The Tale of Five Rivers

An encore is in order!

---

#12 by echoboom on September 13, 2004 1:40pm PT
malik99:10
haaa haaaa haaa and Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, HaaaaaaaaaaaaH.

The `tail` of five rivers is now neatly tucked where the sun never shines. `` O ghairat aani jaani shai vay, bunday nooN dhit honaa chaeeda aye``

Shoild CHOWK-STAFF would now delete the ``article``? Probably not. You see he hates Islam & muslims. That, in CHOWK wisdom, is a sure sign of being `modern` `emancipated` `evolved` and `reformed`.

No wonder they are terrified of mullahs [good word--use it often]

Thank you for the article. What the sufies achieved over centuries , the Saudi funded schools seem to have been able to undo within a genration.

Regd. settlement of foreign tribes in Panjab, for example Niazis of Mianwali , they must have displaces native tribes both muslim as well as non-muslim. Does this also explain the feudal setup in Panjab and in Pakistan? So in effect unless the past 50 years have resulted in social mobility , very few of the descendants of local tribes own land or resources in the land of their ancestors.

How true are the above statements?

Punjab paid the highest price for the partition. Its land, rivers, Language, script writing, people and families everything divided. Millions of Punjabis died and suffered during partition.

But today in Pakistan Punjabis are declared to be the only bad guys. Listen to all these Sindhis, Baluchis, Pakhtoons and Urdu Speaking they all blame Punjab for every bad thing.

Some years ago I heard a slogan in Karachi i.e. ``Sindhi Muhajir Bhai Bhai, Dhoti Pug kahan say aye``

I also see that instead of rebutting all these allegations, Punjabis are defensive.

By the grace of Allah we Punjabis have the oldest civilization, we are intelligent, our people are Nobel Lauriat, we are brave warriors, we are hardworking and following Chinese we are the second biggest expatriate’s nation on the Globe, an example of success.

Why Punjabis are so defensive, why they do not challenge these allegations??

Urstruly

``As a result what we have today is the aadha teetar aadha batair of sikhism and present day sufism which treads right onto the boundries of Kufr and Shirk. I don`t understand``

As I understand it Sikhism derived from the Bhakti movement and Guru Nanak was a Hindu who founded a totally new and wonderful religion. So how can it be Kufr and Shirk when it has nothing to do with Islam? Anyway, that psychopath Aurengzeb had his skin set on fire by the Sikhs too just like you and thats why he started chopping their heads off around the time of their ninth Guru, I believe. What a psychopath. Try smoking a joint it will help you get over your hatreds and inferiority complex.

nhk -- its not a few phrases sir -- its a shame that when you`ve been caught like this you actually have the gall to say that you havent -- people arent blind -- if you want to mention stuff about ``a few poets/sufis`` then you should attribute it to the writer where you picked up the ideas from (in this case you didnt even bother paraphrase it in your own words) --

I do not speak Punjabi at Home. I have never read Punjabi and its literature. My parents spoke Punjabi. Bulleh Shah only comes after 11 PM after a few drinks - Mandar Dha Dey, Masjid Da Deh. Why?

What a shame, the blame lies entirely with your parents for not speaking to you in Punjabi. Punjabi is wtritten in Gurmukhi & Shahmukhi, if you can read Urdu you will be able to read Shahmukhi, a little effort to learn Gurmukhi will open up so much more Punjabi literature for you, it is quite easy to learn. For more information on Punjabi visit,

www.apnaorg.com

Why Punjabi is only in the air in the Punjabi countryside. It is not on paper. It is not on road signs. Why it is language of only the poor. We speak to our farm worker, driver, cook in Punjabi. The poor try to speak a vulgarized Urdu trying to show that they are more cultured. We try to break into English to show that we are more educated. Why Punjabi is at the lowest rung of status.

Punjabi is in the countryside, but also in our cities too, in our family in Lahore we only speak Punjabi in the house, to each other and the servants, Urdu will only be spoken to non Punjabi ppl. But Punjabi is the primary language for all my family in Lahore, who take great pride in speaking their `lhauri` Punjabi. My mama ji has outlawed Urdu in his house, and never do his children speak to him Urdu, if they ever did, he would very angry and a scolding would be coming their way.

Their are many affluent Punjabi ppl who speak their Ma Boli with great pride. You can see PUnjabi street signs in Southall, Hounslow, Surrey (Vancouver) etc. There are ppl in Pak with inferiority complex, however the tide is turning and Punjabi in Punjab is making a come back.

NHK,

I would like to get examples/references from Kabir - where he criticizes the pandit ?
or for that matter any profession or officer etc.
No, I am not trying to corner you - but, I am asking this because I want to know
and understand more about Kabir.

The communists in India have done a great job setting up many of the bhakti-sants
as some kind of ``social revolutionaries`` etc - which is a bunch of crap. If you read
most of the original writings - there is no basis for such ``revolution`` or class-warfare
ideas.

Unfortunately, many people are misled by such left-wing trash.

in response to post #2.

panch is five in persian as well. it probably is not pronounced the same way we pronounce it, but it is five.

for the person who wanted nazar sahib to post amrita pritam`s ``aj aakhan waris shah nu``, it is readily locatable on google.com. that is where i found it:

aaj aakhaN waris shah nuuN

aaj aakhaN waris shah nuuN, kitoN kabraaN vichchoN bol,
te aaj kitab-e ishq daa koii aglaa varkaa phol

ik roii sii dhii punjaab dii, tuuN likh likh maare vaen,
aaj lakhaaN dhiiaaN rondiaa, tainuN waris shah nuN kahen

uTh dardmandaaN diaa dardiaa, uth takk apnaa punjaab
aaj bele lashaaN bichhiaaN te lahu dii bharii chenab

kise ne panjaN paniaN vichch dittii zahar ralaa
te unhaaN paniiaaN dharat nuuN dittaa paanii laa

is zarkhez zamiin de luun luun phuttia zaher
gitth gitth charhiaaN laaliaN fuuT fuuT charhiaa kaher

veh valliissii vha pher van van vaggii jaa,
ohne har ik baaNs di vanjhalii ditti naag banaa

pehlaa dang madaariaN, mantar gaye guaach,
dooje dang di lagg gayii, jane khane nuN laag

aagaaN kiile lok muNh, bus phir dang hi dang,
palo palii punjaab de, neele pae gaye ang.

gale`oN tutt`e giit phir trakaleon tuttii tand,
trinjanoN tuttiaaN saheliaaN, chaRakhRre ghuukar band

sane sej de beriaaN, luddaN dittiaaN rohr,
sane daliaan peengh aj, piplaaN dittii toR

jitthe vajdii sii phuuk pyaar dii, ve oh vanjhalii gayii guaach
raanjhe de sab viir aaj, bhul gaye usadii jaach

dhartii te lahuu varsiyaa, kabraaN paiaaN chon,
preet diaaN shaahzaadiaaN, aaj vichch mazaaraaN ron

aaj sabh `Qaido` ban gaye, husn ishq de chor
aaj kitthoN liaaiye labbh ke waris shah ik hor

aaj aakhaN waris shah nuuN, kitoN kabraan vichchoN bol,
te aaj kitaab-e ishq daa, koii aglaa varkaa phol

~amrita pritam

NHK/18, right now, Punjabi civilisation is being over-layered on rivers all across the world, which is just as good. As for being rapped about an article, not too worry, it is part of the deal. Please keep writing with the breadth of vision that only a regular traveller can achieve.

This complete TNT and Fauj thing is in my opinion a bit of cleansing up that is going on.

Veeresh # 15

There is a romance to the rivers. Cities and civilizations have been built on their banks.

I did not expect this much of Rap on this article - maybe it should have come after TNT & Fauj.

NHK

Malik # 99

I can not recollect specifically Dilbagh Singh. I have read lots of writings on Punjabi language, Bhakti and Sufism and `History of Sikhs`. And found a theme evolving. I also wanted to make a brief mention of few poets/sufis in just one or two lines with their important verses. So if I have picked up a phrase or two from somebody, it is possible.

But I have never plagiarized any ideas and thoughts and never will. It is disgusting for me. I also plagiarize Shakespear`s phrases.

NHk

Satyamvada # 5

About the Pundit & Mulla bit

Kabir and Guru Nanak and most Pinjabi Sufi poets spoke against their tyranny in their time.

I will add priest also.

NHK

There are two more Punjabi Rivers which the author has neglected to mention. One is, ofcourse, the Thames in London and the other is the Fraser River near Vancouver BC.

Very soon Punjab will also take over the English Channel and The Straits of Juan de Fuca.

There is no stopping us. The Brits tried by dividing us and then making us argue about non-Punjabis sent to rule us like Jinnah and Nehru, but with the help of bhangra and Punjabi music, we have got over that.

The twin cities of Lahore and Amritsar will regain their lost glory and rule Hounslow again. Hell`s Gate will resound to the beat of sufi music played on Harley Davidson and Royal Enfield.

Here`s to Kesar da Dhaba and Lahore Kadahi.

Various

This outpouring from me is result of a guilt complex and an emptiness in stomach to find more about Punjabi language. And its ethos. I do not speak Punjabi at Home. I have never read Punjabi and its literature. My parents spoke Punjabi. Bulleh Shah only comes after 11 PM after a few drinks - Mandar Dha Dey, Masjid Da Deh. Why?

Why Punjabi is only in the air in the Punjabi countryside. It is not on paper. It is not on road signs. Why it is language of only the poor. We speak to our farm worker, driver, cook in Punjabi. The poor try to speak a vulgarized Urdu trying to show that they are more cultured. We try to break into English to show that we are more educated. Why Punjabi is at the lowest rung of status.

We are already mutilingual - English, Urdu, Hindi - we can speak Sareiki, read Persian & Arabic. Why needlessly jettison the mother tongue? Is it only for seminars and cultural shows?

As we have seen, it is the language of the masses and it produced poets/sufis whose literature is mainly against the oppression of the ruler and the clergy. Something which is as relevant today as hundreds years back.

I do not create facts. I only create the spin. For facts on Punjab, please verify from ``History of Sikhs`` by Khushwant Sing - regarded as an authetic works.

Similarly, there is enough work on Bhakti & Sufi movements - I found a great similarity in their approach.

I admire all those who speak their mother tongue and are linked up with its literature.

NHK

This article is pathetic, virtually bereft of merit.

malik99:10
haaa haaaa haaa and Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, HaaaaaaaaaaaaH.

The `tail` of five rivers is now neatly tucked where the sun never shines. `` O ghairat aani jaani shai vay, bunday nooN dhit honaa chaeeda aye``

Shoild CHOWK-STAFF would now delete the ``article``? Probably not. You see he hates Islam & muslims. That, in CHOWK wisdom, is a sure sign of being `modern` `emancipated` `evolved` and `reformed`.

No wonder they are terrified of mullahs [good word--use it often]