The Tale of Five Rivers

Pathetic historical perception., otherwise run of the mill.

First, the word ``Sapta Sindhva`` in Persian is originally ``Sapta Sindhu`` in Sanskrit, so it was not that the Persian invented the term, they just reused what was already in vogue in India.

Second, ``People lived in small mud built hamlets ruled by local chieftains``.
It was not just that was used to build homes, in fact, if you look at Harppan excavations, bricks were used, and well-planned streets and sewage systems were employed.

Third, ``The life revolved around simple customs and old superstitions``.
Well customs are never simple or complex, its the message contained within that. And the vedantic customs have been very profound, far from ``Simple``. Anything old can be renamed as ``Old superstitions`` if you don`t believe in it. There is very short and fine boundary between faith and superstition, when science is kicked out from faith, superstition steps in, and you can`t be sure when exactly this occured in Punjabi context, or if ever occured.

The sequence of invasions have missed out the original migration of the Sindhu population from east to west, which clearly can be seen in the language connection.

The word ``Punjab`` can be broken into ``Panch`` + ``Aab``. ``Panch`` means five in Sanskrit, ``Aab`` means water in ``Persian``, so it seems to be confluence of two cultures.

If anybody knows persian, can you please expalin if ``Panch`` means anything there?

Punjab is by no means the only land in Indian penninsula that has lush green forrest. Across Rajasthan there is eatern Ganga plain and starting from Vindhya in the south you can trace forrest till Nilgiris in the south.

``mostly settled down injecting Persian, Greek, Afghan, Turk, Arab and Mongol blood in the local blood line. The did improve the local genetic quality...``
This is hilarious, to say that Punjabis have better genes(really?) due to the invaders.

The complexion of Punjabis, is not due to the genes but due to the weather. Nepali sherpas and Assamese also have similar complexion and if you go further north, you will find more fair complexion than that of Punjabis.

The height can be attributed to terrain. I am sure Afghans are taller than Punjabis and Gorghas in east, Coorgis in South India are not less tall than Punjabis.

Punjabis really have nothing that shows absolutely ``better genes`` than the rest.

yes its time ....

things should be Put in their proper prespective......


Panjabis sacrificed their Pubjabi for URDU ( nearly all major urdu poets like

Faiz , Iqbal, qasmi, faraz ... etc etc... are Pubjabis )....

Fro what......!!!

The effective decimation of Punjabi language and emotional de-Punjabization of Punjabi children themselves is among the greatest cultural events of the twentieth century.

It`s also the ONLY event of its kind where an immigrant minority arrived at a place and within a few short decades removed the intellectual roots of the language and the culture of the majority while still being a minority!

The methods and the process used to achieve this end hold the key to understanding what happened in this part of the world for the last 50 years.

Gandiv # 2

There is absolute no reference or comparison with any other place or area. Just localized something about Punjab. Other areas may also have lush green forests. And equally good genes. The mud villages still exist.

No superiority is intended in any form. Just the historical context.

NHK

Nazar Khan Saab,
Is it possible for you to give me the whole poem of Amrtia Pritam ``AJ Akhan Waris Shah noo, Kite kabran wicho bol, Te Kitabe ishak da koi, Aglaa varka khol.......’’ .
Thanks

punjab - pancha + aap ( water in Sanskrit )
Also, Sapta-Saindhava - means one/that which hails from the Sapta Sindhu

In Persian/Avestan Sapta-Sindhu is referred to as Hapta Hindu

NHK - falls into the same old equivalency game trying to equate mullah with pandit -
in order to appear ``fair`` without any concern for facts.
NHK - you should be more intellectually honest and understand the ideologies.

I avoid criticizing Indians on this site because, rightly or wrongly, I see this as a primarily Pakistani site. A place where some intelligent Pakistanis come to discuss issues, and where we Indians, sharing almost everything with them, are naturally drawn in.

But the Indians who criticize NHK for playing an `equivalency game` get him as wrong as do the Pakistanis who take him for a Punjabi `supremacist.` With due regard, in this case, you guys behave like idiots.

The Mughal Emperor Akbar`s Deen-e-Ilahi, which was the ``enlightened moderation`` (pun intended) of that time, damaged various religions that were peacfully coexisting at that time. The question whether the king has the constitutional right to wear uniform or not pleague us even today. As a result what we have today is the aadha teetar aadha batair of sikhism and present day sufism which treads right onto the boundries of Kufr and Shirk. I don`t understand. Why can`t the so called sufis be content on smoking pot only and why they have to drag religion into it. Live and let live for God`s sakes.

Ralph: I agree with post #7. If NHK is a Mullah apologist, then I am a bloody martian.

Nazar Sahib - This article seems to be identical to an article authored by Durlabh Singh posted on this site:

http://poetry.allinfo-about.com/features/punjabi.html

For example: regarding Bhai Vir Singh, you write:

[Bhai Vir Singh (1872-1957): Known as father of modern Punjabi literature, he single handed brought a renaissance of Punjabi poetry. In his poem lagian Niban, a girl complains about her insensitive lover:]

And this is how it is written by the original author:

[Bhai Vir Singh – (1872-1957) The father of modern Punjabi literature, he single handed brought a renaissance of Punjabi poetry. He was the first to use blank verse form in poetry and was the author of numerous novels, plays and poetry collections. He was a pioneer in starting the first Punjabi daily newspaper, the winner of many literary awards and a grand personality. He gave Punjabi verse a sophistication and new expression. In his poem lagian Niban, a girl complains about her insensitive lover:]

Please note that the word ``handed`` is grammatically incorrect in both your and his version.

Here is how you describe waris shah:

``Waris Shah (1736): His Heer Ranja is a romance of star-crossed lovers who were doomed to a tragic end. This ballad of two lovers is an all time true Punjabi classic of a great beauty and pathos. ``

and here is how the original author describes waris shah:

``In the tradition of Punjabi Quisa, the arrival of Waris Shah was an epoch making event. His Heer Ranja is a romance of star-crossed lovers who are doomed to a tragic end, something akin to Shakespeare`s Romeo and Juliet. This ballad-like form consists of 600 stanzas and is full of a true classical dimension of beauty and pathos.``

In short, I am wondering who plagiarized who. If Dilrabh Singh is the original author, then you should have attributed proper credits to him. If you are the original author, then he should have done that.

Please shed some light on this. Thanks

I appreciate your reply.
Other than the historical context, the article is well-written.
It`s never late or impossible to preserve something that one feels valuable.
I barely understand Punjabi, but sure it must have the fervor that I can imagine.
Thanks.

malik99:10
haaa haaaa haaa and Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, HaaaaaaaaaaaaH.

The `tail` of five rivers is now neatly tucked where the sun never shines. `` O ghairat aani jaani shai vay, bunday nooN dhit honaa chaeeda aye``

Shoild CHOWK-STAFF would now delete the ``article``? Probably not. You see he hates Islam & muslims. That, in CHOWK wisdom, is a sure sign of being `modern` `emancipated` `evolved` and `reformed`.

No wonder they are terrified of mullahs [good word--use it often]

This article is pathetic, virtually bereft of merit.

Various

This outpouring from me is result of a guilt complex and an emptiness in stomach to find more about Punjabi language. And its ethos. I do not speak Punjabi at Home. I have never read Punjabi and its literature. My parents spoke Punjabi. Bulleh Shah only comes after 11 PM after a few drinks - Mandar Dha Dey, Masjid Da Deh. Why?

Why Punjabi is only in the air in the Punjabi countryside. It is not on paper. It is not on road signs. Why it is language of only the poor. We speak to our farm worker, driver, cook in Punjabi. The poor try to speak a vulgarized Urdu trying to show that they are more cultured. We try to break into English to show that we are more educated. Why Punjabi is at the lowest rung of status.

We are already mutilingual - English, Urdu, Hindi - we can speak Sareiki, read Persian & Arabic. Why needlessly jettison the mother tongue? Is it only for seminars and cultural shows?

As we have seen, it is the language of the masses and it produced poets/sufis whose literature is mainly against the oppression of the ruler and the clergy. Something which is as relevant today as hundreds years back.

I do not create facts. I only create the spin. For facts on Punjab, please verify from ``History of Sikhs`` by Khushwant Sing - regarded as an authetic works.

Similarly, there is enough work on Bhakti & Sufi movements - I found a great similarity in their approach.

I admire all those who speak their mother tongue and are linked up with its literature.

NHK

There are two more Punjabi Rivers which the author has neglected to mention. One is, ofcourse, the Thames in London and the other is the Fraser River near Vancouver BC.

Very soon Punjab will also take over the English Channel and The Straits of Juan de Fuca.

There is no stopping us. The Brits tried by dividing us and then making us argue about non-Punjabis sent to rule us like Jinnah and Nehru, but with the help of bhangra and Punjabi music, we have got over that.

The twin cities of Lahore and Amritsar will regain their lost glory and rule Hounslow again. Hell`s Gate will resound to the beat of sufi music played on Harley Davidson and Royal Enfield.

Here`s to Kesar da Dhaba and Lahore Kadahi.

Satyamvada # 5

About the Pundit & Mulla bit

Kabir and Guru Nanak and most Pinjabi Sufi poets spoke against their tyranny in their time.

I will add priest also.

NHK