The Tale of Five Rivers

There are at least 4 major and 4 minor trends catching up in Punjab. Some of them tough contradictory to each other are yet complemetary to the revival of Punjabi language/ The four major ones are: 1) Interest in Sufism and Sufi poetry for centrists and right of center: 2) Promotion of Panjabi language and related issues by left-of-center groups like World Punjabi Conference; 3) Coming to age of Punjabi music and in many respect winning the hearts of younger generation; 4) a recoil reaction to spread of Islamic fundamentalism as well as a late reaction to the carnage of partition which is now viewed regrefully.

The four minor trends are: 1) Large diaspora influencing the mindset back home. The liberal environment abroad has given chance to think independent of Pakistan and Islam and identification with Punjabi identity has social benefits in large Punjabi communities in Britian, USA and Canada; 2) Thaw in India-Pakistan relations; 3) Better means and more freedom to express, such as electronic media; 4) Constantly bombaring in the media about every other ethnic type of nationalism except Punjabi. Finally some have stated to look inward out of ego.

Most of these trends can not be reversed easily by the government of Pakistan even if they wish. As you can see all of the factors, major and minor are anthema to Islamic fundamentalism. Sufism, Punjabi music and left-of-center intelligentia are able to propagate not only easily but able to rope in both chief ministers of Punjabs to the last WPC meeting in Lahore.

Musharraf himself is sailing in Safeena-e-Jat these days. He is totally dependent on Jats in Punjab for governance. You must understand Jats mentality here. For a beginer, they choose to be chief minister of Punjab than prime minister of Pakistan because they consider it more important. Through long history, they have contributed to Punjabi culture, though mostly from Sikh Jats. They have not produced any famous Urdu literary figures, nor did they produce any major religious Islamic scholar or famous mullah. Does this say anything which could be taken as less interested in Islamic fundamentalism? They are not against Islam but not interested in losing political power and handing it to Islamists, mullahs and findamentalists. Name any Jat name of significant political power in JI, JUI, SSP, JUP, LT, HeM etc? Here is the largest single tribal identity of Pakistan but not one name in these groups. Sure, they are feudal and dont have much history of peomoting Punjabiat than themselves but Punjabi language enhances their stature, so they are likely to back it or accept it.

Punjabiat or promotion of Punjabi language by its nature is regional - among Punjabis only. That is in contrast with Muslim unity and Ummah concept right from get go. The religious literature in Punjabi is not available even for the beginers in madrassah system. Mullahs are not quick to change and any imposition of Punjabi in the state and linked with zakat funds distribution will bar most of the madrassahs from getting any money from Zakat fund. Punjabi will hurt madrassah system just like Sindhi has. That is why only few madrassahs exists in interior Sindh.

The easiest way to write books in Punjabi right now are translaing books from gurmukhi script to Roman or Arabic script. That is what has started to happen and this is defintely a trend against Islamic fundamentalism. Only Islamic stuff of late in Punjabi is actually quranic translation by Shareef Kunjahi which is availabe for readers at www.apnaorg.com. If there is less books written in Punjabi, then there are even lesser books on Islam in Punjabi. Those who wish to read would not find much to read about Islam in Punjabi compared to Sufis, poetry and fiction. All knowledge of Islam in Punjab comes from books written in Urdu, Persian or Arabic.

Rising literacy level is like rising tide which would lift all boats. Linking rise in literacy level with the decline or demise of the language of more than 100 million people was most bizzare statement I have read in a while. Just take chowk where most people are more than average literate. How many people have openly declared to denounce and abandon Punjabi language for good against Punjabis who have freely chosen to write Punjabi in Roman alphbets like English with never having ever written in Arabic lexicon? Right now, on chowk writing Punjabi in Roman lexicon is almost equal to writing Roman Urdu. Punjabis, growing up in Karachi for all thier upbringing are even happily writing in Punjabi whenever they feel like it. Literate ladies with education from Kinnaird, with MDs and with Ph.Ds are not shying away from expressing in Punjabi writing. It is basically high school level literete who prefer to speak Urdu only because that is the only thing which distinguishes them from illiterate masses. As they move beyond high school, English becomes more important in professional and vocational education leaving Urdu-Punjabi distinction behind. More educated is actually more open to speak and write in the language of choice because medium of expression no longer makes the difference between him/ her and the rest. Most of the promoters of Urdu language are right now well-educated professionals and literati. Similarly the most ardent supporters of Sindhi language are most educated Sindhis and not some illiterate haris or villagers.Education and literacy brings awareness as well as confidence, both of which can not go against cultural heritage for no obvious reason.

Actually more than writing, latest research suggests that survival of a culture (language is biggest part of culture) depends on women of that ethnic group. Women are the embodiment of a culture and they are responsible to pass it on to next generation. If Punjabi women are speaking and writing in Punjabi, number of books published is less important. Anyway, people spend most of their time talking than reading. What are Punjabi women gonna do if they dump Punjabi for Urdu? What would be marriages like where women sing and dance for hours or couple of days and have so much folk poetry to sing that no song could be repeated for singing for 2 days. You cant substitute such a vast reservoir of entertainment on one of happiest occasion for two songs, ``sarota kahan bhool aaye`` and ``meri bannu ke abba ka bara bara bangla``. What has sarota got to do anyway in Punjabi culture? Do you think men will stop dancing to the beats of drum after reaping the rabeeh crop (Vasakhi) and instead start listening to ghazals by Mehdi Hasan and Munni Begum once literacy level goes up? Ghazal has never been associated with mass celebrations even in Urdu culture.

Urdu language is an Urban language and detached from the land. It is more attached with human spirit, deep thinking and romance. Basically languages develop over time and in-line with conditions and environment. Even accents develop for same reasons and not due to the work of some writers, seers or leaders. If a place has too many camels, camel and related words would be in abundance. Urdu and Punjabi will not develop 20 different words for panda because it is not native. Punjabi has developed words for things commonly used in Punjab, the seasons, the land, rivers, rainfalls etc but not about tundra, steppes and rhinos etc. Urdu also has developed words which were commonly used by people who spoke Urdu. Since Urdu did not develop in rural villages, it lacks expressing rythms of rural life.

After going all through it, I am still doubtful that Romair would be convinced that promotion of Punjabi language is an antidote to Islamic fundamentalism in Punjab. What else can I say about Urdu`s linkage to Islam than TNT, making it national language of Pakistan and before than Punjabi Muslims adopting it more than Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs, Urdu speaking Indian Muslims voting for Muslim league on the basis of TNT more so than Muslims belonging to rest of ethnic groups of todays India, Urdu speaking Indian Muslims even today are more Islamic than say Keralite Muslims in expressing resentments and disagreements with Hindus, Bangladeshis not showing the kind of fundamentalsit tendencies Pakistanis are showing, most of the Syeds and other individuals with Arabic ancestry are found among Urdu speaking.....need I give more examples? Anyway, thanks to all who read my previous post and posted comments.

click From Jinnah`s collection in his own handwriting
Money lost--nothing lost.
courage lost--someting lost.
honour lost--most lost.
soul lost--all lost.

---

Dutch Proverb.

Did someone lose anything? Can it even be retrieved? Does CHOWK staff has it?

It is never too late.

satyamvada #21
Kabir has criticised priests mullahs and caste systems,and you can find reference in the link given by pmishra2.Though his major and most beautiful work is as a nirgun bhakt poet of bhakti kaal, he was a heretic and spoke against ritualism in both Hinduism and Islam. What is the link with communism?
As of Indian spiritual tradition, Kabir was a nirgun panthi,stating that God is formless and did not believe in idol worship.That sort of belief is part of Indian spirtitual tradition and Hinduism,but IMO,and whatever limited understanding I have of Kabir, he was a heretic here as well.

Rizwan#21: Guru Nanak went to Baghdad. True. He might have gone to Mecca also as some references tell but Mecca was open to all until few hundreds years ago when only Muslims could enter now. During his stay in Bagdad, he had discourses with local sufis and faqirs. On his departure he was presented a chola with qoranic verses on it. He took the chola in the spirit of interfaith friendship. No different than a Sikh giving a book or holy script to a visiting Muslim friend. That does not convert him to Sikhism.

This chola controversy is typical of Mullah mindset. In Mullah mind a non-muslim is not supposed to take a Islamic gift from a Muslim...why? because a typical mullah minded person won`t take a non-Islamic gift from a non-muslim. For him it is black and white with no shade of gray...if one accepts an Islamic gift from mullah, he must be praising Islam and falling on his knees to convert. hence Nanak going to baghdad and Mecca, talking to Sufi saints and accepting chola with Qoranic text on it is a proof that nanak was kneeling before the mullahs in appreciation to be converted. Typical bullcrap.

ponnyinselvan #44 The ``danger`` is not from Hindi,it is from English.Hindi itself is not in a very good state. I dont think any culture,not even tamil, can afford to say no to English right now.IMO the three language formula does make sense,though it should be implemented on North Indian Hindi speaking belt as well.The assimilation should not be one-sided. This is the correct way to ensure nationalism,not by pushing a language down the throat of someone. As for the domination of English,I would think it is too late to do anything about it.
Talking about people from different states talking Hindi,for one it tends to be the language of choice in cross cultural situations,because Hindi is an easier language to learn for most Indians as compared to English. But it still is the exception rather than the rule to prefer Hindi above their mother tongue within families.Besides,there is a thriving literature and entertainment industry in every vernacular language and they are taught in schools as well.
So there is no danger of any of them dying,at least not any time soon.

re:#44 by ponniyinselvan
I share your sentiments. I too am a Tamilian who grew up in Delhi (so speaking Hindi was never a problem for me!) and now live in USA. I learnt Tamil because my parents had the good sense to send me to a Tamil medium school. For this, i am eternally greatful to them. If one has not learnt one`s mother tongue well, one has not lived. That`s how i see it.

Having lived in the north, i have seen many second and third generation Tamilians grow up and blend into the ``north indian`` culture without any problems. I see bengalis, Gujaratis, Punjabees all conversing with each other in Hindi even in US (as u also rightly observed). One thing that is lacking is their understanding of ``what lies south of the Vindhyas``.
Most North Indians are woefully ignorant of the South and its culture. Today, when North Indian culture is fast blending into Bollywood culture, which in turn is a poor copy of Hollywood, a time will come when Indian culture will become synonymous with South Indian culture.
When i see a Tamil movie, i see people dressed up in traditional dresses. Most of them speak Tamil while most Bollywood actors/actresses speak a concoction of Hindi and English, which sounds very funny.
Having said this, i will say that that while i agree Tamil is old enough to be called Classical, the way it is spoken today leaves much to be desired. Tamils do not speak their own language well. I was doing my PG studies in Madras for 3 years and learnt the finer nuances of that language. What i found disturbing was Tamil was NOT spoken the way it is written. There is a lot of distortions that need to be discarded. It should be made to sound better. Remember how Shivaji Ganeshan spoke Tamil. Few speak that way now-a-days.
If u meet Northies that are ignorant about Tamil, u need to educate them. Their ignorance of South is just unbelievable!
Finally, i will end by saying that a language is just a means of communication. Let us not give it more life by making it a political or religious tool. For me, it does not matter how u say it whether in Tamil, Urdu, Sanskrit or English, u should say it well and that is all that matters.
Sridhar

re: Why languages become extinct; sanskrit: a case in point
This website tells about major laungages spoken today, majority being in Asia
http://www.ethnologue.com/ethno_docs/distribution.asp
And, every day some language is becoming extinct:
http://www.ethnologue.com/nearly_extinct.asp
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0202/130.html

Most of the languages used pre-10th century are extinct. Many have evolved into the modern day languages. Some common ones you see are Pali, Ardha-Magadhi, Peisachi etc that are no longer in use.
http://www.censusindia.net/cendat/language/language_data.html
Some other website claims that out of 418 languages in India 407 are extant and 11 are extinct.
Is sanskrit an extiinct or dead language then? Not per the census of India. Last heard, about 50000 people are known to speak that language! It still is taught in academic institutions. One person i know is trying to revive the language:
www.sanskritbharati.com

Sankrit was the literay lanugage for many centuries. It had the same status as English has in today`s world. Educated people learnt that language. North and South Indian could talk to each other only thr` sanskrit (today, English has taken that place).
Why did sanksrit lose its status?
The following article tries to answer that question:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2173400.stm
Sridhar

re:#2 by Gandiv

``The word ``Punjab`` can be broken into ``Panch`` + ``Aab``. ``Panch`` means five in Sanskrit, ``Aab`` means water in ``Persian``, so it seems to be confluence of two cultures. ``
The word ``ab`` may have been derived from the sanskrit word ``abdhi`` which means ``sea or ocean``. So huge was the confluence of Indus and the 5 rivers that the early settlers deemed it a sea or an ocean.
Sridhar

Why had Baba Nanik Quran Written all over his Chola(Garb)? it is called ``Chola Nanik Sahib``

If Mr. Nazir Khan knows about this, please share.

Thanks.

ponnyinsilvan #44 Interesting and informative post.

HP #47

On those verses:
Chahar chowdry pewan bethe (Four chowdry started smoking or sat down to smoke)
Moochan Jal gain Sari (burnt their mustache)
Bara sahib kaa bangle jal gaya
Maal luta sarkari.

Clearly urdu. panjabi would be something like:

chaar chowdry maran sootay
tay saar dittiaN muchhaN
wadhay baoo di kothhi sar gai
maal lutya sarkari

It makes as much sense in panjabi as in urdu (i.e. zilch). ;-)

Romair: I have only one word to say concerning Sind: Peccavi!!

HP #47: ``Sindhi won a huge battle against Urdu domination in the 70s and since then Islamic parties have lost considerable influence in Sindh. How that is related would be tough to prove but I guess the Muslim fundamentalist especially the Jamaat Islami kind are heavily tied with Urdu language in Pakistan.``

One would expect a better analysis from a person of your knowledge. Jamaat-e-Islami`s center was urban Sindh. They dominated Karachi politics. It was only when, ``Urdu speaking`` MQM arrived on the scene, in 1985 that the maulvis lost, outright, in Karachi.

Even now the biggest opponent of MMA in Sind is MQM. Not Sindhi speaking PPP. MQM and MMA hate each other and are fighting for the same turf. MQM is 100% Urdu speaking, while MMA speaks all kinds of languages (including Punjabi). So, in this case, Urdu got rid of a religious party.

Rural Sind is in the control of feudals. Feudals are currently secular, because it makes political sense for them to be so, at the moment. Not because of any ideological reason. Hence rural Sind does not have religious parties. That has nothing to do with Sindhi or Urdu. If tomorrow feudals become religious in politics, that area will have the same feudals, under a religious flag, winning elections.

All national parties have to adapt Urdu as a national language. Which is why JI has adapted it. PPP and PML also have Urdu as their language. If they started pushing Punjabi or Sindhi, as official party languages, they would lose out in all other provinces.

However the question here is regarding religious extremism. JI is a religious party. Ignorant and overly conservative, according to many. But the average Pakistani (outside the few on Chowk) does not consider them extremists. The extremist parties fall into the category of Sapah-e-Sahaba etc. Most of those originated in the hearland of Punjab, with overwhelming followers who communicate in Punjabi. They currently write their pamphlets in Urdu, because that is the written language of communication. If that medium was changed to Punjabi, they would simply rewrite their pamphlets in Punjabi, which would probably be easier for their followers to understand.

I suppose religious extremism would die down for the brief time, it would take them to adjust their printing presses from Urdu font to Punjabi font....But that is about it.

In fact, one could make a pretty good argument that the most secular party in Pakistan is the Urdu speaking MQM.......It is the only party that has taken on maulvis head-first, without comprise. All other parties, including Punjabi dominated PML, regularly give-in to maulvis.

On the whole, religious extremism, and extremism of any kind, is linguistically agnostic......

Sameer, to a certain extent, is right in claiming that perhaps the rise of Punjabi would set Islamic fundamentalism back somewhat. Sindhi won a huge battle against Urdu domination in the 70s and since then Islamic parties have lost considerable influence in Sindh. How that is related would be tough to prove but I guess the Muslim fundamentalist especially the Jamaat Islami kind are heavily tied with Urdu language in Pakistan. Sindhi who fought for Sindhi Language correctly understood that their major opposition came from the rightist who were insisting on making Urdu the only language of Pakistan.
In case of Punjabi language, I think whatever effort is coming is too little and too late. Urdu domination in Punjab started before the partition and Urdu now has taken firm hold in Punjab.
I think similar situation exists for Urdu in India. Urdu script is dyeing there but spoken Urdu has pretty much made a reincarnation in the guise of Hindi. I listen to people from Delhi and around and watch Indian movies and I can very well see that they speak better Urdu than many Urdu speaking in Karachi can.
Languages die and that is the reality.

Btw, which Language is this?

Chahar chowdry pewan bethe (Four chowdry started smoking or sat down to smoke)
Moochan Jal gain Sari (burnt their mustache)
Bara sahib kaa bangle jal gaya
Maal luta sarkari.

#44 by ponniyinselvan
Excellent post. I did not know much about Tamil myself. Will try to find out more now. Thanks.

Dionysus #40: “Your post deserves a more thorough response,”

Kindly do provide a more thorough response, rather than just making a statement.

“In West Punjab there is a direct and strong correlation between the strength of Urdu (and hence the weakness of Punjabi) and Islamic radicalism. The revival of Punjabiat and death of Urdu is the most potent antidote to Islamic fanaticism in West Punjab.”

I really hope you are not serious. The mullah, and anyone else, provides sermons in all languages. Specifically in languages he can understand and in languages his audience can understand. It has nothing to do with either Urdu nor English, West Punjab or East Punjab, North NWFP or South NWFP. I have heard more than my share of sermons in Punjabi (and in Urdu) to know this to be true. Mullahism is linguistly agnostic. It is as ignorant in Arabic as in Punjabi and Urdu, and Pushto and Farsi. It appeals mostly to those on the lower end of the economic scale. Most of whom speak the local languages. At least, being educated in Urdu, will provide some alternative books etc. to such a group. Being educated in Punjabi will provide, even fewer alternatives.

For the sake of argument, even if we assume that every mullah, currently, gives his sermons in Urdu (even though he speaks Punjabi at home), will he automatically stop giving his sermons if the Punjabi is revived? What will stop him from converting his sermons to Punjabi? Is there something inherently built into the grammar of Punjabi, which makes it less religiously extremist? Are Punjabi speakers, inherently, less religiously extremist because they speak Punjabi? If that is the case why is the center of sectarianism in Pakistan in the heart of Punjab and in the hometown of Heer?

It makes no sense to pointlessly attach religious extremism to everything just to justify a point……..Extremists of any kind, from any country, are not dependent on languages.

ponniyinselvan

I agree with you on the virtues of Tamil language. We also agree on the critical importance of educating children in their mother tongue - real mother tongue, not an imposed alien language being touted as mother tongue.

But that aside, are you suggesting that Tamil has a similar status in India as does Punjabi in Pakistan? :)

``May be it is about time the West Punjabis got their coming generations introduced to the heritage left behind by the Saen Babas of rivers. And got them reconnected to the soil of their ancestors. A tree with week roots always has a stunted growth…"

NazarHayatKhan is a man with his heart at the right place. He is genuinely interested in understanding cultures. If someone else had written this article, it would have sounded chauvinistic.

``I admire all those who speak their mother tongue and are linked up with its literature,`` says NHK. Speaking one`s mother tongue and being linked up with its literature comes with a heavy price tag these days. Today, the world is in the process of celebrating homogenisation: on the basis of national, religious and political faiths. Anyone standing up against this trend is considered an undesirable element, dealt with according to the ideology involved. To be a non-conformist needs a lot of energy and courage.

Such a defiant people do exist today in our part of the world. Sometime ago, NHK wrote about South India. There we can find a unique experience in our subcontinent.

Tamil is spoken by about 8 crore people worldwide. It is the official language of Tamil Nadu, hosting a 60 million population. It is a national language in India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia and Singapore. It has mothered a unique civilisation that is still living uncorrupted. Its literature dates back to several centuries BC. The Tamils have rejected the imposition of Hindi as the third language in their home state. For this defiance, they are paying a heavy price. At best, they are called as chauvinists, and at worst, anti-nationals. Even when they are as nationalist as anyone else and the present First Citizen of India, Abdul Kalam, is a Tamil. The vitriol that is to follow this message of mine will speak volumes of the difficulty they have to face.

Tamil is the only living classical language in the world. It is taught in international centres of academic excellence like University of Berkeley in California, Yale University, Russian and German universities etc as a classical language. It is one of the only two classical languages of India, the other being Sanskrit. Its classical status was recently accepted by the central government... not by some divine wisdom, but by political compulsion.

I was suprised to find that many of my Pakistani friends were ignorant of the linguistic diversity of India. They were surprised that Hindi films have no following in Tamil Nadu. And that Tamil movies and music are regularly plagiarised in Mumbai (and vice versa). One gentleman even asked me if Tamil had a script!! That when scholars across the world postulate that the Indus script is certainly Dravidian and that Tamil is the purest living descendant of it; That when Tamil was the first ancient language in the world to give birth to secular and subaltern literature even as the contemporary languages like Sanskrit, Avestan and Hebrew were churning out religious hymns.

Such an understandable ignorance on the part of the Pakistanis pales out to insignificance when compared to their Indian counterparts. One Delhiite I met was aghast when he learnt of the existence of a person from India not knowing Hindi. He was overwhelmed by such an audacity, and asked me why I dont know my mother tongue. When I brought unto his benevolent notice that I did not have the previlege of having Hindi as my mother tongue, he solemnly and authoritatively declared that Hindi was atleast my step-mother tongue and that people not knowing it should have no place in India. For him and many others, Hindi was synonymous with nationalism. And India.

I know many Maharashtrians, Gujarathis, Punjabis, of late Kannadigas, and even Bengalis who speak only in Hindi. They speak in Hindi with friends and family, and in English at work and social gatherings. Their mother tongue is usually reserved for cooks, dhobis, drivers....... generally, the economically downtrodden. Their children know none of their mother tongue. In 25-50 years, I predict India would largely be Hindi-speaking. Tamil Nadu would be the sole survivor.

I guess that the defiance and pride of Tamils has a lesson for the rest of linguistic groups in Indo Pak which are being swept away in the drive of homogenisation under the garb of nationalism in India and religion in Pakistan. Punjabis in India are in no better position than their Pakistani counterparts. Their language has got mired in a religion as well.

However, Punjabi has some extra difficulties in Pakistan. Any renaissance and assertion will be seen as an encroachment on other linguistic units due the dominance of Punjabis in the Pakistani politics. It will also clash with the religious values of Urdu. It will have to be a very careful and non-chauvinistic movement. To swim against the flood needs courage and energy. I know Punjabis have enough courage. But do they have a sustainable energy like the Tamils? If they have, that will certainly benefit the linguistic diversity and civilisational strength of our part of the world.