Iran’s Bid for Regional Power

``gotta pity religious people...if you`re a catholic, you can`t use a rubber...if you`re a hindu, no Ruth`s Chris prime for YOU!!..if you`re a true blue muslim, no Seinfeld reruns for you...what`s a person to use for a crutch... ``

Dude, nothing wrong with being religious. All u have to do is ignore the messengers and set up a direct connection.

``........... if i didn`t love prime beef i would reconvert (regress) ......... ``

HamidM, there is hope for you yet. I am upper caste Hindu and enjoy prime beef steak with scalloped potatoes and Hollandaise sauce. You see, the original Hindus did eat beef. It was forbidden only as we became an agricultural society and protein in a live cow was more valuable than a dead one. You see, it is all in the interpretation...or Ijtehad if you will. :)

``Israel is not quite the democracy, nor was it ever, that people make it out to be. The laws against Muslims and Christians make the laws against Ahmedis in Pakistan look like a Charter of Human Rights.``

Load of crock. Even aparthied era South Africa treated its blacks better than the state of Pakistan treats Ahmadis. Israelis on the other hand have Arab Christian as well as Mmuslim MPs. Notwithstanding what Israel does in the occupied territories, Israeli Arabs get equal status in name and a much better status in practice compared to Non Muslims in certain Arab countries.

re: hamidm2 # 47

I agree. Deperation is quite real in Middle East. Israel has no easy choices in the matter.

Thanks on the ilogs! :)

re: Romair # 48

There is a distinct demographic equation to the problem. In this sense, I have to agree with Sharon and his plan of seeking disengagement from the occupied lands, because if Israel continues to maintain its occupation, it will risk the very identity of the state itself as a Jewish majority state.

There is no realistic hope that the Palestinians will get a seperate homeland of their own, because the present Israeli politics mitigate against such an idea. On the other hand, if the Arabs were not stupid and if they were wise, they would seek an inclusion into Israel on the basis of one (wo)man-one vote principle. The only way in which Israel can prevent the demographic imbalance is to create a political-religious apartheid and keep the Palestinians concentrated in their own areas, much as South Africa treated its black majority by keeping them in the townships.

Either way, both the Palestinians and Israelis are blinded by the politics and are seeking short term gains, because in the long term, the problem will only get worse by the present policies.

Ciao

P.S: I will write more, when I have some more time! :)

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arjun,

........ i hate to agree with a horrible hindoo, but captain clueless is archetypical of the ummah - deluded, wallowing in his misery, dreaming up all kinds of conspiracies, schizophrenic, paranoid and, to quote you, quite clueless .................

.......... sometimes i wish my great great grandpappy had not changed his name from gopinath to sheikh ahmed........... if i didn`t love prime beef i would reconvert (regress) .........

arjun:

yeah, i saw what you posted in your ilog, and was sickened and disgusted. and somehow not surprised. there IS a lot of anti-semitism in pakistan. there are also racist, bigoted and stereotypical ideas which people don`t seem to want to do away with. unfortunately quite a number of these people who have these ideas are the so-called educated ones.
apparently ``madrassahs`` aren`t the only problem.

hopefully there are even more saner minds to counter such stupidity.

******

a little correction to what i said in #61 . . . i should say that many of us harbor ``racist`` thoughts rather than ``all or most of us``. i don`t want to fall into the trap of making absolutist statements as some clueless people do.

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Romair #53

i was being sarcastic, but since you responded. . .ah choRiye. . . the only thing i can agree on is that yes, all or most of us do harbor ``racist`` thoughts and notions against a group of people. the trick is not simply to control it and not let it take over us. . .the ``trick`` is also to cure ourselves of the ignorance within, and without.

good luck!

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caling gwyneth paltrow and mark cuban ...........


gwyneth paltrow and spielberg are brilliant tactician like einstein and george soros, but it doesn`t matter - ``they`` will soon be extinct and the rabbits will inherit the earth !

.......brilliant !........... simply brilliant!

romair mian, i am not disputing what alan dershowitz and evey jewish mother is worried about .......... while mark cuban is running around with the mavericks and dreaming up the next broadcom, the bedouins are busy in their tents breeding the next generation of suiciders and homiciders ............. mark and gwyneth should get together and wage jihad against the ummah and give their people another couple of shots at the oscar and the nobel .................

.......... in any case, i am glad that you, and the rest of this ummah has this wonderful warm feeling now that you have discovered the final solution to the jewish problem ............. happy procreation !

# 52 Mr Romair

On the other hand you could have mentioned Hugh Hefner and Michael Eisner and you would have been right on the money.

Anyway getting involved with either party - Arabs or their cousins the Chosen people is not something America should worry about, America should let the desert cousins work out their little familial , sibling rivalry.

``Personally speaking, I think Jews are very successful at an individual level, because they think clearly tactically. Which is why they win so many Nobel prizes, and control half the Nasdaq (Larry Ellision, Andy Grove and Michael Dell being good examples). However, they are very poor long term planners, which maybe why only 16 million are left in the whole world, despite having control of major power centers of the world, at one point......... ``

Thats one of the dumbest things i have ever read on chowk. So in your world view, every jew start thinking tactically to win Nobel prizes and to start companies like Dell, Oracle so that they control NASDAQ. In your view companies like Oracle, Intel, Dell and many sceintific ideas that changed this world are the result of short term planning of the Jewish people. In your world view uncontrollable breeding is long term planning.

Huh, and you run a business?

+++++++++++++++++++
Personally speaking, I think Jews are very successful at an individual level, because they think clearly tactically. Which is why they win so many Nobel prizes, and control half the Nasdaq (Larry Ellision, Andy Grove and Michael Dell being good examples). However, they are very poor long term planners, which maybe why only 16 million are left in the whole world, despite having control of major power centers of the world, at one point.........
++++++++++++++++++++++

This is one of the stupidest things I have read at chowk. Ellison and Dell who built some of the world`s best businesses are not long term planners!!!

ana #53: Yes it is very refreshing.

All of us have racism of some sort inside us. The trick is to control it and not let it affect our lives and others` lives. For example, I have racism against Arabs. Because I have been to their lands, and have met them, and have seen first hand their racist views about Pakistanis, which extend throughout their societies. Did you know that Christians are not allowed to bring Bibles into Saudi Arabia. And Pakistanis citizens get fractions of salaries of goras, for doing the same jobs......

Similarly, I have a great deal of dislike of how the various Jewish groups inside and outside the USA have started to sideline and target Muslims and Arab and various South Asians (including Christians from these areas). It is a systemetic attempt to create violence against Muslims, in an attempt to cover the actions of Israel. I go as an audience or call into shows here in Canada, and am amazed at how Jewish commentators argue, in their politically correct manner, to get all kinds of laws passed against local Muslims, here in Canada, also. Luckily the Muslims here, unlike the USA, are quite assertive, and have not allowed much to happen.......

I used to use the politicaly correct term of pro-Israeli groups. However, now I have to admit the obvious and call them Jewish groups.

At the same time, I do my best to control these likes and dislikes, at a personal level, when interacting with people, since each individual is different..........That is all anyone can do.....

well, it`s always refreshing when people can admit to their own racist and bigoted views, isn`t it?

hamidm mian!!

All the info I have provided is from Israeli and Jewish sources: Dershowtiz and demographic studies presented by Isrealis themselves, etc. However, you have not provided any facts to counter the information I provided, about demographics, other than an analogous reference to peeing in one`s pants. I have never peed in my pants, so I cannot relate to the feeling you have described.........

Having said that, I actually want to set up an office in Tel-Aviv in the next ten years, if my business can grow. Which is why I am trying to find out about the place. If you have any info contradicting my info, it would be greatly appreciated............

Personally speaking, I think Jews are very successful at an individual level, because they think clearly tactically. Which is why they win so many Nobel prizes, and control half the Nasdaq (Larry Ellision, Andy Grove and Michael Dell being good examples). However, they are very poor long term planners, which maybe why only 16 million are left in the whole world, despite having control of major power centers of the world, at one point.........

Someone racistly told me that whichever country accepts Jews has always prospered. And that Jews always overstay their welcome. At the expense of being racist, I tend to agree. And they are overestimating their welcome in the USA, by getting it involved in every unnecessary war in the world. I am convinced that Israelis, despite their Noble prizes will get us all killed - Americans and Pakistanis. They don`t seem to know when to stop, which is why they keep getting themselves in trouble. It isn`t long till the Republicans will get rid of the neo-cons. And the fringe American leaders, right of the Republicans (Pat Buchanan) and left of the Democrats (Nader) are already pointing out the fact that pro-Israel lobby will get America screwed. A fact I agree with.

Personally, I am neither here nor there on Arab-Israel. I am somewhat of a racist when it comes to Arabs, since they are racists towards Pakistanis. Nor am I a fan of the Ummah. And I think Pakistan should recognize Israel, within 67 borders. And I also oppose the human rights violations of Israelis, and the potential World Wars it is starting to cause............

..... oh, that nice warm feeling!


.... i can see that the good muslims are feeling smug and happy because they have figured out they can outbreed the jews into submission (quite clever for the madrassites) .......... but do they realize that it will be humanity`s loss - between 1901 and 2003, 735 nobel prizes were handed out ....... of these, 161 are jews and six muslims (takbeer!)......... and these six include abdus salaam and naguib mahfouz who, to quote some of our more rabid co-religionists, are either infidels or whores ..........

........... so the ummah has this nice warm feeling that one gets after peeing in his pants .......... it stinks, but who cares!

Very accurate lines Omair: the term often used is that Israel is demographically doomed. There is an interesting parallel between what is happening to Israel and what happened to the Crusader state of the 12th century. Similar to those days, the Arabs remain divided and militarily outnumbered at any one time..simply because the Arabs have engaged in piecemeal war with Israel, even when Israel was created in 1948 Israeli troops at anyone time were numerically equal to the forces opposing them.


If you think about it besides the demographic challenge people forget the internal change that is happening to Israel, because of the higher population growth rate the conservative Jewish groups are now in ascendancy over the secularists. This is reflected in the electoral strength of the right wing groups opposed to peace. Internally in the USA the ``dilution`` or ``integration`` of the Jewish community into American society is reaching un precedented levels. While that does not mean that those people of Jewish descent are any less Pro Israel (to understand what I mean ..consider the role of the Irish Americans vis a vis the IRA) it does mean a weakening of interest in ever relocationg to Israel and that may effect the level of support people are maybe willing to contribute. Because of this contrast the gap between Jews in Israel and those in the diaspora is increasing and one could argue people like Ariel Sharon have more in common with Yasser Arafat than the head of AIPAC.

.... israel is the only country where arabs can vote ........ ingrates!

Ferozek #45: In my opinion, much more than the rabbis, it is the demographics that the Israelis are relly scared of.

Jewish population in the world is about the same as Karachi`s population. However, it is reducing and the demographics of the two most important Jewish areas (Israel and USA) is changing rapidly. Infact, so rapidly that Israel, in worst scenario, may not be around in 75 years. And, in its best scenario, will have a significantly different look than Israel of today.

Israel is not quite the democracy, nor was it ever, that people make it out to be. The laws against Muslims and Christians make the laws against Ahmedis in Pakistan look like a Charter of Human Rights. All of this was done to maintain a demogrphic balance, in favor of Jews. A Jewish person who has never heard of Israel can make one phone call and become a citizen of Isreal, from anywhere in the world. While a Christian or Muslim whose family has lived in the same house for centuries, cannot create an extension to it. In Pakistan, at least, Ahmedis are allowed to buy houses or add a room to his house.......

While it is the, ``White Jews`` (called Ashkenazim meaning German) who run the govt. and write the books, the actual Jewish population of Israel is not so White. The Eastern Jews are called Mizrahem. Mizrahem were around 15% in 48. Then due to massive migrations from Arab countries, these Jews became a majority, i.e. Arab/North Afrian Jews outnumbered all other Jews in Isreal. Then a massive migration of Russian Jews occured, in 90s and the White Jews became a majority again.

So basically Isreal is an ethnically, predominately Russian and Arab Jewish state. Not Western or Eastern European Jewish state, as many people think. And definitely not American Jewish. Interestingly, there has never been a single Mizrahem Jewish PM or President etc. in Isreal. They are the poorest, also, and they don`t intermarry much with Ashkenazims. Mizrahems have only 1/3rd the college degrees as Ashkanazims. This is probably why it is difficult to pick out Arab suicide bombers, because they probably look like Arab Jews.

Interestingly, we recruit IT employees and a lot of Russian candidates have post-graduate degrees from Russia. I have intereviewed so many. There is one thing that is consistent with all Russian candidates. So many (in fact most) of them are Jewish. The common profile of a Russian candidate is Ph.D is pure sciences from Russia. Moved to Isreal. Worked there for some years. And then moved to Canda. Again and again, similar resumes. All migrating out of Israel, for North America.

In 60 minutes, they showed that Israelis are now very eager for Green Cards and US, Canadian and European migrations. Specifically the Ashkenazims, who tend to be more educated. There is thus an outflow from the Promised land. And the inflow and relocation of Jews from other countries has exhausted. European countries like France barely have any Jews left (around 500000) and American Jews obviously do not want to leave. And all the Arab and Russian Jews are already in Isreal. Israeli govt. is even trying to get Jews from India, when they heard their were some there.

Interestingly, the population of Isreal is 6.7 million. Out of which 5.4 million are Jewish (out of which a huge chunk is Arab/Oriental/Mizrahem Jews). Isreal, interestingly, has 1.3 non-Jewish citizens, out of which over a million are Muslims. These are actual Israeli citizens. Not Muslims in occupied terriroties of Isreal. Many Muslims don`t know that Isreal has over 1 million Muslim citizens. Interestingly, the population of Muslims Isrealis is projected to double in 25 years to around 2 million. While the population of Jewish Isrealis will only grow to around 6.8 million.

So in twenty years, Muslims will outnumber Jews in Isreal and occupied terroritories, combined. And who knows, within 100? years, Muslim citizens of Isreal may outnumber Jewish citizens of Isreal itself, within actual Isreal. All of this without any right of return Muslims coming back to Israel.

In addition, and perhaps more importantly there are over 5 million Jews in America. There population matches the population of Jews in Isreal. This group is massively dispropotianetely influential in the USA, due to their high level of achievement. However, according to Allan Dershewitz`s (a very successful and very pro-Israeli Jewish American lawyer) book, ``The Vanishing American Jew,`` Jews are disappering in the USA. Their rate of birth is apparently absymally low (successful people have fewer kids). And most of all they are intermarrying with American Christians, with their next generation thus being non-Jewish.

``One Harvard study predicts that if current demographic trends continue, the American Jewish community is likely to number less than 1 million and conceivably as few as 10,000 by the time the United States celebrates its tricentennial in 2076.`` (http://www.palmdigitalmedia.com/product/book/excerpt/1986)

So, in 75 years there will (maybe) be only 10,000 to 1 million Jews in America. And the combined Muslim/Christian population of Isreal/West Bank/Gaza will greatly outnumber Jewish population in that area. And the Muslim citizenry of Israel itself will be in some competitive proportion to Jewish citizenry of Israel (which maybe a Mizrahem majority again). And the population of Jews in places like France is already next to nill (1/10th of the Muslim population in France. It will be non-existent by that time.

It is probably these issues that are drviing Isreali policies to a great extent. And not just Arab-Israeli violence. This maybe what is behind the concepts of, ``Greater Israel.`` With Muslim/Christian Arabs in occupied terrotories growing so fast, and Jews reducing in influential international countries so quickly, it would make sense for Israel to (even inhumanely) clear out the Palestinians from as much of the area as possible, through settlements etc. and force them to migrate, ``voluntarily`` to areas outside of Greater Israel.

Otherwise, Israel will demographically implode, once again becoming a minority Jewish area........

hamidm mian -

i learned a few things about whores while working in a grocery store in a poor neighborhood for a couple of months in my undergrad years. these whores sort of mark an area as their own territory. the unwritten rule is that they don`t venture into other whore`s territory.

so might i suggest that you stick to what you know. and madrassah, israel and oil are something you don`t know. one day you lament that madrassas don`t teach economics and maths. the next day you lament that they do teach economics and maths, but not the way you like it.

calling an apartheid state as a ``beacon of light`` is laughable. i suggest that you put your money where your mouth is, something laptop bombers like yourself are inept at, and visit israel. the airport security guards in that ``beacon of light`` will search in those cavities in your body that you did not even know existed....just because your name is hamidm. then it might occur to you that the ``beacon`` is more like phallus.

stick with a ``territory`` you know. i suggest you become a standup comedian. people will laugh of you, laugh at you, laugh with you, or laugh you out.

but until the day you could be taken seriously, or the day we see a flying horse - whichever comes first, i still think the extremist and mad bomber hamidm should be bombed.

ferozek,

..... i agree with you 90%......... the only difference is that i believe that the arabs, as you suggest obliquely, cannot be trusted and israel has been forced into taking an extreme position ........the wall is an act of desperation and targeted killings are a necessary preventive measure (and nobody is denying the excesses here)...........nevertheless, israel is a real democracy where a sizeable majority despises the rabid orthodox settlers and their mullah-like rabbis ...........so, if the israelis really believed that the arabs (and as you point out, it is the arab people, not the regimes) accspted the existence of israel, the labor party would be back in power in the next election and there could be a lasting settlement ............ greater isreal is just another myth like akhand bharat, perpetuated by a paranoid ummah doped on islam and ridiculous memories of a glorious past ...............

......... in any case, bombing the madrassas is a good start to resolving this impasse ........


p.s. i really enjoy your ilogs even though they are a little too dark sometimes

re: hamidm2

Hamidm, Israel was a beacon of democracy when it was a secular state but the politics of religion has made Israel into a theocracy, which is no different from the other despotic regimes in Middle East.

Israel policies are a wild card in the region, because if the intent is to preserve the physical security of Israel itself, it makes no sense to create instability and hostility by recklessly provoking confrontation. The United States maybe doing Israel`s bidding, but realistically speaking, Tel Aviv has not been helping Washington`s cause in the region either. Even if the United States` strategic economic interests demand the monoploy over the region`s oil bearing strata, Israeli policies are actually forcing United States beyond a politically ``fail-safe`` point.

United States cannot fight Israel`s war in perpetuality and soon Israel will have to realize and so will the Arabs, that they may despise the geography of their location and may loathe each other, but they cannot alter their geo-political situation. The problem in the Middle East is that no nation wants to live within its geo-political constraints and wants to unhinge the status quo in its favor. The Arab nations will, and indeed accept, the tilt in the balance of power towards Israel due to their own domestic complusions of maintaing internal power, but their populations will see that as an appeasement of Israel due to American influence and presssure.

This in the long term is even more dangerous to the security of Israel, because it may kill the entire population of West Bank and Gaza and the occupied lands, but even Israel with all its military hardware and the will to kill the Arabs, cannot kill the entire Arab population of the Middle East. In the end, Tel Aviv has to realize that the greater threat to its security comes not from the Arab governments, but from the perceptions of the Arab population and thus, killing for the sake of killing is not going to insure the security of Israel. On the other hand, if the Israelis want to persist in the final solution of the Arab Question, then it must convince the United States to garrison the whole region in order to prevent a popular religious-political revolution in the region, which will topple the pro-United States Arab regimes.

Consequently, the United States` interests are more harmed by tolerating Israeli excesses and the question is; can the United States occupy the whole region of Middle East in order to gurantee Israeli security and pre-empt threats to its own interests as a result of Israeli political actions in the region?

No one can or should suggest that the United States stop supporting Israel, but prudence demands that such a support be linked to a pragmatic calculation of the pros and cons of United States` interests in the region. United States` political and diplomatic myopia in supporting Israel has created a potential cul-de-sac for United States in the region and if the United States` interest is securing the flow of cheap and realible oil supplies, then Israeli policies are actually a liability for the United States, in the Middle East, as far as the strategic interests of United States` political economy is concerned.

Ciao

malik mian,

.......... so now that you have admitted that the OIL theory does not hold any water, we are back to the old zionist conspiracy theory, are we? ............ i am sorry, but i can`t help you much on this one ....... as i have often stated, israel is a shining beacon of light and an outpost of civilization in the dark desert of ignorance and barbarism .......... if america got rid of saddam to reduce the threat to israel, then it was the right thing to do ..............

.... in any case, we need to bomb the madrassas to make sure we don`t have to bomb towns and cities in the future ..................

malik99,

......... i resent being the target of your suicide bombings - we all know that the ummah has not been able to make anything fly since the winged horse (unless, of course, you count the pilots of 9/11) ..........

...... anyhow, i have nothing against the madrassas as long as they stick to the business of teaching the holy sacraments and the ancient grecian art of sexuality, but when they start teaching economics and science and geopolitics it does get a little crazy ..... don`t you think?....... the other day, i heard a perfectly sane man talking about islamic banking and trying to sell me an ``islamic`` mortgage that would cost me a little bit more now but would pay dividends in the hereafter ..........luckily, a fool wasn`t born that day ! ..... the same person had this theory of oil futures that, to be honest, was quite bizzare ........... and maulana fazloo is not the only one who has a bird in his turban - remember sheik bin baz, the grand sheikh of mecca whose namaz-janaza was led by the khalifa himself ? ......... that blind as a bat looney actually went to his grave preaching the flat earth theory ......... no wonder all these theories put out by the great islamic scholars and their sophomoric students don`t have a whole lot of credibility ....................

......... so untill we actually see a flying horse let`s bomb the madrassas ...............

#38 by hamidm2
Notwithstanding your ultra-condescending tone, and also notwithstanding Ataullah, who is one of my fav columnist:
1. Oil is indeed a diminishing resource and fast depleting, and there are no mass-scale substitute--yet.
2. Oil is not an ordinary commodity. Unlike coffee or soya bean, it does drastically affect the global economy. A sudden price escalation could stymie global growth and devastate weak economies.
3. Itz very easy to critisize a postulate, specially by the appellation of a conspiracy theory; but pray tell me what the hell is the US doing in Iraq? Bringing democracy?
4. And what the hell are American troops doing in the former states of Soviet Union? Catching communists? My dear sir, the US forces are there, specially in Georgia and Azerbaijan to protect the oil corridor.

#38 by hamidm2
Notwithstanding your ultra-condescending tone, and also notwithstanding Ataullah, who is one of my fav columnist:
1. Oil is indeed a diminishing resource and fast depleting, and there are no mass-scale substitute--yet.
2. Oil is not an ordinary commodity. Unlike coffee or soya bean, it does drastically affect the global economy. A sudden price escalation could stymie global growth and devastate weak economies.
3. Itz very easy to critisize a postulate, specially by the appellation of a conspiracy theory; but pray tell me what the hell is the US doing in Iraq? Bringing democracy?
4. And what the hell are American troops doing in the former states of Soviet Union? Catching communists? My dear sir, the US forces are there, specially in Georgia and Azerbaijan to protect the oil corridor.

why we should bomb hamidm..............

the whores did not exactly go back to las vegas after the oil orgy of 1980 was over.....some of these whores morphed into intellectuals and visionaries and started advocating on chowk about bombing the world into submission.........

..........oil is certainly a reason...its not THE reason for the focus of whores in the middle east............bush did not send troops into iraq because he just could not live with his guilt that he was enjoying all the freedoms, tax breaks and golf outings whereas the poor iraqis were oppressed in iraq.............

.........oil is a short term goal, until the supplies run out or the alternative fuel arrangements are made..............but there is another long term menace...its called israel....wish it was short term too...but its not.....``redraw the map of middle east`` is a phrase often heard in white house.....why redraw it? is it because Bush feels like using his MBA skills to good use?.......no, it is to be redrawn because israel cannot realistically sustain itself in a sea of hostility in middle east..........saddam`s threat of burning ``half of israel`` in 1990 was his cardinal sin.....his other sin was of supporting palestinians........iran and syria are guilty of the same thing.....at israel`s insistance text books in egypt and saudi arabia are being changed to alter the young minds into thinking that israel is a legitimate entity.......

...........and then the unintended friends of hamidm, known as Southern baptist chrisians want Jesus to come back to earth....they want Jesus now.....and the only way Jesus can be lured back to earth is if all the jews gather in Israel.....and so the work of whores is cut out for them......

..............besides, any power needs room to manuever....and america is doing just that......it needs resources.........and markets...........and whores to work as the propagandists..........

.......such extremist whores should be chased out of this world.........only the moderate whores are welcome........if these extremist ``bomber`` whores want acceptance then they need to moderate their extremist views.......i suggest enrolling in a madrassah under Maulana Fazlur Rehman.......that should pull these whores a bit to the middle from their far right positions.....

.............bomb hamidm!

The soft underbelly of iran is its own disenchanted segment of the population and the stranglehold that the ayatollahs have over all spheres. There would undoubtedly be a circling of the wagon if Iran were to be attacked (a not too distant possibility in Shrub`s second term) but the internal fissures also would lead to a civil-war like situation. It`s essential for iran`s long term viability as an independent nation for there to be internal reforms first.
It all looked so easy 18 months ago when iran was flanked by us military that the march towards tehran would begin once things settled down in iraq. But iran seems to have, at least temporarily, outwitted the US strategic planners and the US is bogged down in iraq.
Iran`s nuclear weapons would uncertainly have a destabilizing effect in the middle east. A nuclearized iran would be emboldened to increase its support for the hezbollah and hamas and keep israel on the defensive. The situation could easily get out of hand.

why we should bomb the madrassas.............

``‘OIL’ is a mesmeric word for Muslims. Along with ‘our’ bomb, it is subconsciously assumed to be the answer, in some mysteriously woolly fashion, to the many woes of the Ummah `` ......... munir ataullah is one muslim who is not blinded by faith and ignorance ............http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_15-9-2004_pg3_2

............... munir is right - just north of calgary a canuck can walk out into his backyard, scoop up a spoonfull of sand, put it in the blender, turn it into oil and still make a profit at $30 a barrel ........... and they have a lot of sand .............. also, if everyone started buying hybrid cars the us could reduce oil imports by 50% and the bedouins would be left pounding sand and drinking oil to chase down their dates ..........of course, it is in the short-term interest of the civilized world to ensure an uninterrupted supply of cheap islamic oil, but in the long-term it doesn`t matter diddly squat ..............contrary to popular iman, oil is just another commodity and is governed by the simple rules of supply and demand .........

........ in the early-mid eighties, when i was in the oil business (what a party!), oil was over $35 a barrel and the north american rig count was over 4400............every cowboy in his ostrich skin boots and hart schnaffer suit was drilling in his neighbour`s backyard, freshly minted harvard mba`s from shady outfits like mckinsey and booze were helping their clients on the road to bankruptcy with their $100 a barrel projections, the annual show in houston was the biggest party on earth with arab sheiks and las vegas prostitutes whopping it up, and midland texas was heaven on earth ............. then what happened? .......... oil dropped to $10, the whores went back to vegas as their customers went back to the holy land, pigeons started to roost in the skyscapers in downtown midland, the banks in houston ended up with more houses than imelda had shoes, the boys from mckinsey moved on to rape and pillage other industries, and the cowboys went into politics ..............just out of curiosity i checked the rig count - it is around 1800, up 26% from last year ............. the party might be starting all over again in texas!

............ so, dear madrassites, oil is like corn and sand, just another commodity governed by the market - the vagararies of texas shysters and saudi mullahs who try to manipulate it has little effect in the long run ....... but as munir says, ``Unfortunately, the great thinkers of the Ummah do not concern themselves with such niceties. With no tradition of independent and critical analysis to help us reappraise altered circumstances, it is our fate to cling to outmoded theories well past their sell-by date.`` .............. and that is why we need to bomb the madrassas - to liberate the ummah from ignorance .......

........... bomb the madrassas!

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hamidm # 29 writes ``.... bomb the madrassas ! ``

.... bomb hamidm
........ can someone put a stop to this dr. bomber........ he sits around in his pyjamas asking for bombings and killings here and there......bombings in madrassas, bombing in iran, bombing in iraq, bombing in saudi arabia.....and can someone also explain to this bomber living in the 12th century that in this well connected information age, even a 13 year old can reason that all these bombings have nothing to do with ``liberation`` of people..... and more to do with the subjugation of people for strategic reasons....if that were not the case then america as a nation should be awared nobel peace prize of 2004....surely russia will not want to stay behind and will invade all its neighbors to win the 2005 peace prize....greater china might go for it in 2006....in this world when the voices of moderation and reason are increasingly being heard from western and muslim societies, extremists like hamidm should be run out of planet earth....which cave they have been living in???...
............ bomb hamidm!

# 29 Hamidn2
You said: - ........ can someone explain to our latest expert in geo-politics and economics why america does not have to control its biggest sources of oil - canada, mexico and nigeria ........ and while we are at it, can somone explain it to our new genius that a barrel of oil is simply a barrel of oil when it hits the market and it doesn`t say ``made in iraq``.......... also iran and iraq did not stop selling oil to the us, it was the us that refused to buy it ......... .......... this oil theroy crap reminds me of the ``hinterlad`` theory and the ``strategic depth`` nonsense that was taught to us by the khaki clad idiots at kakul ............... this points out the basic problem with the ummah - sheer sutpidity aggravated by the lack of good education ............ bomb the madrassas ! ``


Okay, so you are under the impression that the United States actions are more to do with liberation and the war on terror then strategic control. Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but its worth pointing out a few facts.
In 1990, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, you will recall a no. of facts. Ill try not to go into too much detail. Firstly, this was a border dispute, Iraq had made its claim of Kuwait at the U.N. in the 1960s. Secondly, Iraq had just finished a war with Iran - a war supported by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Usa and other western countries. The Iraqi economy was in tatters, Saddam appeared in the Arab league and pleaded (his speech is famous because he actually brought tears to his eyes) that his country is dying, and to maintain oil production at a certain level so as to help revenues and had asked the Arab nations to help cancel off some debt. Some countries agreed, Kuwait secretly ignored it, pumping more oil (a lot from Iraqi oil fields on the border) , costing Iraq 14 billion in revenues. And so on so forth.
The invasion produced many reconicilliatory efforts, yet America ignored reasonable peace demands (iraq promised to leave Kuwait, if Israel returned to 67 borders, and even last minute deals with the Soviet Union were ignored) instead the U.S. went with the rhetoric that they will not be another Chamberlain, this idea was pushed by a certain Dick Cheney then in the Pentagon. The invasion presented them with a great oppurtunity and they took it.
Kuwait paid for the war, and lets not forget, the U.S. it created 6 millitary bases in the Arab world. in the years proceeding the war, the United States literally owns the Kuwait oil industry - infact their companies earn more in oil revenues than the Kuwaitis! Because the Arabs lack the technology (and still dont do f... all about it)

Afghanistan in 2001 was a legitamate war in my book - yet it also presented them with the pipelines that are being built through several nations in this region.
Iraq does not own its oil industry my friend, it now belongs to the Americans. by putting in place their own choices as leaders, the Americans have signed countless contracts with the Iraqi regime to rebuild Iraq - whos paying - the Iraqi oil will pay, and the American economy benefits. This is the same way America came out of its great depression during and after World War 2, they rebuilt Germany and Japan - and in addition, their countless loans - commonly known as the marshall plan - literally helped build a continent.

Just a few interesting thoughts....I think its unfair to say that the U.S. is the great bastion of democracy - this is not about democracy its about strategic goals.
Lastly, by saying all the above, I recognize great discrepancies and unjustness in American foreign policy, yet I do not believe in extremism to combat this gap. I honestly believe that the Muslim world with all its great potential should build itself up once again - not by emulating the West - but by taking an honest look at our track record, histories and present dillemas and by working together to bring about better days in the future.
Let me know what you think....

#29 by hamidm2
Dear Hamidm2,
I make no claims to be an expert or a genuis, I commented on an issue according to my lights; as you have an equal right to comment on or critize my views. So let us eschew snide and derogtory tune and have a mature discussion.
Now coming down to the specific points you raised:
1. Yes the US has got access to the Canadian oil, its own oil in Alaska and other sources; not to mention the ecological and cultural havoc the Western oil companies are creating in Nigeria.
2. The US interest in Darfur/ Sudan imbroglio is due to oil.
3. The dispatch of the US forces in Ivory Coast with the French collaboration, ostensibly for peace-keeping chores was actually for oil.
4. In the aftermath of 9/11, the US has stationed forces even in D`joubiti and Equatorial Guinea, only for oil.
5. Oil is depleting fast and is expected to last only uptill 2025 ( at the present estimates).
6. The US is not touching its own oil, and keeping it as a reserve.
7.The Chinese and the Indian economies are both expected to overtake the American in the next 25 years. Oil is the life-blood of the modern economy; therefore retaining access to the diminishing oil resources and denying the same to the potential competitors is the name of the game.
8. From the historical point of view, after the 1973, oil embargo, the US decided to physically control the oil at the resource, so as to obviate a recurrence of 1973, which was highly devastating to the US economy. The string of geopolitical events including the Iran-Iraq War, the two US-led wars against Iraq, including the stationing of the US troops in Saudi Arabia are the result of that American ambition and the geopolitical dimension of the US energy policy initiated by James Baker about a quarter century ago,; and now implemented with blind gusto by the present neo-con junta in Washington.
#28 Ralph
Ralph,
We are all here was learning through mutual dialogue and exchange of views. And we all are ignorant, thatz why we need to learn from each other

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if only some of our more exuberant collegues should realize it!
You comments are more than welcome.

So Long

#29 by hamidm2
Dear Hamidm2,
I make no claims to be an expert or a genuis, I commented on an issue according to my lights; as you have an equal right to comment on or critize my views. So let us eschew snide and derogtory tune and have a mature discussion.
Now coming down to the specific points you raised:
1. Yes the US has got access to the Canadian oil, its own oil in Alaska and other sources; not to mention the ecological and cultural havoc the Western oil companies are creating in Nigeria.
2. The US interest in Darfur/ Sudan imbroglio is due to oil.
3. The dispatch of the US forces in Ivory Coast with the French collaboration, ostensibly for peace-keeping chores was actually for oil.
4. In the aftermath of 9/11, the US has stationed forces even in D`joubiti and Equatorial Guinea, only for oil.
5. Oil is depleting fast and is expected to last only uptill 2025 ( at the present estimates).
6. The US is not touching its own oil, and keeping it as a reserve.
7.The Chinese and the Indian economies are both expected to overtake the American in the next 25 years. Oil is the life-blood of the modern economy; therefore retaining access to the diminishing oil resources and denying the same to the potential competitors is the name of the game.
8. From the historical point of view, after the 1973, oil embargo, the US decided to physically control the oil at the source, so as to obviate a recurrence of 1973, which was highly devastating to the US economy. The string of geopolitical events including the Iran-Iraq War, the two US-led wars against Iraq, including the stationing of the US troops in Saudi Arabia are the result of that American ambition; and the geopolitical dimension of the US energy policy initiated by James Baker about a quarter century ago; and now implemented with blind gusto by the present neo-con junta in Washington.
#28 Ralph
Dear Ralph,
We are all here was learning through mutual dialogue and exchange of views. And we all are ignorant, thatz why we need to learn from each other

---

if only some of our more exuberant collegues should realize it!
You comments are more than welcome.

So Long

hamidm mian!!

One must appreciate your dedication to the USA. You speak more eloquently than any well-motivated red-blooded apple-pie eating American from Sattelite Town, Rawalpindi that I have ever met. Bush and Kerry must never forget their Sattelite Town votebase......

But why are you bent upon causing trouble for poor American soldiers? There are a couple of things you should consider:

1. Superpowers do very well in taking out secular westernised leaders and regimes, in Muslim countries. But they tend to get their butts kicked by maulvis. Everytime a superpower invades a Muslim country, the end result is the superpower running away with its tail between its legs, the seculars migrating to Freemont, California. And the maulvis taking over.

The Soviets invaded Afghanistan. They killed 1 million Afghanis. But the Mujs kicked their asses. And eventually the Taliban ended up taking over Afghanistan. American bombed the same Talibans who were its allies. However, now the Taliban are again preparing to take over.

America invaded Iraq. The secular Saddam fell like a deck of cards. But now the maulvis with their molotov cocktails have completely destroyed the reputation of the kevlar-clad, mic-equipped M-16-armed 400 billion dollar mighty US Army. To the point that West Point trained American Generals have to negotiate with madrassa-trained 30 year old Sadr in one city, and his uncle 80 year old Sistani in another.

The same thing will happen if the Americans invade Iran. The maulvis will kick ass, and then strengthen their control on Iran.

So in a superpower vs. maulvi contest, I have learnt to put my money on the maulvi.........

2. I have some acquitences in the US military. And they are under a lot of family pressures, due to Iraq. One poor American Lt. Col. went to Iraq to serve his country. The guy has had a tour of over a year, fighting in limited air-conditioning in the deserts of Baghdad.

His wife, in her mid-thirties is quite a sight: The face of Cindy Crawford and the body of Anna Nicole. Well, lo and behold, while Colonel Sahib was away fighting, Begum Sahib just could not control herself any longer. Her threshold of control, like most Western liberated lolitas, did not go beyond six months. So somewhere along the line, Begum Sahib, decided to, as we say politely in military-speak, ``climb the turret, cruise the missile, ride the sidewinder, dock the submarine`` (if you know what I mean).

Now it is one thing to go to cool forests of Vietnam, get beat, and then return to protesting students who spit on you. All soldiers can handle that. But it is something else to go fight an unpopular war in the blazing heat of Arabistan, against fanatic maulvis. And then return home, after a year to find out that your significant other decided to, as we say politely in military-speak, ``climb the turret, cruise the missile, ride the sidewinder, dock the submarine`` (if you know what I mean).

This is the main problem facing the US soldiers, who have been gone for months to years. Sadr and Sistani being secondary problems. So if you keep up your cheerleading and rhetoric for an attack on Iran also, after Iraq, I am worried that the above-mentioned Colonel Sahib and his Sargents may track you down on Murree Road or near Ghakkar Plaza as you are eating Karim kay somosay, and have their way with you. And we wouldn`t want that to happen, would we.............So I suggest you may want to reconsider being holier than the rabbi, and neo-er than the neo-cons........

P.S. There is something to be said for the chained and suppressed lolitas of Pakistan, who spend decades waiting aimlessly for thier husband to return, when informed he is missing in action. The stupid ladies never even look at another man for thirty years. But, at least, if through some miracle, their husband does return, the poor guy will not have to go through what Colonel Sahib had to face.................

.... bomb the madrassas !

``the real objectives: to control the Caspian Sea/ Central Asian oil and gas resources as well as the Middle Eastern ones``

........ can someone explain to our latest expert in geo-politics and economics why america does not have to control its biggest sources of oil - canada, mexico and nigeria ........ and while we are at it, can somone explain it to our new genius that a barrel of oil is simply a barrel of oil when it hits the market and it doesn`t say ``made in iraq``.......... also iran and iraq did not stop selling oil to the us, it was the us that refused to buy it .........

.......... this oil theroy crap reminds me of the ``hinterlad`` theory and the ``strategic depth`` nonsense that was taught to us by the khaki clad idiots at kakul ............... this points out the basic problem with the ummah - sheer sutpidity aggravated by the lack of good education ............ bomb the madrassas !

Dear Naeem

I have some interest in Iran but I know very little about it. In my post, I was just having some fun at your expense, of stuka #23 kind. Please don`t mind.

Being igonorant of the issues here, I will now keep quiet. :)

malik #16,

i agre, the iranians can ``get rid of their current rulers if/when they get sick of them``........... but like the oppressed people of east europe they need some reagenesque help - totalitarian regimes can last a long time and continue to oppress their people because they own all the guns ............ i will gladly give up a few tax dollars to help the right people in iran

Thanks to all of you, who have commented on this article. Let me first try to answer specific questions raised by Arjun and Ralph.

#9 Arjun_M
The Americans have encircled Iran from 3 sides, Iraq, Afghanistan and the sea. Aerial attacks are not enough to subdue a country. You need to put boots on ground to achieve results. One must keep in mind the American objectives to attack Afghanistan and Iraq, not the ostensible, but the real objectives: to control the Caspian Sea/ Central Asian oil and gas resources as well as the Middle Eastern ones. And secondly to eliminate the threat posed by Iraq to Israel. I wont go into the subsidiary objectives. After Iraq it was to be Iran and Syria. But the well-planned resistance by the Iraqis foiled the Grand Strategy of the Americans. They have lost time and credibility to fulfill their agenda. But make no mistake, the agenda is still on the table. The observers or comentators who think that the Americans would withdraw from Iraq a` la Viet Nam, Somalia or Lebanon are wrong. This war (in Iraq) is not a mere colonial war. America cannot afford to withdraw from Iraq. Bucause this is a war of global hegemony through the control of resources and the denial of the same to the competitors

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in this case China and India. You just need to look at the world map to discern this. The Americans deployed their forces world-wide in 64 new bases within 18 months of 9/11, and they expanded NATO eastwards, touching the borders of Russia. The map will show you that the American deployment coincides with the present or potential routes of oil/gas pipelines, especially in Central Asia.
The point of the afore-going is, that had the Iraqi resistance not thrown in a spanner in the US plans, Iran and Syria would have been in the US crosshairs

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remember the Axis-of-Evil?
So Iranian security is very much in jeopardy. Then there is the Israeli factor too. Presently, Iran is the most serious threat to Israel. And Israel has gone public with its intentions to take off the Busher Nuclear plant.
Presently, the conditions are not conducive for the Americans to take on Iran, because of their miscalculations and the force co-relationship in the region. But a pre-emptive Israeli strike on the Iranian nuclear installations is very much a likely scenario.
#18 Ralph
Iran is in no position to exert hegemony anywhere. But it certainly is trying to project its power in the region to promote its strategic interests. Its area of key interest is Iraq, where it dreamt for the last decade to have a pro-Iranian Shiite government. But due to the recent events in Iraq it has lost a lot of leverage there. But than thats another story, requiring a seperate article. It is trying to assert itself in Afghanistan, in cahoots with the Pansheri junta, but the recent loss of Herat governor Ismail Khan is a blow to Iranian interests. It is also competing for influence in the ex-Soviet republics of Central Asia. It has a good strategic equation going with Russia, and a reasonable degree of rappo with China. It also wields influence in Lebanon through its proxy Hizullah. Syria has become closer to Iran in strategic terms, because of the commom American threat.

I read some comments about regime change in this forum too, well the most clear-cut candidate for a regime change is the US. The ruling Neo-con junta is a threat to world peace. Period.
Regime change in Iran is inevitable, the mullahs have screwed-up on the economy and failed to deliver on the social and political fronts. But the point is, that no country has the right to impose a regime change in another country.

About the question of Iran acquring nuclear weapons: Every country has a right to determine its defence needs. But nuclear weapons by themselves do not bestow any strength per se; you need to have the political will to use them. Please consider the misconception by Pakistan regarding the nuclear deterrence vis-a-vis India. After detonating its nukes, Pak went for Kargil, but the nuke-deterrence did nt work. Why? Because it was predicated on the US-USSR deterrence model, which was anomalous in Pak-Indian context.
So Long!

Love to state that Iran is a progressive state in many ways , regardless of the regressive elements trying to control Iran. However some of their actions border on racism of a different kind - religious.

Also have to thank the Iranians who decided to expel the ancestors of the modern day Parsis of the subcontinent , they have certainly been worth more than their numbers would suggest.

…the issue is not who rules iran and whether they rule over iran from tehran or qom…

… the primary issue is nuclear proliferation…the US would like to do its best to curb it …all else is academic...

...wonder if the US has the will or the resolve to do it...judging by this and past adminstration`s whimpering over puny north korea...i don`t know...

Ralph:

What a silly question!!!

Israel, India, US, Great Britain = Hegemony

Islamic Nations, China = Power.

Regime Change in Iran is ineviteble. It is a matter of when and not if. The key however is that Regime Change should and will come from within. If the Iranians could get rid of the Shah and his SAVAK inspite of the support of the United States, no reason the Mullahs cannot get the same treatment.

There is also the aspect of nukes. Iran, unlike Pakistan, does not have a national identity based on religion. Iran is the successor nation of the Persian civilization and it has more than a millenia of history as a cogent and coherent country. Thus, whether the Islamic regime stays or goes is irrelevant to the issue of nukes as percieved, I suspect, by the Iranians themselves.

The Iranian desire to access nuclear technology as well as weaponization is due to its legitimate needs to defend itself against external aggression. The US specifically has nothing to lose with Iran gaining access to nuclear technology. Iran has no territorial conflict with the US and has never behaved irresponsibly unlike Iraq. Tthey have supported Hizbollah but that is on the same level as India supporting LTTE at one time and Pakistan`s support of Laskar etc.

The only country that has legitimate grounds for concern is Israel. If Israel does make a strategic attack on Iranian nuclear installations it should be prepared for retaliation. They therefore have to make their own strategic calculations.

As far Indian strategic calculations are concerned, Iran`s possesion of nukes has some positives and no negatives. The posession of Nukes by China and Pakistan basically eliminate the need for India to have any concerns of proliferation. On the positive side, multiple Islamic states possesing nuclear weapons eliminates the advantage Pakistan currently has as far as nuclear status is concerned. It also gives Iran additional muscle to influence developments in Afghanistan where its interests have coincided with India.

``as a matter of fact the girls never tire of telling me that i am ``the coolest abu in the whole wide world`` (and, by the way, all their paki friends agree even though their parents panic and start reciting the ayat-ul-qursi and laholaywalaquwat when they see me coming) ``

Why am I not surprised. LOL!!

American hegemony over the middle east keeps the oil flowing. Resource poor third world countries , like India, need the oil, to industrialize. A few crazed middle eastern mullahs , can destroy india`s economy. Look at this way, and one has to be thanful to Israel and the Yanks, for putting the fear of god into the mullahs.

malik99 - you said:
Imagin if Iraq was armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons as well as long range missiles that could hit Israel. Were that the case, Iraqis would not be having the ``social issues`` that they are having now. In fact, just yesterday there was a major ``social issue`` - 47 Iraqis died and 200 were injured from the sharpnels of the exploding issue.``

well its not as if Iraq didnt have social issues since before this invasion or the prior gulf war in 91.
lets be fair for just a second, saddam was a dicatator and he had taken his country to war with iran.....the rest is history. my point isnt that everything is great outside of iran, but im saying that if these arab/iran countries can get their countries working towards the right direction....before then exploiting their stability to take it one step further and become nuclear power - then the repurcssions would be less felt.
its like jumping from grade one to grade four, the point being the new kid wont last long.

just a thought to ponder on......i do understand where you are coming from, but its a double edged sword really.

I have a question for the author or other readers: I noticed that the title here is : Iran’s Bid for Regional Power, not Iran’s Bid for Regional Hegemony.

There is no mention of hegemony, except for one reference to American hegemony. Haven`t read all the interacts, but did any of you mention Iran`s (bid for) regional hegemony?

How do you guys distinguish between a bid for regional power from a bid for regional hegemony?

Would very much appreciate.

Jibbe:
The United Satan and its minion devils were dirt-poor when they set out to beg, rob, steal, loot and plunder the Indian, and Chinese and Islamic civilisation ,`` the magnificence & grandeur of the likes of which the world has yet to see``(speech by the CEO of Hewllet-Packard)

These bunch of thugs with their bible-rifle-title missionary-mafia has plagued the entire world and their demise, inshallah, is not far-off. The soviet union with all its roti-kapRRa-makan social-issues is no more. When Man tries to fancy himself as the provider and sustainer , he is the greatest mushrik of all. Be it as a dictator, a king, a democracy Demon, or as a Priest. The world does not need social-engineering or this socio-poli science crap. The greates good is done when the govenments are only bus condutcors & drivers but never the decision-makers for destinations.

Those who subscribe to the ``advanced`` ideas of infanticide( abortions), no-children, laundaybaaz-marriages, haraamkarees, and such very `modern` practices[ The Pharoahs, Nimrods, and Caligula era --progress list of the ist century not 7th) are helping to hasten the demise of these Demons.

Every effort must be made by all to develop arsenal for defence only. The rest of the work is being done by these `advanced` ones themselves.

hamidm - As for regime change, don`t be a freakin racist that only a white anglosaxon can deliver hapless Iranians from evil. If Iranians can all get together and overthrow the US installed ruthless king who set up the Savak secret service that would skin prisoners alive, then they can also get rid of their current rulers if/when they get sick of them.

and if you are oh so moved by the plight of poor iranian lolitas, are you willing to put your family`s life on line to free them? i doubt it. There probably won`t be a hamidm in the liberation army. The liberation army would be full of Johnny, and Tommy and Jimmy, and Jose and Rico from poor middle america. you are more suited for arm-chair liberation. And as long as you get your morning coffee with a touch of cinnamon and access to internet drop the load off your brain, life is A ok.

jibbe - you said ``If Iran wants to go nuclear, how about first solving the many social/economic issues which have bogged it down over the years. ``

Imagin if Iraq was armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons as well as long range missiles that could hit Israel. Were that the case, Iraqis would not be having the ``social issues`` that they are having now. In fact, just yesterday there was a major ``social issue`` - 47 Iraqis died and 200 were injured from the sharpnels of the exploding issue.

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Iran wants to go nuclear - and it should, it has the right too. However, I pity many of the Arab countries and Iran who think that the only way to gain respect and to progress in the world is to arm themselves and for the Palestinian issue to be solved.
What a load of bullshit (excuse my french).
If Iran wants to go nuclear, how about first solving the many social/economic issues which have bogged it down over the years. Instead, these mullahs who run the country will go nuclear, get more sanctions put in place on them, cripple the economy, the young and old will be frustrated/poor (iran cant even turn to its arab brethren who despise the former. The Arabs didnt even come to Saddams aid after he fought the war on Iran, instead, Kuwait helped cripple Iraq`s economy even further by raising production of oil and pumping oil illegally from Iraq`s southern borders)
The economy which is already stagnant will cripple, and the resulting chaos that it will bring the country (which is already outcast) - will be dire.

Now Urstruly and echoboom, the resident mullahs of chowk, will argue that every country has a right to go nuclear. Yes, every country does have a right, but can they not progress towards that goal while taking into account the world order, and the conditions of their own people which are at best poor. That is my point of view, ofcourse others are free to agree/disagree, but i often feel that its best not to jump the gun. Iran has more potential than any other arab country because its people are open minded and importantly more educated. With oil revenues being hurt by sanctions - i only wish this country could get back on its feet and play a role in the world today, because like i earlier mentioned, no country has more potential than Iran.

echoboom: you finally make a good point.
Muslims shoud learn to differentiate between Jews and Zionists. The former being the people of the book and the cousins of the Arabs, we believe in the same God and we share similiar prophets and traditions.
Zionists on the other hand....well why get into it, thats another long topic.
But its important to remember that all Jews are not zionists, and Khomeini`s main concern was the freedom of the Palestinians from the Israeli occupation.

This is a little off topic, but George Bush in his speech to the U.S. which was broadcast to Iraq two days before the war began said the following:

In free Iraq there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.

No more torture chambers and rape rooms - well Abu Ghuraib and other examples got rid of that illusion.
No more wars of aggression on your neighbors - at the same time the U.S. is threatning Iran and Syria??
No more poison factories - well, there were none to begin with.

Irony has been given a new meaning, thanks to George W.!!!

echo,

........... what about the bahais and other dhimmis ?...... are they too flourishing in iran ?........ did you see the full page ad in the ny times last sunday ?........ it seems your precious mullahs, having driven out the poor bahais, are now busy tearing down all vestiges of their past in the land of their prophet ........... soon there will be no sign of bahais in iran, just as there is no sign of the kafir and the jew in mecca .............

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malik mian,

........... as odd as it might sound to misogynist momins, i actually listen to the women in the household .............actually, since they outnumber me three to one, it is rather prudent

........ and yes, i have been reading all the books my poor daughters are assigned for summer reading by sadistic english teachers just to share in their suffering - it is one of the perils of fatherhood .............. and no, my daughter does not think i am ``yucky``, she was referring to the other desi uncles whose nose and ear hair is rather disgusting - and you know who they are! .............. as a matter of fact the girls never tire of telling me that i am ``the coolest abu in the whole wide world`` (and, by the way, all their paki friends agree even though their parents panic and start reciting the ayat-ul-qursi and laholaywalaquwat when they see me coming)

....... in any case, i still think it is time for a regime change in iran - the poor people of iran made a contract with the devil but that does not mean their future generations have to suffer ....... now, i am not advocating that the marines have to march into tehran ........... but it is our moral obligation to help lolita free herself from the clutches of humbert humbert ........... no?

Iran always wanted to dominate the region as a regional power, but the revolution of 1979 delayed the fait accompli. The only major differences between Iranian political aims under the Shah and under the present government, is that under the Shah, Iran would have been United States` client state. Under the present government, Iran would be ``self-employed`` and as an independent regional power, it would create a multipolarity of interests, which would threaten the economic hegemony of the United States over the oil producing regions of the Middle East.

Ciao

jews in Iran
IRAN: Life of Jews Living in Iran
Iran remains home to Jewish enclave.
By Barbara Demick

It is one of the many paradoxes of the Islamic Republic of Iran that this most virulent anti-Israeli country supports by far the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country.

Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

Khomeini protection
But Khomeini met with the Jewish community upon his return from exile in Paris and issued a ``fatwa`` decreeing that the Jews were to be protected. Similar edicts also protect Iran`s tiny Christian minority.

Just as it radically transformed Muslim society, the revolution changed the Jews. Families that had been secular in the 1970s started keeping kosher and strictly observing rules against driving on Shabbat. They stopped going to restaurants, cafes and cinemas - many such establishments were closed down - and the synagogue perforce became the focal point of their social lives.

Not everyone in the Jewish community favors liberalization of Iranian society. Arizel Levihim, 20, a prospective Hebrew teacher, said Judaism has fared better within the confines of Iran`s strictly religious society. ``I believe it is good for women to keep their head covered. I think it is good to restrict relations between boys and girls,`` Levihim said. ``I agree with the ideals of the Islamic republic. These are Jewish values too.``

hamidm # 3 - so you picked up a book recommended to you by your daughter (who by the way called you ``yucky``, as per one of your previous posts), throw in a bit of caustic remarks and a whole lot of generalizations, and lo! a freakin opinion is born. REGIME CHANGE IN IRAN!

hamid sahib - sounds like a regime change is in works in your own home.

regime change in tehran

......... after reading ``lolita in tehran`` my daughter said, ``now i understand why my friend`s parents left iran - it must have been really scary``........... so i read the book, and i was scared too - scared for the millions of young muslim women who are threatened by misogynist monsters in turbans and cloaks ......... a little girl in the book says, `` khomeni is still alive, the women are still wearing scarves`` ........... yes, he is alive, the spirit of the brooding monster lives on - people like echo and mullah urstruly, are lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce on innocent women and unsuspecting men even as their prophet hides in a cave somewhere ``along the border between pakistan and afghanistan``

.......... it is time for regime change in tehran ....... the people of iran have suffered enough and the world cannot afford to wait seventy years for another totalitarian state to fall under its own weight ...... the stakes in human suffering are too high ...........

Great subject indeed. Sure to flush out near-muslims, margarine muslims, Haraamkhore muslims , munaafique muslims and the westernised scum.
Put up the tik-tiky and release the Jallaads.

Let the fun begin.

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I have yet to read the article. Just this caught my eye, and so my reply.


[``Iran`s trump card is the geopolitical fact that it is a major oil producer bordering other major oil producers. A large-scale war undertaken by the United States would almost surely lead to a disruption of world oil supplies and the danger that Iran would use its missiles to attack Saudi or Gulf state oil complexes.``]

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That can be said as a strategic advantage but the real strtegth comes from character and standing-up to the bull. VietNam , Cuba, Venezuela, China, and even North Korea are good example. Anyone who expresses even the desire to hasten the demise of the United Satans of America & its droolig-dogs the world over is on the side of the oppressed of the world.

Urstruly is right.

Iran and any self-respecting and ghairatmand nation must arm itself with any or all devices irrespective of the ``humanistic`` consequences. Tippu Sultan`s words will always ring true. It is the baighairats from the cantonements, the colonies, and civil lines who have been english-educated to take orders from the masters.

It will be a fatal mistake for Iran, not to nuclearize itself.