo, msn and aol to name few sites. All one needs is to be noticed by another person and then moving to one-on-one interaction modes, provided by all major sites in a variety of ways. Chowk is actually better than naseeb.com because it also offers noticing through interaction without the undue pressure to extend noticing to be fruitful through multiplication. At least 2 couples and many friendships have been developed among chowkies.

There is no better place to meet people than yahoo. But one has to be smart to be successful in developing friendship or relationship without using religion to click fellings between two individuals. Actually gupistan.com is better than naseeb.com for providing pressure-free interacting environment for Pakistanis and letting people notice the ones they like.

Desi Orkut...
balay!balay!

tahmed, hamidm, Sameerjb

The people who I would have expected to be all support for a website like Naseebvibes and both of you are the most critical. Maybe had you read the article ``Warraq`s attack on Islam`` instead of just looking at the title you would have another opinion... it is a website that is trying to build bridges, not burns them. NaseebVibes is a progressive and forward looking website dedicated to reform ... and is highly critical of the narrowminded Islamists and fundamentalist Islamism that is on the loose... look at the kind of people who are writing for or speaking at Naseeb... Chomsky... Asra Nomani... Judaea Pearl.... Irshad Manji... Bina Shah... Feroz Khan.. As for calling it obscure... it already has 130 000 strong membership... not all of whom are Muslims by the way... Soon enough you will see an interfaith project starting on Naseeb ... which deals with Islam`s interaction with the Modern world... I am surprised at how every thing is always the opposite of reality on Chowk... people who should be supporting Naseeb for finally coming out... as a Progressive and liberal website ... are denouncing it like narrowminded fanatics...

And the only person who has so far spoken out for Naseeb.com before my post, is someone who will probably be most disappointed by the liberal, progressive, and anti-Mullah views of Naseeb.


Please give something a chance before you condemn it...

-YLH

Naseeb is a great site! You all who`re dissing it should re-evaluate your opinions. Even if everyone on that site was a fundo, the articles Vibes presents are quite extra-ordinary. And those ideas will eventually seep into and change views.

Cheers!

Mantollives # 10 writes ``And the only person who has so far spoken out for Naseeb.com before my post, is someone who will probably be most disappointed by the liberal, progressive, and anti-Mullah views of Naseeb. ``

I know a person who claims to be ``liberal``, yet he promotes religion based hatred. He claims to be ``liberal`` yet supports a dictatorship - as for him dictatorship is ``progressive``. He claims to be ``liberal``, yet he supports the repressive policies of Ataturk`s Turkey. When we encounter such a ``liberal`` person, we say that he is a confused person.

Being `liberal` does not necessarily equate to being `progressive`. Being `liberal` also does not equate to playing slave to the world.

Naseeb Vibes is just another medium of exchange of ideas. I have just skimmed through a few articles in the last few days. there are some articles I agree with, and some I don`t. Unlike the self-proclaimed ``liberals``, i have not boxed myself into being a life long ``liberal`` and supporting every liberal cause - whether or not it makes sense to me.

As for Irshad Manji, I had an unfortunate chance of meeting her in person. In fact, I had known of her well before she wrote the book. She is a regular columnist for National Post in Canada. This a newspaper which is owned by a jewish family. But there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is that this newspaper and this family is at the forefront of stiffling opinion. It created policies that caused many of its reporters to go on strike or leave the paper altogether. If Manji wants to put the money where her mouth is, she should have spoken up against the fascist policies of her paper`s owners. Instead, she has the nerve to write a book teaching us about ``tolerance`` !!!

What a nerve!

And a comment about Olympics....

Have you wondered why the entire ``former British India`` has scored only 1 medal on the medals table ... even though today is home to several independent nations, which technically should have increased the chances for this reason?

The third world... especially our region ... still is facing adversity... our interest in sports is marginal and limited.... even in Cricket if you think about it... A good crowd in Qaddafi stadium is 30 000 .... and that too when Pakistan plays India... in India it is a bit more because Calcutta stadium and other stadiums are huge... At my alma mater in the US... an American College football game between my university and another university from the Big East Conference could fetch crowds of 60 000 people.. How many people do you think watch Punjab University take on LUMS in Cricket?

Sports and other such positive activities come with political and economic stability... to fault our young for being politically aware is rather sad... if any thing they are not aware enough... first we must become first rate nations ... be it Pakistan, Bangladesh or the regional heavy weight India... and then we will act like first rate nations...

-YLH

Binashah:
Thanks a million writing this. I am envious of you that you personally knew Monis Rehman.
If possible could you please forward this post to him. His email seems to be, as I`ve read there, is always clogged up.

Mantolives:10

You and I have had many many discussion , debates and arguments on this forum. If you can recall I`ve admired your zeal , enthusiasm, and passion unabashedly and to no end. There were occasions when I wanted to revise this assessment ``.. but your heart is in the right place`` but I`m glad you never gave me that opportunity.

You see Yasser, there is the boat, the oar, and the keel ( rudder). As long as we are in the same boat and have a destination then If you have the oar and the other operate the keel or vice-versa or the best way; to switch for variety and comfort. There lies our destiny.

And yes I`ve been made that on some other fora, a while back, you have been generous to quote me in support of your contention.

After reading your comments about Naseeb.com, I had to check it out. By expressing your support to this network I feel really comfortable in saying that no matter which route or phraseology you and I choose to employ, our destination is, jointly and severally, the same.

In fact naseeb.com has done a very SAWAB kaa kaam by providing an eHomeland to the first generation muslims. If like a Nobel an award could be given to an instituition, I am very tempted to call this instituition a MOMIN. ( It brings solace & comfort to an overwhelming humanity in its direst need today)

This is actually a very addictive site. Naseeb has developed a cult following amoung Muslims of all ages. It`s actually a very low pressure site, not what it might seem. Surprisingly it has a *very* large number of Arabs, Turks, African Americans, and Persians on the site in addition to the normal desi crowd you find on Chowk.

I read some comment on here alluding that its a Pakistani site and I`m not sure where that came from. It is by far the most diverse and intelligent group of online Muslims I`ve seen on the net. 130,000 members in nine months is no joke -- Chowk has about 10,000 members over about eight years. I find it very different than other sites like Friendster and Orkut in that it has an identity focus. They have started using collaborative filtering to predict what individual users might like in terms of writings and people.

You must try this out if just out of curiosity. I think there is a ``Naseeboholic`` sitting inside each one of us!

Here is the article that Tahmed was referring to... I will like to know what he found objectionable in it?? Is it too Islamist? or too Liberal?? or do some people just suffer from chronic negativity? Does the Muslim community not need to be more tolerant of dissent? What is so moronic about it? Or is it that some people just read the title and think they know everything about the article:


``Ibn-e-Warraq`s attack on Islam``

Our failure as the Muslim community to tolerate, let alone accept, dissent is one of the many reasons why we find ourselves in the quagmire that we are in today. As a result those refuseniks that ought to have led the ‘opposition’ so to speak with in the world of Islam, politically and socially have fled our ranks and have taken refuge in the west. A deafening silence prevails over the intellectuals of the Islamic world. This is the true measure of the fear that the orthodoxy has created.

One such refusenik is the unnamed ex-Muslim who has assumed the identity of ‘Ibn-e-Warraq’, and is the founder of Institute for Secularization of Islamic Society. He is an outspoken critic of Islam challenging the very basics of the faith itself. Over the past few years he has become famous with his book ‘Why I am not a Muslim’ that outlines the reasons why he left the faith of Islam. In doing so, however, he has alienated a large mass of Muslim audience who were otherwise willing to listen to him.

While he is right that Islam itself means three different things a) Islam of the Quran and the Prophet b) Islam of the Ulema, and c) the Islamic civilization, but it is his unsparing criticism of the first one that has alienated the silent majority. Instead of approaching the issue of human rights, equality and democracy on a case-by-case basis, he has chosen to attack the faith of Islam itself.

It is his right to do so, no doubt, and we should accept his right whether or not we agree, but it is an exercise in futility. Faith is matter of belief. The problems he outlines with Islam are not unique to Islam, but that Islam, as a civilization, has now reached the point of intellectual and political development that Christianity had five centuries earlier. It was in 16th century that the idea of a universal Christendom was replaced by the idea of nation-state.

In Islam this started to happen in the early 20th century. The answer to the issues and ailments of the Muslim world is not to attack its basis recklessly, hiding behind an assumed identity, but to become an instrument of change within the Muslim world, by helping channel those energies that will make the Islamic world more democratic, more progressive, more liberal and more modern. It is high time for Ibn-e-Warraq to end this counter-productive confrontation with the Muslims of the world, and join in the great dialogue of our civilization. Surely his place is within the Islamic civilization as a leader of dissent