An Air Canada Flagging

ahmedzai #109 Glad to see your post on chowk. You right - lurking wasnt the right word that I used.

I think the points you make are very incisive and valid. the first point being that this article (``it tries to raise the emotional level of an average Muslim just along the line Al Qaeda and extremist religious parties are doing all over the world to turn us against the West. `` and the second that ``innocents Pakistanis surely fell into the trap knowing little ``. Too many people in Pakistan are too ready to believe claptrap spread about the US. (I remember how the US embassy was burnt in Pakistan and one young marine defending the staff was shot dead in the late 1970s because someone spread the rumor that an attempted takeover of Mecca was done by the US - it turned out it was the iranians with the new-found fervor who were behind it. of course no one bothered to even show up before the iranian embassy).

It is for this reason that I am so disgusted by people like Shahid M. and urstruly who live and enjoy the fruits of the west while being perfectly happy to spread nonsense about it as the do on chowk. This bad mouthing of the western countries these people live in helps no one - least of all the thousands of Pakistanis who apply every day for visas to the US and other western countries.

RE: Ahmadzai wrote - ``My humble submission on this article is as follows: Shahid`s article has a weakness in that it tries to raise the emotional level of an average Muslim just along the line Al Qaeda and extremist religious parties are doing all over the world to turn us against the West. ``

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If there is a post that made me really mad it is this one. It is a foolish yet dangerous post which takes totally unrelated thoughts and ideas, sews them together unscrupulously, and then ``humbly`` presently them as truths. How does one make these conjectures????
Shahid

tahmed32 and Shahid:

Since I am in the travel mode (and am not lurking :-))these days, I spend too little time on the net. My humble submission on this article is as follows:

Shahid`s article has a weakness in that it tries to raise the emotional level of an average Muslim just along the line Al Qaeda and extremist religious parties are doing all over the world to turn us against the West. If it were written from a neutral perspective telling us without an emotional undertone that Shahid as a Canadian was meted out wrong treatment and that he is taking Air Canada to court (which he probably will after reading so many posts from dost-mittar) that would have been way better thing to do. As new immigrants and expatriates, it would be much better to show us the way to stand up for our rights then to fall in the pit of self-pity.

When my family and I go through various checks at the airports around the world post 9/11 I thank our stars that we no longer travel under the flimsy security offerings of pre-9/11 era. Just imagine how insecure we were while flying in those days? Any Tom, Dick, Harry, Abdul or Gopiram could have boarded the plane and hijacked it.

Giving the touch of religious or ethnic emotionalism reminds me of an event that took place in Rawalpindi 6 months ago. A house of Jamate Islami activist was raided and an Al Qaeda member hiding there was nabbed. In her interview to ARY Digital, the sister of the activist told viewers, amongst other things, ``they broke into the house, abused the household and they were speaking English``. Actually, she was trying to imply that they were Americans from CIA, because the news of CIA actively persuing Al Qaeda inside Pakistani cities was being spread by MMA Mullas to raise anti-American emotionalism among the masses. The innocents Pakistanis surely fell into the trap knowing little that the member of anti-terrorism squad of Pakistani Police speaks in English frequently following in the footsteps of their officers from military and para-military.

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Shahid, I can relate very well with you on this issue. I was denied driving license twice in the Washington state, and was later interrogated by anti-terrorism taskforce during the special registration process because someone who has very similar name and date of birth is detained for running a terrorist cell in Oregon. Interestingly, that guy is an American. So now my records also include the information regarding who I am not. :) I think using biometrics more effectively will fix some of these issues in future. Other than that, my conclusion is that in this conflict, the best thing one can do is to patiently stay focused on one’s goals in life and hope not to get caught in the crossfire. Thanks.

RE: #103 - ``Look at the bright side, this problem will be solved probably in the next generation, provided you are judicial with your children`s names.``

kkkandk, One step ahead of you...I thought I had it all planned out by naming my future first-born Ed Kennedy...can`t do that now. Will have to settle for Henry Kissinger. Now if only had I those aqualine, European looks. Oh well!

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#100 shahid
So you`re in exalted company after all! I just heard that some other US lawmakers have come forward with the complaint that they are required to show EXTRA IDENTIFICATION when they fly. Perhaps that`s the case with you as well. Unless canada also has a process to clear your name from a no-fly list (how can you clear your name from a nonexisting list?), you probably should carry your passport with you when you travel.

Sorry for the long paste, but this is rather funny!
Enjoy.

NYT
August 20, 2004
Senator? Terrorist? A Watch List Stops Kennedy at Airport
By RACHEL L. SWARNS

WASHINGTON, Aug. 19 - The meeting had all the hallmarks of an ordinary Congressional hearing. There was Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, discussing the problems faced by ordinary citizens mistakenly placed on terrorist watch lists. Then, to the astonishment of the crowd attending a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Thursday, Mr. Kennedy offered himself up as Exhibit A.

Between March 1 and April 6, airline agents tried to block Mr. Kennedy from boarding airplanes on five occasions because his name resembled an alias used by a suspected terrorist who had been barred from flying on airlines in the United States, his aides and government officials said.

Instead of acknowledging the craggy-faced, silver-haired septuagenarian as the Congressional leader whose face has flashed across the nation`s television sets for decades, the airline agents acted as if they had stumbled across a fanatic who might blow up an American airplane. Mr. Kennedy said they refused to give him his ticket.

``He said, `We can`t give it to you`,`` Mr. Kennedy said, describing an encounter with an airline agent to the rapt audience. `` `You can`t buy a ticket to go on the airline to Boston.` I said, `Well, why not?` He said, `We can`t tell you.` ``

``Tried to get on a plane back to Washington,`` Mr. Kennedy continued. `` `You can`t get on the plane.` I went up to the desk and said, `I`ve been getting on this plane, you know, for 42 years. Why can`t I get on the plane?` ``

The hearing room erupted in laughter.

Mr. Kennedy said his situation highlighted the odyssey encountered by people whose names had mistakenly appeared on terrorist watch lists or resembled the names of suspected terrorists on such lists. In April, the American Civil Liberties Union sued the government on behalf of seven airline passengers who said they had wrongly been placed on no-fly lists or associated with names on the lists and could not find a way to clarify their identities.

In Mr. Kennedy`s case, airline supervisors ultimately overruled the ticket agents in each instance and allowed him to board the plane. But it took several weeks for the Department of Homeland Security to clear the matter up altogether, the senator`s aides said.

Just days after Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge called Mr. Kennedy in early April to apologize and to promise that the problems would be resolved, another airline agent tried to stop Mr. Kennedy from boarding a plane yet again. The alias used by the suspected terrorist on the watch list was Edward Kennedy, said David Smith, a spokesman for the senator.

At the hearing, Mr. Kennedy wondered how ordinary citizens could navigate the tangled bureaucracy if a senator had so much trouble. ``How are they going to be able to get to be treated fairly and not have their rights abused?`` he asked.

Asa Hutchinson of the Department of Homeland Security, who was testifying at the Senate hearing, said his department was working to address the situation. He said travelers with such problems should contact the ombudsman at the Transportation Security Administration, a division of Homeland Security, who would help them take steps to clarify their identities.

``There is a process to clear names,`` said Mr. Hutchinson, the department`s under secretary for border security. ``But it does illustrate the importance of improving the whole system, which we are very aggressively working to do.``

On Monday, Mr. Hutchinson told Congress that Homeland Security officials planned to take over the checking of names of passengers against the no-fly lists. The responsibility is now carried out by the airlines, to ensure that terror suspects do not board airplanes and that law enforcement officials are promptly notified of potential security risks.

Advocates for tougher screening requirements say the current system is ineffective because the government does not provide the airlines with a comprehensive set of watch lists, in part because some of that information is classified. Civil libertarians also cite instances in which airlines have mistakenly denied passengers the right to fly.

The ticket agents who tried to block Mr. Kennedy from boarding planes to Washington, Boston, Palm Beach and New York worked for US Airways, Senate officials said. Amy Kudwa, a US Airways spokeswoman, acknowledged that Mr. Kennedy was a frequent passenger, but declined to comment on the incidents.

Lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union said they did not know how many people had been mistakenly placed on watch lists. But they said the sluggish responses from the airline and the government to Mr. Kennedy`s efforts to clear his name demonstrated the absurdity of the no-fly system.

``It demonstrates all those things that we found problems with in the first place, `` said Reginald Shulford of the A.C.L.U.``If you`re Ted Kennedy, you can call a friend,`` Mr. Shulford said. ``If you`re an average citizen you cannot. You can complain to the Department of Homeland Security, but to no avail.``

At the hearing, Mr. Kennedy emphasized his concern for passengers stuck on no-fly lists. But he tried to make light of his own troubles.

He said, to much laughter, that he did not believe the mistake was a conspiracy engineered by his Republican colleagues. And as Mr. Hutchinson offered up his apologies, Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, responded jokingly in kind.

Mr. Hutchinson said, ``Senator, we do regret that inconvenience to you.``

Mr. Hatch said, ``Quit smiling when you say that.``

Senator Kennedy Flagged (must be an ira connectoin).

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&ncid=718&e=5&u=/ap/20040820/ap_on_go_co/kennedy_terror_list

dawg, we all shall perish as civilizatoins, its what legacy we leave behind. greeks and romans have left behind plenty of legacy, every time you go over an arched bridge or participate in a ``forum`` such as this, the legacy hounds you.

Hey DO YOU KNOW WHO IS THE BIGGEST PIMP IN THIS WHOLE WORLD. Let me tell you.. its USA and the rest of the world is like its whores and what do you think if a whore slaps you her pimp is right behind her, so take this treatment as a worthless whore slap and keep your head tall and walk away with honor. What does USA think it can twist arms of any one by its force then lets look at history; Romans and Greeks also had that kind of military might but they also perished, so my friend their time is near too.

Folks
we are actually more worried about the possiblity of jihadis getting hold of enriched uranimum and causing a few orange glows, which will send the whole world in a deep economic and psychological recession, follwed by wars, famines and sickeness and untold misery. while we think human rights are important, its human life as we know it is at stake. so let us please keep things in perspective for sake of poor people of this world who will bear the main brunt of this turmoil. osama and his tribe will buy their way out of it, but pakis and indians will be happy to get a piece of bread by selling their loved ones.

so, for the sake of saving innocent children from starving in the future, please be vigilant.

Urstruly#95

Samajhane vale samajh gaye hain
Na samajhe jo anaarhi hain!

But you are no anaarhi, and if I explain more, it will shift the focus of discussion in a different direction. So, let`s leave it at that!

i would ask all our brothers to show-up at the peace bridge and ask for asylum to the US. US is a land of human rights, and will accept you if you show them how the Canuks dont care for civil rights. Here is a story how in the US profiling is taken very seriously, even when the security of its own Vice President is in question.

http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/dailystar/32301.php

A rally organizer for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign asked Teri Hayt, the Star`s managing editor, to disclose the journalist`s race on Friday. After Hayt refused, the organizer called back and said the journalist probably would be allowed to photograph the vice president.

``It was such an outrageous request, I was personally insulted,`` Hayt said later.

Danny Diaz, a spokesman for the president`s re-election campaign, said the information was needed for security purposes.

``All the information requested of staff, volunteers and participants for the event has been done so to ensure the safety of all those involved, including the vice president of the United States,`` he said.

Diaz repeated that answer when asked if it is the practice of the White House to ask for racial information or if the photographer, Mamta Popat, was singled out because of her name. He referred those questions to the U.S. Secret Service, which did not respond to a call from the Star Friday afternoon.