Lahore ka Jughraphiah

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There goes most of my travelogue, last part. Anyways, see where a few small comments about super-fine dust of Lahore got me? What you did miss out on, Gill Sahib, is the rather top-heavy ``Government babu`` presence in Lahore.

Gill Sahib, you are now about to join the list of non-patriots for your very Mantoesque description of Lahore. The real Manto, I mean.

Pitrus Bukhari was one of top class Urdu humorist and satirist in the subcontinent. He was also a head honcho at the all India radio before partition. He brought Radio Pakistan to life and along with his brother Zulf Bukhari, was a major sponsor of arts and classical music in Pakistan. He represented Pakistan at the UN. In between, he wrote little nuggets of humor and satire. He died of natural causes but today I see that he was murdered posthumously by Dr. Gill.

Gill Sahib, I apologize and I don’t mean to disparage you or your translation.

Translation of satirical work IMO is the hardest thing as the satirist plays with the words in his/her writing and often those words just lose meaning when translated into another language.

I wish you had given up on this translation when you first realized that how subtly Pitras used the word “Ravi” and you were unable to carry the pun in English.

“You will find this river near the two bridges (one for railway trains and the other is the road bridge) where it lies in the sand bed; the act of flowing has stopped since long. It is therefore difficult to say if the city is located on the right or the left bank.”

It annoys me to even discuss what you have written above. Literary pieces are not translated exactly. I am not going to continue on this as it really pains me.

You are a very good writer about science and things related to science and that is where your talent lies. Please don’t stretch yourself. It is not necessary.

I apologize again.

Mr. HP:

Thank you for your comments. The pun of “Ravi Zaeef” was only one of several situations where I nearly gave up. This situation, I thought, I had saved to some extent by drawing attention to the involved double entendre. A couple of other situations were more difficult.
And you know what. At a couple of places in the original Urdu script, there are some “sags” also. Quite a bit of the beauty of the original essay was lost in the translation but whatever remains in it has pleased a couple of other readers and probably there are some more who’ll enjoy it.

I thank you for your compliments on my skills in writing on science and other related issues but there again there are some who believe I should do something else.

Let me give you a brief explanation. I am not totally stranger in the field of Urdu literature although I admit I am not quite up to the current generation of the Urdu writers. All my life, I’ve been reading Iqbal, Ghalib, Faiz, Faraz, Manto, Pitrus, Krishan Chandar, Bedi, Ismat and many others. I’ve read from Qasmi, Shahab,Wajdah Tabassum, Ashfaq, Mumtaz Mufti, and so on. I admit my translation was not up to your mark, I’m sorry for that; the fact is that there is room for improvent in whatever you write or choose to do.

I did this piece to take a break from Science and Religion. I’m shortly returning to Religion to face a battery of malicious criticism. Many believe I don’t have business writing on religion either because they know better..

Thanks again for your comments. Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

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Dear Veeresh sahab....

The one part you missed out on was that this was written more than thirty five years ago by Pitras Bukhari Sahab... who produced Pakistan`s greatest satire... the Principal of Government college.... this is simply a translation...

I don`t want to get into a debate about Lahore .... Your jealousy of the city is rather well known ... thankfuly there are enough Indians who have been to Pakistan who don`t share your views about Lahore. Unlike you they haven`t based their entire analysis of a city while passing through the Railway station which is now in one corner of Old Lahore. Please refer to Akar Patel`s article and Dost Mittar`s articles... they, unlike you, actually went around the whole city.

But you see ...your comment about Freethinker being non-patriot is rather funny given the context you see... And while we are on the topic of ``real Manto`` vs ``New Manto``.... maybe contemporary analysis requires New Mantoesque analysis as it is more current and true...

-YLH

Jaahil ko ugar jehl kaa , inaa`am diyaa jaaey
iss hadsaa-e vaqt ko--kya naam diyaa jaaey ?
maikhanoaN kee tauheen hai, rindoaN kee htak hai
kum zrf kay haathoaN meiN ugar jaam diya jaaey.

---

``hUmm aisay saada diloaN kee niazmandee sey
butoaN ney kee haiN, jahaN meiN khudaeeyaaN kya kya``

The simple-folk that we are, respectful & polite
has led many stoneheads behave like gods.

---

Guys, pay attention to the subtitle: ``Lahore is Lahore.`` No matter who thinks what, Lahore is unique in its many ways. There is no reason and no logic for discovering Lahore by any other means, as Pitrus suggested, you can discover its wealth of culture through `Lahore is L:ahore.`

In the month of July, 2004, Saima Shah put me in touch with Professor Robert Anderson, Professor of Communication, Simon Fraser University, who wanted tp gather information about Dayal Singh (of Dayal singh College and Dayal Singh Library in Lahore), a Philanthropist. Professor Anderson is writing a book about Lahore (?). I was amazed at the extent of his knowledge regarding Lahore and the people who were associated with this city of culture. To cut it short, it`s not only us, the natives of Lahore, who are enamored by it, it has bewitched people all over the world.

Wishing you all well.

Mohammad Gill

YLH/06, how can one be ``jealous`` of a city?

Yes, let us put things in their proper perspective, sure. And a comparative with Delhi is just one aspect.

All my life I have been told by a group of people that Lahore this, Lahore that. Lahore nahee vekheyaa te kamme nahee. At the same time, for quite some time now I have been trying to get to the bottom of this Lahore-fascination with our Wagah-Attari candle wavers. On the other hand, feedback about Lahore from friends of mine who have been to Lahore for one reason or the other, including in 1971 as well as subsequently, gives me a different perspective.

So I decide to take a look for myself on a variety of parameters.

a) Size:- From the air, flying in from the West towards Delhi, you overfly both Lahore and Amritsar. On a clear night you can even see ``the fence``. But what`s more, you can see both cities. Amritsar, as far as being lit up is concerned, seems to be about twice the diameter. And Amritsar is not the largest city in Indian Punjab by a long shot.

b) Atmospheric pollution:- tell me about it. Leave aside the fine dust on the Wagah-Lahore segment, which is due to mass scale de-foresting, the existing levels of air pollution in Lahore are just inhuman.

c) Cultural Scene:- there was not one theatre, music or ``cultural`` programme listed in the media during the period I was there, other than a performance at the Race Course by a few rock groups from India and Pakistan. There was no evidence of street theatre. There was no sign of free inter-mingling of young men and women at the street level. There was ample evidence of monetary collection in the name of religion and Kashmir all over the place.

d) Human rights:- the kind of terrible behaviour by lower-level government persons that I saw during my trip to and from Lahore was and still is unmatched anywhere on the sub-Continent. I have plenty of observations on this subject, but just one should suffice - an immigration staff (the black Pathan Suit ones) picks up the baby of one of the travellers on the Wagah-Lahore stretch, and shakes the baby till the child`s parents and grandparents give whatever was demanded. Does it matter if that poor person was Indian/Pakistani/Hindu/Muslim, I don`t know?

e) Public transport:- the less said the better about the state of the trains and tracks. And as for the city as well as rural buses . . .

f) Idle rich, inertia levels, conspiracy theories and ``control``:- from what I could make out, on this, Lahore takes the cake, the baby and the bathwater too. Just one example - look at the cost of newspapers and magazines? To an outsider, the who think stinks of a few people trying to keep a larger number of people down.

Yes, the spirit of the people, the warmth of the man on the street and the sheer dynamic pulse . . . all this and more.

But that`s the people, Yasser, making the best that they can out of a situation. Even in the worst of Socialist days, for example, the people you met in the East European countries were any day warmer and better to meet up with than those from the more ``advanced`` countries.

I am not jealous about Lahore. Sad, maybe. It was nothing like what I was told it would be.

And in addition, the biggest validation I made was this:- Lahore has not been able to shake of its feudal and colonial past, in fact, it has simply added to it. Which is why, I think, for a select few opinion-makers, Lahore still remains the promised land that they still dream about.

Dream on.

``Including in 1971 and subsequently``

This is the year 2004... please wake up.

Veeresh,

You just plain and simple wrong... and absolutely arrogant. Thats all I can say.

So you are basing your expertise about Lahore on ``overflight`` and the ``railway`` station... very neutral of you.... You really have no clue... and when I told a visiting Indian about your comments... she was all laughter ... replying ``These Dehli wallahs live in a fantasy world``... see then again she was not naive enough to base her entire experience on the train station... and overflight ... this is universal view.

May I suggest next time you come around Basant time, allow me to show you around... and use the extensive Daewoo, Double Decker and other Bus transport system... You will find that your view was not only misplaced but based on extreme ignorance.


-YLH

veeresh # 9 - The Lahore you have described is NOT the Lahore that I grew up in or the one I visit almost every year. Are there problems and issues in Lahore? Yes. Is there room to make Lahore better? Yes! But your analysis could not be farther from truth.

I have read Mantolives ilog (which presumably will make its way to this board as well) and I agree with his assertions. Please read that.

For a man who has claimed to have roamed four corners of this world, you have surprisingly managed to cling on to the old ``my country is better than yours`` mantra. You belong to a country where the city of Kolkata is located. That is the most horrifyingly filthy city in the ENTIRE world, as attested universally by world`s information sources. You should have been a bit humble before pointing your biased fingers towards Lahore.

Aakar Patel`s View vs Veeresh Malik`s arrogance:


Sources of Aakar Patel`s views: Residence in Lahore for a few weeks as a Journalist, Following the cricket series between Pakistan and India, an Open mind, no hang ups jealousy, not being born in 1971.

Visitors to Pakistan will be shocked at how they have kept their cities and their airports. They are truly world class. India can never be this efficient or clean. Lahore is paradise. It has huge gardens splashed through the middle of its roads. An enormous canal glides through the middle of a thoroughfare. Indians will also be amazed with how much at ease the Lahauri is with his culture and how little this culture has to do with religion.

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00003380&channel=gymkhana&start=0&end=9&page=1&chapter=1




Sources of our friend Veeresh Malik`s expertise on Lahore: ``Railway Station``, ``Overflight``, and ``friends who have visited Pakistan in 1971``

Despite Veeresh Malik`s provocative misrepresentation about my city, so far I have refrained from making comments about Dehli as I have never visited Dehli myself (nor do I wish to after knowing that some of its most eloquent representatives are turning out to be quite twisters of facts), but the kind of outright inaccuracies that are being put by a Dehli Wallah (who has no regard for his own chita sar) of all people about Lahore... I am going to have to recollect some of the things I have heard from people who have visited both Lahore and Dehli....

I am sad that it has to come to this.... but when a Dehliwallah (of the city once hailed as the most polluted in Asia) starts talking about air pollution, it can cause fits of laughter. Let us not compare Lahore and Dehli in this respect... a valid argument would be that Dehli has roughly 4 to 5 million more people than Lahore has... but puh-lease... from very neutral and even Indian sources, what I have heard about Dehli and the comparison with Lahore... The air is supposed to be significantly better in Lahore...


Facts about Size: Lahore has 8 million people. It is spread from Ravi, right down to Multan Road... and spreading some 42 Km towards Kasur.... that means Lahore is extremely spread out... perhaps more so than Dehli.

Atmospheric Pollution : I have already pointed out that coming from a Dehli wallah such an assertion is laughable... Every environmentalist knows the truth about this statement... so Ha Ha...

Cultural Scene: Lahore`s cultural scene is world famous... We have a wide range of plays, and theatre which is rather extensive.... infact you will find almost all kind of theatre in Pakistan, from the fancy English Plays, to the vulgar Punjabi ones for the consumption of the populace.... There is no cultural scene like Lahore especially between November and March .... the whole city is nothing but a huge cultural festival...

Human Rights: Your tale is so incredible that there isn`t even a chance of it being true... However the tales I`ve heard about Dehli`s cops beating up and sodomizing young men are even worse.... maybe they are untrue as well...

Public Transport: Public Transport in the last few years has become at par with New Jersey atleast... there are multiple Bus companies, the best one being Daewoo which runs both in city and out city buses... again there are several kinds of buses... I am willing to bet that there is not one city in the entire subcontinent that has the efficient Bus transport system like the Daewoo inter city and Lahore City Buses, and the Double Decker Buses that were recently acquired.... Infact I am willing to bet that the Daewoo Buses that run to other cities, with in-bus service, bus hostesses, comfortable seats will be a notch higher than Veeresh Malik`s country`s national air carrier.


Male-female interaction: Muslims generally are more conservative... but step into a Shopping Mall ... any shopping Mall in Lahore these days... and you will find women extremely active in economic life... this is true of Lahore... not necessarily of other cities in Pakistan... for example even in Karachi, I don`t see women working in the malls in such large numbers.


You are a funny guy Veeresh.... you desperately want to make that comparison don`t you ... between East Germany and West Germany.... well that analogy doesn`t work for several reasons.... but also because India is not some capitalist haven free of poverty... infact quite the contrary, the general impression that most Indians leave is that Lahore is remarkably less poorer, remarkably brighter, and happier.... Next time please refrain from making comments which have no roots in reality.


Sorry to burst your little superiority bubble yet again... but some how you always seem to live in this huge bubble that needs to be burst... this bubble of ignorance, arrogance and blind eye...

-YLH

Veeresh: Some of your expectations are unrealistic, but your argument on the cultural scenario is right on the money. There is way too much focus on supporting Kashmiris and Afghanis. If a tourist visits the country then it will make them wonder. On the other hand, even the expats get concerned on the prevalent mania.

Freethinker: Out of curiosity, are the questions at the end of this article part of the feature on Lahore?

[Male-female interaction: Muslims generally are more conservative...... ]

To correct your above assertion: Muslims generally are hypocrites but they like to wear a facade of being conservative. That`s much more closer to reality. Let`s accept it.