A Case for Moderation

urstruly,wajahat- This guy is right on at least one count.Lets stick to Pakistan.
Gibran-You commented on echoboom because he attacked you personally,but why did you refrain from commenting on opressed,who made a very good point? In your own personal opinion he may be a visionary,but what personal vision is Musharraf personally showing by allowing these human rights violations?
http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00003928&channel=civic%20center
I dont know what your logic is that if someone shows dissent,without thinking of a solution,that is a weakness in character.Solutions dont come from the mind of one person.How about this for a solution-democracy? Let the person who runs the country not think too hard for a solution to impress you with strengh in character. Let all the people have some say in how to run the country.
ALthough you do make quite a few good points,but their importance is lost when you think that supporting Musharraf is supporting Pakistan.It is not.

vertex-when you do recognize that stuka was miffed and he overreacted-dont you think you are overreacting too? urstruly thinks that India is a Hindu country(which it is not) so if stuka thought that Pakistan is a Muslim country and thereby said wht he said,do you really think he was speaking against Indian muslims?Anyway,why do you think you need reassurance from stuka to believe that India is your country?

A goragoochaater just cannot read this, but doesn`t feel any embarrasment in discussing the subjects he learnt in the totaa-mainaa producing schools..the english-medium type, the bible-flag mafia-missionary schools.

Please read and propagate this:

Those who are at the top: are the Top terrorists--the moderates

If you are from a rishvatkhore household or the type who fattens himself/herself on taxpayers money, the one who prides on alien accents , then you can never ever understand such issues.

Because:You and your kind ARE the problem.Pakistanis are busy acquiring knowledge from the right source to eliminate such problems.

P.S:-Please always use and overuse the word `` moderate`` as a gaali, with a sneer and hint of derision. Soon its true meanings will emerge.

Gibran,
I must congratulate you on a very well thought and well articulated articles. Im impressed by your way of thinking and remain hopeful that there are more muslims with the open minds. May god help us in getting out of these degenerate mindsets. god bless you and keep up the good work.

sajjad

stuka,

[Also, you can use all the nukes you have and yet you cannot destroy all of India. But we can wipe out Islam from South Asia. We never did mind the Arabs being Muslims. Ttheir religion, they are welcome to it.]

A paki gets on your neves, yet you take solice in the idea that you may perchance be able to ``wipe out`` Islam from South Asia?!

Geez, Jinnah wasn`t such an idiot after all....we Indian Muslims thank you for your support...
good luck in planning our genocide.

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33
//...what solutions you are proposing to solving the issue for those people out ...//

Let me venture into the treacherous area of finding a ``solution`` for palis:

First, stop fooling around with intefada/holy war and what have you. Violence against much larger force will get you nothing - so scale it down. Try to gain some moral high ground - do some non-violent stuff that Gandhi did. Then and only then you can play the american media game and build a constituency there among mainstream americans and politicians. It will work - a favorable american public opinion is the only hope for palis.

Don`t wabble in jewish-dominated media conspiracy theory - there are also many liberal jews who would like to give you fair deal. But unless you stop the intefada BS, they can`t help you.

Anycase - after 9/11, all your suicide-stunts would just back-fire, but if you go the non-violent way, that will have a double impact - it would also improve muslim image. I am not saying this would be easy - but I think post-911, that`s the only way.

And then keep all your demands on table but be prepared to settle for less. Get back to camp david - first build a state, have a govt`, an army, police, economy, investment, education - get some sanity back into your lives. Rest can wait. Decades of violence has given you nothing, only driven you nuts. You can continue like this forever - yet the enemy will never be softened. Only it will drive the entire population beyond salvage.

Time to think out of the box. For the sake of future generation. The onus is on the palis. The israelis are strong and will remain so for forseeable future.

stuka

you are over-reacting. I do not consider India to be a military threat to pakistan. What india could not do with 1 million army will sure not be able to do with 2 million army now. Kargil was the last ditch effort to resolve the kashmir issue through regular army thus opening the doors for militancy further ajar. After kargil a nuclear detente has been established and it has been proven to be effective post 9/11. Thus a common sense policy for Pakistan would be to reduce its military strength from half a mil to just hundered thousand. We should model our army on the design of Israeli army which works under nuclear umbrella in a sea of hostile nations. If India wants to build its armies to fight its future wars with China or dominate southern hemisphere then so be it. Instead of numbers Pakistan should invest on military technology and this cannot be done until these jokers of generals are ruling Paksitan. Like Zia they should have gone for F-16s, stealth technology and missile technology when Us needs us but instead they are buying useless military equipment from america like condemned friggates and cannons that have proven in-effective both in Afghanistan and Iraq, what will we do with the gunship helicopters that can be brought down by mere Klashnikovs; what good are bradleys and humvies which have proven in-effective and death traps in Iraq. American tanks have also proven useless. But it doesn`t bother these jokers because they get their kickbacks either way. I know in the end these clowns will come begging to people like Dr. Qadeer whom they have insulted in such an outrageous manner to please their masters. But whether we get this stuff from americans or not, Indian threat has been neutralized.

To echoboom,

from GIBRAN BHAM

this man calls me an illiterate, im actually pleased, its good to get some strong reactions. Unfortunately, this genious feels it necessary to send his curses and compare me to Mr. Tariq Ali, for reasons Im not quite sure off. Typical isnt it? Theres always a few, they dont like what you say, so they attack your character like cowards. If you`ve got a point, raise the issues in the article.
I read your comment three times, Im still not sure what youre trying to say. Can anyone help this genius out? Hit me back with something good next time boom-boom.

Urstuly

You are absolutely right, the Americans and their bed fellow, in a sodomistic sense, the Israelis, have always secretly defined the deathtraps before these ever sprouting peace plan. One of the preconditions of any peace plans is the stopping of the creation of settlements. Reports released this morning reenforced American Complicity and hipocracy where by BUSH is green lighting new settlement drives in the Palestinian area. And oh lest we forget that incredible Wall they are drving through the palestinian land which is creating havoc for millions of Palestinians to secure a few hundred israelis. I mean people like mohar and these Right wing CNN lovers dont know shiit but they somehow consider themselves political sages after one evening with Bill O Reilly.

comments on the israel / Palestinian issue

My friends, I can see that the Palestine issue has brought out the most comments, most of them very critical of my analysis of the solution.
Believe me, I can write 100 pages (as many Muslims can) - on the injustices done to Palestinians. I am personally sick of repeated heart brakes on the breakdown of peace, which many a time happens because of Isaeli instigations. I can only try to understand the plight of the people.
However, those whoe feel strongly about it - I ask you now, what solutions you are proposing to solving the issue for those people out there who you cry, shout and get angry for - your brothers as you like to say? Dont waste all our time by just criticizing something to try to impress on the `audience` as such, yes...for those of you out there in doubt, be sure that there are those who like too talk much, too impress the world. YEAH LOOK AT ME, I KNOW STUFF!!
knowing stuff aint jack...if you know what i mean. knowing something and using it is what counts. so get off the talking, and get down to the thinking. then hit me back - and i am not being sarcastic when i say, i hope i learn something from you guys.

comments on the israel / Palestinian issue

from Gibran Bham
My friends, I can see that the Palestine issue has brought out the most comments, most of them very critical of my analysis of the solution.
Believe me, I can write 100 pages (as many Muslims can) - on the injustices done to Palestinians. I am personally sick of repeated heart brakes on the breakdown of peace, which many a time happens because of Isaeli instigations. I can only try to understand the plight of the people.
However, those whoe feel strongly about it - I ask you now, what solutions you are proposing to solving the issue for those people out there who you cry, shout and get angry for - your brothers as you like to say? Dont waste all our time by just criticizing something to try to impress on the `audience` as such, yes...for those of you out there in doubt, be sure that there are those who like too talk much, too impress the world. YEAH LOOK AT ME, I KNOW STUFF!!
knowing stuff aint jack...if you know what i mean. knowing something and using it is what counts. so get off the talking, and get down to the thinking. then hit me back - and i am not being sarcastic when i say, i hope i learn something from you guys.

#20 by wajahat

I am sure this issue has been hashed/rehashed a million times:) But hey - doesn`t hurt to have another round.

I am not really CNN/FOX type guy. I read various other sources and have had discussions and exposure to counter-points. But I always came back with a conviction that Arafat should have taken that deal. That was not giving him everything of course - but it was a good start. At the least - it would made lives of average palis livable.

So what`s your argument?

#22 by Urstruly

Well - good luck for the liberation. We hinuds will really like to see you pakis proud and free ... free from outdated ideologies and choke-hold of the criminal enterprise(paki army) that has ruled you guys for 57 years. Free and proud pakis would be a people in their own rights ... a people of positive nationalism, constructive ideas, a distinct positive culture.

Then pakis wouldn`t have to resort to anti-indianism to build up their confidence. They will be truly free to seek their own destiny.

That`s when true peace will prevail.

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#24 by Urstruly

I thought Zia met Rajiv Gandhi in 1987 ( Indira was dead by then).

Anyway - I agree, Zia was a smart guy ... his bluff really saved paki a$$ at that time. Otherwise, I am sure Indian Army would have had another go over your sorry a$$es, a la 1971.

It also opened the eyes of the navel-gazing buffoons that make up indian establishment ... they were sitting on their hunches like fools. They thought after `71 thrashing, pakis will never ever dare to bother India again. But they were wrong - paki army is like a snake - you either kill it or you defang it and put it in a box ... you just don`t thrash it and let it go. It will always come back to bother you.

That`s exactly what happened. But then it was late.

So the buffoons finally did what they should have done 20 years ago. Nukes were built ... the rest is history. We thank Zia for that.

But as far as ``wiping out hindu race`` is concerned - well, don`t even dream about it. You will be gone, before you can say ``bismillah``.