2004: One Year Closer to Nineteen Eighty-four

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Sound observation of the day-
The only thing worse than a commie is a boring commie.

Whats also ironic is that few US cheerleaders have a problem with the mo: the ends justify the means...in the mouths of capitalists, its the sound of golden fleece...

Nima,

Well done.

Re:nimashirali#16

The real problem that I have with your article is this tendency to blame US for every problem on this planet. This has become very fashionable and chic, especially in Europe and Pakistan. Let`s look at the facts. In the entire nineties, the US played a reasonably honest broker between Israelis and Palestinians and nearly hammered out a fairly equitable deal. Yasser Arafat decided to walk away from it all and launch his mindless intifada, which is the cause of so much Palestinian suffering. If he had accepted the solution with some minor adjustments, Palestinians would have been all set today.

As far as Iraq is concerned, it is true that US supported Saddam earlier, but it was as a means to contain the Iranian revolution, which was yet another gem of a contribution from the Islamic world. Iranians today are realizing how ridiculous that revolution was but are unable to free themselves from the mullahs. Then Saddam decided to go ballistic and invade his other neighbor for no apparent reason besides megalomania. If that resulted in economic sanctions, is it the fault of the US or the fault of the Iraqi regime?

I am not saying that the US foreign policy has been harmless. Far from it. The US behaves in its own rational self-interest like any other nation and it does make mistakes like its support for the Afghan mujahideen in the eighties. The problem is the effort to demonize the US foreign policy as if it is an evil conspiracy against the Islamic world. That is a bogus argument which enables the Islamic world from avoding responsibility for its own actions. The real focus has to be on why the vast millions of good, moderate muslims all over the planet are not raising their collective voice and taking action against Islamic fundamentalism, dictatorships and other evils in their societies instead of searching for scapegoats all the time.

The entire balance of US foreign policy does not provide any justification for murdering 3000 civilians on 9/11. I can never accept any kind of justification for that because it was a pre-meditated, pure act of evil with the sole purpose of somehow defeating western civilization and creating an opportunity for Islamic fundamentalism to spread its fascist wings. Thankfully the US is not like Russia and it hits back hard.

Nima:

There are two sides of each coin. You have very eloquently advocated the case from one side of the coin. Many of the tings you said are undeniable and the conclusions drwan thereof have merits. The other side of the coin is intellectually equally impresssivee. A person can draw just the opposite conclusions from the other side of the coin, based on equally solid facts and figures.

For every Cuba, North Korea and Iraq, there are examples of the nations who have greatly benfited from USA. The US share of world economy has been constantly declining since WWII and all what you have mentioned about geopolitics of USA since WWII has not helped USA economically. For example what have USA gotten from poring billions into Egypt (alongwith Israel) since the Camp David accord in 1973? I suggest you to look at the economy of Egypt since 1973. It has grown 8-fold since then. In a way, Iraq is a price paid for Egypt although I understand that reasons have nothing to do with recovering some of the billions poured into Egypt as aid.

Jordan is another example with no oil, almost no tourism, exports or anything. So US helped develop a service sector economy.

Most of the foreign exchange reserves of China, India, Taiwan, and other Asian tigers are the result of business relationships with the USA. Almost all the faculty members of Pakistani universities have gotten their higher education in the USA and most of it for free like myself.

In Africa, USA quietly and systematically helped remove apartheid from south Africa through embargoes.

Despite all the prpaganda, US economy is 85 percent internal. Therefore, most of the income generated by US corporations come from within USA followed by industrialized nations of mostly Western Europe. Today, Japanese car, Toyota is the best selling car in the USA.

US does play politics internationally which is not liked by many in the world but US is seldom responsible for the povery of nations. Take Malaysia for example under Mahathir Mohammaed. He was very vocal critic of USA yet US chip makers prefered to invest money in Malaysia and many components of PC are manufactured in Malaysia. Nike is today the second biggest source of foreign exchange after rice in Veitnam. All Philippine economy is dependent on US companies, except local San Miguel beer company.

In Pakistan, US companies have almost monopoly on medicine market. A cough syrup costing 5 dollars by the same manufacturer in Pakistan sells for 20 rupees (33 cents). They make money by selling it for 5 dollars than selling for 33 cents. The combined income of all US pharmaceutical companies from Pakistan is less than 100 million dollars. Lever Brothers of Netherlands have been the biggest company in Pakistan in homecare products. They could have easily make a killing by setting up prices of their choice for all their products since competition could not meet the demand of all Pakistanis. Actually foreign companies are much less involved in price gouging and tax evasion than Pakistani companies.

No super power has ever been angelic towards the rest in the history of the world. So why much more is expected from USA than the trend of world history? Actually USA has been one of least harmful super power in world histoy. I also disagee with US policies towards Palestine but I also understand that Palestine is not the world; it is about 5-6 million people from the world population of more than 6 billions (one tenth of one percent). Palestine is not the biggest concern for US but it is for Muslims and Arabs in particular.

Did US play any role in the most recent holocaust in Rwanda-Burundi? How did US respond? What did US got from Somalia except dead bodies of their soldiers for ending famine and restoring some sense of peace? Afghanistan is not a heaven of justice, prosperity and democracy but it never was. At least now women can get medical attention, education and Kabul has running water and electricity. Should we not thankful to USA for it, in addition to stabilizing Pakistani economy so that every Pakistani tom, dick and harry can claim to be responsible for recovery?

Just imagine if instead of USA, Russia was the sole super power? First of all they would have never let go of so much central Asian land to Muslims. Now there are 5 new Muslim countries in the region and each one is bigger than Palestine. Did USA play any role in bringing USSR down and letting 50 million or more Muslims have independent nations?

How can I forget that President Clinton refused to shake hand with Pakistani military dictator Musharraf on the basis of principles while Supreme Court of Pakistan rubber stamped his anti-constitutional act(s)? Shouldn`t I have more respect for Clinton than idiots like Irshad Ahmed Khan (then CJSC Pakistan) and Musuharraf? I do!!

rahul_capri,

Well yeah, altruism and a bit of selflessness may well do the trick. People are just too retarded to think otherwise....so I beg to differ, the alternatives are what appeal to the people with intellects of 7-14 year olds. And they tend to dominate...go figure.

nima,

How do we discredit the followers of an ideology that deem the deaths of 300,000+ people as necessary,or acceptable, or at the very least ignorable in the name of said ideology? The numbers don`t matter, it`s the cause. How do we reason with this kind of mindset? If I remember correctly, in Orwell`s 1984 he pretty much opines that you can`t...there`s no sanity in the masses.

This is Nima Shirali, author of the article. Before asserting my response to some of the written comments, I must mention two preliminary points. First, my gender is male. Secondly, I am not Muslim, as one commentator apparently thought.

For those who believe I`m an advocate and supporter of Islamic fundamentalism, I advise a quick look at my other work, especially the article entitled ``The Islamic Republic of Iran and the Question of Palestinian Statehood`` (www.merecforum.org). As a victim of Islamic fundamentalism, I have exhausted all my abilities so far to undermine this violent ideology that has justified many vicious acts against humanity. This article was meant to deal with another issue and Islamic fundamentalism was not the topic. Hence, criticizing the work by saying ``the writer failed to speak of fundamentalism`` is parallel to criticizing a mathematics book for not containing chemistry.

Moreover, we need to realize the reality that 9/11 was not without provocation. Decades of intervention in other nations` affairs (i.e. the CIA overthrow of Dr. Mossadegh`s government in Iran--a democratically elected government that nationalized oil, support for dictators like [ironically] Saddam Hussein, etc) have caused inexplicable resentment towards the US. Some of you sound as if you may be concerned about the Third World. If you are, you need to become cognizant of the effects that US-implemented economic sanctions have had in places like Iran, Cuba, and (formerly) Iraq. The UN has estimated that between 300,000-500,000 children under the age of five died as a result of the twelve years of US-backed sanctions.

This is not about being ``left`` or ``right`` wing. It is about considering the facts and making logical conclusions that are not based on CNN news reports. Years of being in war as a child and of living in the impoverished Third World have had their effects on my views. Now, I feel a moral obligation to challenge the oppressors, defend the weak, and speak independently.

The objections of those who defend war, oppression, violence, and killing innocent Iraqi children only serve to strengthen my conviction.

All this 50 page pontification and the answer is altruism? Might appeal to 7-14 year olds.As for the responses,this is what you get when you try to solve all the problems of the world in one article.

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Nima:

I don`t know to what extent of the truth to your observation that the elitist and oppressive West causes folks of the under-developed countries to support `strong` dictators. In fact, aside from maybe a couple of instance (themselves dubious), this line of logic is faulty.

Agreed that there is a corporate link that can be seen. Corporate interests, it seems, more than `national` will eventually guide policies (more determinantly so than today).

It`s a matter of how resources are distributed. And how we see people - as mere consumers or someone to invest in. For multi-nationals, it is mostly the former.

However, there are always examples of hope scattered around the globe where resources are distributed along non-elistist lines. Hugo Chavez of Venezuela is perhaps the most brilliant one. Latin America has been an area most invovled with the capitalist - lefitst struggles. Despite being in America`s backyard (or maybe because of this), the people of that region are far more active in arguing for their rights than say the folks of the middle east.

I0 amir
//...any surprise that Pakistanis, who have very little interest in liberal causes given their government structure and institutions, have suddenly become Jeffersonian democrats..//

Exactly. Pakis` crocodile tears for liberal causes has come a little to late.

Uncle sam has suffered (like rest of us) and has wisened up. Europeans are still fooling around because they haven`t seen the real face Islamic Fundamentalism.

I0 amir
//...any surprise that Pakistanis, who have very little interest in liberal causes given their government structure and institutions, have suddenly become Jeffersonian democrats..//

Exactly. Pakis` crocodile tears for liberal causes has come a little too late.

Uncle sam has suffered (like rest of us) and has wisened up. Europeans are still fooling around because they haven`t seen the real face Islamic Fundamentalism.

#1 by arjun_m on September 7, 2004 9:41am PT
``I think we can all vividly recollect the Madrid train bombings, which were undoubtedly in response to Spanish participation in the war.


And 9/11 was undoubtedly in response to some other wrong? I can see where this is going...``

Undoubtedly YES! 9/11 is doing of the Americans themselves. If they don`t change their foreign policies then this is just the beginning.

Brilliant article and very well put. This rant about democracy from the US is just becoming unbearable. I don`t even know if Al Gore should have been governing America instead of Bush. When there is a major flaw in the elections of the World`s most popular democracy, then a rant from them deosn`t make sense.
Also, what happens to the Palestinians every day, when they get brutally murdered by the Israeli forces, supported by India and America with new and modern weapon systems and money? They get killed. So when they kill their enemy then why is that a problem? It is a war. Americans have destroyed their homeland, taken over their homes, killed and massacred their children, and then have the guts to preach democracy? The doings of the Palestinias are justified. You kill them they kill you. Simple. The only problem is that they are Muslims otherwise they would have been termed Freedom-Fighters.

``The American people DO have a choice. They`ll exercise that choice come Nov 2nd. ``
and choose the lesser evil? I really don`t see a ``good`` choice coming out of this election. Both are bad for Muslims and will make the Palestinians suffer.

To The Author: But please don`t be dis-heartened by what people have written. I have read alot on this website and most of these people, have very set and clumsy ideas. What they have written is their trade mark. Don`t even be bothered. They do it to put their two cents in there too so they can feel special. Their ability to think and make coherent judgement has been clouded with the greed to make more money and ``fit in`` in a land whihc is not their own. They are very few here at Chowk who give constructive criticism and whose feedback makes sense. America is one country who if will not change their ideology and policies will bite the dust. The Holy Roman Empire was broken by the Muslims, the Byzantinians were defeated by Napolean, and the Nazis were defeated by the Allies. As Toynbee said, ``Every nation is like a dot on a car`s wheel``. So if it is in charge right now it will be in our shoes pretty soon.

Re:#6

The problem is that a lot of people with Islamist agendas are becoming allies with the liberal causes and using the cover of liberalism to protect and further their pan-Islamic agenda. The attacks on Bush, capitalism etc. are just on the surface. Their real objective is to slow down and stop the war on terrorism, which is hurting Islamic fundamentalism all over. The world ignored Islamic fundamentalism for the past 20-30 years and we are paying the price for that. The Islamists have noticed that the weakness of the west and for that matter India, is our attraction to liberalism and its egalitarian ways. Hence they try to exploit that weakness and use the cover of human rights and democracy, to further their pan-Islamic agenda.

Is it any surprise that Pakistanis, who have very little interest in liberal causes given their government structure and institutions, have suddenly become Jeffersonian democrats? After the Taliban got the boot and the entire jihad express has been derailed, they have no other option but to find any way possible to halt the juggernaut. The Europeans have bought into this BS but thankfully, the US is not so naive and is not getting fooled.

Bush is worse than Hitler and the Madrid bombings are somehow justified because of spain`s alliance with the US…..This is the kind of left wing propoganda that pushes moderates to the right. Bush`s lead over Kerry is already in the double digits and it looks like more moderates are moving to the Bush side.