Culture Wars

Hassan Al Siddiqi says
I think if the American government had focused more on solving political disputes rather than bombing Iraq, it would have had a much better chance on winning its war on terrorism.
1. Give Palestinians their rightful homeland
2. Give Kashmiris the right to vote and decide their fate
3. Give Sudanese people the support they need to prevent genocide
4. Give Iraq back to its people

Intereting, however, why should the americans involve themselves so deeply in Sudan and Kashmir? Kashmir is better off being dealt with the two major parties (india and pakistan) - frankly based on america`s track record - we would be better off if they kept their noses out of this one.

And as for sudan, america is proposing sanctions. Sanctions!!! can you believe it. sanctions on a country that has just sufferred so much, surely there is a better way of dealing with a problem then imposing embargoes that would further cripple the country`s already ailing economy.

The arab world should play a larger part, instead they sit quietly like tamed dogs watching from a distance. its a shame the biggest concern for a genocide is coming from the west while muslims stay quiet as a whole.

hassansiddiqi #31

How about bombing of Shia doctors in Karachi, attacks on people praying in mosques, and churches?

What kind of political disputes do you suggest be settled for eliminating these bombings and attacks on innocent `faithfuls?`

Thanks in anticipations.

-digit #28

``The way Muslim`s invoke Crusader now days is not the same way as Hindus invoke the Arab or Turkic invaders (as you are in fact doing). ``

I wonder what the basis of this statement is.

Ralph,

``I wonder what the basis of this statement is.``

Read my message again: one is an archaic term coined for a current group of people to describe their actions, the others invoke actual historical events to implicate their country folk through a guild-by-association. Not the same...

vertex #36

There is a less charitable view.

Inappropriate, deliberate, and repeated invocations of `crusades` are deliberate attempts to cast goepolitical conflicts in religious light, and to gather emotional support from Muslims who would otherwise rationally not support their `Islamic brothers and sisters.`

The difference between the average Muslims` use of these words and others` use of historical references is that for many Muslims religio-historical inventions act as ubiquitous concepts encompassing their entire existence. Few Muslims seem to be able to debate and discuss these conflictual issues without invoking the spectre of Christian `crusades` against Muslims. That includes people at such relatively englightened fora as chowk.

Others will be unwise to forget the bloody history they have faced, but in their day-to-day living, Hindus, Christians, and others seek to move beyond the past.

37,

``Inappropriate, deliberate, and repeated invocations of `crusades` are deliberate attempts to cast goepolitical conflicts in religious light, and to gather emotional support from Muslims who would otherwise rationally not support their `Islamic brothers and sisters.` ``

LOL, Yes. As I said, it is a clumsy way of mobilizing support among a similarly affected people. It is an inaccurate diagnosis of the problem, however going by the symptoms alone it is undeniable. When a people face the exact same threat, why the hell shouldn`t they call a spade a spade? Now, in this case the mistakenly call a spade a shovel, but that`s just a matter of semantics.

``Few Muslims seem to be able to debate and discuss these conflictual issues without invoking the spectre of Christian `crusades` against Muslims. That includes people at such relatively enlightened fora as chowk.``

Blah blah blah. Like I said, contemporary use of the word `crusades` is just a buzzword for colonial and post-colonial conflicts in the Muslim world by Western forces. No, this is not a religious conflict. This is a conflict is due to the imperialistic ambitions of a world power. The target, however, are members of the same religious group. Further, the conflcit is egged on by a heavy dose of ideology...so in that sense, these are a Crusade of sorts. Not a Christian one...but a Crusade nonetheless.


``Others will be unwise to forget the bloody history they have faced, but in their day-to-day living, Hindus, Christians, and others seek to move beyond the past. ``

Duh, we`re not talking about history here. I`m talking about the stuff your going to see on CNN today. Newsflash: there`s a war going on in Iraq, and the stated reasons are to bring about a change in the entire Arab/Islamic world. To put it mildly.

vertex #38

You claim that this is not a religious conflict, but then freely paint everything in sight in darkly religious, emotion-charged terms.

Not every Muslim can be expected to be so adept at dancing between the arguments, or at playing with people`s reasons and their emotions. Do you feel at all guilty or dishonest?

Ralph,

No, I still think this conflict is more or less about the imperialistic ambitions of a super power. People like you want to make it about religion, and so invoke dark and emotionally charged terminology like totalitarianism and fascism and all that. It is people like you who are aptly labeled ``Crusaders``, since you share pretty much the same mentality.

Vertex

I can show you that Islam is a fascist and totalitarian religion, whether the US was at war in Iraq or foolishly and ignorantly pumping Billions of dollars into the geen bag of Mard-e-Momin Zia-Ul-Haq.

I will continue pointing out to everyone that Islam a fascist and totalitarian (and am ready to explain to you why if you would care to listen) way of thinking and living, irrespective of what the US does.


You show no such integrity. You `know` that the current battle is not a crusade, yet `prefer` to call it a crusade, self-confessedly, for the deliberate purpose of arousing the violent passions of other Muslims who may not `know` the truth as well as you do.

That, dear vertex, is deliberate lying with the clear intent to deceive.

hamidm2

`There are good muslims but there is no such thing as good Islam`

In Pakistan at least even good muslims are becoming scarer now. There are only `Halfia Constitutional` muslims found in Pakistan which are not found elsewhere. A colleague and friend of mine who is a globe trotter told me once that any good man he met all over the world was found to be either a jew or an Ahmadi and the most hated people in the world are the `Halfia` muslims.

Re: # 29

``....he calls for a worldwide peace movement to deal with the current dangerously volatile standoff between the political Christian Right and militant political Islam.``

I am yet to read the entire thread of the narration carefully before I can comment on how did he arrive at the above potentially dangerous suggestion which clearly tows the line of OBL. But the thread seems to follow the usual line of pointing fingers at others (Imperialists, Stalinists to Maoists) who have used political violence in order to shout us into acceptance of their violent actions!!

And if he is suggesting that we re-interpret of all the violence around as requiring some sort of religious rapproachment between various religious communities is to exactly follow OBL`s ``Historical Spiritualism``. Without getting into the `source` or original inspiration behind all the technology of the violent weapons (which is irrelevant), let us not forget that 9/11 was an action designed to resusticate the hitherto forgotten imagery of violent religious jehad for attaining temporal power.

It was in a sense an attempt to re-invent fascism and legitimatize the use of forgotten religious metaphors for theocratic expansionism. As Khomeni has so succinctly mooted his spiritual right to rule the state of Russia in his letter to Gorbahov :

``In conclusion, I declare outright that the Islamic Republic of Iran as the greatest and most powerful base of the Islamic world can easily fill the vacuum of religious faith in your society. ``

If this is not neo-fascism then I fail to understand what it is???