Umair Raja September 12, 2004
#43 Posted by Ralph on September 17, 2004 6:18:48 am
Ballukhan
I am going to accuse you of being a scholar :)
That was an extremely well-written, IMO accurate, analysis. As my #12 would suggest, I hold Sufism, and some of the great Sufis, in very high regard. Sufism, the way I understand it, is a true religous path that made only limited and nominal concessions to Islam, just enough to ensure its own survival under very harsh philosphical conditions. (if a Sufi could survive the physical wrath of Muslims by agreeing to call the Object of his worship by an arabic word, allah, and by paying obligatory deferences to their man friday called muhammad, to a Sufi`s mind, he didn`t lose much).
My fear arises from the connection of gentlemen like Naqshbandi to Sufism. That plants a seed of doubt in my mind. Do I not fully understand Sufism? More interestingly, do Hindus who revere sufis as ones of their own - I can`t tell the difference between Sufism and much of philosophical Hinduism - have got things all wrong?
It`s hard to believe to anything that warms the heart of Mr. Naqshbandi can be good for humanity, particularly non Muslims. This connection makes it imperative that no matter what our own prior right or wrong views of Sufism may have been, we, at the very least, take another look at Sufism. Could it be that despite the best intentions of Sufis, Sufism itself became just a well-decorated gateway for an entrance into Islam?
I am going to accuse you of being a scholar :)
That was an extremely well-written, IMO accurate, analysis. As my #12 would suggest, I hold Sufism, and some of the great Sufis, in very high regard. Sufism, the way I understand it, is a true religous path that made only limited and nominal concessions to Islam, just enough to ensure its own survival under very harsh philosphical conditions. (if a Sufi could survive the physical wrath of Muslims by agreeing to call the Object of his worship by an arabic word, allah, and by paying obligatory deferences to their man friday called muhammad, to a Sufi`s mind, he didn`t lose much).
My fear arises from the connection of gentlemen like Naqshbandi to Sufism. That plants a seed of doubt in my mind. Do I not fully understand Sufism? More interestingly, do Hindus who revere sufis as ones of their own - I can`t tell the difference between Sufism and much of philosophical Hinduism - have got things all wrong?
It`s hard to believe to anything that warms the heart of Mr. Naqshbandi can be good for humanity, particularly non Muslims. This connection makes it imperative that no matter what our own prior right or wrong views of Sufism may have been, we, at the very least, take another look at Sufism. Could it be that despite the best intentions of Sufis, Sufism itself became just a well-decorated gateway for an entrance into Islam?
#42 Posted by Mitran on September 16, 2004 4:43:04 pm
My humble question to all is as follows.
If the sufies did believe in commonality across religions then why did so many people have to convert - there is a theory that begs more research and that is that sufies were the nice guys who were sent by imperialist Muslim emperors to soften up the general population.
take the example of Sufies in Punjab and Sindh or even the famouse Rumi of Anatolia.
If the sufies did believe in commonality across religions then why did so many people have to convert - there is a theory that begs more research and that is that sufies were the nice guys who were sent by imperialist Muslim emperors to soften up the general population.
take the example of Sufies in Punjab and Sindh or even the famouse Rumi of Anatolia.
#41 Posted by ballukhan on September 16, 2004 4:43:04 pm
#40 by Ralph on September 16, 2004 9:04am PT
The need to subsume sufism into contemporary Islam or not is a political decision of the supporters/detractors. The sufis were mostly condemned because they took away the spiritual authority from the elites who accused that in the name of tariqat (way) they innovated hundreds of false beliefs, and laid down the basis of another shariat besides the Islamic shariat. The sufis were accused of justifying these innovations on the grounds that it was the spiritual knowledge which had been transmitted by word of mouth from generation to generation and constituted a much more efficacious way of communion with God as compared to the known shariat.
Even the sufi thought has gone great political transformation since ages and may appear in some sufi schools as a rigid institutionalized tariqat that undermines the importance of the informal and intense spiritual communication between the murid and his shiekh/murshid.
The need to subsume sufism into contemporary Islam or not is a political decision of the supporters/detractors. The sufis were mostly condemned because they took away the spiritual authority from the elites who accused that in the name of tariqat (way) they innovated hundreds of false beliefs, and laid down the basis of another shariat besides the Islamic shariat. The sufis were accused of justifying these innovations on the grounds that it was the spiritual knowledge which had been transmitted by word of mouth from generation to generation and constituted a much more efficacious way of communion with God as compared to the known shariat.
Even the sufi thought has gone great political transformation since ages and may appear in some sufi schools as a rigid institutionalized tariqat that undermines the importance of the informal and intense spiritual communication between the murid and his shiekh/murshid.
#40 Posted by Ralph on September 16, 2004 9:04:24 am
This is an area on which I would request the kind input of Hindus on Chowk. In general, I have seen that they are very respectful of Sufis.
Naqshbandi`s #37 and #38 reflect the fact that there is far greater connection between Naqshabandi`s Islam and Bulleh Shah like Sufis than people may at first believe.
Should we ignore this connection? If not, what are the implications of this nexus? What are its social and religious consequences? Have the admiring Hindus, in general, known less about Sufis than they should in order to make a better judgement of the character and role of these individuals?
Naqshbandi`s #37 and #38 reflect the fact that there is far greater connection between Naqshabandi`s Islam and Bulleh Shah like Sufis than people may at first believe.
Should we ignore this connection? If not, what are the implications of this nexus? What are its social and religious consequences? Have the admiring Hindus, in general, known less about Sufis than they should in order to make a better judgement of the character and role of these individuals?
#39 Posted by Naqshbandi on September 15, 2004 5:14:32 pm
Great choice of topic romair!
Hazrat Bulleh Shah Qadiri rahmatullah alayhi was, no doubt, one of the greatest saints of the Subcontinent. (Saint is here a translation of the Arabic word `wali` and used in its specific Islamic Sufi sense). His poetry, like that of, eg Rumi, is of a heart annihilated in the Love of Allah! The biggest mistake is to interpret it in a perrenialist sense! He is speaking like a lover so lost in his Divine Beloved that everything *appears* to him to be the same. This is the expression of the Unity of Being [wahdat al wujood] first formulated in these words (the idea and the reality has existed since the first days of Islam eg the Prophet alayhisalatuwa salam`s famous hadith, `He who has seen me has seen The Truth (al Haqq)` ie. Allah or `O Abu Bakr no one knows my Reality except my Rabb!` ) It means that the saint of Allah is reminded of Allah in every object he sees. It does not mean he believes everything is Allah (which goes against basic Islamic teachings and every wali is a Muslim first and foremost; all of them, like Hazrat Bulleh Shah, followers of Sunni orthodoxy and very pious in practise. Thus there criticism of mullahs who practise one thing, preach another! The awliya practise what they preach! )
Main NeevaaN Mera Murshid Uccha...
Main UcchiyaaN naal sang laayee
I am lowly my spiritual guide is lofty!
I have tied my fate to such lofty ones!
Hazrat Bulleh Shah Qadiri rahmatullah alayhi was, no doubt, one of the greatest saints of the Subcontinent. (Saint is here a translation of the Arabic word `wali` and used in its specific Islamic Sufi sense). His poetry, like that of, eg Rumi, is of a heart annihilated in the Love of Allah! The biggest mistake is to interpret it in a perrenialist sense! He is speaking like a lover so lost in his Divine Beloved that everything *appears* to him to be the same. This is the expression of the Unity of Being [wahdat al wujood] first formulated in these words (the idea and the reality has existed since the first days of Islam eg the Prophet alayhisalatuwa salam`s famous hadith, `He who has seen me has seen The Truth (al Haqq)` ie. Allah or `O Abu Bakr no one knows my Reality except my Rabb!` ) It means that the saint of Allah is reminded of Allah in every object he sees. It does not mean he believes everything is Allah (which goes against basic Islamic teachings and every wali is a Muslim first and foremost; all of them, like Hazrat Bulleh Shah, followers of Sunni orthodoxy and very pious in practise. Thus there criticism of mullahs who practise one thing, preach another! The awliya practise what they preach! )
Main NeevaaN Mera Murshid Uccha...
Main UcchiyaaN naal sang laayee
I am lowly my spiritual guide is lofty!
I have tied my fate to such lofty ones!
#38 Posted by Naqshbandi on September 15, 2004 5:14:32 pm
BTW nearly every mehfil of the Ahle Sunnat in Pakistan a and the Pakistani Diaspora usually has someone, at least one naatkhaan, who recites from the poetry of Hazrat Bulleh Shah!
Sometimes whole jalsay are devoted to his memory and praise!
May Allah sanctify his innermost being and give us his faiz!
Sometimes whole jalsay are devoted to his memory and praise!
May Allah sanctify his innermost being and give us his faiz!
#37 Posted by KamranS on September 15, 2004 5:14:32 pm
Wonderful article...good job. I am not punjabi, I hardly understand the language but I have always been fascinated by the vision of Bulley Shah...I have been trying to find the translation of his poems in English but so far no luck...if anyone could tell me where I can find something like that, it would be nice.
Once again, thank you very much Umair Raja for writing such a wonderful article about Bulley Shah!
Once again, thank you very much Umair Raja for writing such a wonderful article about Bulley Shah!
#36 Posted by BruceLee on September 15, 2004 6:41:14 am
BaluKhan
All that you describe sounds very Buddhist-Hindu in its mindblowing way of looking at the oneness of creation!
#35 Posted by tintingem on September 15, 2004 6:41:14 am
Umair,
A most interesting article. Though I have read Rumi, my knowledge of Bullay Shah`s poetry is very poor. As you rightly mentioned, if it wasn`t for Abida Parveen and Junoon, his poetry would have remained unknown to many of us.
Thanks for the wake up call.
A most interesting article. Though I have read Rumi, my knowledge of Bullay Shah`s poetry is very poor. As you rightly mentioned, if it wasn`t for Abida Parveen and Junoon, his poetry would have remained unknown to many of us.
Thanks for the wake up call.
#34 Posted by anuragkhanna on September 15, 2004 1:32:20 am
its so difficult to get out of a habit.
Especially if its of drinking sufi wine.
As bullah himself said:
``Ab lagan lagi ki kariye?
Na ji sakiye te na mariye. ``
Especially if its of drinking sufi wine.
As bullah himself said:
``Ab lagan lagi ki kariye?
Na ji sakiye te na mariye. ``
#33 Posted by Garam_Chai on September 15, 2004 12:06:44 am
#20 echooom
I am not sure how you took my email? I am not trying to portary myself anti-shariat person, since i dont know what shariat is? I have to read, and understand it before i can say anything about it. I simply wrote verses of Hazrat Sulatn Bahu, which i like. I think it has a very deeper meaning, and it has different meaning to different people. That is the beauty of poetry that it fits in multiplt situation. It is not solid like a brick. It is more like a fluid which changes its shape according to its container. It has no LITTERAL , and fixed meaning. There is another beatiful shair of Hazrat Moen-ud-din chisht, which he wrote about Hazrat Ali Hajveri.
Ganj bakhsh faiz-e-alam mazharey noor-e-khuda
naksan ra peer kamal, kamlan ra rehnama
Regards.
I am not sure how you took my email? I am not trying to portary myself anti-shariat person, since i dont know what shariat is? I have to read, and understand it before i can say anything about it. I simply wrote verses of Hazrat Sulatn Bahu, which i like. I think it has a very deeper meaning, and it has different meaning to different people. That is the beauty of poetry that it fits in multiplt situation. It is not solid like a brick. It is more like a fluid which changes its shape according to its container. It has no LITTERAL , and fixed meaning. There is another beatiful shair of Hazrat Moen-ud-din chisht, which he wrote about Hazrat Ali Hajveri.
Ganj bakhsh faiz-e-alam mazharey noor-e-khuda
naksan ra peer kamal, kamlan ra rehnama
Regards.
#32 Posted by teshah on September 14, 2004 8:45:42 pm
WELL DONE UMAIR!
I am afraid our beautiful `maan boli` Punjabi, the laguage of Bulle Shah, may not be drowned in the flood of Urdu brought about by `Matarruaism` which is ruling the roost these days in Pakistan. The Quran says ` Allah speaks only in the language of the people`. Only Punjabi touches the heart of the people as it is their `Maan boli`. It is perhaps why soofies prefer Punjabi, Sindhi, etc., and the Mulla, Arabic and urdu, treating one as God`s language and the other a `national` one.
As pointed out by nasah I also object to calling araeen a `low cast`. I may remind Umair that ther is no horizontal division in Islam on the basis of cast as is proved by Bulle Shah who says ` Araeen, Araeen aakho menu syed nah aakho koi`. In fact a syed is given respect only as a matter of courtesy due to his relationship to the Prophet (PBUH) and not as a matter of right. You will find syeds generally adopting the language and culture of the people to be one with them. So the mention of lower cast by Umair is unfortunate.
I am afraid our beautiful `maan boli` Punjabi, the laguage of Bulle Shah, may not be drowned in the flood of Urdu brought about by `Matarruaism` which is ruling the roost these days in Pakistan. The Quran says ` Allah speaks only in the language of the people`. Only Punjabi touches the heart of the people as it is their `Maan boli`. It is perhaps why soofies prefer Punjabi, Sindhi, etc., and the Mulla, Arabic and urdu, treating one as God`s language and the other a `national` one.
As pointed out by nasah I also object to calling araeen a `low cast`. I may remind Umair that ther is no horizontal division in Islam on the basis of cast as is proved by Bulle Shah who says ` Araeen, Araeen aakho menu syed nah aakho koi`. In fact a syed is given respect only as a matter of courtesy due to his relationship to the Prophet (PBUH) and not as a matter of right. You will find syeds generally adopting the language and culture of the people to be one with them. So the mention of lower cast by Umair is unfortunate.
#31 Posted by ballukhan on September 14, 2004 8:45:41 pm
#27 by BruceLee on September 14, 2004 7:07am PT
``What is the meaning of the motif of the soil?``
sufis see divinity in all aspects of almighty`s manifestation- the soil motif is just about this commonality of substance between the so called polarities of high-low, rider-ridden, king-slave, musalmaan-kafir.
The essence of this world view is in the second line itself:
``Vaah vaah maati de gulzaar; ``
These diversities belong to the same gulzaar- and the sufi maintains this view when he beholds even the tiniest of the almighty`s creations!!
Try this-
Focus your vision on an ant and try to see it with this feeling that it is a manifestation of the almighty.
You would realize what the sufis feel after a few minutes!!!!
``What is the meaning of the motif of the soil?``
sufis see divinity in all aspects of almighty`s manifestation- the soil motif is just about this commonality of substance between the so called polarities of high-low, rider-ridden, king-slave, musalmaan-kafir.
The essence of this world view is in the second line itself:
``Vaah vaah maati de gulzaar; ``
These diversities belong to the same gulzaar- and the sufi maintains this view when he beholds even the tiniest of the almighty`s creations!!
Try this-
Focus your vision on an ant and try to see it with this feeling that it is a manifestation of the almighty.
You would realize what the sufis feel after a few minutes!!!!
#30 Posted by ballukhan on September 14, 2004 8:45:41 pm
#27 by BruceLee on September 14, 2004 7:07am PT
``What is the meaning of the motif of the soil?``
sufis see divinity in all aspects of almighty`s manifestation- the soil motif is just about this commonality of substance between the so called polarities of high-low, rider-ridden, king-slave, musalmaan-kafir.
The essence of this world view is in the second line itself:
``Vaah vaah maati de gulzaar; ``
These diversities belong to the same gulzaar- and the sufi maintains this view when he beholds even the tiniest of the almighty`s creations!!
Try this-
Focus your vision on an ant and try to see it with this feeling that it is a manifestation of the almighty.
You would realize what the sufis feel after a few minutes!!!!
``What is the meaning of the motif of the soil?``
sufis see divinity in all aspects of almighty`s manifestation- the soil motif is just about this commonality of substance between the so called polarities of high-low, rider-ridden, king-slave, musalmaan-kafir.
The essence of this world view is in the second line itself:
``Vaah vaah maati de gulzaar; ``
These diversities belong to the same gulzaar- and the sufi maintains this view when he beholds even the tiniest of the almighty`s creations!!
Try this-
Focus your vision on an ant and try to see it with this feeling that it is a manifestation of the almighty.
You would realize what the sufis feel after a few minutes!!!!
#29 Posted by dionysus on September 14, 2004 10:01:59 am
sameer #10
I think you are right, we shouldn`t be so quick in declaring so and so the greatest Punjabi poet. Waris Shah`s Heer, as you point out, is the Bible, Quran and Geeta of Punjabi culture. But I don`t think anyone can argue that Ghulam Farid has supplanted Bulleh Shah has the people`s favourite poet. Ghulam Farid is extremely popular with both classical and folk singers and this probably at least partly explains it, but I don`t think it`s the whole story.
I think you are right, we shouldn`t be so quick in declaring so and so the greatest Punjabi poet. Waris Shah`s Heer, as you point out, is the Bible, Quran and Geeta of Punjabi culture. But I don`t think anyone can argue that Ghulam Farid has supplanted Bulleh Shah has the people`s favourite poet. Ghulam Farid is extremely popular with both classical and folk singers and this probably at least partly explains it, but I don`t think it`s the whole story.
#28 Posted by Ralph on September 14, 2004 7:12:31 am
ballukhan #25
That is really sad!
I am glad someone (who else but an Indian) picked up on what I found the funniest part of the article.
For others: Was Bulleh Shah really a Muslim? Does Sufism really have anything to do with Islam?
Or is this merely an association of convenience?
That is really sad!
I am glad someone (who else but an Indian) picked up on what I found the funniest part of the article.
For others: Was Bulleh Shah really a Muslim? Does Sufism really have anything to do with Islam?
Or is this merely an association of convenience?
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