The Tale of Five Rivers

128#tahmed32

tahmed Norman invasion of England was in 1066, because of this French was the official language for 250 years, that’s reason we have 25% of English words are French in origin, mostly in government and law.

In Ireland Irish is first official language hardly anyone bothers to learn it, situation is similar in Scotland even though it’s separate country with it’s own language hardly anyone can speak it.

Thanks Urstruly for a wonderful and detailed reply (#123). I understand well that first hand experience shapes the thinking. Since different peoples experience differently, we have difference of opinion. As the time passes, human mind fine tunes, sharpens and sometime reverses the thinking for various factor, one of which is taking out emotionalism. In my case, for example, growing up in working class family and witnessing frustratingly the exploits of upper classes (elites) in a highly classed society should have directed me to avoid interacton with most people at this site who belong to upper middle to rich class. But I grew out of it. Now I have no problem interacting with KGS and Kinnaird background people although during my formative years, the total monthly income of my family was less than one month tution of one kid in one of these schools. On the other hand my first hand experience with Punjabi are mostly cultural and they are made in USA. It has always been either helpful or beneficial to me at gas stations, groceary stores, music stores and interacting with people coming from different religious and political backgrounds. Even at this site, I believe that I am more respected by Punjabis than others.

I have very clear and consistent record of opposing military in Pakistani political affairs from day one. That was the reason I joined chowk after reading about an article written by Musharraf`s son. Everybody who supports Musharraf and military rule using various kind of dumb logic is wrong in my opinion. I read the detailed proceedings of Punjab Assembly`s passage of the uniform resolution at hipakistan site you mentioned and came out perhaps more disgusted than you. At the same time, I have always maintained that Punjabis are first and foremost responsible for the conditions Punjabi language is in. I feel that the so-called Punjabi representatives in the Punjab Assembly behaved in the same despicable manner as they have been behaving towards mother language and culture. You, on the other hand, feel (correct me if I am wrong) that the so-called Punjabi leadership made the right decisions by degrading Punjabi language and culture and now making wrong decisions by supporting na-pak fauj and its grip on Pakistan. Considering this, I actually come out sicker of Punjabi leadership than you. I believe that only one good decision of Punjabi Muslims leadership in the last 150 years (since accepting Urdu language) was actually stand taken by Unionist party. As you can see that all these idiot steps by Punjabi leadership can not change my love for Punjabi language which has suffered as bad as Punjabis at the hands of so-called Punjabi leadership through history.

Ref rsridhar #53

[``The word ``Punjab`` can be broken into ``Panch`` + ``Aab``. ``Panch`` means five in Sanskrit, ``Aab`` means water in ``Persian``, so it seems to be confluence of two cultures. ``
The word ``ab`` may have been derived from the sanskrit word ``abdhi`` which means ``sea or ocean``. So huge was the confluence of Indus and the 5 rivers that the early settlers deemed it a sea or an ocean.]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! ``Panch`` is Persian for ``Five`` and ``ab`` for ``water`` so ``Punjab`` is all Persian.

On the other hand, ``ap`` is water in Sanskrit. So, an all-Sanskrit pronunciation would have been Panchap.

One has to come to the REAL Land of the Five Rivers to get the correct pronunciation. I am of course referring to the delta of the Cauvery river where the Cauvery splits into five major rivers before joining the sea. Here you will find children (and grown men) named Panchapakesan (God of the Five Waters).

Of course, some of these Panchapakesans when they settle in Delhi and other similar God-forsaken places discover a sudden affinity for the OTHER Punjabis and start naming their children Rohit, Rohan, Kiran, etc. I am yet to see reciprocity from the Tanejas and Salujas for I haven`t heard of one single Panchapakesh or Panchnadhishwar among their children.

A well written dirge of Punjabi language and culture. We should not forget that the land of five rivers which produced the humanists like the great Bulle Shah also gave birth to Illam Din, representing a cult which ultimately lead to the `Law of Blasphemy`, a sword in the hands of the bloody mullah hanging on every head. So the LOB and the `Enlightened Moderation` go hand in hand as the rivers of love are drying up.

And today we cry up again in the words of Amrita Pritam ``mein aakhan Waris Shah noon toon qabran wichon bol te aj kitabe ishq da koi agla warqa phol``.

# 131

Panj is persian for five. Pancha is Sanskrit for five.

Nazar:
The generations born after partition certainly are more removed from Punjabi as it was, and they probably are semi-lingual in West Punjab, thinking in Punjabi and writing in urdu/ english.
But ``..generations born after the partition can neither read nor write in Punjabi, their mother tongue`` is incorrect. Before partition, Punjabi was written in 2 scripts- gurmukhi and Urdu ( and possibly a third? devnagiri or persian if I`m not wholly wrong about the third; with urdu predominating as the language that was taught, and gurmukhi restricted to the granth sahib and a few practitioners of gurmukhi). After partition, the Indian side completely removed all traces of Urdu and punjabi was written only in Gurmukhi and on the pakistani side, they used urdu to write it. So `not being able to read or write in punjabi` is strange and wrong, as punjabi was written in 2 different scripts and there was no such thing as a single `punjabi script` to use or discontnue anymore. It is of course terribly sad that because of this, Indians can`t read Urdu at all, especially the large North India belt where it was so common, and now we have to read our urdu poets in (bad) translations or in scripts like english/devnagri.

And how come no mention of the Punjabi revolutionary poet `Paash`, in the list of Punjabi poets? It`d be really nice if you can find some of his poetry and update this piece with it.
Regards

Re: # 134
Great narrative.
I always heard that Punjabi was used as long as 4th century AD. There are some writings found in Thasar that dont differ too much from modern Punjabi and the alphabet used was Devnagri, which is the foundation of GuruMukhi script.

Sridharji,

What a foolish statement ``educate northies about south/SI/SI culture``?

When northies do not know their own culture what will they know about south?

I shall illustrate this better.

How many northies know the difference between Kathak and Kathakali most of them dont even know Kathak is the only NI classical dance.

Ask Punabis about the langoora or langoor dance and thy would think you are a monkey.

Ever since the Islamists came we have no culture to speak about and yes in some time the only Indian culture will be South Indian culture with a sprinkling of East Oriya/Nangla/Asom/Manipur/Tripura and West Konkani/Marathi/Gujju. thrown in.

You may not know this but there was a koke in pre-independence India to do something in Delhi you had run from Pillai to Pillai and the only one ones not appreciating this were the Nambiars, Nair, Naidus and Iyers

Regards
Sanatani

Harimau ji,

Brilliant. I will name my sons Panchapakesh or Panchnadhishwar now pls suggest names for my daughters.

BTW is it ok if modiy Panchapakesh or Panchnadhishwar to Panjapakesh or Panjnadhishwar

With Lot of Regards
Sanatani

Ref sanatani #137

[Harimau ji,

Brilliant. I will name my sons Panchapakesh or Panchnadhishwar now pls suggest names for my daughters.]

The consort of Lord Panchanadhishwar at Tiruvayyaru (Pancha Nadha Kshetra) in Tanjore district is named Dharmasamvardhini. This name, shortened to Dharma, should pose no problems for anybody including Americans because of the sitcom ``Dharma and Greg``.

[BTW is it ok if modiy Panchapakesh or Panchnadhishwar to Panjapakesh or Panjnadhishwar]

Do so by all means.

Kindest regards.

Who are you? I dont want to talk about history of Punjab. There are many different versions. In the middle you start talking about religions. WHY? It’s very sensitive and certainly you do not qualify for that. You dont sound Muslim, of course. Do you know anything about Sufies? what is the definition of Sufi? I bet you don’t know that. things you are talking about sufis (Muslims) true or false, its behavior not belief. And where do you learn about Sufis that they bypass Prophet (PBUH)?
Real sufi doesn’t matter where he lives or lived, they speak different languages though but are same in faith. Writing an article and misguiding reader, how awful.