Lahore ka Jughraphiah

#81 -- shuddup yourself

scott -- oh im so sorry for you being so disgusted mr scott -- btw chowk isnt for the weak and the infirm as shri veeresh jee himself will tell you


zahraJ: ``Bored by the ongoing discussion, I started surfing on the internet``

good job -- definitely a better use of your time


mantolives: ``#93 by Mantolives on September 6, 2004 12:01pm PT


#104 by veeresh on September 6, 2004 7:57pm PT
Romair/94 - I did investigate the veracity of the so-called `98 census before I made a statement about no census being held for almost a quarter of a century. If you wish to subscribe to every bit of government PRODUCED data then that is your business. I have the right to make my own judgement calls.


what a L-I-A-R if ever there was one -- shri veeresh jee -- how many lies will you tell all of us to cover your severe lack of knowledge -- the census was held not over 25 years ago but in 1998 -- your assertion was proved wrong oh wise one and since you dont have the courage to admit it, one can only call you a bare(or bear! haha)-faced liar

ylh: PS: While we are on the topic of fairness.... please do note that Veeresh ji has still not answered your politely worded question.... he has tap danced around it. I have absolutely no patience left with this ultra-nationalist fanatic anymore who poses as a peacenik at other times... it seems that he is always without exception wrong ... and the figures he produces out of his rearend are horrendous ...
Now you are welcome to be nice to him... ask him politely several times the same question hoping in vain for the answer... but I will call him for what he really is... a liar.

amen to that ylh --

#94 by Romair on September 6, 2004 12:07pm PT
vereesh #76: ``thank you for Romair`s inputs on the Pakistan Gvernment Census, but would either of you like to review the credibility of that first? Please note, in one of my episodes, I did mention that while in Islamabad and `Pindi I did try to acquire maps and census data. And subsequently, I did try to analyse the credibility of this dat. The PHRC has some interestng things to say about the data and statistics. For example, just how many Buddhists are there in Pakistan today? What is the female-male birth ratio even in urban centres like Karachi?``

I am unable to understand the point you are trying to make.

yaar what point could he possibly make now -- the babajee is running around nanga and doesnt even have the sense to realize it --

#105 by ZahraJ on September 6, 2004 8:12pm PT
.... I am sorry if your board was used inappropriately. Well, YOU invited the boars, the boorish and the retards by being an unfair moderator. You have to take equal responsibility for creating the mess. I hope you realize that. Regards

yes you are so right, esp the retards who couldnt find (or rather expected to find) sanitary napkins at lahore airport -- and who thought a grown up guy being read stories by his mum was a geography-related thing

shri veeresh jee -- 104 -- bow out already

....... here is the score

sher-i-lahore: 9, the hindoo rascal from delhi: 5


.... and will the referee throw out miss zahra and mullah echo?...... they are disrupting the game with their blathering ....... the honor of the nation is at stake and these boobs are talking about boors and whatnot !

..... lahore might not be the greatest place on earth - even though it looks a lot better if you just moved from new jersey - but what i don`t understand is why vereesh mian is so obsessed with putting it down ........... god knows we have all been to some horrible places that he has forsaken, but what is the point in fulminating against them ?........... unless, of course, you are trying to cover up some deep rooted insecurity ........... no?...... kind of like how we muslims never miss an opportunity to make fun of the elephant-nosed gods and six-armed godesses - it makes our allah mian with his white beard and kohl rimmed eyes look absolutely divine ...............

....... ylh zindabad!.......excelsior!........ and may data sahib be with you ...........

Freethinker: With due respect your words disagree with your own preachings. When a writer is not extending the basic courtesy to another interactor or liar(per Chowk`s lie detecting expert) to express his perspective or view on Lahore since it`s different from how Pitrus viewed then you are up to something else. Forget about discussion or interaction.

I am sorry if your board was used inappropriately. Well, YOU invited the boars, the boorish and the retards by being an unfair moderator. You have to take equal responsibility for creating the mess. I hope you realize that. Regards.

Romair/94 - I did investigate the veracity of the so-called `98 census before I made a statement about no census being held for almost a quarter of a century. If you wish to subscribe to every bit of government PRODUCED data then that is your business. I have the right to make my own judgement calls.

Anil/95 - thank you for your advice. However, in this day and age, I don`t think your advice holds good. All of us are very fast to post our views on anything and everything under the sun, and I don`t see Indians and Pakistanis holding back on commenting on ANYTHING under the sun. In any case, your question raises an important counter-question - are our Pakistani friends upset because an Indian is presenting his views? Would my views have been OK if I were American?

freethinker/103 - noted. However, I can say one thing, from the representative sample here, a sense of humour seems to be sorely lacking in modern day Lahore. No wonder, both Pitrus and Manto were from outside Lahore.


kkkandk/101 - good to note that you are a Mughal buff, please ride the morning train from Lahore to Wagah via MughalPura, see the remnants and relics of the Great Mughal Empire going about their Big Jobs and breathe amazing fine dust on the route. Enjoy the scenic Mughal architecture inspired scum filled water bodies along the way.

I have been told again and again that a great canal runs through the centre of the city. I am sure the inhabitants of Moghulpura, pride of the Moghul Empire, would want to know about it too?

Dear Interactors:

It`s a shame. Why can`t we discuss an issue without degrading, ridiculing and insulting others? Why can`t we watch the language that we use? Why are we so proud of our deliberate and hurtful insinuations and direct personal attacks? Why do we want to put down others?

And why, in God`s name, don`t we confine our discussion to issues pertaining to the paper and refrain from discussing personalities and making personal attacks? Can`t we be polite in our discussion? Can we give benefit of doubt to others? Let`s not make Chowk a fish market and ``landa bazar,`` for God`s sake.

Mohammad Gill

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[(An) ill mannered boor? on Chowk???]
Naheen. Naheen. Bilkul Naheen. No way! Yeh Naheen Ho Saktaa!
Are you saying that we have a boor (with an explicit adjective) on Chowk? First of all the very thought of having a boor amongst us raises concern. Secondly, the fact that you have miscalculated the number of boor(s) and pig(s) on Chowk is disappointing. I guess I have to take it with the admin of Chowk for allowing the wild animals to roam around the fields of Chowk without proper clearance. I thought this ezine`s core focus dwelled on human ideas, thoughts, views, opinions, and emotions. :( I am deeply hurt! Ironically, the humans are getting deprived of their fair chance to be heard loud and clear; and here on Chowk, we have boors and pigs running around making a mockery of what is sacred to many humans!
This is the saddest day in the history of mankind. That`s unfair!!!

Mr. Gill:
I have not commented anything at all here. If `not commenting` is considered criticism then yes I am guilty as charged. But you won`t appreciate solicited appreciation either, would you?

I just reffered you to the i-log that you might enjoy it in the present context.

I am just a nobody. No published or unpublished `work` either, but you are free to quote or unquote me as a referrence for any purpose--even as a shining example of a know-nothing.

The articles & interact here are not hugely serious stuff for me; I do not take you seriously either. So just chill there.

P.S:I never give references. I do not consider that necassarily as a sign of great scholarship or otherwise.

Khitta-e LAHORE teray jaaN- NisaaroN ko salaam.

Veeresh:

Has it occurred to you that the modern day Pakistanis and modern day Lahoris are just as proud of their modern day Pakistan and Lahore as you are about India. And that they don`t want to be lectured by any Indian or Dilliwala. Respect their feelings and views, only then they will respect your feelings and views.

Thank you.

Anil Kapuria

Mr. echoboom:

I don`t claim to be an authority on Iqbal but I have read him all my life; not only his urdu kalam, I have read his Persian kalam and his ``Reconstruction of Religious Thought...`` also including some critical works on him by others. So I believe I know a few things about Iqbal and his kalam. I had published a translation of Pitrus` ``Saveray Jo Kal...`` on Chowk, in case you missed it. I had mentioned in Bokhari`s introduction the poem ``Aik Syedzaday Kay Naam``.

When Bokhari met Ismat Chughtaii the first time in Bombay (at Taj), both of them were nervous. Pitrus in an attempt to impress her started dishing out his `fast ones` one after the other. Ismat stopped him and said, ``I have read all this in your books, let us talk something else.`` May I suggest to you also ``Let us talk something else.``

I don`t know a thing about you and your deep and extensive knowledge which gives you the authority to pass judgement on my writings. Please give me a few references to your published work from which I could benefit and may be use them as source material in my future work. When I make a statement which needs evidence, I give appropriate references.

I don`t know many of the interactors here so I try to use my resources to place them. I try to take their criticism as politely as is possible for me. I would surely like to place you also. I am not writing this post out of disrespect to you or any body else but I do have the right to know your station because you`re so critical about my work. Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

Veeresh:

Has it occurred to you that the modern day Pakistanis and modern day Lahoris are just as proud of their modern day Pakistan and Lahore as you are about India. And that they don`t want to be lectured by any Indian or Dilliwala. Respect their feelings and views, only then they will respect your feelings and views.

Thank you.

Anil Kapuria

vereesh #76: ``thank you for Romair`s inputs on the Pakistan Gvernment Census, but would either of you like to review the credibility of that first? Please note, in one of my episodes, I did mention that while in Islamabad and `Pindi I did try to acquire maps and census data. And subsequently, I did try to analyse the credibility of this dat. The PHRC has some interestng things to say about the data and statistics. For example, just how many Buddhists are there in Pakistan today? What is the female-male birth ratio even in urban centres like Karachi?``

I am unable to understand the point you are trying to make. You had stated that there had been no census in Pakistan for a quarter century. I do not recall you stating that there had been a census, which in your opinion was not accurate. Now you are stating that the census of 98 was not accurate.

How exactly can you state whether it was accurate or inaccurate when you did not even know it existed? Did you get a chance to read through it? Did you analyse it? Do you have any references that point to inaccuracies in it? If that is the case, then kindly highlight. As well as explain, why you failed to acknowledge it in the first place.

You have also stated that the PHRC had some questions about it. Human Rights Commissions in every country have certain questions about census data and anything else that their govt. does. As do political parties (as do I for that matter). That is how they operate. They can then take their complaints to the court and get it validated, one way or the other. They tend to do that on issues, where they think their has been gross injustice. And not on issues where they are not quite sure whether they are right or wrong. To the best of my knowledge all provincial and federal parties of Pakistan have accepted the 98 census (barring a few complaints here and there). All the negotiations for water, taxes etc. by provincial govts. are held under census data info.

There is a statistics department in Pakistan, which provides extremely detailed data (outside of the census also), in the form of a yearly statistical year book. It is published in the March of every year. You can find anything and everything about Pakistan, in this book. It has around 150 sections alone, covering everything from male/female ratios to amount of kids, under a certain age, working in particular types of factories. The census dept. (which is part of the statistics division) publishes the % of people of various religions in Pakistan, also.

It is avaiable at http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/APCITY/UNPAN016767.pdf

On the web site, the census burueau maintains a day to day update on the population of Pakistan. Census taking in Pakistan is quite important, and all political parties, and provinces try to make sure there is no hanky-panky, since there seats and influence on resources (water, funding etc.) is decided by it.

Mr. Gill:
In case you miss.
Please read my ilog regarding Pitras & allam Iqbal. Also the poem there.
You might enjoy it.