A Case for Moderation

Will the acceptance of a rule by a despotic dictator who came in power by overthrowing a democratically elected leader, by violating the constitution at gun point be considered ``moderation`` or is it ``enlightenment``? or Is it ``moderate enlightenment``? What has become of this world when even the countries like Samoa, Tuvalu and Vanuatu are rejecting this enlightenment and opting to plunge into the deep abyss of ignorance and democracy.

The best article I have read on Chowk. I feel very optimistic that there are people in Muslim world who can really ``reason`` things in the world. Can`t wait to see all the routine crap that will be thrown at this article too as usual.....
I must mention that the only other thing enjoyable on the chowk is Hamidm`s interactions. I hope he interacts more often...

This article is another example of trap-in-the-box Muslims. No matter what the problem, they think collectively as Muslims first and then deciding the seldom-right-often-wrong step to take. Here author is suggesting a right step to not hate US because it is not good for them and it is also irrational. The message should have been just the opposite. Dislike, disagree and criticize US government on rational basis, if necessary, as many people around the world do, but keep the religion out of it. Religion is a personal matter; it should not influence in societal, communal, provincial, national, political, economical, cultural, traditional etc etc matters.

However, author does not hide his attachment to religion which is influencing his mindset on matters beyond the territory of religion. He is not leaving his religion at home when stepping out the door.

He also loses a significant number of readers in the introduction (which should be very carefully crafted to keep the interest of the readres by almost treating readers as customers) by clearly alligning with Musharraf and totally ignoring all the wrongs he has done. Author probably did not visit Pakistan before 9/11/ 2001 when Pakistan was in worst shape in every way than before Musharraf overthrew civilian government. Musharraf is no way the savior of anything in Pakistan. The money pouring in from USA during Zia rule had similar effects for few years but we know now that he left behind a mess. Same is true of Msuharraf. Once, the artificial and temporary financial stability resulting from kindness of USA disappears, so will upward blip. There is nothing more to Musharraf than US help improving the financial balance sheet. Both NS and BB would have supported USA on war on terror too, if you know the transcripts of Colin Powell phone call to Musharraf and president Bush stating, ``either you are with us or with them``.

Let`s try to keep seperate things sepearte.

- Musharraf`s act of seizing power
- Good or bad points of his governance
- Ligitimacy of his rule over the time
- Evolution he is bringing about with `democracy`.

While much is said about all these things everywhere, our people usually fail to keep them seperate. As a matter of fact, these things are seperage from a standpoint of national interests. One may be wrong but at the same time the other may be useful. Makes sense?

While most of the things go against his case, I believe one of the components of his rule is in a positive direction and that is the moderation part. But this also is a very tricky thing, trying to row upstream and risking a backlash.

The article is distinguished in it`s purpose, i.e. to give rise to a productive stlye of thinking and getting rid of the attitude of complains and conspiracy identification as a national hobby.

I think the root causes of problems mentioned here are mostly education and a devotion to religion which is essentially blind. Interestingly, these problems reinforce each other.

Startled UK Marines Hassled By Gay Afghans

By Chris Stephen In Bagram

TheScotsman.net (5-24-02) 6-4-2

British marines returning from an operation deep in the Afghan mountains spoke last night of an alarming new threat - being propositioned by swarms of gay local farmers.

An Arbroath marine, James Fletcher, said: ``They were more terrifying than the al-Qaeda. One bloke who had painted toenails was offering to paint ours. They go about hand in hand, mincing around the village.``

While the marines failed to find any al-Qaeda during the seven-day Operation Condor, they were propositioned by dozens of men in villages the troops were ordered to search.

``We were pretty shocked,`` Marine Fletcher said. ``We discovered from the Afghan soldiers we had with us that a lot of men in this country have the same philosophy as ancient Greeks: a woman for babies, a man for pleasure,.``

Originally, the marines had sent patrols into several villages in the mountains near the town of Khost, hoping to catch up with al-Qaeda suspects who last week fought a four-hour gun battle with soldiers of the Australian SAS. The hardened troops, their faces covered in camouflage cream and weight down with weapons, radios and ammunition, were confronted with Afghans wanting to stroke their hair.

``It was hell,`` said Corporal Paul Richard, 20. ``Every village we went into we got a group of men wearing make-up coming up, stroking our hair and cheeks and making kissing noises.``

---

SODOMY RETURNS TO AFGHANISTAN

The Taleban gone, the tradition of sodomy returns to Kandahar. Bearded men, accompanied by their “ashna” (beloved boys) are again openly visible on the streets.

The Taleban had forbidden the Pashtun tradition of “ashna”, the grooming of favourite boys for sexual pleasure. In one of his first acts in 1994, Mullah Omar freed a boy who was being fought over by two Mujaheddin warlords in Kandahar, who had started firing artillery rounds at each other’s positions, destroying part of the city. Called to mediate in other such affairs, the Taleban movement quickly implanted itself in Kandahari society.

The Taleban quickly applied their medieval rules to those caught practising sodomy: they were forced to stand under a stone wall, which was felled on top of them. Eye witnesses in Kandahar speak of the change under the Taleban, and the subsequent return of the ashna.

There is a local saying that birds fly over Kandahar using only one wing, the other covering their posterior*. Now the population claims “Birds flew with both wings under the Taleban…but not any more”.

Timothy BANCROFT-HINCHEY
PRAVDA.Ru

* Even birds protecting their arses under U.S occupation. And here in Pakistan the ungratefull Faiz was complaining about `` jism O jaaN bachaa kay chalay``.

Gibran

Agree with SameerJB # 3.

Leave the faith out. There are universally accepted norms of good and bad which are sufficient to get along. It is better to keep the faith within oneself and not open this pandora`s box.

NHK

I just skimmed through the painfully long but well articulated essay on Moderation. If you have to jot down that many words to address the simple concept of moderation then it must be a real cumbersome task to undertake.

Good Luck!

sameer,

It must pain you that the people you would have us ape consider us ``Muslim first``. It is only pratical and rational that we think along these lines now. Like it or not, the ``Ummah`` is being defined for us by the outside...how ironic. Don`t take my word for it, just look at CENTCOM`s region of interest....

``Religion is a personal matter; it should not influence in societal, communal, provincial, national, political, economical, cultural, traditional etc etc matters.``

LOL, this is not a statement of fact, but a statement of belief. Religion does in fact influence the public spheres in the absence of supression and indoctrination to the contrary. A compromise then...leave your radical agnosticism/atheism at the door in Muslim lands and let Muslims recipocate in good-faith elsewhere. :-)

---

Needless to say, the subject matter deals with very ``Muslim`` problems and dissociating ourselves from the very identity that makes us ``problematic`` for some is not the proper way of fixing OUR problems, despite the fantasies and ill-wishing of others.

With the Kurds in the past, and the people of Darfur now (convieniently being used as an anti-Arab crutch by some American commentators) tell us that we are ignorant of our own world, and our self-preception is through other people`s eyes.

We have no idea what is going on in our backyard, but when something is going on elsewhere, we are all too keen to point it out. We`re all to eager to forgive those who we ``like`` (Pakistan forgives China, Iran forgives Russia, Indian Muslims forgive their own government, Pakistanis too...`course no one forgives Israel and USA...well, except the uncle tom`s among us...). If we really want to make a principled stand, we have to start in our own backyard...and guess what my fellow Ummites...Dafur is currently the #1 catastrophe in our neck of the woods....

Okay, the consequences of darfur doesn`t threaten the geopolitical order of our world, nor does it threaten to spill into our streets, so the immediate sense of danger is not there...but come`on...million people displaced? Not even a peep....jeebus, why do so many people ``like`` sudan?

Just wanted to drop a quick line to thank everyone who read the article. Yes it is a little long, but I wanted to touch on a variety of issues which I feel to be revelant to the larger picture.

Just wanted to raise a couple of points:
1. No matter how hard we try, religion will play a huge role in Pakistan and in the Muslim world, to break away from this character will take many many years. For those who argue for complete secularism - do note that change takes time, and by arguing for another extreme in our societies will only create a backlash. Therefore it has to be a gradual process coming from within our country through educated means.

2. Some have mentioned that I am against criticizing the U.S. That is completely incorrect because I have dedicated a whole section titled The United States of Self Intrest, to the article. I am of the opinion that we cannot change the U.S., we are not citizens of that country, a lot of us dont even live there. Therefore, we have to focus on OURSELVES and breakaway from pessimistic, negative and extremist attitudes, because they accomplish so very little!!

3. The government of Pakistan is not perfect, but I am not going to be one of those who talks much, if there are any out there who have an opinion - then also have a solution. That is the sign of true character.

Cheers.

Another dark day in history of Pakistan. An on duty book keeper from city bank has been appointed Prime Minister of Pakistan. My condolences to all fellow Pakistanis.

A Question for all the Liberal Fence Sitting Preachers!!!!!!

``What is the difference between an American pilot who drops a bomb on a Baghdad market and the Iraqi terrorist, who lays a bomb in the same market? The fact that the pilot has a uniform? Or that he drops his bomb from a distance and does not see the children he is killing?``

Uri Avnery (Israel`s Leading Journalist and Activist)

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Hang On!

You talk about Practical Solutions as opposed to Suicide Bombings, I am considerate of the sentiment however also disturbed by the rhetorical nature of this detailed, at places almost self obsessed diatribe.

If the palestinians had practical solutions, access to implementing practical solutions, why the Feck will those demented people kill themselves. Israel`s serial incursions into Palestinian areas and systematic destruction of Institutions, Equipment and systems, diallows any PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS to become a resounding fact. The West whilst crying the Tear of Democracy, supports and upheld all the dictators all over the world and its repressive measures to counter true democratic regimes is a proof of its hipocracy.

Venenzuela and Hugo Chaves has a lot of PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS, yet in the last 6 years the guy has been deposed several times because of his policy of empowering the masses and the downsizing the elites, who are America`s natural partners in the area.

Look we appreciate your effort here, but this nothing more than Boeugeosie Banter, the I am superior by my western upbrining syndrome at its best. Moderation only works if both sides work towards it. You cant rape , kill and maim Palestinians and expect the palestinians to meet at a convention and preach moderation, this is utter nonsense and it applies everywhere....

Do the ends justify the means?? I fully support and endorse the comments of urstruly at 1.
A despotic ruler will at times also sometimes maybe do the right thing. Consistency and accountability can only be ensured through a systematic political process and not through the passing phases of the sweet will of one individual.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Oppressed

You are right. General Pinochet is also considered a economic messiah for Chile, but at what cost - thousand of Chileans murdered, tortured, incarcerated and lives destroyed. A wanted man in his own country and internationally was received with a heroes welcome yesterday by the military establishment of the country. Similarly, take Zia ul Haque, despite his actions that have torn the social fabric of our country and to this date after 15 years it ails us, but when he died, his funeral was attended by millions of people in recognition of his efforts to defeat a superpower and thus protecting the homeland from becoming another Soviet satellite or worst an Indian underdog. Such a funeral is unseen in Pakistan since the death of Quaid-e-Azam. People did not forget his efforts but also admit that inherently his rule was bad. Compare Zia to Yahya, who died under government protection whereas people set his property on fire. Now we have another despot who has not defended this country at any front unlike Zia, has acted just like Yehya imposing Yehya like lecherous reforms which he calls moderation, killed Pakistanis, exiled and totally discredited political and religious leadreship through intimidation and coercion, looted public property, and has done irreparable damage to federation by inciting civil wars in two provinces. His minions and those who benefit from military rule portray him as financial messiah and Shaukat aziz as a financial wizard but those who understand know very well that the magic behind all this wizardry is because of becoming America`s client state and to do its dirty work for and to help it with its imperial agenda. In other words he has managed to feed Pakistanis the Rizq-e-Haram and blood money enmass. This has totally discredited Pakistan in the world community and especially in the Islamic world. One has to look at Michael Moores F-9/11 to see what Americans think of their ``allies`` in the so called war on terrorism. Today we are a pariah nation just as Egypt or Jordan in Muslim world. While countrys like Malysia and not Pakistan are being viewed as the most enlightend and modern yet proud and free in Muslim world today while they told Americans bluntly to get lost.