Lahore ka Jughraphiah

I have been watching this go back and forth for a while now and I am quite amazed it has reached this stage.

Folks, please stop with this demonizing and personal insults. Veeresh wrote a travellogue about a city that existed a long time before he was born and will exist a long time after he departs this planet. It does not require anyone to defend it. The city of Lahore can take care of itself.

Please understand if you want a LOT of tourists to visit your cities and towns then you cannot expect them to only sing praises of your city all the time. If some ``outsider`` did not experience the ``true character`` of city, then whose fault is it? You should all worry if a majority of the people who vist your cities have more or less the same negetive opinion about your city and then if you really care, you should do something to address their points of concern. On the other hand, if I were in your place, I would just ignore them and move on.

Now, YLH, if you want to visit India and only see the slums, the filth and travel only on Bullock carts and write a travellogue about that, trust me you are more than welcome. You are not the first person to do this, I suspect a significant percentage of tourists who come to India do it for that precise reason. In fact, if you come to Karnataka, I may be able to arrange a trip to a couple of villages in a bullock cart and arrange for you to stay in an 100 + year house with no electricity. If you want to get some of your friends, please feel free. The more the merrier.

Now I like reading travellogues. If you guys have something nice to say about Lahore, please write about it. I would love to read it...

#34
(I am here to say that I think poor old Lahore has been glorified for far too long. IMHO, it is just a sad little city with a great past and a doubtful future.)

there was a English writer who said “hell is a city” I agree with him modern cities are concrete and glass jungles, traffic congestion, pollution, overcrowding and crime.
Most people in England dream of living in small sea side towns, or in country, many as soon as their retire relocate there.

In my opinion size does matter, small is beautiful. The most oversubscribed universities are in small historic towns, e.g oxford, Cambridge, durham, york. The most unpopular are in London and Birmingham.

I was a student at york university the history, atmosphere and ambience is unforgettable even to this day, dancing in seedy nightclubs, drinking on the banks of river till sunrise, those were my years of sex drugs and rock’n’roll, with introduction of tuition fees students don’t have it easy. Nice one tony!

ylh,

....... you make us proud!.............. sher-i-lahore, muahfiz-i-mozang, quaid-i-moghulpura, baba-i-gowalmandi, zulifiqar-i-shadman, johar-i-gulberg - pick a tiltle and as a true defender of the great city of lahore you can have it ............

.......... even though naysayers like vereesh will deny it, there is something magical about a city that rouses such passion even in people like me who lived there for only five years or so ............ i do believe that every pakistani secretly wishes they were from lahore and some, like me, have often lied about being from there - it is like a badge of honor ........ the delhites, or whatever they call themselves, are simply jealous because lahore lies on the right side of the border ............

sher-i- lahore ylh zindabad !
lahore zindabad!

hamidm2/51 - it has nothing to do with which side of the border Lahore lies on. It has everything to with the simple fact that Islamabad/Pindi and Karachi are simply light years ahead of this little mofussil backwater on GT Road. Current axis of political decision makers on matters Indo-Pak is Pindi (Manmohan Singh) and Delhi (Musharaf). Current axis on other matters Indo-Pak is Mumbai-Karachi (commerce, crime, films, automobile industry, fishing, oil, banking etc.) Where is this Lahore in any picture, other than some self-imposed grandeur?

morad/50 - please appreciate the fact that I am simply reacting to absurdly grandiose comments on Lahore. I am not belittling what I have observed and experienced in Pakistan, which, by the way, is why I m being invited by the hard core Urdu media to visit again. I mean, their views do differ wildly from mine, but at least they are true to their truths and open to debate? I have been through enough cities on GT Road in India to be able to draw comparisions. I mean, Kanpur was very important at one time, so was Lahore. One is on the banks of the Ganges, other on the Ravi. Both are on GT Road, both have colleges etcetc. You see?

And I keep getting denials from people who have not even bothered to go near the Lahore-Wagah_Attari train, which is my main grouse.

ZahraJ/various - well, I keep getting this thing on size and population, when everybody knows that Lahore and the rest of Pakistan have not had a cencus for like 24 years now. Then, I am told how important Lahore is, when it simply does not seem to be on the map for anything other than feudal Pakistani stuff.

My big ticket issue about Lahore is that for far too long after 1947 have elements from Lahore tried to impose their colonial and feudal attitudes on us. To some extent, we in India have broken free from this. But it doesn;t seem to have happened in Pakistan. Fair enough, no skin off my nose. But then, when I say that as on date, Lahore`s relevance and importance is on par with, say, Kanpur or Karnal or similar, not Delhi or Amritsar or Ludhiana, then I mean that I back it up with something?

And for everybody, it has nothing to do with the hospitality I received. And am promised on my next trip to Pakistan, oncluding to Lahore, in the next few weeks.

Pakistan is as much the land of my fore-fathers as it is for others who live here today. And I have right to a validated viewpoint. And no baba-e-gulberrg-e-gwalamandi will take it away from me.

Well, I have read almost all of the postings on this board, and frankly like many interactors I am fed up with this KarachiLahore thing. I am from karachi and would never live in Lahore. But I have also visited lahore and found it to be an excellent city. Food, as nikki pointed out, is great, people are hospitable and the place has the warmth of life. Now there is no city in the world that is perfect. EVERY city has imperfections and so does Lahore. But it is the centre of entertainment, centre of our fashion Industry, we have the best and oldest colleges and universities in Lahore, plus it is a mixture of modern and conservative values.
I have been to lahore in basant and was at the Lal Haveli of Hseikh Rashid. It was fun. Flying kites, liquor, and good food. Even Ejaz Ahmed the cricketer hosts a after-midnight party at his Haveli for Basant. Lahori`s are open-hearted, loud, funny and fun-loving.

Now Mr. Gill, you are being published alot and have lost your touch. Please write less but write quality things. I have read the ``mazmoon`` in Urdu, and frankly you have done a bad job of translation. The translation should have a flow. It should not be just a piece converted from Urdu to English. Read some translations before writing.
Hamid

freethinker:
Your memory is worse than you think. Because you were right the first time. It is ``Nigaar``.

---

On Panjabis & Urdoobis: ( humour time again)

Hakim Ahmad shuj`aa reminisces of the very good-old days post-partition Lahore when the Ansaars (Panjabis) and Muhajirs (urdubis) truly practised.

This muhajir goes to th Halvaee, and extends his steel glass and asks for a pound yogurt.

The halvaee was non-plussed. In Panjab they buy yogurt in Katoraas (bowls) and milk in glasses. Opposite it is in Lucknow.

So in order to make sure that it is yogurt which is asked for the halzaee repeated & in urdu/panjabi mix said : `` tO paee saab fair issay mein paa`dooN?``

and the customer in a dry tone replied: `` haaN miaN ubb hum jubb yahaaN aa hee gaeN haiN, tO humeiN putaa hai tuum issee mein Paadogay.

CoolAl Sahab... if veeresh bases his entire criticism of Lahore on a visit to the Railway station, which is not nearly as bad as Veeresh wants portray it, its not my fault. The fact is that Veeresh has another agenda... even before he stepped into Lahore he was bashing Lahore.... it is a sick mindset .. full of jealousy and contempt.... not to mention a lame and barely concealed jingoism...

Veeresh`s real objective

You see his objective is to first draw an analogy with Germany... prove that some how India is like `West Germany` and Pakistan is like `East Germany`... it is the old wine of Bharat Mata-ists ... packaged in a new bottle... But the prosperity of Lahore is a thorn for such crazies on your side... these crazies, some of them actually manage to sound some what authentic by making a statement or two that is neutral, are the really dangerous ones....

Veeresh has never hidden his contempt for anything he considers anti-Indian... and he is often wrong ... he is a patriot and an ultra-nationalist Indian who knows as a journalist how to conceal the truth... still back when Arundhati Roy was visiting Lahore... he couldn`t contain his contempt and hatred for all she stands for... no tolerance for an opposing point of view... he is the man of the establishment... a true measure of his character is the posts he puts up here...

-YLH

CoolAl...

Thankfuly Veeresh is the only person I have come across with such fantastic views about Lahore... still we are ready to address his concerns.... but he just doesn`t make any sense.
Most of the things he is saying are not factual... he seems to be fighting some battle with ``WOGs`` who have settled in Dehli... which is funny because a few months ago he was boasting about how more people in Dehli use English as a language... than Lahore.


Most Indians who visit Lahore are closer to the opinion that Aakar Patel recently put up:


Visitors to Pakistan will be shocked at how they have kept their cities and their airports. They are truly world class. India can never be this efficient or clean. Lahore is paradise. It has huge gardens splashed through the middle of its roads. An enormous canal glides through the middle of a thoroughfare. Indians will also be amazed with how much at ease the Lahauri is with his culture and how little this culture has to do with religion.

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00003380&channel=gymkhana&start=0&end=9&page=1&chapter=1

Veeresh...

I haven`t been to your city... and after your lies... I have no desire to. As far as inferiority complexes .... you are the one who is obsessed with putting my city down... I didn`t bring up Dehli you did... None of the cities you`ve mentioned are 8 million strong... or as spread out as Lahore or as politically important, or Historically important ( Congress`s declaration of independence, as well as League`s Pakistan resolution in most recent years).... Your claim that Lahore has no entertainment except for the rich upper class is just BS... I am afraid the youth of the city that frequents Lahore`s old areas in the middle of the night is not all upper class elite. You have to be a real jahil to think that.... Every single point that you have put up is a lie... Anyway ... a simple visit to Alhamra arts council on the Mall road will prove you wrong.... you have grand misconceptions about the city or you just don`t want to see the truth... either way... I suggest that you stay away from Lahore... we dont need an obsessed arrogant dehliwalllah coming to Lahore anyway.... Lahore kay Qadrdanon ki kami nahi... and that is precisely what has pissed the hell out of you...


As for anyone else objecting.... excuse me .. did you not read any of the other people`s posts.... they are all critical of the lies you are putting up... does ZahraJ not count? Malik99 ... and several other Indians and Pakistanis who have called you on your lies.... but this is just another addition to the long list of lies that you`ve been putting up. As for pride... it is Dehli`s pride and joy to be even considered an equal of Lahore... let alone other cities you mention... I was personally very offended when people started to draw those comparisons... You are right about the comparison between Pindi and Dehli... Pindi a military town half the size of Lahore, with one main road extending from one end to another, and the rest of the city around it... is a town that can do justice to Dehli... which is much like Pindi, a town without any palpable character... Lahore is a class apart.... head and shoulders above Pindis and Dehlis of the world...


Even the political importance that this city continues to enjoy ... is historical and old... who ever controlled Lahore controlled the center... why is it that Nehru chose Lahore to declare ``Independence`` as an objective? or Jinnah chose Lahore for the Lahore resolution.... It is a well known fact that Akbar-e-Azam... the greatest of Mughals... loved this city the most... he spent as much time as Lahore as he could... Lahore is the greatest and most important city of Pakistan and indeed of the subcontinent.... sheer numbers of intellectuals, poets, and artists produced by this city are awesome... Every great Pakistani and Indian of the era gone by is related to Lahore some how... this city has been the most important city for centuries.... and the best is still to come... Lahore is about to become the boom town.... and from Pakistan-India peace initiative on the cards .... this city is set to gain the most... While planners in Pakistan look towards Gwadar for the future... I think Lahore will fill those shoes much earlier...


-YLH

Yasser: [As for anyone else objecting.... excuse me .. did you not read any of the other people`s posts.... they are all critical of the lies you are putting up... does ZahraJ not count? Malik99 ... and several other Indians and Pakistanis who have called you on your lies....]

I have not referred to anything written by Veeresh as ``lies``. I have repeatedly interrogated him to acquire further clarification on his points or the intent behind his displeasure. There is a difference. And you should read carefully before making flippant remarks! There is also a basic difference in interacting/discussing a point vs. being defensive on each and everything. With due respect, I do not think that many on Chowk are familiar with the basic art of communication. They are ready to punch the other person right in his/her face using some stupid flowery language. Do not get me wrong if someone is portraying an inaccurate portrayal, he needs to be taken to task. I suggest being realistic and fair.

I am amused to read your mention of Malik 99`s point(s). I thought both of you considered each other liars and what not in the recent past. What happened? Since an Indian pointed out a few things that means you decided to forgo everything. That`s humorous and also childish. Koi Baat Naheen, keep it up.

Some of the characters on this board need to be shipped to the Cotswolds Village in UK. Shall I spell out the names? Why not! Hazrat Khamkhwa and Qibla Echoboom!

...zahra aap ke saath tou main jahannum bhi janay ko tayyar hun...aap hukm karen...;)

ps: vaise jubb aap ka saath ho tou jahhanum ki kya zaroorat...?

ylh,

.... so it all comes down to pindi bashing ...........

............. there was a time when the rajas of dhamial and dhok piraan faqiraan would take it lying down from city slickers and other shady characters, but no more !... enough is enough!

...... there was a time when you smart keisters could get by with things like :

`` ay khoti kus ni ``
``khoti rajay ni``
`` raja kus na``
``raja khoti na !``


........ but we have come a long way and now when some smart alecks ask, `` ay khoti kus nee``, we don`t miss a beat and reply, `` khoti rajay ni, pur kus thowadi maoo ni !``

............. in any case, pindi/islambad might not be much compared to lahore, but it is still home and if anyone is going to make fun of it, we will do it ourselves ! ..........

p.s. there has been a significant decrease in raja bashing since they came up with the retort , but the donkeys are not amused at this callous betrayal by their masters ........

#61 Whatever: Being a lousy retard, I understand your agony on being shipped to a nice place like Cotswolds Village. Accept my apologies for the above suggestion. Feel free to go to hell - your destination of choice :)

....with you! anywhere...;)

People People People! every city in pakistan has its own touch! So please, refrain from bashing each other. Bashing each other like that will prove whether Lahore is better than Pindi or Pindi is better than Karachi. It is useless discussion and I think we should focus on more important things.
hamidm2 you are funny. :) I like the little joke : `` khoti rajay ni, pur kus thowadi maoo ni !`` I will remember this one. I crack these sort of jokes with my Punjabi friends. You will agree with me on one thing. Cracking jokes in Punjabi has its own pleasure.