Films, Television and Women

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Sridhar,
Take my comments with the proverbial pinch of salt. Your posts #21 & #22, could`nt have put it better myself.

re:#12 by soundmeister
Good post.
Most men in India grow up without having girlfriend(s). Their mind therefore works overtime and they invent a lot of devious ways. Eveteasing is one such. Why this does not exist in the west? Because there is no need.
One good American way of life to emulate would be dating. It is natural for men and women to be attracted to each other. Teenage boys and girls do not get this chance in India. Society does not approve them to cohabit or be together openly. I hear that dating is slowly catching up in big cities. That is a good thing. Dating will also go a long way in solving the age old problem of caste. I will go as far as suggesting that the govt should encourage dating and set up dating centers for men and women to come together.
However, all this can be done without aping the western lifestyle. Just my thoughts.
Sridhar

re:#14 by halur
Aping the West is not the same as westernization.
Indians seem to be enamoured of the West, especially the USA. Why do the Indians not copy West`s work ethics, its obsessively clean roads, not copy the fact that almost everyone here pays his/her taxes (not even 10% of Indians pay their taxes), not copy their sense of civic duties (following traffick rules etc) so on and so forth?
Why does India have to exchange its rich culture with a consumer-based western culture?
As i have said already, slow decay of family values will bring in all the social problems that the West has already encountered. Bollywood, with one feet in the West, is a vehicle that is speeding up this process.
BTW, freedom means a lot of things. If watching boobs is freedom for u (and this other character kkkhand), you guys are to be pitied.
Sridhar

HetHeret-
I agree.But when you condone this article,you are reinforcing the ``sex determines your fate`` sentiment.It does,no doubt,and getting out of this crap has to be by both men and women.You must realize that there are no free bies and why should men handle equality to you on a platter?More effort in this has to come from women.You are offended by sight of semi clad women because our society has conditioned us to think of women as bastions of chastity and purity.
In case of eve-teasers,I know practically it is a problem for women,but in principle is it the eve teasers problem or women`s problem?It is true that practical considerations do condition our behaviour,but why should they condition our thought processes as well?
I am inclined to believe that it is the eve teasers and lechers who preach the ``women should be protected`` doctrine because they know people of their ilk are waiting when their mothers and sisters go out.
When somoebody says that a scantily clad girl is a role model,I dont know if they are projecting it wrongly or you are getting it wrongly.When Mallika Sherawat says she enjoys kissing in movie scenes,and she is said to be a role model,it does not mean that every girl is expected to emulate her and start kissing everyone.She is role model in a sense that she has the guts to do what she enjoys and openly admits without worrying about norms and repurcussions.
You say-
``At the moment, our sex determines our social fate to a large extent, and I don`t know if we`ll ever get past that--I don`t see it happening any time soon, unfortunately. ``
I dont see it happening either if we dont attack the roots of this hypocrisy and continue whining about the problems women face.

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I apologize.

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Do we really want censor morality, like the pakis, and regress? Indians are more or less uptight about sex anyway (the pakis are neanderthals). With liberalization and globalization, market forces tell us that the indian consumer (men and women) want a little more of sex in the air, in movies, tv , advertising, everywhere. Thank Goodness, we are aping the west! Who else would we ape, the pakis who cover their women in burlap sacks ?

More westernization the better, in India atleast. Kudos to all those women who dress skimpily in india, they have courage.

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I agree with the idea of this article--as a woman, I`ve almost stopped watching any television because you can`t change channels without coming across scenes of half-naked women being dragged across the screen by their hair, women of all ages gyrating in bikinis while being called `role models`, and women in the ever-popular on-her-back-with-her-knees-in-the-air pose, now adapted to show them screaming in the throes of birth too. But that isn`t all that`s put me off--you also get treated to people being shot, stabbed, burnt, electrocuted, maimed, mutilated, hanged, and tortured, and I think that although I find the portrayal of women offensive, I find the latter more disturbing.

Male and female nudity mean different things because the status of men and women, particularly in our societies, is different. In Lahore, it`s not uncommon to see boys and men taking a dip in the canal in nothing but briefs while burka-clad women scurry by lest the boys decide to have a little fun with them. Women are `supposed` to be good little bastions of purity, while men can roam around nearly nude and be as crude and loud as they like. I`m sure the majority of the men are there just for the chance to cool off in the water, but the lot that chooses to harass passerbys are also present and far more visible than the former.

Female behavior is `marked` while male behavior is not. It really doesn`t matter how a man chooses to dress, for instance, but if a woman chooses to dress up, she`s noticed, if she chooses not to dress up/wear makeup that fact is noted, if she wears traditional clothes it is noticed, if she decides to go for `western` gear, it is noticed. A woman on public transport is fair game for harassment because she should be at home, a women in her own car is the target of stupid comments on female drivers when male drivers make the same mistakes and misjudgments without eliciting comment, a woman walking through a market is the target of pinches, slaps, comment, and spit....and the list goes on. Every single step a woman takes is judged, weighed, examined, commented on, and is supposed to be indicative of her character, her morality, her values, her upbringing, her race, her religion, her nationality...good grief, people! Is it any wonder that when `society` decides to re-evaluate itself, women are the battleground?

Ideally, nudity shouldn`t matter, but I don`t think it`ll stop being an issue until we accept both men and women as people first and male and female second. At the moment, our sex determines our social fate to a large extent, and I don`t know if we`ll ever get past that--I don`t see it happening any time soon, unfortunately.

Here are some simple rules for men to live by:
1. Never hit a woman
2. Never abuse a woman. Especially avoid gender specific invective like b*tch or wh*re
3. Never patronise a woman. Terms like ``the wife``, ``the little woman``, ``just a housewife``, ``bimbo`` etc. if used need to be injected with just the right bit of irony to make them funny
4. If you watch porn or go to strip clubs, enjoy yourself. Agonising over the exploitation of womankind that has to pander to our degenerate male tastes...blah blah... is a waste of time and frankly, everyone knows you enjoy it so do us all a favour and shut up ok?
5. Holding a door open or offering your seat to a woman on a bus is not patronising, it`s just good breeding. If the woman turns your offer down, be graceful. Thoughts like ``I offered the b*tch a seat and she made me look like a fool`` are of your own creation. She probably thinks better of you anyway, just wants to show that she doesn`t need special treatment. Appreciate that sentiment.
6. Find a girl, settle down....whoops wrong post

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soundmeister- excellent post. I voiced similiar views in another forum in a different context- of rape and death penalty.Rape is made more heinous than it already is by the condescending pity of patronising males.I will try to post the whole discussion here
But perhaps the author is not the exact opposite,just confused.
I have never been able to understand the hoopla over objectification/commodifying, and why is it painted as a gender issue? Why are women always blackmailed into this drama of chastity? Why do women fall for it? When Salman Khan takes off his shirt in every movie ,thats ok.But when a woman wears a bikini for a beauty contest,that is objectification commodifying and what not.Why not let the woman look and feel sexy and use their sexuality? Why not sit back and let her take her own decisions without whining?
This whole patronising sham is designed to hoodwink the woman to be forever a saas bahu type.And does not every feeling requires an object? If she can be the object of my love,respect,affection,why not lust?
And now about obscenity vulgarity porn. First and foremost,again why paint this as a gender issue? Men and women are both in it together.Is there any unisex porn?Then why whine just about women? Are all the moral standards just for women?
You dont like Balaji telefilms,you change the channel.You dont like vulgarity obscenity sex,change the channel.Something of what you want to avoid wil be pushed down your throat,and you can complain about that,but that does not put you on any higher moral ground.