We Don’t Need You Shaukat Aziz

It is a shame for our nation that we have lost trust in all and sundry. Come on, this nation is 57 years old and still we are caught up in a battle of power and lustful dominance.

Why don`t we need Shaukat Aziz? We do because here is a man who has come to serve the nation leaving behind, perhaps, the most lucrative job that a Pakistani has held. We need to be proud of him as he is the only Asian (not South Asian but Asian) to have reached one of the most executive posts in world banking. It is no farce nor a facade.

I guess we need to give Shaukat Aziz time before we come to such irrational conclusions.

As for a friend who said that the economy turned around due to planes hitting buildings, sir, we needed someone to establish opportunities; to revamp infrastructures; to fund and put money in the right places and to and to establish credibility....we needed Shaukat Aziz and no air-planes helped this cause of hours.

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#74 by teshah

“He is a capable man? How have you judged him so?”

From the mere fact that Shaukat Aziz rose to the highest echelon of an extremely tough and merit-based organization.

Lets face it. You, and others like you, have a problem with him because he made it big in a merit-based system in the West. Given the nature of your, ie, Pakistani civil and political culture, SA would have never risen if he had stayed in Pakistan. A man (or a woman) like SA has no chance of leading the government in Pakistan. Pakistan is lucky to have him in that position. I know, your Mr. Pagara may be right. SA is a two-eyed man in the Land of Ignorance and Intolerance. Leaders like SA are an anomaly in Pakistan. Because he is very smart, not corrupt, loves Pakistan, and is trying to give that god-forsaken country a semblance of respect and dignity, he’ll be either killed or thrown out. That says something about your Pakistan.

dear nukecular, to expect shri arjun jee to be sensible or to shed his hate for pakistan is to expect george bush to have a brain -- it aint gonna happen ever -- you are wasting your time interacting with the likes of such people -- unless of course you`re having fun and not taking it all too seriously -- and by the way where is kkkandk when we need him

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67 by godot

SA a capable man? Firstly he was not selected but elected by the most backward constituencies of Pakistan where the people did not know even who was this man Shoukat Aziz by the name. The voters there did not know even whether he was a `desi` or `Wallaiti` babu. I myself belonged to one of the constituencies and was very curious about the antecidents of SA when some wise guy told me that he is neither a `Desi` nor a `Willaiti`` but a `Farmi` one and probably from a military farm.

He is a capable man? How have you judged him so? Media is projecting him as a sort of super technocrat but all his technocracy-cum-theocracy failed to bring down rain in Pakistan for which he offered even `Nimaze istasqa` in Masjade Nabvi, never done before by any body as proclaims his propaganda minister of the `Talli` brand. Pir Pagara has made a forecast that he won`t stay as pm for more than a year but most people do not give him that much time even as his master may like to bring in a better man as he is wont to do; first Jamali, then Shujaat, and now SA, there is a line of capable men one better than the other. Every one performs Umra as a first priority but prays only for Pakistan and its people. Nothing for themselves. The result is obvious.

Arjun - Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didnt get a chance to read my previous post. Well, for your convenience, Ive copied and pasted it below.

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#58 by nukecular on September 8, 2004 8:23pm PT
A request to posters - Please do not use the term `P*ki` in any future posts. It is a racial slur, and unless you unequivocally wish to racially abuse someone, please do not use it in your posts. (Note I havent ruled out `intent` altogether)

I trust we can show each other at least some respect. The forum moderators seem to have been caught napping (I assume?) - the use of such language should not be allowed, as it can, and probably already has, offended many people.

Lets try to be civilised shall we!

---

Now back to your post:

So at least you agree that Pakistanis are proud of their religion and independence - well, its a start. Indian and Pakistani cultures are quite similar, so, to a foreigner, one is normally meant to imply the other. For example, a restaurant known as Lahore Balti House, is referred to as being Indian, when strictly speaking it is Pakistani.

The main reason for the widespread use of term `Indian cuisine` is simply because India`s been around for a lot longer, so people are more familiar with the term. And besides, no matter what you call it, its still the same kind of food. I dont see how you can be proud of something like that.

Yoga, outsourcing? Arent we lumping things together here? Outsourcing isn`t a culture, neither is yoga...but to your credit, both are positives and associated with India. I don`t see how this is relevant to my original post though. Anyway...

Pakistanis watch both Indian and Pakistani movies. Besides both industries strive on the bulk of the poor and lower middle class population escaping their rather petty and meaningless existence for a few hours. But, again, the Indian film industry has become somewhat synonymous to India`s presence in the world as a force to be reckoned with. Full credit there!

The tribal areas are harbouring foreign infiltrators, essentially being disloyal to the State of Pakistan. They are free to practise their beliefs, but not free to harbour terrorists. Its somewhat of a geographical issue too, so I dont want to get into that too much.

As far as Kashmir is concerned, I know for a fact that the Pakistani people support the freedom fighters in occupied Kashmir, the same way we support Chechyan fighters and the Palestinians. I am not in a position to comment on whether there is any cross border infiltration, but I believe my government when they say there isnt. I imagine you believe your government, which is only fair. And no I dont think the IA hijacking was carried out by RAW.

`How ironic..Pakis keep saying India should hand over Kashmir because India is poor and it needs to focus on poverty...yet when the largest number of Islamic terrorists come from the jihadis factories of binori, Pakis blame it on poverty and lack of education..`

Ill remind you of your use of language here. Pakistan never asked India to hand over Kashmir because India was poor. Kashmir is India`s only muslim state, which should have been declared a part of Pakistan at the time of the partition. It`s a matter of principle, my friend, not a matter of economics.

I think you`ve proved my point about poverty and lack of education breeding religious extremists There are exceptions, e.g. Mohammad Atta and the lot, but on the whole, the correlation is significantly positive.

Could I ask why you seem to dislike Pakistanis so much? If you could give me specific, rather than generic reasons, it would be much appreciated. Do you think its fair to hold such bitter hatred for 160 or so million people you have never even met? If you dont want to discuss this in public, Im happy to send you my email address.

Rgds

Arjun - Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didnt get a chance to read my previous post. Well, for your convenience, Ive copied and pasted it below.

---

#58 by nukecular on September 8, 2004 8:23pm PT
A request to posters - Please do not use the term `P*ki` in any future posts. It is a racial slur, and unless you unequivocally wish to racially abuse someone, please do not use it in your posts. (Note I havent ruled out `intent` altogether)

I trust we can show each other at least some respect. The forum moderators seem to have been caught napping (I assume?) - the use of such language should not be allowed, as it can, and probably already has, offended many people.

Lets try to be civilised shall we!

---

Now back to your post:

So at least you agree that Pakistanis are proud of their religion and independence - well, its a start. Indian and Pakistani cultures are quite similar, so, to a foreigner, one is normally meant to imply the other. For example, a restaurant known as Lahore Balti House, is referred to as being Indian, when strictly speaking it is Pakistani.

The main reason for the widespread use of term `Indian cuisine` is simply because India`s been around for a lot longer, so people are more familiar with the term. And besides, no matter what you call it, its still the same kind of food. I dont see how you can be proud of something like that.

Yoga, outsourcing? Arent we lumping things together here? Outsourcing isn`t a culture, neither is yoga...but to your credit, both are positives and associated with India. I don`t see how this is relevant to my original post though. Anyway...

Pakistanis watch both Indian and Pakistani movies. Besides both industries strive on the bulk of the poor and lower middle class population escaping their rather petty and meaningless existence for a few hours. But, again, the Indian film industry has become somewhat synonymous to India`s presence in the world as a force to be reckoned with. Full credit there!

The tribal areas are harbouring foreign infiltrators, essentially being disloyal to the State of Pakistan. They are free to practise their beliefs, but not free to harbour terrorists. Its somewhat of a geographical issue too, so I dont want to get into that too much.

As far as Kashmir is concerned, I know for a fact that the Pakistani people support the freedom fighters in occupied Kashmir, the same way we support Chechyan fighters and the Palestinians. I am not in a position to comment on whether there is any cross border infiltration, but I believe my government when they say there isnt. I imagine you believe your government, which is only fair. And no I dont think the IA hijacking was carried out by RAW.

`How ironic..Pakis keep saying India should hand over Kashmir because India is poor and it needs to focus on poverty...yet when the largest number of Islamic terrorists come from the jihadis factories of binori, Pakis blame it on poverty and lack of education..`

Ill remind you of your use of language here. Pakistan never asked India to hand over Kashmir because India was poor. Kashmir is India`s only muslim state, which should have been declared a part of Pakistan at the time of the partition. It`s a matter of principle, my friend, not a matter of economics.

I think you`ve proved my point about poverty and lack of education breeding religious extremists There are exceptions, e.g. Mohammad Atta and the lot, but on the whole, the correlation is significantly positive.

Could I ask why you seem to dislike Pakistanis so much? If you could give me specific, rather than generic reasons, it would be much appreciated. Do you think its fair to hold such bitter hatred for 160 or so million people you have never even met? If you dont want to discuss this in public, Im happy to send you my email address.

Rgds

Arjun - Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didnt get a chance to read my previous post. Well, for your convenience, Ive copied and pasted it below.



#58 by nukecular on September 8, 2004 8:23pm PT
A request to posters - Please do not use the term `P*ki` in any future posts. It is a racial slur, and unless you unequivocally wish to racially abuse someone, please do not use it in your posts. (Note I havent ruled out `intent` altogether)

I trust we can show each other at least some respect. The forum moderators seem to have been caught napping (I assume?) - the use of such language should not be allowed, as it can, and probably already has, offended many people.

Lets try to be civilised shall we!



Now back to your post:

So at least you agree that Pakistanis are proud of their religion and independence - well, its a start. Indian and Pakistani cultures are quite similar, so, to a foreigner, one is normally meant to imply the other. For example, a restaurant known as Lahore Balti House, is referred to as being Indian, when strictly speaking it is Pakistani.

The main reason for the widespread use of term `Indian cuisine` is simply because India`s been around for a lot longer, so people are more familiar with the term. And besides, no matter what you call it, its still the same kind of food. I dont see how you can be proud of something like that.

Yoga, outsourcing? Arent we lumping things together here? Outsourcing isn`t a culture, neither is yoga...but to your credit, both are positives and associated with India. I don`t see how this is relevant to my original post though. Anyway...

Pakistanis watch both Indian and Pakistani movies. Besides both industries strive on the bulk of the poor and lower middle class population escaping their rather petty and meaningless existence for a few hours. But, again, the Indian film industry has become somewhat synonymous to India`s presence in the world as a force to be reckoned with. Full credit there!

The tribal areas are harbouring foreign infiltrators, essentially being disloyal to the State of Pakistan. They are free to practise their beliefs, but not free to harbour terrorists. Its somewhat of a geographical issue too, so I dont want to get into that too much.

As far as Kashmir is concerned, I know for a fact that the Pakistani people support the freedom fighters in occupied Kashmir, the same way we support Chechyan fighters and the Palestinians. I am not in a position to comment on whether there is any cross border infiltration, but I believe my government when they say there isnt. I imagine you believe your government, which is only fair. And no I dont think the IA hijacking was carried out by RAW.

`How ironic..Pakis keep saying India should hand over Kashmir because India is poor and it needs to focus on poverty...yet when the largest number of Islamic terrorists come from the jihadis factories of binori, Pakis blame it on poverty and lack of education..`

Ill remind you of your use of language here. Pakistan never asked India to hand over Kashmir because India was poor. Kashmir is India`s only muslim state, which should have been declared a part of Pakistan at the time of the partition. It`s a matter of principle, my friend, not a matter of economics.

I think you`ve proved my point about poverty and lack of education breeding religious extremists There are exceptions, e.g. Mohammad Atta and the lot, but on the whole, the correlation is significantly positive.

Could I ask why you seem to dislike Pakistanis so much? If you could give me specific, rather than generic reasons, it would be much appreciated. Do you think its fair to hold such bitter hatred for 160 or so million people you have never even met? If you dont want to discuss this in public, Im happy to send you my email address.

Rgds

#66 by plats8

Reading Chowk, not really sure exactly what made you think “that Musharraf was the best thing that happened to Pakistan in a long time.” Musharraf is probably the most maligned individual at Chowk. At Chowk, in the name of ``democracy`` in Pakistan, the corrupt and the incompetent sinners have now become saints, forgetting that one of those “saints” was, just like “Shaukat Chilli”, a creation of another Islamist dictator far worse than Musharraf. Such is the world of Chowk, a place overflowing with intellectual incisiveness and moral uprightness.

Musharraf, his dictatorship notwithstanding, is a very sensible man. He’s smart enough to pick a very capable man in Shaukat Aziz as pm.

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What absolute garbage. Pakistan has a separate identity and the people are proud of their religion, culture and independence. The people of Pakistan would never, even for a second, consider becoming a part of India. Economic growth, for all its hyped up to be, comes with time and commitment. An independent State to practice what you believe in, without fear of persecution, unfortunately, does not come that easily. Just ask the people of Palestine & Israel, Chechniya and Jammu and Kashmir.

Inquirer`s post illustrates, in my view, quite well the fundamental lack of security the Indian Government has managed to instill in some Indians. Anti-Pakistani propaganda, from some Hindu Indians (whom I assume are nationalists), has become so commonplace that it is hardly even worth mentioning.

There can be no doubt that the present Pakistani government is finally bringing Pakistan back on the road to economic prosperity. Note this is not to say (Nikki) that democracy is flourishing, but its certainly better than what the people of Pakistan have had over most of the last decade of the previous century. I strongly feel that critics of the current government are either politically motivated or insincere in their aspirations for the Pakistani people.

On the other hand, I can fully understand why some Indians feel a hightened sense of insecurity in the aftermath of September 11. No one wants a superpower, and in particular the might US of A, to side with the so called enemy. But again if you consider that America`s only interest in the region, from a political standpoint, is to neutralise the threat of terrorism emanating from this part of the world, the issue of Pakistan getting Israel type status is non-existent. In this case, any worries India may have with the current situation are not well founded at all. In fact, due to the lack of intellect in Islamabad, the government hasnt even been able to `milk the cow properly` in the current situation, but that in itself is another debate.

There are also some significant arguments to suggest that almost all anti-Pakistani propaganda is carried out by Hindu nationalists, who dont necessarily have the best interests of India at heart.

For starters, India itself gets nothing from an economically weak Pakistan. Pakistan`s military strength has been and will remain a priority for all governments, regardless of whether the economy is thriving or not. One could argue whether or not this is indeed the best long term strategy, but perhaps it is worth remembering that before a country can prosper, it must learn to survive. The current hostile relationship between India and Pakistan demands that both countries are militarily equipped to deal with any potential threats.

If India`s claims of Pakistan`s support of the Kashmiri insurgents are to be believed, it should also be remembered that an economically weak Pakistan would be devastating to peace in the region. With nukecular weapons in mass production on both sides of the border, neither country would benefit from any sort of conflict (which would inevitably break out into a nukecular war). Of course, its is also common knowledge that, under certain circumstances, poverty and a lack of education breeds religious extremism.

I think both governments and its people have a responsibility. The Indians need to take note of the delicate situation, and find a strategy to tackle it. Anti-Pakistani propaganda serves absolutely no useful purpose, in my view, as it simply alienates discussion and adds fuel to an already raging fire of hate.

Let`s all try to be a little more sensitive in our posts. Crude, unsophisticated remarks refect badly on you, your countrymen and your country (Im referring to everyone here btw). I hope my advice will carry at least some weight.

Rgds

Godot,
``I believe Shaukat Aziz may be the best thing that has happened to Pakistan in a long
time.``

Romair,
``Shaukut Aziz is the best thing that has happened to Pakistan in a long time.``

And I kept thinking that Musharraf was the best thing that happened to Pakistan in a
long time - or so were the claims on chowk. Has the ``best thing`` mantle been passed
on to Aziz now ?

I did not review the responses to the article before sending in my post #62. There seems to be a very widespread disillusionment among the Pakistanis about Pakistan. This is not surprising but should be reconciled at the earliest otherwise their is powder keg with lighted fuse, if this feeling is also present in Pakistan itself. Of course, it may just be the Pakistani diaspora that is confused and anti-Musharraf for some reason.

The most commonsense approach would be to recognize and declare the folly of the partition of India by Pakistan and the prudent course of action would be to proceed in a deliberate fashion to undo the folly. Of course, it can be done only if India wants to participate in it.

INDIANS MAY NOT WANT TO IMPORT TROUBLES FROM PAKISTAN.

But it is up to Pakistan to offer this.

Re: #54

“Sheikh Sycophant -- Shaukat Chilli”

And these people have the audacity to think of themselves as intelligent! How can a thinking person take this seriously! These opinions belong in a trash can!!! My very point proven right!