Muslims Meet the FBI

> The best thing muslims in America can do for themselves is to act as Muslim Americans and not as American Muslims.

That is a great point in theory but in practice, in non Muslim countries Muslims have (almost ?) never done so.

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#23 by kkkandk on August 16,

ok, carry on with the civility with ana etc.

we indoos dont get this at all, so we cannot participate much (except nikkii attempting some lame pangas with the suddy). untill i came to us, i did not even know that pakis are panjus, muhajirs etc. i had a vague idea that there are sindhis and pujus, and may be some gujju-memons. then meeting folks in person here was a bit bewidering, i was expecting a single-dimentional muslim-paki identity. well, atleast all of you speak urdu, the language of civility and all. we meet pathans in india all the time, and so actually we even know the accent.

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#21 by kkkandk

[They are doing this in Kashmir, which is disputed territory. If they do it in India, it is wrong.]

And pray tell us, is Afghanistan also a disputed territory? The ISI and Pakistani Mujahideen ruined Afghanistan by creating the Taliban. Even today, Pakistan arms and shelters Taliban and supports warlords opposed to the Hamid Karzai regime. Pakistani meddling in Afghanistan is legendary.

The attack on the Indian Parliament and the Akshardham temple in Gujarat were engineered and carried out by your countrymen. The Jaish-e-Muhammad publicly acknowledged that it was behind the attack on the Parliament building.

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kkandk:

Your moral arguements are cogent. Keep in mind the result of Indian meddling in Sri Lanka..a PM dead, thousands of soldiers dead fighting our own creation. As Jang says, the moral arguements are there, keep an eye on the blowback to you.

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kkk&k

worry more about effects of x-border terrorism than morality. currently its the single biggest challenge for pakistan, dwarfs all other problems and stalls development.

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#19 by kkkandk

But what distinguishes India from Pakistan is the fact that we learnt our lessons quickly and without the gun pointed on our temples. You have yet to do it. India banned the LTTE and those who even sympathise with the Tamil cause have been hounded and incarcerated. There`s one leader Vaiko who spent the better part of the last 3 years in prison for doing so. He was released only because the POTA was repealed. In contrast, extremist leaders such as Hafiz Muhammad Saeed of the LeT and Maulana Masood Azhar of the JeM were being paid stipends even when they were under house arrest!! They still roam free and incite Paki youth to take up arms against India and kill Indians.

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Yeh lahoo surkhee hai azaadi kay afsanay kee

Hum Mustafavi haiN

Recorded in 1974: Music Sohail Rana: Voice Mehdi Zaheer

story behind the event:

The Second Islamic conference was scheduled. Time was short. JamilUDDIn wrote the song and as you will notice that it is in ``rajaz`` meter. It was decided that either Umm-Kulsoom or subhaan [ the great singers from egypt] would be retained. Sohail Rana suggested that we should use our own talent. Mehdi Zaheer, of Radio pakistaN- A legend in his own lifetime both as a scholar and as an artist. His recorded songs in Arabic were already popular in the Middle East but he was himself pretty shy and evasive of publicity & commercialism.

The galloping and advancing of horses, after the introductrey [rajaz] which was a part of battle protocol and strict rule among arabs, is a masterpiece in music composition by a genius as well as singing by another genius.

Enjoy!

Pakistan ko Salgirah Mubarak ho.
PakistaaniON ko salgiraaH mubarak ho.
CHOWK ko salgirah mubarak ho.

Replies from 7 indians and two Pakistanis?

Either Chowk is fixed or Muslims are afraid that the FBI is reading this forum too.


Ras

My post#12 was addressed to post arjun_m #5. I thought the system would show that up :-)

You can poke holes in all the arguments you want. My response to reading Royer`s statement is ``I don`t know`` (don`t have much time to poke holes :-))which, admittedly, is not a good positon to be in since many Muslims had that same attitude towards OBL (many love him, many don`t know what to think about him, few hate him). However it was the implication of your earlier post that I was responding to (by providing an alternative picture of Royer whom you had linked to CAIR).

CAIR is not a Taleban, nor a Hamas. Its approach to politics and muslim representation is bereft of any paranoid tendencies, unlike the jihad groups. Of-course it`s pro-Palestinian - every muslim is - but it is also pro-coexistence. The implication of your earlier post is that CAIR is the opposite of the above.

I agree Daniel Pipes is right in many instances of facts that he states in many of his articles and writings - he has pretty convincing arguments. One problem though: he tends to build his arguments and observations of facts in a pre-determined direction. He does it very well in many of his writings. If you read his ``Conspiracy: How the Paranoid Style Flourishes and Where it Comes From`` then you may notice how he tends to clearly build up his ideas to a particular cause which he advocates.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm

DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
07 August 2004 Saturday 20 Jamadi-us-Saani 1425

The wall of silence
By Irfan Husain

..... in the case of Muslims, this desire to present a united front against the rest of the world often translates into an uncomfortable `us against the world` syndrome that only serves to deepen the existing gulf that Huntington reminded us of in his controversial `Clash of Civilizations`.

The truth is that despite the show of unity that we put on when a member of the Ummah is under attack or is being criticized, far more Muslims have been killed and victimized by their fellow-Muslims than they have been by non-Muslims. From Afghanistan to Algeria, Muslims are pitted against Muslims.

For almost a decade in the eighties, Iranians and Iraqis slaughtered each other by the hundreds of thousands. When Saddam Hussein unleashed his chemical weapons, he did not do so against Israel or the West; he did so against fellow-Muslim Kurds and Iranians. When he chose to expand his frontiers, he invaded the Muslim nations of Iran and Kuwait.

After the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in the late eighties, the (Muslim) Mujahideen fell upon each other, merrily killing their fellow Afghans for over a decade. If the Taliban had not been thrown out in the aftermath of 9/11, they would be still at it.

As it is, their blood lust is only partially controlled by the presence of western troops. The Algerian civil war in which tens of thousands of Muslims have been killed over 25 years shows no sign of abating.

Over the centuries, a slight difference in the way Muslims worship has made it kosher to kill each other, all in the name of religion. While European Christians have put their sectarian intolerance and slaughter of the Middle Ages behind them, we continue to define ourselves by the particular sect we belong to, often killing those who do not conform to our particular narrow interpretation of the holy scriptures.

Thus, the (Sunni) Taliban killed thousands of (Shia) Hazaras. In Pakistan, this Shia-Sunni division has similarly claimed hundreds of victims over the last two decades. In Saudi Arabia, Shias are not allowed to proclaim their faith, and are marginalized in public life. In Iraq, the situation is pregnant with the possibility of a Shia-Sunni civil war.

But these Muslim-on-Muslim crimes are brushed under the carpet when a member of the Ummah is accused of crimes against humanity, as Sudan is now. What did Pakistan gain by abstaining from the UN vote? Had Sudan been an important trading partner or benefactor, Islamabad`s decision would have made a kind of cynical sense. .....

..... many sensitive young Muslims are already disillusioned by the sight of their fellow-Muslims behaving in ways that are completely out of step with our times. Many Muslims in America are furious over the plight of a young Kashmiri girl whose ears, nose and tongue were sliced off by separatist militants.

Indeed, the acts of terrorism being committed by extremist Islamic groups from Bali to Basra are polarizing and dividing the Muslim world as no western policy has. While terrorist groups are undoubtedly gaining fresh recruits among disaffected and confused youth, many other young Muslims are revolted by the senseless violence these groups are committing in the name of religion.

These are difficult days, and many Muslims are unsure of the line to take. Should they join the critics of their fellow-Muslims when the criticism is justified, or take a more comfortable, ostrich-like position? But surely, the rights and wrongs of issues remain unchanged since man attained civilization: it is as morally reprehensible to kill except in self-defence as it always was.

No cause can possibly justify the killing of innocent bystanders. And to gloss over such crimes by asserting that the perceived enemy also acts in a similar fashion is a morally bankrupt argument.

But ultimately, the question to ask is what defines us? Our humanity, or the labels applied to us at birth?

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The best thing muslims in America can do for themselves is to act as Muslim Americans and not as American Muslims.

//..People seem to forget that on 9/11 our country was attacked too..//

Yeah - and by people from Ummah which is so fondly cherished by muslims everywhere. The attackers were product of the bigotry-filled close-minded societies in Ummah countries.

SO where are the actions to reform those countries, their gov`ts? Where is the outrage - where is pressure on Saudis and Pakis who are funding/executing global jihad? Where is the activism to neutralize these forces from inside the comunity?

All you see is stone-walling, whining and empty sermons.

Instead of wasting FBI`s time with meaningless whining about ``profiling`` - this is what CAIR should do:

1. Hold a meeting with that Saudi Prince Abdullah and ask him to dismantle madrassas, stop jihad-funding, open up his society, Let women drive and vote.

2. Sit on Musharraf`s head until he reforms/dismantles ISI - hold the expatriate funds until takes his army back where it belongs.

3. Stop listening to Imams. Start a campaign to reform mosques.

4. Close down that radio station in Houston which promotes Jiahd in Kashmir and elsewhere.

5. Ask palestinians to stop their suicidal ``intifada`` and sit down with israelis to talk and negotiate.

.....

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No amount of educating Non-Muslims about Islam will correct the fundamental problem that the Islamic world faces: why is it so easy for extremists to grab power in Islamic society? These extremists, with their own agenda, sow the seeds of deep mistrust with non-Islamic societies and cause tectonic shifts in relations. The common Muslim man pays for their misdeeds.

The classic example is how Jinnah cleaved a nation in two in the name of Islam and sowed the seeds of perpetual confrontation in a society which, until his time, had seen very little Hindu-Muslim conflict. The 9/11 hijackers have done the same in the U.S.A..

The Islamic world has to do a lot of soul-searching and go out of it`s way to integrate itself with moden thought. That alone will go a long way in bridging the understanding gap.

arjun_m:

CAIR is usually attacked as being a ``Wahabi front`` or liberal muslim sellouts. Falling into Daniel Pipes type rhetoric is not cool. Here`s a link to Royer`s statement and website:

http://www.atrueword.com/index.php/article/articleview/76/1/1/

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