Lahore ka Jughraphiah

#73: Shut Up!

Veeresh/various: I understand where you are coming from. Historically, many Delhiites have a tendency to glorify Lahore. Glorification (as you may or may not know) does not require 100% accuracy or perfection. For one person, eating his roadside favorite dish may mean a whole different world to him. For the other person, it may be part of his daily routine. For the 3rd one, it may mean nothing. Now, the 1st fellow can do all the glorification he can. It will never mean the same thing to the rest. Thank you for providing a counter view on how Pitras viewed Lahore.

Mantolives:
Refer to you mail # 53 and other mails

Please note that you do not have to defend and glorify Lahore. Lahore is a great city. The city speaks for itself. Any person who has visited Lahore (especially recently) is clearly very impressed.

I also think that comparison of cities is a stupid time wasting exercise. Lahore, Delhi, Karachi, Bombay etc. are all different cities holding different attractions for different people. A settled person from Bombay would not prefer moving to or living in Delhi or lahore or Karachi and the same goes for a karachite not wanting to move to lahore.
Stating the above, I would also like to point out that in your effort to glorigy Lahore, please refrain from making sweeping and superlative statements and in the process demean and belittle other cities of Pakistan. It also takes away the forcefulness from your other very well pointed arguments.

Veeresh is a middle aged, loud, self-opinionated person. Typical of any well-off Punjabi either side of the border. But the what are you Omar Quraishi? An ill mannered boor? I appreciate your exposing his lies, but your intemperate language makes me disgusted.
-
Scott

well shri veeresh jee -- finally you realized that no good running around nanga -- u will find a reception committee on arrival at the wagah border or the spotlessly clean allama iqbal international airport -- that is if your visa isnt revoked -- will have to speak to sherpao sahib on that one :)

Zahraj

If Veeresh claims that I am the only one objecting here... and if Malik99 is also objecting... should I or should I not point that out? Does it matter what kind of scum I think Malik99 is? or what kind of scum Malik99 thinks I am? It is a simple fact isn`t it?



Veeresh,

There is no logic to your posts... basically. Despite repeated questions you haven`t been able to clarify...

As for Lahore-Dehli comparisons.... like I said.... We don`t want it ... who would compare an urban slum like Dehli populated by people like you who are WOGs in denial to be compared to a city like Lahore... Lahore is a city with the great past , a great present and an even greater future.... it is the greatest city of the subcontinent... and people like you are simply jealous... hence we are back to square one ... after all the millions of words you wrote...

I never started this comparison .... you did... with that ``People in Dehli speak more English... so Dehli in better than Lahore`` bit...


Do us a favor... Please don`t come to Lahore... or Pakistan... we can do without additional bigotry.... we already have MMA to take care of that department...

-YLH

seems the pakistan `expert` is also an expert on indian airline meals

check out http://www.airlinemeals.net/meals/AirSahara.html (towards the end -- with pics of course)

[Bored by the ongoing discussion, I started surfing on the internet.]

This current article is definitely highlighting the Pitras B in many :)

Manto:

Deep down inside, you very well KNOW that you are NOT fair. I will leave it at that.

The wires have definately crossed on this board......

PS: While we are on the topic of fairness.... please do note that Veeresh ji has still not answered your politely worded question.... he has tap danced around it. I have absolutely no patience left with this ultra-nationalist fanatic anymore who poses as a peacenik at other times... it seems that he is always without exception wrong ... and the figures he produces out of his rearend are horrendous ...


Now you are welcome to be nice to him... ask him politely several times the same question hoping in vain for the answer... but I will call him for what he really is... a liar.

Zahraj...

Please don`t leave it at that ... Fair about what? About Lahore? About Veeresh? About Malik99?

Please do elaborate? I actually have no such guilty conscience.... to the best of my knowledge I am completely fair thank God... if Veeresh starts posting blatant lies about Lahore... he needs to be called on them once and for all... and you know as well as I do that he is not `fair` ... perhaps much more unfair than I can be.

I am not sure what you are on about in this post.

-YLH

Mr. Gill:
In case you miss.
Please read my ilog regarding Pitras & allam Iqbal. Also the poem there.
You might enjoy it.

vereesh #76: ``thank you for Romair`s inputs on the Pakistan Gvernment Census, but would either of you like to review the credibility of that first? Please note, in one of my episodes, I did mention that while in Islamabad and `Pindi I did try to acquire maps and census data. And subsequently, I did try to analyse the credibility of this dat. The PHRC has some interestng things to say about the data and statistics. For example, just how many Buddhists are there in Pakistan today? What is the female-male birth ratio even in urban centres like Karachi?``

I am unable to understand the point you are trying to make. You had stated that there had been no census in Pakistan for a quarter century. I do not recall you stating that there had been a census, which in your opinion was not accurate. Now you are stating that the census of 98 was not accurate.

How exactly can you state whether it was accurate or inaccurate when you did not even know it existed? Did you get a chance to read through it? Did you analyse it? Do you have any references that point to inaccuracies in it? If that is the case, then kindly highlight. As well as explain, why you failed to acknowledge it in the first place.

You have also stated that the PHRC had some questions about it. Human Rights Commissions in every country have certain questions about census data and anything else that their govt. does. As do political parties (as do I for that matter). That is how they operate. They can then take their complaints to the court and get it validated, one way or the other. They tend to do that on issues, where they think their has been gross injustice. And not on issues where they are not quite sure whether they are right or wrong. To the best of my knowledge all provincial and federal parties of Pakistan have accepted the 98 census (barring a few complaints here and there). All the negotiations for water, taxes etc. by provincial govts. are held under census data info.

There is a statistics department in Pakistan, which provides extremely detailed data (outside of the census also), in the form of a yearly statistical year book. It is published in the March of every year. You can find anything and everything about Pakistan, in this book. It has around 150 sections alone, covering everything from male/female ratios to amount of kids, under a certain age, working in particular types of factories. The census dept. (which is part of the statistics division) publishes the % of people of various religions in Pakistan, also.

It is avaiable at http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/APCITY/UNPAN016767.pdf

On the web site, the census burueau maintains a day to day update on the population of Pakistan. Census taking in Pakistan is quite important, and all political parties, and provinces try to make sure there is no hanky-panky, since there seats and influence on resources (water, funding etc.) is decided by it.

Veeresh:

Has it occurred to you that the modern day Pakistanis and modern day Lahoris are just as proud of their modern day Pakistan and Lahore as you are about India. And that they don`t want to be lectured by any Indian or Dilliwala. Respect their feelings and views, only then they will respect your feelings and views.

Thank you.

Anil Kapuria

Mr. echoboom:

I don`t claim to be an authority on Iqbal but I have read him all my life; not only his urdu kalam, I have read his Persian kalam and his ``Reconstruction of Religious Thought...`` also including some critical works on him by others. So I believe I know a few things about Iqbal and his kalam. I had published a translation of Pitrus` ``Saveray Jo Kal...`` on Chowk, in case you missed it. I had mentioned in Bokhari`s introduction the poem ``Aik Syedzaday Kay Naam``.

When Bokhari met Ismat Chughtaii the first time in Bombay (at Taj), both of them were nervous. Pitrus in an attempt to impress her started dishing out his `fast ones` one after the other. Ismat stopped him and said, ``I have read all this in your books, let us talk something else.`` May I suggest to you also ``Let us talk something else.``

I don`t know a thing about you and your deep and extensive knowledge which gives you the authority to pass judgement on my writings. Please give me a few references to your published work from which I could benefit and may be use them as source material in my future work. When I make a statement which needs evidence, I give appropriate references.

I don`t know many of the interactors here so I try to use my resources to place them. I try to take their criticism as politely as is possible for me. I would surely like to place you also. I am not writing this post out of disrespect to you or any body else but I do have the right to know your station because you`re so critical about my work. Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill