An Air Canada Flagging

[#8 by tahmed32 on August 16, 2004 9:57pm PT
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In India they burn you alive in your homes for belonging to a minority religion. ]

And in Pakistan you could receive rain of bombs from your own army? Or killed if you belong to wrong subsect? And if you happen to be a scientist your work not appreciated?

This does not mean that I do not condemn the burnings. Let us just hope that system tracks down the criminals.

IF 9/11 had not happened, I would have done one of two things: on being told I could not go on the connecting flight, I would have asked for a free ticket (as airlines would normally do for passengers with reservations who get bumped) and taken some other airline. If for some reason the airline refused the free ticket I would have written to the airline president demanding compensation and threateing to take them to a small claims court where I would demand not just the free ticket but also additional amount for the hassle (and if the airline, for some strange reason, still refused to pay up, I would have proceeded to take them to court).

That was before 9/11.

Things are a little different after 9/11. Airline security is a major, legitimate concern today. Far better to inconveninece passengers than to get them killed. Nowhere in your article do you demonstrate any understanding for this. If the airline considers you to be a security risk, they have a right and a duty to stop you from boarding the plane. No reasonable judge would consider your complaint valid after 9/11. And as such, if I was in your place I would have simply taken another flight and considered this personal incovenience to be part of the environment we live in today. (I used to travel a lot in the 1980`s and 1990`s, around the globe, and rest assured I could tell you of far worse situations, particularly in developing countries).

Thus, in answer to your question, I would have realized that we were not living in normal times after 9/11 and would have simply taken another flight. Canada, like other democracies, is going through a very difficult time where it tries to match public security with individual liberty.

And yes, I wrote in a hostile manner for a good reason. Your entire article is concerned with your rights as a canadian national, and there is not an iota of concern for the legitimate airline security concerns after 9/11. I consider it appalling and highly irresponsible on your part that you can write an entire article without demonstrating any concern for these serious underlying reasons. If all canadians (or US for that matter) demonstrated this irresponsible attitude, canada (or US or any other western countries) would be reduced to conditions in Pakistan or any other third world country where public safety and terrorist bombings etc. gets back seat to political ambitions.

Now, please surprise ME by either finding some reasonable basis for rejecting my conclusion in the last para. above, or else surprise me by agreeing with what I have written and being man enough to accept that your article reflects an irresponsible mindset that you need to grow out of.

Canadians are arrogant. They brag about how in contrast to USA they are more diversity friendly. Their ``Permanent Residence`` process makes it sound as if they are just like USA a land of opportunity. But facts are opposite. There is more racism in Canada as compared to USA. And for every IT job in Canada there are more than 10 IT jobs in USA. On west coast in Canada I could not find a single IBM Mainframe job. I was there in Victoria for 7 months.

Shahid Mahmood.
This is very scary. What is even worse is the fact that they still have not told you why they singled you out. Did you talk to any lawyers about this?

I can`t believe that people are accusing you of whining etc.

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[#40 by mchowdry on August 17, 2004 12:29pm PT
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If Air Canada decides that it doesn`t want to fly you, because the check-in agent does not like the look on your face, they are perfectly entitled to decline your patronage. ]

But what happens if Canada has given you the citizenship? What do they expect except may be some hot headed muslim will plot in future to requisition 19 into 72 houris? And take out two towers?

Either Shahid is citizen or he is not. At least he is entitled to transperency of this flagging process. Is it the name? Then may be he should carry his portfolio of cartoons and an additional ID signed by his employers. I mean there should end to his troubles if it is merely name. Or if some real info in some secret dossier in CIA files? Then he should be able to challenge it.

RE: #48, Tahmed32
Sorry...don`t see any intelligence in your reply. It seems you don`t really understand
the point of the article nor are you addressing the points I brought up in Post #46.
I really have nothing more to say to you.
Thank-you.
Shahid

shahid: That is the most obvious cop-out I have seen on chowk.

The fact is that you dont have anything more to say because you are unwilling to accept the plain and simple fact I pointed out: namely that airline travel is harder now due to legitimate security concerns. And incidents like yours are neither uncommon. You would much rather wallow in self-pity because they bumped you off the plane.

It`s a little upsetting to see people getting hostile with the author for what seems to be an absolutely legitimate concern. Nobody has a right to offload passengers just because they think (s)he might be aterrorist. At the most they can glare at them with suspicion, ask em to strip down to their socks, poke probes into their bum if needed, or do a full body x-ray. Admittedly, the victim of such treatment may be more than a little miffed, but surely one can eventually rationalise it in the name of the ``airline`s legitimate security concerns``.

But this? Being offloaded while your wife is allowed to board- what sense does that make? Not being allowed to board a flight at all? Being forced to rent a car and add hours to one`s travel time, not to mention the emotional duress it causes? People today live on tight schedules as it is, with wafer thin margins for error. What if he was travelling on business and lost an important deal because of this? Or there was a family emergency and he was unable to make it on time?

All this is bad enough as it is, but in a truly developed, liberal country like Canada, it is ultra shocking. Without sounding petty about it, I`m fairly sure this sort of thing would never happen in India. This is a classic case of the system taking over and replacing good old fashioned common sense, something which is fast becoming a subcontinental preserve (and we`re the better for it!)

Shahid has every right to be offended and even whine about it. The madness has gone on long enough. Let common sense prevail!

I would like to re-iterate that I do not understand the fuss that Shahid makes about being denied boarding. This has nothing to do with his record as a journalist/cartoonist, his views and his ideals. This is pure and simple fact, howsoever politically incorrect or unappetising it may be.

Let me try to explain this better:-

a) Is it because he as a human being was denied boarding without being assigned a valid enough reason?
Well, nothing new, this happens all the time all over the world, especially within our part of the world, as anybody who has seen ``labour class`` being pushed around at a vast variety of airports between Dammam and Dhaka and points therein will re-confirm.

b) Is it because he as an English speaking upper middle-class person with access to the media was denied boarding without being assigned a valid reason?
Well, post 9/11, nothing new here either. And frankly, if it happens to some of us once in a way, well, in the larger interest, grin and bear it. Focus on getting your work done.

c) Is it because he as an English speaking upper middle-class person of a particular colour and religion was denied boarding without being assigned a valid reason?
Well, my Lahore-Delhi and Dammam-Kuwait (or Riyadh-Jeddah) example still holds good. So what if political borders were re-drawn, the example still holds true. This happens all the time, too. To Shahid as well as to Shyam and also to Sherman, surely to Shlomo.

d) Is it because he as a Canadian citizen was denied boarding without being assigned a valid reason?
Well, maybe he needs to go back and read some more about the Komagata Maru, for example. These sort of things have always happened in Canada, much as our Canadian friends would have us believe otherwise.

e) Is it because he as all of the above was denied boarding on racist grounds?
Well, what else is new? Probably the only immigreants who had it easy were the Brits when they walked all over the Native, what else, Indians. Now move on to to the brit denied Germans, who fingered the Italians, and so on and so forth. Canada holds the distinction for denying free passage and entry, and returning to origin, to a boatload of Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany in 1938. Please read up on the history and tradition of migration into Canada.

Yes, Ally, does a leopard change his spots that easily?

Great countries in North America, no doubt, but reality checks kicking into place. Beware of doors that may close without warning.

veeresh#58:
``d) Is it because he as a Canadian citizen was denied boarding without being assigned a valid reason?
Well, maybe he needs to go back and read some more about the Komagata Maru, for example. These sort of things have always happened in Canada, much as our Canadian friends would have us believe otherwiseeeresh:``

We are no longer in 1906. I think that you need to update your history book:). The grandchildren of Kamagata Maru are now lawmakers and prominent ministers in Canada. And this has happened because of people like Shahid Mahmood who fought for their rights and not merely grumbled and bore it.

Shahid has every right to fight for his rights. If I read him correctly, he is not questioning Air Canada`s right to screen him or even to flag him. But he wants to know why he has been flagged and why he is being discriminated against. In doing this he is fighting for others also who may be treated in the same manner but never complain. We have an Access to Information act in Canada which gives one the right to know what`s contained on him in govt. files.
I do hope that Shahid has the fortitude to take this complaint to the highest level until his grievance is redressed.


mchowdhry#40:
``If Air Canada decides that it doesn`t want to fly you, because the check-in agent does not like the look on your face, they are perfectly entitled to decline your patronage. ``

This is news to me. I had assumed that as a federally chartered corporation and the one heavily subsidised by the Canadian taxpayer, Air Canada would be subject to the Canadian Human Rights Charter which prohibits discrimination on various specific grounds.

Tahmen # 48 and other posts before that,

In berating this author and other interactors, whose negative attitude is irritating at the least, You have got it right again. Thanks for trying to put some sense into these dumbos...

Too bad you and hamidm don`t see eye to eye ;-)

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Ref Mullah32 #8

[Then thank your lucky stars that you live in Canada. In Canada they bump you off aeroplanes for security reasons. In India they burn you alive in your homes for belonging to a minority religion.]

In India persons of a MINORITY religion also burn you in trains if you belong to the MAJORITY religion. In return, the people of the majority religion burn the folks of the minority religion.

Just setting the record straight. We wouldn`t want recent history forgotten, would we?

PS. Would your post be representative of the quality of the textbooks your father used to publish?

Dost Mitter

I am also surprised to see your response; and that after seeing the 9/11 commission report? The commission`s report makes it official that America is at war with a malignant ideology called Islam and what is at helm of this ideology is wahabism. Now ironically, the only wahabi state in the whole Muslim world is the staunchest ally of Americans. For an ordinary American now it is wahabi of the sunni triangle, and wahabi of shia south, and wahabi in europe that is trying to kill him. It is confusing enough for adherents of Islam, what to talk about an American whose usual response would be ` ah its too confusing for me, lets have six pack and fukk`. Of course it is evangilist neo-con agenda where mindless capitalist vultures are also seeing an opportunity to make money. You should see Fahrenheit 9/11 where when Us gov. is making a case to the gathering of fortune 500 company delegATES, and the guy is making a case that they should support this war not because their country is under threat but there is a hell lot of money to be made - the kind of money that is beyond their wildest imagination. It is all on record - no Islamist propaganda there. So what if some American has a pang of conscience and he starts asking his government why it is waging a war on 1/5th of humanity, or are we really stealing the wealth of these people, or are you really trying to convert middle east into a hellhole in the hope that Jesus will only come then? Then the the US government has a ready made answer - ``no we are doing this because these people have a bad religion``. After 9/11 commission report it is official now. I am surprised.

Urstruly#62:
I am more in agreement with this post than your earlier one.
Although the US think tanks have the best experts that money can buy, the American public is by and large quite ignorant. I remember the time when the Iranian revolution took place. At that time, Shias were made out to be the fanatic muslim fundamentalist sect while Saudis were the proponent of a more moderate wahabi sect. And if Saudis are to be blamed for the rise of fundamentalism in the muslim world, and I think that they can rightly be held responsible for financing madrassahs and mosques more to their liking, then the process did not start with 9/11 and had been going all along when the americans considered them their most trustworthy ally. The truth is that Americans did not care about islamic fundamentalism until it affected them and even encouraged it against Pan Arabism of Nasser as long as the godless commies were the common enemy. And if the islamists ignore the US and its partner, israel, in the middle east, america will ignore them too.
The security of energy is important to the US. But as I said in my earlier post, this is a non-issue as oil will keep flowing as long as its owners need the cash for it. The problem, however, is the interest of the US corporations. And here Moore is right on the money.

dost mittar #59 you seem very concerned about shahid`s rights. What about his responsibilities to the canadian community he lives in as I pointed out? His irresponsible attitude is clear to me from the way in which he first challenged me to point out where he is wrong - and then brazenly ignored the response I provided and simply ducked out.