An Air Canada Flagging

Tahmed

Take it easy man - otherwise you will pop an artery. You are singing this ``Hate-filled-Indians-bashing-Pakis`` routine for a long time. As pointed out here many times - it don`t really matter. Pakis/muslims are very much in trouble around the world and hate-filled Indians are not the reason for that. You guys have really done it to yourselves.

Also ease up on racist/bigoted slurs .... your slur on ``elephant god``, racist remark about ``saradr at high-noon`` is just proof of your low-class/bigoted upbringing. Your facade is breaking down.

Urstruly:
Doolhay na sahi, par baraati zaroor hain!
I have probably more muslim Canadian friends than you do (and have been ``randomly screened`` too). At least in Ottawa, we do not make much difference between Indians and Pakistanis most of the time. Let me give you a recent example. Last Thursday, I went to a tribute to my late friend Moin Ashraf for his writing. Moin (`Mike` to us) was among the first desi settlers in Ottawa. The function was arranged as a tribute to Indo Canadian writers by the Indian High Commission as part of its week-long celebration of India`s independence day. What would surprise you however is that Ashraf was in fact a Pakistani (a muhajir from India) who always felt more comfortable with his Indian friends even though married to the daughter of a very prominent Pakistani, Begum Shaista Ikramullah. He is by no means an exception. When recently, a young Pakistani boy was arrested (he is still in jail) under POTA, the best character certificate in the local newspaper came from his Hindu school-mate.
You may find it hard to believe but we do try to feel each other`s pain.

Shahid: are you still whining? I think that instead of bumping people like you off plains, canadians should put them on the plane - with a one way ticket to jeddah or mirpur (you choice).

urstruly to dost mittar: ``You are neither a muslim nor an Arab``. The same can be said for you. Only difference is that he knows it and you dont.

mohar: actually muslims are doing quite well the world over in case you havent noticed. the average income of most muslim countries (excluding pakistan and bangladesh which are in the same cesspool as india) is higher, much higher in many cases, than most desi countries. and muslims are now a significant political constituency in nearly every major western nation. contrary to the whinings of shahid m. in this article, and contrary to the delusions of many indians on chowk, the fact is that muslims and muslim places of worship are treated with great respect in the west. so it is time for indians to wake up and smell the coffee.

the ironic thing is (as many indians themselves noted during their visit to pakistan) that it is only in Pakistan that indians have been treated warmly. obviously most pakistanis have not come to chowk to see for themselves the hatred that boils in the minds of ``educated`` indians.

Dost Mitter

Unfortunately the matter has gone beyond the individual level and now it has gone upto a civilizational level. At individual level there are always good people there. For example, there are many Germans who are credited with saving Jewish lives. Similarly, during Partition, there were many Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs who saved each others lives, but that did not stop millions from getting murdered. I am pretty sure that if today ethnic cleansing of Muslims starts in West there will be some Westerners who will try to save some Muslims. But in this present day war that West has declared on Islam, from the evangilist point of view, the `Rapture` has already occurred, therefore, from now on everything is irreversible. Although, any war, when in progress, is a highly fluid situation and no one can predict what the utimate outcome would be, but fact on the ground is that the West is losing pathetically at least on moral and political front (and to some extent militarily as well). This will make them even more intolerant and frustrated so their demands from Muslims residing in their lands that they should declare whether `they are with them or with us` will increase. Muslim expatriates are in a quandry - most of them left their countries escaping from political oppression, lawlessness, hunger, disease, and poverty. They have started a comfortable life here where they have dignity and relative affluence and their children are safe and well fed. They would not want anything to do with their war torn lawless homelands now and they will pledge their alligeince to West in a heartbeat if given a chance - but unfortunately, their pledges have no meaning now. They are suspects now. A westerner would rather hold a Muslim suspect than taking his chances to get blown up somewhere in his own country. And here comes the profiling. People, like Shahid can scream their throats dry and people like you can release pigeons of peace at every occasssion you get but it will not change anything. I do not see any hope in near future. Mind you that I am by nature a very optimistic person, but sometimes there are writings on the wall.

Please explain to me how this war will end. When Osama will be caught? or when global resitance or global terror - depending on where are you standing - will be controlled? Many Western leaders have declared openly and publicaly several times that they have started this war so that this war is fought in enemy lands and not their own. If you look at the situation logically, their approach is to crush the global resistance using the local authorities and government. Logically, they are doing excatly the same thing which created the resistance in the first place. So their approach is that if they could inflict more pain on their enemy than the vice versa can, they will eventually win. Will this approach work? We have yet to see and but until then profiling is here to stay.

I am sorry to hear of your unfortunate episode with Air Canada.

The problem is not Air Canada, it`s rather the Canadian government and it`s interference in the Canadian airline industry.

Air Canada, as a private company, is not legally obliged to carry everyone who wants to fly with them. I don`t think that there is any law, legal standard or precedent where one private party can be forced into a contract with another private party against, it`s will. If Air Canada decides that it doesn`t want to fly you, because the check-in agent does not like the look on your face, they are perfectly entitled to decline your patronage.

The issue is that there is not nearly enough competition in Canada, such that you can reward good service, and likewise, punish bad service.

If there was enough competition, you would be able to make Air Canada suffer by flying with their competitors. If Ottawa hadn`t been interfering with Canadian airlines for decades, you would have had plenty of alternative choices, as we do in the US.

Air Canada is not at fault. Ottawa is. If it was not for the government`s interference, consumers like yourself would be able to vote with their feet and Air Canada would have been forced to treat their customers far better than they do now.

#37 by tahmed32
//...actually muslims are doing quite well the world over ...//

Hmmm... interesting.... Are you sure about this? Because - We see a lot of complaints and horror stories(like this one) from muslims regarding ``profiling``. Paki/muslim media is filled with outrage. A lot of muslims have a feeling that there is a palpable suspicion/hostility towards muslims world over.

And yet - you seem to be convinced that is not the case - it`s just useless whining. Well - I don`t know man - I find it hard to believe you.

+++

Anyway - that still doesn`t explain the racist slurs you threw at the ``elephant god`` and ``sardar at high noon``!!! What was that about?

mohar #39 on the slurs - after 4 years of observing the one indian after another come on chowk tossing unprovoked insults to my country or my people or my religion i dont mind speaking their language i feel like it (read the rubbish written by nikki below about muslims and sikhs which does not seem to both you).

as for what you think the world thinks about muslims: the facts are there for all to see. regardless of the whiners like shahid mahmood and the spiteful little pakistan haters from india. Facts speak louder than words - they dont have politicians (or anyone else) leading the charge to tear down mosques in the west the way the did in India (where Advani led the charge to destroy Babri masjid, and was rewarded by being made the number two man in India). in fact the only person caught so far in the US under the much maligned Patriot Act was a in fact jewish extremist who was threatening to attack mosques in the US (but dont expect either the whining shahids or the spiteful nikkis and jays to understand this). nor do they enter muslim homes in the west and burn down families as they have done openly in india, with a mock trial where witnesses were intimidated by the state government. nor do westerners show up on pakistani websites (like indians) in order to toss insults.

These are clear and simple facts that anyone with an ounce of common sense would recognize. But dont expect the whining shahids and the spiteful jays to understand these either. it gives me no pleasure to say all this, but truth is more important than what i would like to write. i would never have written this when i first came to chowk. but 4 years spent here have been quite educational in understanding the mindset and unwillingness to face reality that seems to be widespread among the ``educated`` babus of india and pakistan.

Dear Chowkies:

I have visited Chowk after a long time (reason: I have migrated to Australia, but am visiting another country poles apart for summers) and would like to post the following message:

1. Read Tahmed32`s various posts and enjoyed them very much, as usual. This was my style when I had joined Chowk, but as he himself admitted, he has learnt about Indians on Chowk after 4 years :-)

2. Romair at # 16: people in Mississauga had told me about two parties thrown by Mr. Wajid and Ms. Parish to thank the Pakistani community. In the party thrown by the latter, liquor was not served since she was advised about the culture. However, in the party of the former, liquor was served and enjoyed with relish. This is just fyi.

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Urstruly#38
That was straight from the heart but you would forgive me if I do not fully agree with you. What you represent is an islamist viewpoint and it is difficult for even other muslims, let alone non-muslims, to agree with it.
In my opinion, the fight so far is not between muslims and the West but between Islamists and neocons in the US. Both are trying to manipulate public opinions to make it a fight between civilisations. The islamists view this as an opportunity to galvanise the ummah into a veritable nation; the neocons into a crusade. In my opinion, the islamists seem to have been more successful in their objective than the neocons. Most of the christian world, even the majority in the US now, does not support Bush`s ``war on terror``, but an increasing number of muslims seem to be sympathetic to the islamist cause, aided no doubt by the draconian measures of the Bush-Blair-bailon-ka-joda.
As of now, I think of Shahid`s problem as my problem, as do most Canadians who are fair-minded people. They want to strike a reasonable balance between the need for security and respecting the rights of individuals. The system seems to work in most cases but it is by no means perfect.

RE: tahmed32
Such hostility. Let`s cut all the crap about what the world thinks about ``whiners, spiteful people, Muslims, Indians, Pakis, Americans, Canadians`` or blue eyed toads for all I care. Tell me my seemingly, ``worldly and most intellectual friend`` how would you go about handling this particular situation. To recap, here are the facts:

1. You have been flagged and refused from boarding a flight.
2. You are refused to board a flight the next day.
3. You are told that from this point on you are to carry a PASSPORT on all domestic flights.
4. You are told that you are on potentially a watch list.
5. You are told under no circumstances are you to visit the United States by your lawyer.
6. You are lied to by Air Canada as to what transpired between you and the desk agents when you write in a complaint.
7. A politician tells you that Air Canada is lying to you and that a call was placed to the RCMP when you tried to board.

I can go on (but that would be whining, right?) - but my challenge to you is to write for me and for the rest of CHOWK on this board (or if you have the writing skills an article on CHOWK) what you would do in this instance. Please don`t resort to the usual namecalling rhetoric - it is quite tiring. I look forward to an intelligent response and hopefully you will surprise me with some useful advice for my particular situation.

Thank-you.

ahmadzai #44: ``In the party thrown by the latter, liquor was not served since she was advised about the culture. However, in the party of the former, liquor was served and enjoyed with relish. This is just fyi.``

I was at Wajid`s party. And yes, a lot of liquor. And a few drunk Pakistanis also.........

ahmedzai #44 Good to hear from you. Congratulations on your move to Australia, and wish you all success in your new land. Glad you enjoyed reading my posts - i certainly had fun writing them.